DP Research Thread #3 ("Newer")

X-Act

np: Biffy Clyro - Shock Shock
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This is a cool test, and yeah, it seems like that's the way No Guard could work. Accuracy becomes 100 - normal accuracy if foe uses Protect.
 

Boa1891

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what I meant with defog is that you can target YOUR PARTNER in 2vs2, it lowers his evasion, also blows away light screen (just tested this) on YOUR SIDE of the field...so I assume the spikes defog effect remains as well, that´s why the description I proposed is more suited


I think I know how no guard+protect works now, it has nothing to do with priority or turn order...and not only STAB moves come through

NO GUARD + PROTECT
machoke lv.51 partners in 2vs2, one has no guard

dynamicpunch: 6/10 hit through protect
submission: 4/20 hit through protect
fire blast: 3/16 hit through protect

% of attack hitting through protect/detect when no guard is in play (X)

X = 100 - move accuracy

of course, more tests need to be done but at least we have something to work with:
1. 100% accurate moves didn´t get through
2. STAB moves are not the only moves that can get through
3. higher % of dynamicpunch (50 acc.) getting through than submission (80 acc.) and fire blast (85 acc.)
PLOT TWIST!!!
The same obviously applies to Rain/Thunder and Hail/'zard, since they apparently have 25% (or so) accuracy against protect.

Does this work for OHKO moves? Someone should hack a fissure Machamp just for the purposes of testing this, and repeatedly use fissure on your protecting partner, to see if it works roughly 70% of the time.
 

Peterko

Never give up!
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no need to hack things, remember that no guard affects both your hits against target and his against you, which means you only need no guard machop to protect against the OHKO move

what could be interesting is a 70 level difference between OHKO user and protect machop, according to how no guard works the OHKO move wouldn´t get through, which is rather funny, unless the no guard mechanics only use the basic same level OHKO accuracy 30

probably gonna have to test it myself, anyway ._.


EDIT: and I did, OHKO moves can´t get through protect/detect, even if no guard is in play

Lv.100 camerupt fissure 0/16 hit against a Lv. 26 no guard machop
Lv.51 snover sheer cold 0/10 hit against a Lv.26 no guard machop


other things that should be tested against protect:
1. rain dance + thunder; hail + blizzard
2. lock-on (mind reader) + low accuracy move (except OHKO)
 

Boa1891

Ninja Researcher
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no need to hack things, remember that no guard affects both your hits against target and his against you, which means you only need no guard machop to protect against the OHKO move

what could be interesting is a 70 level difference between OHKO user and protect machop, according to how no guard works the OHKO move wouldn´t get through, which is rather funny, unless the no guard mechanics only use the basic same level OHKO accuracy 30

probably gonna have to test it myself, anyway ._.
Ease of simplicity and #results per battle. I just figured it was easier to have 1 no guard and 5 protect than 5 no guard and one OHKO.
 

Team Rocket Elite

Data Integration Thought Entity
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Lock On + Zap Cannon can break through Protect without No Guard being involved.

Magnezone uses Lock-On
Blissey used Aromatherapy

Blissey used Protect
Magenzone used Zap Cannon. It hits.
 

Boa1891

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Lock On + Zap Cannon can break through Protect without No Guard being involved.

Magnezone uses Lock-On
Blissey used Aromatherapy

Blissey used Protect
Magenzone used Zap Cannon. It hits.
Huh, that's nifty. I was going to ask about Lock-On, but I thought I'd heard someone say they tested it. Har har.
 

Peterko

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OK so there are 5 known ways to hit through protect/detect

1. Feint
2. Shadow Force
3. No Guard + move with accuracy lower than 100 (except OHKOs)
4. Thunder in Rain (30%), Blizzard in Hail (30%)
5. Lock-on/Mind Reader + move with accuracy lower than 100 (except OHKOs)

case 3-5 chance in % (X):
X = (100 - move accuracy) / 100


did I forget something?

I think these should be listed in the protect/detect descriptions
 

obi

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Well, their Accuracy is 100%, and 100-100=0, so even if they technically had this property, it would never go through.
 

Peterko

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wait Obi, they don´t have 100 accuracy they have -- accuracy and ignore accuracy and evasion modifiers

lock-on/mind reader, rainthunder, hailblizzard and no guard are "special cases" which ensure a hit...not sure what I want to say but I don´t think never miss moves can go through, protect "should" protect you against everything IMO, I wonder why there are these 3 cases (will probably test it anyway because I´m stupid - a victim of my own don´t believe unless I test it myself personality)
 

Team Rocket Elite

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Swift, Aerial Ace, etc. have an accuracu of 0 in the game's data. They also have the property of never missing. I doubt they will go through Protect normally, but it's possible that they will always go through No Guard + Protect.
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned at all but I was playing around and found two things I imagine were in Advance too.

-Truant on Slaking still activates if it gets flinched, so if it gets flinched on its attacking turn it still loses its next turn.
-Shield Dust also protects against flinch.
 
I went and did a bit of very casual testing on that (i.e. testing on the assumption that if the hit-through-Protect principle applies to Swift-like moves, the chance of it working will be 100% and as such I only need one try to confirm it false). Aerial Ace failed both when I used it normally on a Protecting Pokémon and when I did the same under the effects of No Guard. You may want to test this more thoroughly, though.
 

Peterko

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I did around the same number of tries last night, 2 lol...aerial ace against a protecting no guard machop, didn´t hit through so standard never miss moves can´t get through protect/detect, just like OHKO moves
 
I tested the evasion, No Guard, and Protect combo. I had a Machamp use Double Team six times and then had my Victreebel use Slam against him in 2v2 (the surviving enemy was a Machop that I hit with Gastro Acid so his potential No Guard is no factor). Slam hit through Protect seven out of eleven tries. Slam is a 75% accurate move, and DT ordinarily would reduce the accuracy to 1/3 of its original value after six uses. If this is done before inverting accuracy, we would expect to hit 75% of the time, but if it is done afterward, we would expect to hit 8.33333% of the time. Additionally, I determined that Protect is not "broken" after being hit by a move that penetrates thanks to No Guard. Machamp got hit by Victreebel's Slam but then was able to guard against some move by the enemy Machop. On another occasion, the enemy Machop's Seismic Toss hit through after a Slam, and I was able to hit through Protect with the 100% accurate ordinarily Wring Out. This proves pretty conclusively in my opinion that the accuracy of the move is calculated, factoring in evasion and accuracy, and then is "inverted" (100 - accuracy). It's the most rational conclusion based on my tests.
 
Tested Heal Block...

- The effect dissappears when the affected pokemon switches out
- It does not stop the affected pokemon from being healed by "trainer" items like Potion and such
- It stops Wish's effect from working even if it was used after wish was used (ie: vaporeon wishes, latios dragon pulses; vaporeon ice beams, latios heal blocks, wish fails)
- It does not stop healing from traits like Water Absorb
- It does not stop, hinder, or negate the effect of Leftovers in anyway
 

Boa1891

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Tested Heal Block...

- The effect dissappears when the affected pokemon switches out
- It does not stop the affected pokemon from being healed by "trainer" items like Potion and such
- It stops Wish's effect from working even if it was used after wish was used (ie: vaporeon wishes, latios dragon pulses; vaporeon ice beams, latios heal blocks, wish fails)
- It does not stop healing from traits like Water Absorb
- It does not stop, hinder, or negate the effect of Leftovers in anyway
In addition to this, could someone test;
Other static healing such as Walrein's ability to heal from hail, dry skin in rain, ingrain, and aqua ring.
Healing as the result of a move like Drain Punch.
 

obi

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If Heal Block is in effect, can you use Wish, switch out, and still get healed, or does Heal Block prevent the selection of healing moves as well as their effects?

If Heal Block, Wish, switch fails, then another test would be:

Fast Pokemon uses Wish
Slow Pokemon uses Heal Block
Fast Pokemon switches out
Slow Pokemon uses a move that isn't Heal Block
???
Profit
 

Chill Murray

get well soon jacoby..
I couldn't find this in any of the other research threads, so here's a move priority tier list.

Move Priority Tiers
+5 Helping Hand
+4 Snatch, Magic Coat
+3 Follow Me
+2.5 Focus Punch (charge)
+2 Protect, Detect, Endure, Feint
+1 all "Quick Attack" moves, Extremespeed, Fake Out, Bide, Sucker Punch
*0 Sleep Talk, Assurance, Me First, Payback, Everything else
-1 Vital Throw
-2 Focus Punch
-3 Revenge, Avalanche
-4 Counter, Mirror Coat
-5 Roar, Whirlwind
-6 Trick Room
 

Great Sage

Banned deucer.
Also, Trick Room is the last priority before the end of turn status and item effects. It goes after even the phazing moves.
 
In addition to this, could someone test;
Other static healing such as Walrein's ability to heal from hail, dry skin in rain, ingrain, and aqua ring.
Healing as the result of a move like Drain Punch.
I've not had a chance to test it on the DS, but I found myself in an interesting situation on PBR the other day:

In the Little Cup, the level 5 max colosseum, I had a rain dish lotad out vs. a bronzor.

Turn 1:
Lotad uses Leech Seed.
Bronzor is seeded.
Bronzor uses Heal Block.

At the end of turn 1, leftovers healed Lotad and leech seed damaged Bronzor, but Heal Block prevented the seed damage from healing Lotad. I would assume Drain moves work the same way as this, but it could use testing.

Turn 2:
Lotad uses Rain Dance.
It begins to rain.
Bronzor uses Confusion.

At the end of turn 2, Rain Dish's effect indeed heals Lotad, along with the leftovers. The leech seed works the same way as it did on turn 1.

I would then assume that all abilities that have healing effects would heal through heal block, but it would still need to be tested on the DS. As far as Ingrain and Aqua Ring go, I have a feeling they would be blocked as they are moves, but that's just speculation. I'll try to test all of this on the DS soon.


A side note: I assume then, in regards to priority moves, that Avalanche and Revenge are indeed 'meant' to happen after Focus Punch. A crazy situation involving that happened while battling a friend not too long ago, and I struggled to find any information about it.



UPDATE:

I was able to test some of the other moves in question on the actual DS.


Aqua Ring and Ingrain both are prevented from healing a pokemon who is under the effect of Heal Block.

Leech Seed and Giga Drain / other draining direct damage moves all have their healing properties negated when the user is under the effect of Heal Block. They still do damage as normal.

Both Leftovers and Black Sludge heal regardless of Heal Block status.

When under rain, both Rain Dish and Dry Skin heal regardless of Heal Block status. I did not test Ice Body, though you would expect it to work the same way.

When poisoned, Poison Heal heals regardless of Heal Block status.

Note that I did not test Water Absorb, Volt Absorb, and Dry Skin in regards to healing when hit by the respective type moves while under the effect of Heal Block. I would think they still heal though, as it seems to be that Heal Block only blocks healing associated with actual moves - items and abilities that induce healing seem to work regardless.
 

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