Smeargle also has Magic Coat which bounces back faster Taunts, which none of those have. That alone coupled with hazards and spore puts Smeargle in a very unique position. It can grab momentum in several ways. That base 75 speed also puts it at a decent speed tier. + Speed nature and 252 Evs is faster than Modest Nidoqueen, Adamant Honchkrow, Modest Mega stoise, Mega Swampy, all the clerics in UU and most hazard setters (forry, donphan, empoleon).
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np: UU Stage 2.1 - You Are Invited
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Smeargle also has Magic Coat which bounces back faster Taunts, which none of those have. That alone coupled with hazards and spore puts Smeargle in a very unique position. It can grab momentum in several ways. That base 75 speed also puts it at a decent speed tier. + Speed nature and 252 Evs is faster than Modest Nidoqueen, Adamant Honchkrow, Modest Mega stoise, Mega Swampy, all the clerics in UU and most hazard setters (forry, donphan, empoleon).
smeargle is a great sticky web lead, miles ahead of galvantula. the sr/spikes set is also legit. if we banned it for smashpass, then we need to ban gorebyss as well which does literally the same thing yet no one cares about it. geopass is the only really broken set, and imo banning geomancy is the way to go.
i still feel that sleep+smash pass is a unhealthy combo. while there may be lower tier mons that have that ability as well (im not sure) they dont have the damn near infinite movepool smeargle does. the reason why gorebyss isnt broken is bc gorebyss sucks tbfh it is weak to not only support moves like roar and taunt but to strong attackers, smeargle can at least stop the support side of things. this fact would make the best passer by a long shot, which i believe make it unhealthy. smeargle with out bp would be cool tho
I can't remember with perfect clarity, but I believe that Smeargle with Quiver Dance and Baton Pass was still found to be broken. Denis' formula breaks Baton Pass and Smeargle together. We could try Shift Gear or Shell Smash, but I feel as though the more expedient route is to simply ban Baton Pass on Smeargle rather than take the time to see if DenisPass is broken without Geomancy or Quiver Dance.
I do like that Galvantula can beat every Magic Bounce user 1v1, but that's pretty much the only redeeming feature for this mon. Grass coverage is nice, but if you want to run it you have 4MSS, and Nidoqueen is neutral to grass anyways so it doesn't help you there. So yeah, some more options for sticky web laying would be really nice because the current one is pretty lackluster.
I wanna try Smeargle with transform. Lure in something powerful, put it to sleep, boost, then transform. It's
Darvin that latter set does sound pretty good as an anti meta set. Spore/Transform/Agility/Magic Coat with focus sash. Agility lets you become faster than scarfer moxie users while nabbing the speed boost to not being RK by scarfers. Mavic Coat so youre not Taunt Bait.
Itll be like a pseudo imposter ditto with Spore.
Itll be like a pseudo imposter ditto with Spore.
When you transform you copy their boosts, ie you'll have +0 speed.
Ah derp moment. So, trying an Agility before Transform just gets rid of Smeargles boosts as you copy the opponent 100%.
But you don't have access to the move "Transform".
I'm wary of the idea of a complex ban of Smeargle + BP. It just flies in the face of established smogon policy and I don't see how it's different than, as was proposed and subsequently shot down in the first ORAS OU suspect, a Greninja + Protean ban. It's removing an element of a broken Pokemon for no other reason than to let it be legal for its own sake.
I guess in this case it is entirely clear that the broken element of Smeargle is BP, as opposed to Greninja where it wasn't broken until it got enhanced coverage from ORAS, but I'm still hesitant about the precedent this would set. Yeah I know "slippery slope," but this isn't as drastic a case as the Aldaron proposal... I would appreciate some thoughts from council members on the precedent side of things.
I guess in this case it is entirely clear that the broken element of Smeargle is BP, as opposed to Greninja where it wasn't broken until it got enhanced coverage from ORAS, but I'm still hesitant about the precedent this would set. Yeah I know "slippery slope," but this isn't as drastic a case as the Aldaron proposal... I would appreciate some thoughts from council members on the precedent side of things.
The difference is that smeargle would actually have decent viability outside of baton pass while greninja would have just died with the lack of protean.
We have banned sand veil with garchomp...
This coincides with the point Thisbemyalt just mentioned. Garchomp is still very very viable without sand veil and smeargle will still be viable without baton pass!
This coincides with the point Thisbemyalt just mentioned. Garchomp is still very very viable without sand veil and smeargle will still be viable without baton pass!
There will be a lot of taunt leads if smeargle gets back in uu so having a scarf trick can lock your opponent into taunt. Then the following turn you uturn or parting shot and boom you have momentum. Viable imo. Transform on a chandy as it goes for fire blast. Spore is still good as it offers a free switch (sometimes) to gain leverage on the sleeping pokemon that would have been faster than smeargle.
Its viable just a bit situational
252 SpA Galvantula Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Espeon: 254-300 (76 - 89.8%)
max hp espeon can beat 1v1, uninvested psyshock doing ~60%, but shaky on the switchin
The problem with this argument is that the same could be said for BW Excadrill w/o Sand Rush or Genesect w/o Choice Scarf/Band. It begs the question of why not doing the same for every BL pokemon. I'm sure Zygarde w/o Coil or something along those lines would be perfectly healthy for the tier.
Sand Veil was banned as a whole, not just on Garchomp. This even had some "collateral" effects on the meta since Sand Veil Gliscor was somewhat viable (or so I've heard). If QuiverPass or w/e Smeargle wasn't found to be broken, then I'd be perfectly ok with a Geomancy ban, since it wouldn't be setting a dangerous precedent.
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