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DP Research Thread #3 ("Newer")
- Thread starter obi
- Start date
Couple things about Sketching Lunar Dance and Transform I'd like to share, in case nobody else knows. Yes, it is possible to sketch the moves, no sleep required.
Lunar Dance; Smeargle and cresselia must be your only party members. Get into a double battle. Have Cresselia use Lunar Dance; it will fail. Then have Smeargle Sketch it.
Transform; Smeargle must know Fly/Dig/Bounce/Dive/Shadow Force. Get into a double battle, sending out Smeargle and Ditto. Smeargle must be faster. Have Ditto use Transform on Smeargle, and have Smeargle use Fly/Dig/Bounce/Dive/Shadow Force on an opponent. Transform will fail, as the target is in the air/underwater/underground/vanished. Next turn, have Smeargle use Sketch on Ditto. Sketch will successfully copy Transform.
EDIT; Something I've been wondering. YOu know how Shadow Force ignores Protect and Detect? What about Endure? Can it KO a Pokemon that has used Endure, as it's very similar to (and runs off the same counter as) Protect and Detect?
Lunar Dance; Smeargle and cresselia must be your only party members. Get into a double battle. Have Cresselia use Lunar Dance; it will fail. Then have Smeargle Sketch it.
Transform; Smeargle must know Fly/Dig/Bounce/Dive/Shadow Force. Get into a double battle, sending out Smeargle and Ditto. Smeargle must be faster. Have Ditto use Transform on Smeargle, and have Smeargle use Fly/Dig/Bounce/Dive/Shadow Force on an opponent. Transform will fail, as the target is in the air/underwater/underground/vanished. Next turn, have Smeargle use Sketch on Ditto. Sketch will successfully copy Transform.
EDIT; Something I've been wondering. YOu know how Shadow Force ignores Protect and Detect? What about Endure? Can it KO a Pokemon that has used Endure, as it's very similar to (and runs off the same counter as) Protect and Detect?
Alternatively you can use Taunt first the turn they are supposed to use Transform\Lunar Dance; the move will fail but it can still be Sketched.
The Lansat Berry description is wrong. It's +2 crit rate in DP since it's the exact same thing as using Focus Energy.
I put down two layers of Toxic Spikes.
CPU sends out Tentacruel.
Message appears stating Toxic Spikes were absorbed.
Double layered Toxic Spikes still get absorbed.
CPU sends out Tentacruel.
Message appears stating Toxic Spikes were absorbed.
Double layered Toxic Spikes still get absorbed.
Does Rock Head block the crash and miss damage from Jump Kick / Hi Jump Kick (wondering because of Reckless)?
Does Reckless boost the damage from Struggle?
Does Quick Feet work the turn Freeze and Sleep end? Does Quick Feet boost your Speed under Freeze or Confusion?
With the new switching mechanics, I'm assuming this has changed, but we should still check. If a Pokemon dies to end-of-turn damage, and then sends out a Truant Pokemon, does it still loaf turn 1 instead of attack turn 1?
Can Counter, Mirror Coat, Metal Burst, Sheer Cold, Fissure, or any other non-regular damage move hit through Wonder Guard if the type would render it super-effective? I know Night Shade and presumably Dragon Rage do.
I posted in the abilities thread that there was some evidence that No Guard only applies to damaging moves like Dynamicpunch, but not stuff like Hypnosis. I cannot find where I got this information from, so it should probably be tested.
Does Reckless boost the damage from Struggle?
Does Quick Feet work the turn Freeze and Sleep end? Does Quick Feet boost your Speed under Freeze or Confusion?
With the new switching mechanics, I'm assuming this has changed, but we should still check. If a Pokemon dies to end-of-turn damage, and then sends out a Truant Pokemon, does it still loaf turn 1 instead of attack turn 1?
Can Counter, Mirror Coat, Metal Burst, Sheer Cold, Fissure, or any other non-regular damage move hit through Wonder Guard if the type would render it super-effective? I know Night Shade and presumably Dragon Rage do.
I posted in the abilities thread that there was some evidence that No Guard only applies to damaging moves like Dynamicpunch, but not stuff like Hypnosis. I cannot find where I got this information from, so it should probably be tested.
With the new switching mechanics, I'm assuming this has changed, but we should still check. If a Pokemon dies to end-of-turn damage, and then sends out a Truant Pokemon, does it still loaf turn 1 instead of attack turn 1?
Starts with Hippowdon.
Switches to Shedinja.
Shedinja dies to Sandstorm.
Sends out Slaking.
Slaking uses Slack Off.
Seems to be able to attack immedately.
Edit: No Guard affects Toxic. Probably does effect everything.
Umbreon used Double Team 6 times.
No Guard Machamp uses Toxic.
10/10 hit
Edit 2: Sing is effected as well.
No Guard Machamp uses 6 Double Team.
Blissey uses Sing.
10/10 hit
Edit 3: If Machamp uses Protect, Blissey's Sing sometimes still goes through. I'm guessing this only works for attacks that are the same type as the Pokemon using it similar to how No Guard Machamp's Fighting attacks can sometimes bypass Protect.
Starts with Hippowdon.
Switches to Shedinja.
Shedinja dies to Sandstorm.
Sends out Slaking.
Slaking uses Slack Off.
Seems to be able to attack immedately.
Edit: No Guard affects Toxic. Probably does effect everything.
Umbreon used Double Team 6 times.
No Guard Machamp uses Toxic.
10/10 hit
Edit 2: Sing is effected as well.
No Guard Machamp uses 6 Double Team.
Blissey uses Sing.
10/10 hit
Edit 3: If Machamp uses Protect, Blissey's Sing sometimes still goes through. I'm guessing this only works for attacks that are the same type as the Pokemon using it similar to how No Guard Machamp's Fighting attacks can sometimes bypass Protect.
use this topic for this kind of questions
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27586
anyway, the answer is defense only
NO GUARD vs PROTECT
2vs2 battle, 2 machops, one with no guard, one with guts, both with protect, frustration, revenge and vital throw
frustration 0/10 got through protect #1
revenge 0/20 got through protect #1
vital throw 0/10 got through protect #1
who said you can get through protect with the help of no guard? this test shows it´s impossible (unless you use protect repeatedly when it fails)
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27586
anyway, the answer is defense only
NO GUARD vs PROTECT
2vs2 battle, 2 machops, one with no guard, one with guts, both with protect, frustration, revenge and vital throw
frustration 0/10 got through protect #1
revenge 0/20 got through protect #1
vital throw 0/10 got through protect #1
who said you can get through protect with the help of no guard? this test shows it´s impossible (unless you use protect repeatedly when it fails)
Actually, that's the first thing I tried.
SMEARGLE used Taunt!
CRESSELIA fell for the Taunt!
CRESSELIA can't use Lunar Dance after the Taunt!
SMEARGLE used Sketch! (target was cresselia)
But it failed!
And putting it to sleep and selecting Lunar Dance didn't work either.
CRESSELIA used Slash!
The foe's PACHIRISU fainted!
PARASECT used Spore!
CRESSELIA fell asleep!
NEXT TURN;
PARASECT, come back!
Go! SMEARGLE!
CRESSELIA is fast asleep! (selected Lunar Dance)
SMEARGLE used Sketch!
SMEARGLE learned Slash!
Putting the target to sleep and using Sketch only results in Smeargle sketching the last move the target used before it went to sleep.
If the target's move failed due to Taunt, it won't be sketched. The message that comes up MUST be;
But it failed!
Lunar Dance does fail if you have no other Pokemon waiting. Transform fails if the target is in the air, underwater, underground, or has vanished. Only in those instances can those moves be sketched.
But wait, how does this work? I mean, let's assume it goes like this:
Smeargle uses Fly
Ditto uses Transform (fails)
Smeargle comes down and hurts an opponent
Ditto uses Transform (won't it just succeed here?)
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying...
Double battle; Smeargle + Aerodactyl vs Ditto + Magikarp
Aerodactyl used Fly!
Aerodactyl flew up high!
Ditto used Transform! (Targeting Aerodactyl)
But it failed!
Smeargle used Sketch!
Smeargle learned Transform!
Magikarp used Tackle! (Smeargle 98%)
Well, what you said would work, but it's not at all what Missingno. Master said.
who said you can get through protect with the help of no guard? this test shows it´s impossible (unless you use protect repeatedly when it fails)
I've personally seen it. I couldn't get it to work in PBR or the Japanese version, though. It only seemed to work with Fighting attacks from Machamp so it was thought that STAB was required. Perhaps Vital Throw and Revenge's priorty mod is messing with it. I know for certain No Guard Machamp's Cross Chop and Dynamic Punch can sometimes break through Protect. Blissey's Sing as well if No Guard Machamp uses Protect.
I've personally seen it. I couldn't get it to work in PBR or the Japanese version, though. It only seemed to work with Fighting attacks from Machamp so it was thought that STAB was required. Perhaps Vital Throw and Revenge's priorty mod is messing with it. I know for certain No Guard Machamp's Cross Chop and Dynamic Punch can sometimes break through Protect. Blissey's Sing as well if No Guard Machamp uses Protect.
Yeah, on the second turn when Smeargle's 2-turn move hits, when you have to select an action for Ditto, use an item of some sort instead, taking up Ditto's half of the turn, like say, a Potion or something. That way, Ditto doesn't attack on that turn, and Smeargle will be able to Sketch Transform the following turn.
I swear it was posted on the first research thread that double toxic spikes wouldn't be absorbed. >_> Oh well, more faulty data I suppose.
Don't hold me to this TRE, but I'm 99% certain Peterko only has a Japanese version. Otherwise it's really weird luck or something, since STAB attacks only seem to break no guard protect 1/4 of the time.
Indeed, just tested it. a Flying-type Smeargle that loses its flying type due to Roost takes neutral damage from fighting attacks.
Also, not sure if this was known already, but it was easy to test considering I was already testing the above... losing "Color Change" (ie via Skill Swap or w/e) does NOT revert your type to default. After I took Color Change back from Smeargle, Aerial Ace was still super effective.
Enemy's team.
Your side: Smeargle
Their side: Magikarp
Smeargle uses Spikes!
Magikarp uses Splash!
There are now Spikes on Magikarp's side.
Smeargle uses Fog Clear!
Magikarp's evasion falls!
Magikarp uses Splash!
The Spikes under Magikarp are gone.
Your side: Smeargle
Their side: Magikarp
Smeargle uses Spikes!
Magikarp uses Splash!
There are now Spikes on Magikarp's side.
Smeargle uses Fog Clear!
Magikarp's evasion falls!
Magikarp uses Splash!
The Spikes under Magikarp are gone.
what I meant with defog is that you can target YOUR PARTNER in 2vs2, it lowers his evasion, also blows away light screen (just tested this) on YOUR SIDE of the field...so I assume the spikes defog effect remains as well, that´s why the description I proposed is more suited
I think I know how no guard+protect works now, it has nothing to do with priority or turn order...and not only STAB moves come through
NO GUARD + PROTECT
machoke lv.51 partners in 2vs2, one has no guard
dynamicpunch: 6/10 hit through protect
submission: 4/20 hit through protect
fire blast: 3/16 hit through protect
% of attack hitting through protect/detect when no guard is in play (X)
X = 100 - move accuracy
of course, more tests need to be done but at least we have something to work with:
1. 100% accurate moves didn´t get through
2. STAB moves are not the only moves that can get through
3. higher % of dynamicpunch (50 acc.) getting through than submission (80 acc.) and fire blast (85 acc.)
I think I know how no guard+protect works now, it has nothing to do with priority or turn order...and not only STAB moves come through
NO GUARD + PROTECT
machoke lv.51 partners in 2vs2, one has no guard
dynamicpunch: 6/10 hit through protect
submission: 4/20 hit through protect
fire blast: 3/16 hit through protect
% of attack hitting through protect/detect when no guard is in play (X)
X = 100 - move accuracy
of course, more tests need to be done but at least we have something to work with:
1. 100% accurate moves didn´t get through
2. STAB moves are not the only moves that can get through
3. higher % of dynamicpunch (50 acc.) getting through than submission (80 acc.) and fire blast (85 acc.)