np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 3 - Ghosts [Giratina-O remains in Ubers - check the OP]

[G-Von]

Hi everybody!

My personal analysis is the following.

Giratina-O is a huge polyvalent Pokémon, which doesn't have a lot of answers: Clefable is probably its best, while you have Mega Audino and Wigglytuff (which can be at +2 after a Defog then), but I can't see another.
The reality is that even if it will give more interest to the OU metagame, it will raise the stall metagame, because 90 is outspeeded by probably any sweeper in OU (even with Shadow Sneak priority), and because of its HUGE defensive stats, which implies that it would be a GREAT alternative for Mega Sableye: it can burn anything, it can Defog, it has priority, it can set up Calm Minds (and be a great Restalker)...
It will so probably make longer the battle durations, which is... not the best thing for me. That's why I don't think it's the best idea for it to be suspect tested, but I would dream if the following one would be suspect.

I think that this thing would be, in my opinion, a better suspect test, because:
- It has more answers in OU than Kyurem Black: Sylveon and AV Azumarill blocks it, while they are KOd by Iron Head/Fusion Bolt from a physical Kyurem Black
- It's more easy to revenge kill it than KyuB, because of its lower Defense stat: most of its revenge killers are physical. I think to Breloom, Conkeldurr, Scizor, Talonflame, Secret Sword Keldeo, Superpower LandoScarf, which hardly revenge kills Kyurem Black, while Kyurem White is dead after that (Latios/tias are great RKs for it too, but do the same work for Kyurem Black)
- And especially, it would say a BETTER (and maybe the best) "F**k" to the stall metagame (especially at level 50), as you can see in the following calcs:
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 140-166 (39.2 - 46.4%) -- 24.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 161-191 (93.6 - 111%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 208-247 (102.9 - 122.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 133-157 (65.8 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 208-250 (100.4 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 151-179 (76.2 - 90.4%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur: 156-187 (83.4 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Amoonguss: 203-242 (91.8 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 168+ SpD Ferrothorn: 153-182 (84.5 - 100.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Turboblaze Kyurem-W Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Gliscor: 426-504 (234 - 276.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

And don't forget that this thing takes 25% on SR ;)

But anyway: I can be wrong in my opinion, that's game, and I think Gira will bring new colours in OU!

LMAO yea no that would be a horrible thing to test. Unlike Kyu-B, Kyurem-W can demolish so much shit with two moves thanks to its ability and can take advantage of it's higher SpA stat unlike Kyu-B's higher Attack stat. OU and Ubers might as would have formed to make one tier if that occurred and leave AG as the new Ubers.

Anyway, does anyone know when the ladder will be up? I'm trying to get on now but it's laggy and can't even get into the teambuilder.

 

[dramadrama]

i just want to say that cresselia is as strong defensive and isnt even ou, giratina has better typing + offensive presence, while having no good recovery. i dont think it will be like a great wall of you, still might be really cool to balance out the meta i cant see it beeing brokenbroken tho

 

[BlazeLatias]

i just want to say that cresselia is as strong defensive and isnt even ou, giratina has better typing + offensive presence, while having no good recovery. i dont think it will be like a great wall of you, still might be really cool to balance out the meta i cant see it beeing brokenbroken tho

The reason cressalia is not ou is becuase how ho2 passive she is. Sure she cant tank but she cant hit anything hard hence why shes not ou but good on stall. As i stated in my 2nd post gira is similar to cress BUT gira is not passive making gira a better cress. How is that not a better wall then cress lol you might be underselling gira a bit by saying he wont make a good ou wall. Correct me if im wrong on this.

 

[Undead32]

If your running a stall team the oodds of you running bullet punch are next too none so ii dont understand what your talking about. Besides the metta needs more diverse teams so more stalls not THAT bad of a thing.

Sorry for spelling on phone

"More stalls not THAT bad of a thing."

You've gone against people who've mostly stall, right? You know how those matches take up really large amounts of time?

Imagine 4/5 of the teams you go against are majority stall, featuring Pokemon like Giratina and Landorus-T on every single one.

Besides, the only time I ever see diverse teams, stall or not, is in low ladder, because everybody else refuses to use anything besides what they know will work 95% of the time. This issue is a lot deeper than you guys think, and throwing Giratina in the mix is more than likely only gonna make it worse.

 

[carrilero]

The reason cressalia is not ou is becuase how ho2 passive she is. Sure she cant tank but she cant hit anything hard hence why shes not ou but good on stall. As i stated in my 2nd post gira is similar to cress BUT gira is not passive making gira a better cress. How is that not a better wall then cress lol you might be underselling gira a bit by saying he wont make a good ou wall. Correct me if im wrong on this.

Another good thing about Giratina is that it doesnt lose its item meaning Bisharp isn't as big a threat to it as it is to Cress.

 

[DaGuyWithAFace]

Like many have pointed out, Giratina-O seems completely ridiculous on paper, though practice may show differently. I think that with its rather substantial weakness count (5 I believe) combined with its actual typing, It can balance fairly effectively. For a simplified example, it can get utterly bodied by Fairies and Darks, Bisharp and Specs Sylveon standing out in particular. It can also check other threats such as Raikou and Serperior (both recent additions to the tier.)

This is all just theory, though. I reserve judgement until I actually get the chance to play with the thing.

 

[BlazeLatias]

"More stalls not THAT bad of a thing."

You've gone against people who've mostly stall, right? You know how those matches take up really large amounts of time?

Imagine 4/5 of the teams you go against are majority stall, featuring Pokemon like Giratina and Landorus-T on every single one.

Besides, the only time I ever see diverse teams, stall or not, is in low ladder, because everybody else refuses to use anything besides what they know will work 95% of the time. This issue is a lot deeper than you guys think, and throwing Giratina in the mix is more than likely only gonna make it worse.

You say it like stalls unbeatable. No idont only go against stall in fact i probably dont face it enough. I honestly dont see whaat wrong with long battles considering its a defensive team that relies on chip damage. Ou has a ton of wallbreakers that can still beat gira that were mentioned in the thread.

Btw if anyone is curious im 50/50 on this

 

[RoyalDispenser]

Ok, can somebody briefly enlighten me how giratina-O would centralize the metagame any better (or worse) than say aegislash?

If we're bringing down giratina-o to check lando-I, metagross, gallade, etc.. then wouldn't this be a case of broken checking broken? Which we never strive for in suspect test. If Lando-I is a problem, we should just suspect test that instead of adding something potentially broken into the tier, shaking it up.

What legitmately counters giratina-O? What can switch into Giratina-O without getting bonked by a shadow force, will-o-wisp, dragon tail, etc. I view giratina as a faster aegislash with similar bulk and a ground immunity (with a fairy, ice, and dragon weakness to trade) and access to one of the most crippling status's in today's metagame, will-o-wisp to further his bulk.

I honestly feel like this is just the aegislash suspect test again.. we're going to bring a pokemon in the tier just the try and balance a metagame, making the majority of the tier unviable.

Also we're forgetting that giratina-O also has access to priority in shadow sneak, I don't see how revenge killing it after say a hone claw (which it most definitely can find opportunities late game to utilize) would be easy. Physical walls have to fear his special set, and special walls have to fear his physical set.. He can avoid status with sub, burn altaria, phaze switch ins, diancie can't come in on EP or EQ, gardevoir can't switch into ghost spam.. think about this.

I find this extremely overwhelming tbh. I know power creep and speed creep get's the best of giratina, however I feel that his typing and bulk surpasses all of that.

I'm very skeptical and on the fence with this.. I have brought up in the past (before anyone else in the simple questions thread) why giratina-O isn't OU and the exact reasoning why we kept it ubers.. but now that we're actually doing this I'm fearing something very worse, and overcentralization that surpasses aegislash and even mawile.

 

[Diablo_Cow]

So taking a cue from Lati@s in being an offensive defogger I made this.
Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Aura Sphere
- Defog
- Draco Meteor

188 speed EVs are there to outspeed jolly bisharp. Base 90 is rather meh so I felt any more investment just isn't worth it. 252+ for max damage from draco/shadow ball spam. I originally thought will-o-wisp would be a better way of neutering Bisharp. But 252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 68 HP / 0 Def Giratina-O: 282-332 (61.5 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO and 252+ SpA Giratina-O Aura Sphere vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 488-576 (179.4 - 211.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO means that Bisharp is OHKOed on a switch or during a sucker punch. This prevents some healing wish/heal bell shenanigans to prevent a burnt bisharp from some how coming back and haunting you. The remaining 68 EVs could bee put into attack and shadow ball can be replaced with shadow sneak, but all you'd be missing out on the OHKO on Gengar and there's like a 16% chance for the 2HKO on latias. The 2HKO on Gengar and 3HKO on Latias are with a neutral attack nature. Not worth the attack investment, especially considering you'd then have to run naive/hasty which defeats the purpose of all this bulk.

 

[ginganinja]

"More stalls not THAT bad of a thing."

You've gone against people who've mostly stall, right? You know how those matches take up really large amounts of time?

Imagine 4/5 of the teams you go against are majority stall, featuring Pokemon like Giratina and Landorus-T on every single one.

Besides, the only time I ever see diverse teams, stall or not, is in low ladder, because everybody else refuses to use anything besides what they know will work 95% of the time. This issue is a lot deeper than you guys think, and throwing Giratina in the mix is more than likely only gonna make it worse.

Calm the fuck down bro. Stall vs Offence is the personal preference of the player, if they enjoy stall, and have success doing it, then they play it. Just because you personally hate versing stall, doesn't mean that we should limit,ban or otherwise disregard a suspect just because it makes a specific playstyle better. If you don't like the metagame Giratina-O offers, then its simple, go out, ladder and fucking vote.

Stalls good for destroying randoms while allowing full control during a match over a player below your "ELO". Its reliable and I suspect thats why it gets so much use on the ladder.

EDIT

What legitmately counters giratina-O?

There have been many pokemon across a variety of metagames, across a variety of generations that don't have strict "counters" (usually wallbreakers). Its not a good enough reason to be solely the cause for a ban.

 

[Evan.]

First off, after taking a step back and looking at the situation, I'd like to say that I agree with hollywood's sentiments that the OU council is taking a big leap here and it's nice to see. Second, to all the people talking about what else should have been tested like Aegislash and Kyruem-W, go ahead and read the OP and you'll see why Gira-O was picked. It provides a solid answer to mons that were very troublesome in the OU meta, instead of suspecting all of these mons as a whole, the council decided that It would be a good idea to introduce a mon to help remedy this problem.

Anyways, when I look at Gira-O, I feel like it's completely valid to test it due to it's niche in the meta and how it might improve the OU metagame as a whole. While it's stats may seem incredulous at first, it's lack of reliable or even passive recovery is much larger of a hindrance than I think people are accounting for. Although the immunity to spikes is nice, this mon cannot continue to reliably switch into the mons that it is supposed to check. Stuff like Lando HP Ice and Serp Dragon Pulse as well as possible burns from Specs Keldeo will take their toll if Gira tries to switch in too many times. That being said, it's incredible movepool, offensive typing, and it's offensive and defensive stats combined may prove to be too much for the tier. I'm going in completely neutral and it'll be interesting to see how this new meta develops.

 

[Uphaze]

Kyurem-W has been found to be broken in monotype, a metagame where you're forced to run it along 5 ice types. Now imagine what happens when you give it real team support. Yeah, it's best not to discuss a Kyu-W suspect test any longer. This is not the place anyway.

The real team support you're talking about is available for opponents too, and I'm talking about OU, not Mono: that's 2 different things... Slowbronite is banned in Monotype and is this thing BROKEN in OU? lol Slowbro + Mega Sableye are better for tanking: Mega Slowbro slowly disappears in OU... So please answer about Kyurem-W in OU, and not in another Tier.

LMAO yea no that would be a horrible thing to test. Unlike Kyu-B, Kyurem-W can demolish so much shit with two moves thanks to its ability and can take advantage of it's higher SpA stat unlike Kyu-B's higher Attack stat. OU and Ubers might as would have formed to make one tier if that occurred and leave AG as the new Ubers.

Anyway, does anyone know when the ladder will be up? I'm trying to get on now but it's laggy and can't even get into the teambuilder.

The fact is that I can see 2 Pokemon which can be 2HKO by Kyurem Black and not by Kyurem White: SpD Sylveon, and AV Azu. So please just give me 3 Pokemon (but finding only one will be hard lol) which can be 2HKO by Kyurem White and not by Kyurem Black. I'm carefully listening to you. Me, I can't see any Pokemon which is able to do that, and that's why I think that Kyurem Black would be more broken that Kyurem White in OU.

 

[toshimelonhead]

Have to say I am a huge fan of this suspect test. Giratina is versatile enough to bring some freshness into the OU metagame without having some flaws that OU can exploit without much hassle. With some quick theorymon I wanted to post two sets to forecast Giratina's staying power in OU:

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 138 Atk / 184 SpA / 188 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Shadow Sneak
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog

This set is more for a supporting role since OU does not have nearly enough defoggers outside of Lati@s, Mandibuzz, and Zapdos. The EVs are to OHKO Gengar after a Shadow Sneak and outspeed max Jolly Bisharp in order to burn it before a Knock Off or Sucker Punch.

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 32 Def / 4 SAtk / 32 SpD / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Shadow Ball
- Aura Sphere

This set allows Giratina-O to become a dangerous setup sweeper. Jirachi back in early BW was probably the best SubCMer in OU, but this set has some nice advantages over it. With a bulky EV spread, Giratina can set up on much of the OU meta, including Mega Slowbro, Keldeo, Rotom-Wash, Mega Manectric, and Mega Charizard Y. The EVs are designed so that min investment Slowbro cannot break a Sub with either Psyshock or Ice Beam once Giratina has a boost. Once it gets rolling, even some of the best revenge killers OU has to offer in Talonflame, Thundurus, Bisharp, and Sand Rush Excadrill have trouble shutting it down. Thundurus more often than not fails to break its Sub with HP Ice if it's at +1, and Stallbreaker Talonflame cannot break its subs unless it has a boost.

At the same time, neither of these sets are unbeatable. The first set has rather poor coverage and is easy to revenge kill once Giratina has used Draco Meteor, and the second gets OHKOed by Mega Altaria and Mega Gardevoir even if behind a Substitute. Chansey, Chesnaught, and Mandibuzz also wall this set quite easily, although Giratina at +6 does 2HKO Chansey with Aura Sphere and 252 EVs in Special Attack.

What the Metagross suspect test showed me was that even though Mega-Metagross is not broken, the current metagame doesn't feel optimal. The only way to fix that is to see if we can bring an uber down to balance some of the stronger threats in OU. Giratina-O is a good choice for testing, especially since there is no consensus set out of the box that people are going to run. I'm looking forward to laddering to see whether this new OU metagame is better.

 

[ginganinja]

Have we ever had a restriction of this sort that lets you only use a Pokemon if it holds one specific item?

Its called Mega Stones. You know, that item that only allows you to use Mega X if you hold the item...

 

[Undead32]

Calm the fuck down bro. Stall vs Offence is the personal preference of the player, if they enjoy stall, and have success doing it, then they play it. Just because you personally hate versing stall, doesn't mean that we should limit,ban or otherwise disregard a suspect just because it makes a specific playstyle better. If you don't like the metagame Giratina-O offers, then its simple, go out, ladder and fucking vote.

Stalls good for destroying randoms while allowing full control during a match over a player below your "ELO". Its reliable and I suspect thats why it gets so much use on the ladder.

EDIT



There have been many pokemon across a variety of metagames, across a variety of generations that don't have strict "counters" (usually wallbreakers). Its not a good enough reason to be solely the cause for a ban.

I don't hate versing stall; I hate the idea that the meta will become a full blown stall fest because Giratina-O got unbanned just to check Landorus-I

 

[astroshagger]

I really think this is an awesome administrative call.

I'm never a fan of limiting the options players have, and I think re-introducing new threats to the game allows teambuilding to remain diverse. I wouldn't necessarily agree that the OU metagame is "stale" per se, but I do believe it is at a point where there are very clear, defined threats that rarely vary in the teams that utilize them.

 

[ginganinja]

I don't hate versing stall; I hate the idea that the meta will become a full blown stall fest because Giratina-O got unbanned just to check Landorus-I

Shush u negative nancy

EDIT

I think it's slightly different to Mega stones as in most cases the Mega will be higher tiered or the same tier as the standard mon but in this case, Giratina O will be lower tiered than normal Giratina.

You are correct that its different. But Briyella's original question was has the restriction of one pokemon being only allowed to be used with one single item ever existed before. As she has a TC badge, I was understandably confused that she apparently forgot Mega Stones have been a thing since the start of XY.

 

[Gloating]

I thought this was about Sableye... anyways this should be fun. Great way to get back into Pokemon :)

 

[hey yal]

Ok, can somebody briefly enlighten me how giratina-O would centralize the metagame any better (or worse) than say aegislash?
K
If we're bringing down giratina-o to check lando-I, metagross, gallade, etc.. then wouldn't this be a case of broken checking broken? Which we never strive for in suspect test. If Lando-I is a problem, we should just suspect test that instead of
adding something potentially broken into the tier, shaking it up.
I guess that could be the case, but stall needs some balls rn.
What legitmately counters giratina-O? What can switch into Giratina-O without getting bonked by a shadow force, will-o-wisp, dragon tail, etc. I view giratina as a faster aegislash with similar bulk and a ground immunity (with a fairy, ice, and dragon weakness to trade) and access to one of the most crippling status's in today's metagame, will-o-wisp to further his bulk.
I honestly think the argument of giratina being extremely bulky is not the best one , since it has no recovery to use. At least aegislash had lefties +ks. There's tons of things that can switchin to Gira since it honestly doesn't hit hard because it doesn't have access to items like life orb or other boosting items. It's quite weak without boosts if you ask me. As for actual switchins mega audinos ur man.
I honestly feel like this is just the aegislash suspect test again.. we're going to bring a pokemon in the tier just the try and balance a metagame, making the majority of the tier unviable.

Also we're forgetting that giratina-O also has access to priority in shadow sneak,don't see how revenge killing it after say a hone claw (which it most definitely can find opportunities late game to utilize) would be easy. Physical walls have to fear his special set, and special walls have to fear his physical set.. He can avoid status with sub, burn altaria, phaze switch ins, diancie can't come in on EP or EQ, gardevoir can't switch into ghost spam.. think about this.
You can literally say all mons can avoid status with sub, malt has sub/heal bell, and dragon tail has shaky accuracy plus things like clefable can switchin to it
I find this extremely overwhelming tbh. I know power creep and speed creep get's the best of giratina, however I feel that his typing and bulk surpasses all of that.
I still feel like its quite weak at attacking, but his bulk is gr8 but without recovery, it can get worn down. And if you use rest talk, it doesn’t have the coverage to beat all the mons you listed.

I'm very skeptical and on the fence with this.. I have brought up in the past (before anyone else in the simple questions thread) why giratina-O isn't OU and the exact reasoning why we kept it ubers.. but now that we're actually doing this I'm fearing something very worse, and overcentralization that surpasses aegislash and even mawile.

 

[WebBowser]

I, like darn near everyone else on this thread, am very surprised to see this suspect test to say the least. My first impression is very much similar to that of RoyalDispenser : Why is this thing any less banworthy then Aegislash?

Giratina-O Vs. Aegislash:

Giratina Pros:

Stupidly massive coverage movepool
Legit support options beyond sub-toxic
Not-so-weak to knock off
40 more base speed (yes that matters)


Aegislash Pros:

Better Typing
Kings Shield


Beyond that, as far as I can tell, these two threats are roughly equivalent to each other. I simply cannot imagine a world where aegislash is broken and giratina-o is not. I claim that Giratina-O's coverage and support options easily trump any strengths aegislash may have over it, and since Aegislash has been deemed broken by the community, then Giratina-O is also broken by those same standards.

Versatility matters, a lot, here's some calcs just to show what a fewEV adjustments can do

0 SpA Giratina-O Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 180-216 (52.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 144 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 194-230 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage

At 112 speed EVs, Giratina-O speed creeps jolly ttar, allowing him to burn/kill ttar with ease. This spread also allows him to outspeed and kill adamant bishy and easily take a knock off from jolly bishy and kill him:

252 Atk Bisharp Knock Off vs. 144 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 152-180 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 88.5% chance to 3HKO

These are two prominent OU dark types completely and utterly failing to even check Giratina-O, and all I needed to do was shuffle some EVs around and run aura sphere.

Don't get me wrong, I'll play the suspect like everyone else before making a final decision here, but I'm really not seeing this monster being balanced. He seems better then aegis in far too many significant ways.

 

[BlazeLatias]

I don't hate versing stall; I hate the idea that the meta will become a full blown stall fest because Giratina-O got unbanned just to check Landorus-I

What makes you tbink gira o will make ou full stall. As ginganija said it will hslp balence things and give stall (as well as all the other playstyles a boost) a bit of apush.

 

[Chronobreak]

I, like darn near everyone else on this thread, am very surprised to see this suspect test to say the least. My first impression is very much similar to that of RoyalDispenser : Why is this thing any less banworthy then Aegislash?

Giratina-O Vs. Aegislash:

Giratina Pros:

Stupidly massive coverage movepool
Legit support options beyond sub-toxic
Not-so-weak to knock off
40 more base speed (yes that matters)


Aegislash Pros:

Better Typing
Kings Shield


Beyond that, as far as I can tell, these two threats are roughly equivalent to each other. I simply cannot imagine a world where aegislash is broken and giratina-o is not. I claim that Giratina-O's coverage and support options easily trump any strengths aegislash may have over it, and since Aegislash has been deemed broken by the community, then Giratina-O is also broken by those same standards.

Versatility matters, a lot, here's some calcs just to show what a fewEV adjustments can do

0 SpA Giratina-O Aura Sphere vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 180-216 (52.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 144 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 194-230 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage

At 112 speed EVs, Giratina-O speed creeps jolly ttar, allowing him to burn/kill ttar with ease. This spread also allows him to outspeed and kill adamant bishy and easily take a knock off from jolly bishy and kill him:

252 Atk Bisharp Knock Off vs. 144 HP / 252+ Def Giratina-O: 152-180 (31.8 - 37.7%) -- 88.5% chance to 3HKO

These are two prominent OU dark types completely and utterly failing to even check Giratina-O, and all I needed to do was shuffle some EVs around and run aura sphere.

Don't get me wrong, I'll play the suspect like everyone else before making a final decision here, but I'm really not seeing this monster being balanced. He seems better then aegis in far too many significant ways.

Aegislash also has stance change as another pro, so it can have amazing offensive stats and defensive stats at different times, and while girantina has respectable attack, it's mostly just a wall. I dint know how much that matters, but I thought I should bring it up


Edit giras offensive stats are good, but aegis are higher

 

[HeartlessAngel1993]

Ok, I've been testing Giratina, And I need to point out a few things. I am running Max Special Attack. Draco Meteor, Shadow Ball, Shadow Sneak, and Defog. It failed to OHKO a Meleotta with no Special Defense Investments, and after I had gotten rid of its Assault Vest, With a Draco Meteor. Now remember that Meteor is boosted by its Grisious Orb as well. It also struggled in vain to try and take out a Volcarona. It's bulky sure, but unless you are running Rest, it can not recover, and gets worn down very easily. I think it is very clear that while it walls many threats in the tier, this is a good thing, as it itself fails to be a powerful offensive, and can only be a limited Defensive Threat. It fits in very well with the rest of the Pokemon in OU I believe personally from how I've been testing, and believe it is a welcome addition to this otherwise stale Meta.

 

[ShatteredSummers]

Ok, I've been testing Giratina, And I need to point out a few things. I am running Max Special Attack. Draco Meteor, Shadow Ball, Shadow Sneak, and Defog. It failed to OHKO a Meleotta with no Special Defense Investments, and after I had gotten rid of its Assault Vest, With a Draco Meteor. Now remember that Meteor is boosted by its Grisious Orb as well. It also struggled in vain to try and take out a Volcarona. It's bulky sure, but unless you are running Rest, it can not recover, and gets worn down very easily. I think it is very clear that while it walls many threats in the tier, this is a good thing, as it itself fails to be a powerful offensive, and can only be a limited Defensive Threat. It fits in very well with the rest of the Pokemon in OU I believe personally from how I've been testing, and believe it is a welcome addition to this otherwise stale Meta.

Neither does Life Orb Latios: 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 224-265 (65.6 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
._.

 

[HeartlessAngel1993]

Neither does Life Orb Latios: 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Meloetta: 224-265 (65.6 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
._.

Exactly. And LF Latios is in OU while Meleotta is RU. If an UBER Pokemon even fails, then maybe it just isn't Uber material.