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All Gens Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Mark II (RoA edition)

There is no need for a pre-status clause because simulator battling is not on cart battling to begin with, or have you ever seen a simulator say "no-full-restore clause", "all-badges-assumed clause", etc. Simulator battling has always assumed that the best possible things are to be used (max DV/IVs, max level, max EVs), so why not assume full health for mons? I think we can all agree that pre-burned specials wouldn't make the game we play better in any way. Changing a mechanic like for an over a decade old metagame would be like suddenly allowing potions because someone recently discovered they are usable in link battles on cart. It would make simulated play more similar to the actual games, it wouldn't make simulated play any better though.
 
Bedschibaer said:
There is no need for a pre-status clause because simulator battling is not on cart battling to begin with, or have you ever seen a simulator say "no-full-restore clause", "all-badges-assumed clause", etc. Simulator battling has always assumed that the best possible things are to be used (max DV/IVs, max level, max EVs), so why not assume full health for mons? I think we can all agree that pre-burned specials wouldn't make the game we play better in any way. Changing a mechanic like for an over a decade old metagame would be like suddenly allowing potions because someone recently discovered they are usable in link battles on cart. It would make simulated play more similar to the actual games, it wouldn't make simulated play any better though.
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Um, you do know that bag items and badges don't work in link battles, right?

And are you against implementing 255 misses as well? Or, y'know, any other cartridge mechanic you happen to dislike?
 
magic9mushroom said:
Um, you do know that bag items and badges don't work in link battles, right?

And are you against implementing 255 misses as well? Or, y'know, any other cartridge mechanic you happen to dislike?
Click to expand...
Considering the last time i've actually had a link battle is roughly 10 years ago - yeah i forgot that, w/e.
This isn't about if i like or dislike the mechanic though, I just don't see why full health wouldn't be assumed when things like levels, perfect DVs and full stat values are assumed. Lowering the stat experience in the first two gens isn't allowed on simulator, right? It is possible on cart though.
 
^ Not necessarily. At least in ADV/DP there's multiple scenarios where you want to get your speed IV's down (Wishpass Vaporeon, Gyro Ball Bronzong).

A simulator in its core should aim to simulate the exact environment that the cartridge games provide for player vs player. Hence why it allows any possible IV combination. If u devoted enough time you could get the perfect IVs, sure. At the same time it shouldn't allow any nature Draco Meteor Jirachi as only one nature can be legally obtained in cartridge.

If we are playing RBY OU with the flawed Critical Hit probabilities (4x times with respect to its fixed version in Stadium) because that's how it was in the cartridge, i don't see why the pre-status argument would be invalid. If it ends up leading to a broken metagame then clause it, as people did with Sleep and Freeze.
 
Astamatitos said:
If we are playing RBY OU with the flawed Critical Hit probabilities (4x times with respect to its fixed version in Stadium) because that's how it was in the cartridge)
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No, the crit probabilities in Stadium are the same as in cartridge. It is thought that those probabilities were intended to be 4x lower in cartridge because of the way the bug with Focus Energy works, but Stadium didn't "fix" the base probabilities (it did fix Focus Energy's actual effect, and as such Jolteon can reach a 100% crit rate with Focus Energy under Stadium mechanics).

Bedschibaer said:
Considering the last time i've actually had a link battle is roughly 10 years ago - yeah i forgot that, w/e.
This isn't about if i like or dislike the mechanic though, I just don't see why full health wouldn't be assumed when things like levels, perfect DVs and full stat values are assumed. Lowering the stat experience in the first two gens isn't allowed on simulator, right? It is possible on cart though.
Click to expand...

Lowering Stat Exp is allowed in PO (and to a greater extent than it is in-cart, which I've been trying to get fixed). It's not in Showdown largely because the Showdown teambuilder doesn't support RBY very well (it doesn't actually let you select full Stat Exp, and as such Showdown kludges it by overwriting whatever you put for Stat Exp with maximum values); it's not an intentional choice.

Perfect DVs aren't actually assumed, they're just "default" inasmuch as better stats are generally a good thing and therefore the best DV spread for most Pokemon is "all maxed". Same with levels; you're allowed to select lower levels, it's just generally a terrible idea (with exceptions; see FEAR and SABER, which have never been banned).
 
Yea good catch, i was typing the above post with Focus Energy (assembly code typo) in mind however i mixed it up with Critical Hits. Point remains that Focus Energy in RBY OU is played as per cartridge.
 
Joim Bedschibaer I can't find the section, so i'll leave this here. A bug from 3rd gen OU.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen3oubeta-1111


Navy V3 sent out DEADLY SPARK (Raikou)!

Skarmory used Spikes!
Spikes were scattered all around the feet of the opposing team!
The sandstorm is raging.

The opposing Raikou is buffeted by the sandstorm!
The opposing Raikou SPARK restored a little HP using its Leftovers!
Turn 25

Skarmory, come back!

Go! Heracross!
Heracross is hurt by the spikes!

Heracross fainted!

Go! Zapdos!

The opposing Raikou used Thunderbolt!
Zapdos lost 30.7% of its health!

As you can see. Heracross ended up dying to Spikes, but during the same turn he sacrificed Heracross, my opponent sent out Zapdos right after and was hit by a Thunderbolt i originally had used towards Heracross before he died from the Spikes.
 
Ive heard that volcarona 6-0's balanced sand with support, but is there really nothing the sand team can do to stop it?
 
It's all about the set Volcarona is running, it has different check/counter depending of the set he is running.

If there is no HP Ground, Heatran completely wall Volcarona.
If there is no HP Ice, Dragonite/Garchomp threaten Volcarona.
If there is no Fire Stabb move (rain variant) Skarmory might be able to wall it.
Defensive Tyranitar is able to take some hits.
You can hope to Revenge Kill it with some scarfmons (Landorus-Therian if it's not Timid Volcarona (which is rare), Terrakion,...).
You can try to prevent the set-up with T-Wave Lati@s, since Volca can hope to set-up on you after you Draco Meteor'd something... Unless he is running a Lum Berry.

But yeah, Volcarona is one of the most dangerous mon for a Balanced Sand, there is way, but it is always about the set Volcarona is running and that's why some poeple are complaining about Volcarona.
 
Don't forget Passho Berry, Giga Drain and bulky Roost variants (or even the Chesto Rest). Sub isn't an awful option either.
 
This has probably been asked a million times but why dont we play rby with tradebacks probably cause some things are too powerful but I am curious
 
Ranger Mike said:
This has probably been asked a million times but why dont we play rby with tradebacks probably cause some things are too powerful but I am curious
Click to expand...

We do play RBY with tradebacks. But as a separate meta from RBY without tradebacks. Much like ADV200 vs. ADV386. The difference is that RBY + Tradebacks never really caught on and as such didn't displace the non-tradebacks meta.
 
Hard to really tell you who's the actual first person who used it, as someone very probably used it back on NetBattle. I'd argue Dekzeh has been a responsible on bringing back to the Tour scene in SPL 4.
 
Why is RBY the gen 1 standard? Freeze Clause is a popular rule but it's only possible in Stadium. Are the other differences (substitute, focus energy) just too much?
 
Cartridge has always been the standard. Stadium is very different, mostly because of the 3v3 scenario that makes it unattractive. Same goes for GSC.
 
There isn't a best spread per say, because there are many kind of Pursuit Tyranitar. It'll come down to the 3 other moves usually.
Here are a few one I have seen/used:

EVs: 116 HP / 104 Atk / 32 Def / 104 Spd / 140 SAtk / 12 SDef
Naughty Nature (+Atk, -SDef)

This one has been made by Halloween and used by DracoMalfoy in a pretty famous team they made a while back. The full set is Flamethrower | HP Grass | Rock Slide | Pursuit. DracoMalfoy uses here a mix of everything because the Ttar has to check Snorlax in a pinch, outspeeds most other bulky lead Tyranitar, hits hard enough on the special side while still maintaining some bulk to check the like of Snorlax. Malfoy said about it: EVs of this one aren't meant to defend, and that allowed me to win many lead wars against other mixed Tyranitar.

EVs: 208 HP / 252 SAtk / 48 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

Here is one I use on a full special Tyranitar. The moveset is Fire Blast | HP Grass | Ice Beam | Pursuit. The full special Ttar are the easiest to EV: enough speed to reach a given benchmark, usually full SpAtk to deal as much damages as possible to Gengar (and maximizing your chances to KO Dugtrio with Ice Beam if you run it) and rest in bulk.

EVs: 136 HP / 28 Def / 252 SAtk / 92 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)

Once again a full Special Ttar, with a different speed benchmark and a little twist in the bulk to give more chances to survive Dugtrio's EQ. The set here runs Crunch over Ice Beam, and since Tyranitar has to pressure Snorlax as most as possible in that team, the Special Attack is maximized.

http://pastebin.com/cZX6zNVk

Finally, here are a lot of spreads for a mixed Pursuit Tyranitar running Roar. They all accomplish different things and everything's explained in the pastebin I wrote some years ago.

All in all, just run close to/max SpA on full Special Tyranitar, hit a certain benchmark in speed according to your preferences and then invest in bulk.
 
How come tornadus isnt OU?

There are plenty of pokemon who only live in rain, and have OU usage, and even then Bulk up torn is a really cool mon putside weather.
 
Kristoph said:
Why is RBY the gen 1 standard? Freeze Clause is a popular rule but it's only possible in Stadium. Are the other differences (substitute, focus energy) just too much?
Click to expand...

Stadium doesn't allow 6v6 IIRC, so faithful Stadium battles kinda suck.

Sleep Clause was devised before Stadium existed, as it is essential to make RBY playable (sleep was clearly balanced for PokeFlute, which you can't use in link battles).

Freeze Clause shouldn't be in use in cartridge-mechanic play, but everyone keeps whining about how "we've done it this way before so we'll continue doing it this way because staaaaaandard" and it stays around for some reason.
 
Yeah I agree that Sleep Clause differs from Freeze Clause in that it is necessary for the game to even be playable. Also it's technically possible to implement a form of Sleep Clause in cartridge play, whereas Freeze Clause is really just straight up impossible

I've seen 6v6 stadium wifi matches.
Is there some funny business going on with the game or something?
 
I don't think the Nintendo 64 even has wifi capability. But yeah apparently it can do 6v6s. IDK then.

Sleep wears off faster in Stadium, incidentally.
 
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