Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[TheTraininator]

I'm looking at the list and I'm curious about Mega-Medicham being in C+. Is it really that bad or outclassed by Mega-Gallade? Granted I have no experience with it in ORAS, I just remember it hitting so hard that it's hard for me to believe it went from A rank(I think it was?) to the same level of viability as Magneton and Infernape

Totally and utterly. Mega Gallade sits at a better speed tier, has better bulk, better coverage, is not reliant on the risky High Jump Kick, can set up with Swords Dance, and also posseses various interesting utility moves like Will-O-Wisp and Destiny Bond. The only advantage Medicham has is that it hits harder prior to setup, which allows it to outmuscle certain threats like physically defensive Unaware Clefable a bit better.

EDIT: Oh, and it has Fake Out. So there's that.

 

[Gary]

I'm looking at the list and I'm curious about Mega-Medicham being in C+. Is it really that bad or outclassed by Mega-Gallade? Granted I have no experience with it in ORAS, I just remember it hitting so hard that it's hard for me to believe it went from A rank(I think it was?) to the same level of viability as Magneton and Infernape

Mega Medicham is one of those sad cases of a Pokemon that is actually a really solid Pokemon, but it's just so outclassed by other things in the tier (Mega Gallade) that there's not much of a reason to use it. Yeah I mean sure if we want to get technical here, Mega Medicham is a perfectly viable Pokemon that would probably sit in the mid A rank if we didn't take being outclassed into account, but because Mega Gallade is a superior Pokemon in almost every circumstance, its viability heavily suffers because of it, and thus puts it in a very low rank even with Pokemon that aren't even good in OU to begin with.

I know a few people seem to disagree with this method of ranking, because it might convince newer players that something like Infernape is equally as good in the meta as Mega Medicham when in actuality Mega Medicham is comparable in usefulness to Zard-Y in the meta, but I personally agree that something can become just an unviable as a shitty Pokemon despite how good it is, just because of something else being present in the tier that nearly completely overshadows it. See Mega Pinsir during the Mega Mence era as well. It was still a great Pokemon, but it wasn't very viable considering that if you used it instead of Mega Mence, you were only crippling the success of your teams. If we ranked Pokemon just by how good they were by themselves, then we'd have stuff like Mega Latios in S rank and Thundurus-T in like B+ or even higher. Just wouldn't make much sense if we ranked Pokemon that way here.

 

[Celticpride]

I'm looking at the list and I'm curious about Mega-Medicham being in C+. Is it really that bad or outclassed by Mega-Gallade? Granted I have no experience with it in ORAS, I just remember it hitting so hard that it's hard for me to believe it went from A rank(I think it was?) to the same level of viability as Magneton and Infernape

Other than Mega Gallade outclassing it, the introduction of Mega Sableye killed it. Like, ran over it with a monster truck killed it. It makes HJK very 50/50-prone and way less spammable as well. Mega Slowbro really doesn't help either, but Sableye is the real problem. Gard, Char-Y and Hera can still beat the new stall Megas. Medi really can't. If Medi was just outclassed but still effective against stall it would be around B rank imo. But there's a hard counter to it on a great portion of stall teams now.

 

[Valmanway]

I'm looking at the list and I'm curious about Mega-Medicham being in C+. Is it really that bad or outclassed by Mega-Gallade? Granted I have no experience with it in ORAS, I just remember it hitting so hard that it's hard for me to believe it went from A rank(I think it was?) to the same level of viability as Magneton and Infernape

Mega Medicham is more outclassed by Mega Gallade than it is bad, but it's still kinda bad. Mega Medicham still has noticeably more power than Mega Gallade, a good priority/disruption move in Fake Out, and a slightly stronger STAB in High Jump Kick, so Mega Medicham still has reason to be used, but Mega Gallade's Attack is still very high, has 110 Speed for outrunning more things, and even has Swords Dance to pretty much destroy offensive and defensive teams with relative ease. But being outclassed isn't the only reason why Mega Medicham fell down, as there are many more Pokemon that give it trouble nowadays, not only due to the Speed creep, but also due to Mega Sableye and Mega Slowbro being hard counters, the former being almost staple-like to stall teams, the team archetype that Mega Medicham is meant to destroy. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised to see a nomination for it to go down, but that won't be by my hand, as I'm currently mixed on the idea.

*Edit

A triple Greninja-ing? Ouch.

 

[jbtc10]

Medicham isn't directly outclassed by Gallade because Medicham is a nuke, not a set-up sweeper. Medi 2HKO's any wall in the game that doesn't resist HJK and even some that don't resist Zen Headbutt (like Clefable). For example, Mandibuzz can come in as Gallade SD's, tank a +2 Close Combat and then OHKO with Foul Play. It sure as hell can't do that with Medicham, who simply 2HKO's with HJK. Other walls like Skarm and Hippo can't switch in and either Phaze/EQ or use Counter/Brave Bird like they can with Gallade. Medichams problem is that it has nothing to get past bulky Psychics like Mew and Cresselia (Gallade gets Knock Off) and it also can't do anything to Mega Sableye, which renders it pretty helpless against most stall teams which is where wall breakers are needed to put in work.

 

[AssaultVestLatias]

B- ---> C+

I honestly don't find Lucario relevant to the OU tier anymore, much less B- in OU viability. There is many sweepers that outclass Lucario in both of Lucario's types. It hardly has bulk to set up SD due to its mediocre defenses and does not have speed to even consider itself a late game sweeper even with Extreme Speed. The fact that it can also be burned is also a problem considering it does not U-Turn/Volt Switch. To be honest, I think it should be dropped lower due to the fact so many Fighting megas run around and the fact it can be walled by so many things, but I'll be safe and wait for an opinion.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Well, Lucario, I guess... Oh, fuck, I don't even know what this thing does. I guess my question is, "Why would I use this thing instead of *insert Fighting-type with more speed, bulk, and/or power here*?" It doesn't help that Mega Sableye screws it over. Even then, Lucario hardly has the bulk, or even the speed, to set up and sweep. Just about everything in B- is either fast enough (Weavile, Azelf, Mega Houndoom) or bulky enough (Conkeldurr, Empoleon, Cress) to be able to do their jobs effectively.

In XY, Lucario could at least threaten stall considerably, so that gave it something. Now, though, Mega Sableye is on basically every good stall team, which really hurts Lucario's viability. So I ask, what is Lucario even good for now? It's neither bulky enough nor fast enough, or even powerful enough before setting up, to considerably threaten offense, and can no longer threaten stall since Mega Sableye is the new face of stall. It just seems like there's so much shit you'd need to do just to secure a Lucario sweep, and I'd use Mega Absol as a Swords Dance sweeper before Lucario because at least that threatens Mega Sableye, threatens common offensive 'mons like Gengar and Lati@s before getting a boost, and can't be paralyzed by Prankster T-wave from Thundurus and Klefki. (I would personally argue for Mega Absol to move up, but not time to discuss that yet)

My verdict on Lucario: Drop to C+ - if not lower. B- is just too generous especially when you consider that just about everything else in the rank is far more effective at doing their jobs.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

Might seem like drawing a long bow, but IMO, Pangoro deserves a C+ ranking at the least. Whilst it's not the easiest Pokemon in the world to bring in, nothing currently running in OU likes to switch in against it, since just about anything that can switch in and threaten it gets turned into setup bait for other Pokemon thanks to Parting Shot pivoting. It is not a low risk Pokemon, which is why I would not suggest moving it into the B ranks, but it can be used for very high reward plays.

 

[Srn]

aight i'd hate to go off topic but I think this one shud be implemented ASAP

Thundy for A+
Idk i'm just using him for prankster t-wave if at all; mega venu isn't common enough to lure psychic lure sets and its speed tier isn't as impressive as it used to be. I just...don't like him that much :/ somebody pls explain this better lol

Anyways the main point of this: Mega lopunny for S

I'm sure people have messed with this bunny enough to realize that its matchup against HO is astonishing. With fake out to gaurantee your safe mega and your unresisted STAB coverage 2hko'ing pretty much everything HO has to offer bar scarf lando-t (which can't take an ice punch obv), it pretty much single-handedly brings the playstyle to its knees.
However, that's not all it can do. As painful as it sounds, you can forego fake out to use some seriously cool sets like Sub/encore/baton pass+PuP, healing wish, toxic, and heal bell, (hell you could run quick attack+fake out just to fuck talon hard) all of which almost any playstyle can benefit from. Not only do you have the offensive presence to fit into an offensive team, but you also can bring extremely rare and valuable support such as healing wish and heal bell without being entirely predictable, which is amazing. PuP+weird shit especially can break through stall teams once physical walls have been slightly weakened. And i don't mean 40% or some crap, i mean pretty slightly here:

Scenario

lets assume you're running encore+pup. You encore a ferrothorn into protect (B]) and you get off a free PuP against the skarm switch-in:
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 39-46 (11.6 - 13.7%)
from there you hjk
+1 252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 186-220 (55.6 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

so 70%-80% healthy skarm after rocks and its toast, and since they're all shed shell if you can force it to come in on rocks twice without roosting you've done your job; that's not too difficult with some smart double switching.
That's assuming skarm can even do anything to you outside of brave bird itself, so this matchup can get interesting

Your stab moves are fairly reliable (yeah ok hjk misses suck) and they have excellent base power, both over 100. your raw stats are pretty gud, 136 attack is solid with bp of ur moves and 135 speed ties mega man, which is insanely fast. 94/96 defenses aren't complete crap either, you can take a +2 LO sucker from bisharp or what not if you really needed to.
It doesn't require any significant support outside of what every team really needs, just some physical wallbreaker to soften shit up in general.
So lets look at the definition and repeat myself some more

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Mega lopunny can perform a variety of roles pretty effectively, ranging from complete HO fucker to PuP to some cool support sets, and they all share a decent amount of offensive presence and great speed.
Mega lopunny is vulnerable to birdspam (and hjk misses :[ ), and needs some support to break thru bulky crap the first try, but she can do so much so effectively against every playstyle its pretty harsh to keep it in A+

TL; DR mega lop has great stats, great STABs (and the best moves of their respective type), is very versatile, is incredibly fast, has naturally good matchup against offense, and with the right moves a good matchup against practically any other playstyle.

 

[Bulgrom]

Well, Lucario, I guess... Oh, fuck, I don't even know what this thing does. I guess my question is, "Why would I use this thing instead of *insert Fighting-type with more speed, bulk, and/or power here*?" It doesn't help that Mega Sableye screws it over. Even then, Lucario hardly has the bulk, or even the speed, to set up and sweep. Just about everything in B- is either fast enough (Weavile, Azelf, Mega Houndoom) or bulky enough (Conkeldurr, Empoleon, Cress) to be able to do their jobs effectively.

In XY, Lucario could at least threaten stall considerably, so that gave it something. Now, though, Mega Sableye is on basically every good stall team, which really hurts Lucario's viability. So I ask, what is Lucario even good for now? It's neither bulky enough nor fast enough, or even powerful enough before setting up, to considerably threaten offense, and can no longer threaten stall since Mega Sableye is the new face of stall. It just seems like there's so much shit you'd need to do just to secure a Lucario sweep, and I'd use Mega Absol as a Swords Dance sweeper before Lucario because at least that threatens Mega Sableye, threatens common offensive 'mons like Gengar and Lati@s before getting a boost, and can't be paralyzed by Prankster T-wave from Thundurus and Klefki. (I would personally argue for Mega Absol to move up, but not time to discuss that yet)

My verdict on Lucario: Drop to C+ - if not lower. B- is just too generous especially when you consider that just about everything else in the rank is far more effective at doing their jobs.

First of all, Lucario is not a wallbreaker or a stallbreaker, he is a cleaner with okayish power. +2 Extreme speeds does a shitton to a lot of mon commonly seen on offense such as thundy, and has a +2 priority, which means that it can't be revenged by talon, random mach punch, pinsir or the forementioned thundy (ie it actually destroys thundurus, so I don't know why you are mentioning it as a check). It's not that hard to set up either, thanks to its good defensive typing, and justified is a pretty good ability when knock-off is everywhere.

Oh and
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 255-302 (83.8 - 99.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (gave 125 defense to sableye).
That's not what I call a counter.

 

[alexwolf]

Togekiss for B

Togekiss got way better in ORAS, because it is an amazing wallbreaker against your typical stall team, plus it counters Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye, and Mega Sceptile, and is a great check to Mega Gallade and Mega Lopunny. Fairy-types are in big demand in this metagame, and Togekiss is an amazing and self sufficient wallbreaker with lots of defensive utility. It can run a fully physically defensive set to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Lopunny's Return even after SR, and by extension also counter Thunderbolt-less Latios, while supporting its team with Heal Bell or Thunder Wave, or go with max SpA near max Speed and two attacks, the second attack being either Aura Sphere or Dazzling Gleam, to get past certain checks and counters and outspeed Pokemon such as Bisharp, in order to be a more immediate threat. The biggest drawback of Togekiss that holds it from being A- / B+ is that it's SR weak and thus easy to pressure with double switches if SR is up, but with good anti hazards support it can really shine. Just pack some Electric-type and Mega Diancie checks (Hippowdon, Celebi, Excadrill) and the aforementioned anti hazard support and you are good to go, Togekiss doesn't need that much support and fits perfectly fine in B.

Empoleon should stay in B-

I have heard some people that want this to raise in B, but i disagree. Empoleon isn't even a great Greninja check anymore, now that it commonly carries Low Kick, and Empoleon in general is not a great answer to most things it checks, it just compresses lots of jobs in one teamslot, which is good to patch up some weaknesses with your last slot, but it means that Empoleon dies very fast and should be played very carefully. For example, Latios can carry Earthquake / Thunderbolt, Azumarill can OHKO / 2HKO with Superpower, depending on the set, Manaphy does 40% minimum with +3 Energy Ball while the best Empoleon can do back is phaze with Roar, and Mega Gyarados 2HKOes with unboosted Crunch after SR.

Infernape for C

This one is simple, but Infernape lost a lot of viability with the introduction of the new MEvos. Mega Altaria, Mega Latias, and Mega Mega Slowbro are hard counters, while Mega Sableye fucks up the lead and defensive set, meaning that Infernape lost viability in every single one if its roles.

Weavile to B

Will explain this later.


Other changes i agree with but have already been covered:

Klefki to B+
Mega Houndoom to B
Magneton to B-
Sableye to C / C-
Gothitelle to B
Doublade to C+

 

[Revelation]

Could a Lucario set of Nasty Plot, Aura Sphere, Flash Cannon and Vacuum Wave have any sort of viability? The only other special fighting-type in OU I can think of is Keldeo.

 

[Kurona]

Could a Lucario set of Nasty Plot, Aura Sphere, Flash Cannon and Vacuum Wave have any sort of viability? The only other special fighting-type in OU I can think of is Keldeo.

The problem with that is that Lucario's claim to fame in OU was Extremespeed and it's ability to make it very strong very fast with Swords Dance - Close Combat and whatever else it used were pretty much just filler. Vacuum Wave is priority, yes... but it's not strong priority. I suppose it's... some sort of niche as the only special priority?
Regardless, I'd save this for a Lucario discussion thread. As it is now, I've gotta agree with moving the steel jackal down.

 

[New Light]

Kyurem to C- or C
Many teams are completely unprepared for its SubRoost set. It hits pretty hard, can make 101 HP subs, has respectable defenses and can easily stall out 8 PP moves thanks to Pressure. It works great on hazard or status heavy teams.

 

[adamsoreos]

aight i'd hate to go off topic but I think this one shud be implemented ASAP

Thundy for A+
Idk i'm just using him for prankster t-wave if at all; mega venu isn't common enough to lure psychic lure sets and its speed tier isn't as impressive as it used to be. I just...don't like him that much :/ somebody pls explain this better lol

Anyways the main point of this: Mega lopunny for S

I'm sure people have messed with this bunny enough to realize that its matchup against HO is astonishing. With fake out to gaurantee your safe mega and your unresisted STAB coverage 2hko'ing pretty much everything HO has to offer bar scarf lando-t (which can't take an ice punch obv), it pretty much single-handedly brings the playstyle to its knees.
However, that's not all it can do. As painful as it sounds, you can forego fake out to use some seriously cool sets like Sub/encore/baton pass+PuP, healing wish, toxic, and heal bell, (hell you could run quick attack+fake out just to fuck talon hard) all of which almost any playstyle can benefit from. Not only do you have the offensive presence to fit into an offensive team, but you also can bring extremely rare and valuable support such as healing wish and heal bell without being entirely predictable, which is amazing. PuP+weird shit especially can break through stall teams once physical walls have been slightly weakened. And i don't mean 40% or some crap, i mean pretty slightly here:

Scenario

lets assume you're running encore+pup. You encore a ferrothorn into protect (B]) and you get off a free PuP against the skarm switch-in:
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 39-46 (11.6 - 13.7%)
from there you hjk
+1 252 Atk Mega Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 186-220 (55.6 - 65.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

so 70%-80% healthy skarm after rocks and its toast, and since they're all shed shell if you can force it to come in on rocks twice without roosting you've done your job; that's not too difficult with some smart double switching.
That's assuming skarm can even do anything to you outside of brave bird itself, so this matchup can get interesting

Your stab moves are fairly reliable (yeah ok hjk misses suck) and they have excellent base power, both over 100. your raw stats are pretty gud, 136 attack is solid with bp of ur moves and 135 speed ties mega man, which is insanely fast. 94/96 defenses aren't complete crap either, you can take a +2 LO sucker from bisharp or what not if you really needed to.
It doesn't require any significant support outside of what every team really needs, just some physical wallbreaker to soften shit up in general.
So lets look at the definition and repeat myself some more

S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

Mega lopunny can perform a variety of roles pretty effectively, ranging from complete HO fucker to PuP to some cool support sets, and they all share a decent amount of offensive presence and great speed.
Mega lopunny is vulnerable to birdspam (and hjk misses :[ ), and needs some support to break thru bulky crap the first try, but she can do so much so effectively against every playstyle its pretty harsh to keep it in A+

TL; DR mega lop has great stats, great STABs (and the best moves of their respective type), is very versatile, is incredibly fast, has naturally good matchup against offense, and with the right moves a good matchup against practically any other playstyle.

The thing about Lopunny though is that it really is not THAT great.
Sure, the thing is wickedly fast, allowing to outspeed top tier threats, but its lack of raw power (Base 135 is strong with HJK, but not with other moves) or an effective boosting move really kind of screws it over.
PuP is nice, but it requires a predicted switch, making it semi-unreliable.
High Jump Miss and Return/Frustration are nice to spam since you have Scrappy, but then you're forced to run other moves to provide coverage, boosting, or utility (Ice Punch, PuP, Encore, Fake Out, Healing Wish)
Although these options may seem nice, it turns Mega-Punny into a liability if you have to face stall vs hyper offense.

Want a nice boost w/ PuP? Good luck against Hyper Offense.
Want to spam your stabs and coverage? Stall laughs in your face.

Although I can't think of a single COUNTER off the top of my head, BESIDES MEGA-SABLEYE (WINK WINK), plenty of checks exist such as Lando-T, Slowbro, Cresselia, Celebi, Mega-Metagross, bulky Mega-Altaria, and etc.
Plus priority kind of shits on it due to subpar defenses.

HOWEVER, I am not saying that Lopunny is a bad pokemon.
It can outspeed most pokemon in the OU tier (Even Mega-Dos after a D-Dance) and works as a great cleaner, it just needs proper support.

If we look at the definition for A:
Reserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the OU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

Lopunny requires significant less support then most other mons, but it still needs just that right amount of coverage or team effort to really allow it to shine.

tl;dr Lopunny is strong and fast, but it needs support to really allow it to exceed in the OU metagame. Mega-Lopunny should stay in A+, not rise to S (Plus it's not blue/orange)

 

[Talpr0ne]

Want a nice boost w/ PuP? Good luck against Hyper Offense.


Although I can't think of a single COUNTER off the top of my head, BESIDES MEGA-SABLEYE (WINK WINK)

LOL

Sorry but these two statements are flat out wrong.
Mega Lopunny doesn't need anything more than its two STABs to work against offense. Its so called "coverage"(which is just Ice Punch really), hits weaker than a neutral Return unless the target is quad weak to Ice(which, on offensive teams, are just Landorus forms, Garchomp and the rare Dragonite. None of them takes Return well, let alone High Jump Kick in the case of Chomp). Fake Out is really nice vs offense but not exactly necessary; Pokémon slower than 105 speed can still be found on offensive teams despite the speed creep, allowing Lopunny to evolve rather safely even against HO. And of course when they say that an S rank Pokémon needs to fare well against multiple playstyles they obviously refer to the combination of multiple sets(just look at Landorus-T, the Choice Scarf set struggles vs stall but the Double Dance set performs quite well against those teams instead, and viceversa vs offense); so it really doesn't matter if Fake out Lopunny is bad vs stall if there is another set of it(Sub+PuP) that performs very well against it.

It's quite obvious why the second statement is wrong: how in the world can Mega Sableye be considered a counter to Mega lopunny when it's weak to its strongest STAB?

 

[Of Moose & Men]

As an avid Mega Lopunny player, probably used it more than anyone seeing as it's the only mega I've used since ORAS' release. . . I can't say I totally agree with Mega Lopunny being S. Yes, it can play an immense amount of roles, something nothing else can do, a huge feat mind you. However, I can't sit here and honestly say it's on the same level as Greninja, Megagross, Latios, Thundy, and even more so Lant. The reason is, it requires a bit of support if it isn't the support mon itself which can limit its offensive roles, something all of these really don't have problems with, and if they do, it's minimal, and they have insane power to outweigh it.

It's power isn't the greatest, I'll admit, and it needs PuP if it ever plans on 2HKO'ing the OU tier (which limits its support to an extent). Which is difficult to do anyways with such a balanced/bulky offense driven meta game right now (from what I've seen). There are just so many things that it has trouble with face to face, Physically oriented fairies, Priority users (outside of Sucker Punch), Scarfed 'mons, Stupid Lant, physical walls, etc. It does have an amazing support movepool, one of the best in OU I must admit, so I can see it going to S if it goes for being an offensive support 'mon.
However, the problem I'm seeing with that is, we'll end up with an inflated S rank if we plan on pushing Pokemon capable of pulling this off, as it would then mean we'd push mAlt, ZardX, Gard, mSableye, Heatran, and Talonflame as well. All of which, arguably, have some equally awesome sets they can run.
I won't say I'm fully against it going to S, but I just don't see it as S worthy. It's a great Pokemon my absolute favorite in fact, but I believe A+ is good as of now.

 

[Alfalfa]

For example, Mandibuzz can come in as Gallade SD's, tank a +2 Close Combat and then OHKO with Foul Play.

Actually, this only applies if Stealth Rock is not on the field:

+2 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Mandibuzz: 358-423 (84.6 - 100%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Even maximum defensive investment cannot avoid the OHKO after SR:

+2 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 327-385 (77.3 - 91%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

EDIT: So max defense can live on a low damage roll after Leftovers recovery (100-25+6 = 81, which is greater than 77.3), but max defense Mandibuzz is uncommon anyways, so I still get my point across.

 

[MilkyWay]

Although I can't think of a single COUNTER off the top of my head, BESIDES MEGA-SABLEYE (WINK WINK), plenty of checks exist such as Lando-T, Slowbro, Cresselia, Celebi, Mega-Metagross, bulky Mega-Altaria, and etc.
Plus priority kind of shits on it due to subpar defenses.

It's quite obvious why the second statement is wrong: how in the world can Mega Sableye be considered a counter to Mega lopunny when it's weak to its strongest STAB?

WINK WINK

 

[adamsoreos]

WINK WINK

Hollyyyy crap.
My bad. Forgot Scrappy as soon as I mentioned it.
That definitely deserves a neck.

LOL

Sorry but these two statements are flat out wrong.
Mega Lopunny doesn't need anything more than its two STABs to work against offense. Its so called "coverage"(which is just Ice Punch really), hits weaker than a neutral Return unless the target is quad weak to Ice(which, on offensive teams, are just Landorus forms, Garchomp and the rare Dragonite. None of them takes Return well, let alone High Jump Kick in the case of Chomp). Fake Out is really nice vs offense but not exactly necessary; Pokémon slower than 105 speed can still be found on offensive teams despite the speed creep, allowing Lopunny to evolve rather safely even against HO. And of course when they say that an S rank Pokémon needs to fare well against multiple playstyles they obviously refer to the combination of multiple sets(just look at Landorus-T, the Choice Scarf set struggles vs stall but the Double Dance set performs quite well against those teams instead, and viceversa vs offense); so it really doesn't matter if Fake out Lopunny is bad vs stall if there is another set of it(Sub+PuP) that performs very well against it.

It's quite obvious why the second statement is wrong: how in the world can Mega Sableye be considered a counter to Mega lopunny when it's weak to its strongest STAB?

Refer to my previous post of me deserving a neck for that second statement.
But also refer to MuhFugginMoose's post about Mega-Lopunny as well.
I'm not as well spoken as he is on the subject, but it was the essence of what I was trying to say.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

First of all, Lucario is not a wallbreaker or a stallbreaker, he is a cleaner with okayish power. +2 Extreme speeds does a shitton to a lot of mon commonly seen on offense such as thundy, and has a +2 priority, which means that it can't be revenged by talon, random mach punch, pinsir or the forementioned thundy (ie it actually destroys thundurus, so I don't know why you are mentioning it as a check). It's not that hard to set up either, thanks to its good defensive typing, and justified is a pretty good ability when knock-off is everywhere.

Oh and
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 255-302 (83.8 - 99.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (gave 125 defense to sableye).
That's not what I call a counter.

Lucario's defensive typing is undermined by its shitty bulk, and that's not a new problem - This problem has plagued Lucario since Generation IV. It's only more pronounced now thanks to all the power creep we've had since then. It doesn't help that Generation VI made its typing worse because now it only single-resists Dark and no longer resists Ghost.

+2 Extreme Speed would do a shit-ton to offense - if it could get that +2. Tell me what moron is going to let Lucario set up so easily when stopping it from setting up is so damn easy thanks to its poor bulk? -2 Lati@s, maybe. That's about it. Even before now, people keeping Heatrans and Tyranitars in on Lucario in the name of preventing it from setting up was a common sight, and it doesn't help that now there's even more shit on offense that stops Lucario from sweeping, like this great thing called Mega Metagross. Choice Scarf Landorus-T already put a full stop to even a boosted Lucario, so it doesn't help that now there's a) more crap to stop Lucario, namely Mega Metagross and Mega Diancie (the latter only if Lucario lacks Bullet Punch, which is an extremely rare sight anyway so it's still fair to call it a check) and b) Choice Scarf Lando-T has only gotten more common. Even if Lucario gets that +2 (which only gets harder and harder thanks to all the power creep,) its sweeping job is harder than it used to be, and with all of these checks in mind (and with it being harder to set up now that the 110+ speed tier is much more densely populated,) I can't see Lucario being consistent enough to reside in B-.

Oh and
Before Sableye Mega Evolves (and even on the turn it Mega Evolves) Will-O-Wisp still gets priority from Prankster, so it can burn Lucario before it can even attack. Not what I'd call a counter, but it is a check. If I were using a stall team and keeping Sableye in regular form for a while meant stopping Lucario from sweeping, I'd do that. You seem to be assuming Sableye will Mega Evolve ASAP but forget that it's probably one of the few Mega Evos that can get away with not immediately Mega Evolving.

Also, I don't know why you brought up Knock Off as a common move that Lucario can get the Justified boost from, because here's what will happen:

-Lucario switches in on Knock Off, gets Justified boost, but loses Life Orb
-Player goes to Lucario check (see: Scarf Landorus-T, hell even bulky Landorus-T if Lucario lacks Ice Punch)
-Lucario switches out, now it has no Justified boost and no Life Orb - Lucario neutered

 

[Consignia]

I would love to see some replays of Lucario in action, I feel that when discussing a pokemon so uncommon they can be extremely helpful. I don't think I've seen Lucario accomplish anything in OU outside of the realm of theorymon since its megastone ban and I'm sure I'm not alone on this, its usage has been practically non-existent for months (while usage is obviously not equal to viability, the point is that many people- even active ladder players- will be able to play consistently and still never see a lucario). Lucario has been brought up in the viability rankings a few times and each time it was quite evident that the discussion was being driven by theorymon, with very few people having practical, high-level experience with it outside of the damage calculator.

 

[Celticpride]

I don't have replays of Lucario (on mobile atm), but I have used it fairly extensively in ORAS. I would say it is in C+ right now, but there are some pros for it staying in B-. It has a MASSIVE case of 4MSS. You can run Crunch/Iron Tail and beat stall decently, but you lose utility against offense. You can run Ice Punch and succeed against offense, and weaken Landorus-T and Gliscor, but you really can't break stall. There's two reasons it would have a case for B-. Extremespeed actually works better in practice than it does on paper, and Luke can usually find a window late game to get to +2 (80% of the time it's after something dies and it has a window to revenge). With ESpeed it doesn't have to worry about Talonflame, Thundy, Greninja and all the other fast stuff later in the game either, especially with chip damge/hazards. The second reason is what I believe Lucario's best role in OU is: as a complementary sweeper. CC / Ice Punch / ESpeed / SD works great for breaking down and weakening common checks to Mega Gyarados, Char-X, Mega Altaria, Mega Pinsir and the like. It can bash Lando-T down with Ice Punchs, and force out and weaken Skarm and Ferrothorn. Not many things like switching in on STAB CC multiple times. Now with all that said, it's not as good as most of B- but better than most of C+. Ultimately C+ is probably the best place for it, but it also depends on what rises up in the next update because a lot of B- looks to be on the rise.

 

[Lil YoshiXD]

I would love to see some replays of Lucario in action, I feel that when discussing a pokemon so uncommon they can be extremely helpful. I don't think I've seen Lucario accomplish anything in OU outside of the realm of theorymon since its megastone ban and I'm sure I'm not alone on this, its usage has been practically non-existent for months (while usage is obviously not equal to viability, the point is that many people- even active ladder players- will be able to play consistently and still never see a lucario). Lucario has been brought up in the viability rankings a few times and each time it was quite evident that the discussion was being driven by theorymon, with very few people having practical, high-level experience with it outside of the damage calculator.

Not the best demonstrations but here is a demonstration at work:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-195368040

I find its bulk does let it down tho (its 2hko'd by bisharp), but give it screens or memento, even sub pass and there is not much that wants to switch into it at +2

bunch of calcs:
Highly relevant SD calcs:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Landorus-T: 265-312 (69.3 - 81.6%)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 182-214 (56.8 - 66.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 291-343 (97.9 - 115.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 251-296 (95.8 - 112.9%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 361-429 (111.7 - 132.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 231-273 (64.7 - 76.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 242-285 (74.9 - 88.2%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 307-361 (107.3 - 126.2%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 367-432 (93.1 - 109.6%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 261-308 (71.7 - 84.6%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 244 HP / 28+ Def Gliscor: 304-359 (86.3 - 101.9%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 224-264 (82.6 - 97.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 234-276 (86 - 101.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def MegaSableye: 255-302 (83.8 - 99.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 279-330 (98.9 - 117%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 242-285 (80.1 - 94.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 282-333 (84.4 - 99.7%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 299-354 (75.8 - 89.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Gourgeist-Small: 364-429 (115.9 - 136.6%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 278-328 (74.3 - 87.7%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 442-523 (109.4 - 129.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 415-489 (102.7 - 121%)

 

[AssaultVestLatias]

Not the best demonstrations but here is a demonstration at work:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-195368040

I find its bulk does let it down tho (its 2hko'd by bisharp), but give it screens or memento, even sub pass and there is not much that wants to switch into it at +2

bunch of calcs:
Highly relevant SD calcs:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Landorus-T: 265-312 (69.3 - 81.6%)
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 182-214 (56.8 - 66.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 291-343 (97.9 - 115.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 251-296 (95.8 - 112.9%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 361-429 (111.7 - 132.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 231-273 (64.7 - 76.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 242-285 (74.9 - 88.2%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 307-361 (107.3 - 126.2%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 367-432 (93.1 - 109.6%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 261-308 (71.7 - 84.6%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 244 HP / 28+ Def Gliscor: 304-359 (86.3 - 101.9%)
252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 224-264 (82.6 - 97.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 234-276 (86 - 101.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def MegaSableye: 255-302 (83.8 - 99.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 279-330 (98.9 - 117%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Extreme Speed vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Latias: 242-285 (80.1 - 94.3%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 282-333 (84.4 - 99.7%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 299-354 (75.8 - 89.8%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 32 Def Gourgeist-Small: 364-429 (115.9 - 136.6%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 278-328 (74.3 - 87.7%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 442-523 (109.4 - 129.4%)
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Iron Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 415-489 (102.7 - 121%)

Of course, like you said, was not the best replay. That player was just bad for letting you set up like that (not mention that it was a Magic Guard, Cosmic Power Clefable). Since this is only one replay, we cannot be certain how easy it is set up with a Lucario. This ladder match was around 1100's, so probably me and some other included can assume that it is not as easy to set up higher up in the ladder.