I feel as if Conkeldurr should be A-. I understand it is somewhat out of flavor, but it is surely still a threat to be reckon with.THe presence of Conkeldurr itself puts pressure on the opponent and makes him wary of the will o wisp from rotom, twavs from klefki, and scald from water types. It checks many threats currently in Ou. 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Lopunny: 264-312 (97.4 - 115.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO without rocks with Guts boost, with rocks will OHKO. Knock Off is also a really good move if you don't have a pokemon that can use it. Bisharp and Tran just dies. Excadrill has a 87.5 chance to be OHKO by Mach Punch Guts boosted Conk. Once again, I believe his B- rating i not honest and should be by the least A-.
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Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139
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Conkeldurr is way too slow, too easy to wear down, doesn't like the current metagame trends and it's just really mediocre in comparison to everything the ranks above it. It's annoying for Offense, but Stall teams easily handle it and so Balance teams. Apart from being an annoyance to offense, it really doesn't do much else. It's reliant on status to hit hard, but that just leads to it being really easy to wear down as switching into stuff just takes off almost 20% alone (Burn+SR). I don't know where you're getting this idea where it should go up 3 whole subranks when it was dropped not too long ago.
Also, the traits NTDOYMouse are really not at all impressive (Wow, a fighting type that beats Mega Loppuny, Excadrill, Bisharp, and Heatran? What blasphemy is this! And wow, a guts mon that discourages the use of status moves? Where can i find this?)
I mainly feel as if it is a hidden gem in the current meta, and I'm not sure how you can find balanced teams able to take it well, since they have pressure of the status infliction. Now for speed and also replying to
People tend to complain that they can't find a check to those mons without being easily countered. I honestly suggest trying him out in offensive teams so the status won't inflict him too much. Wish passers will work if you're not going offen.
NTDOYMouse One of the issues with your nomination is that you're nominating it for 3 spaces up. That's a massive leap, and with the often noted fact that A rank has so many mons you'll need a really damn convincing argument to get any movement like that. A much better nomination would be saying "Conkeldurr to B (possibly higher)" since that not only gets your nomination looked at more seriously but also can lead to a higher ranking than you originally proposed – look at the way base Alakazam's ranking changed.
Even then, especially for something that was dropped somewhat recently, you should include some quality replays where Conk pulls its weight. As it stands you have nothing except one calc of SE STAB priority off 140 base attack, with an Adamant nature, with guts, not even OHKOing 100% of the time without rocks on a mon with uninvested 65/94 defenses. That's not very impressive.
Personally I don't feel Conk is particularly impressive in the current meta and that B- is justified. It's slow, not outstandingly bulky (although its defenses are certainly good as long as you're holding an Assault Vest) and requires a decent amount of team support. It's not a bad mon (B- isn't a very low rank ffs not everything has to be A to be viable) but it doesn't stand among the mons in B or higher.
Even then, especially for something that was dropped somewhat recently, you should include some quality replays where Conk pulls its weight. As it stands you have nothing except one calc of SE STAB priority off 140 base attack, with an Adamant nature, with guts, not even OHKOing 100% of the time without rocks on a mon with uninvested 65/94 defenses. That's not very impressive.
Personally I don't feel Conk is particularly impressive in the current meta and that B- is justified. It's slow, not outstandingly bulky (although its defenses are certainly good as long as you're holding an Assault Vest) and requires a decent amount of team support. It's not a bad mon (B- isn't a very low rank ffs not everything has to be A to be viable) but it doesn't stand among the mons in B or higher.
If I may be ballsy enough to ask; Is Mega Diancie worthy of A+? Admittedly I haven't played OU that much recently but when I look over the A+ ranks not only do I see her far less than the other mega's but she just seems kinda the odd-looking one that simply doesn't seem as threatening. She almost requires to use protect to safely mega-evolve or she risks getting ko'd before getting to do anything, sure rock polish and calm mind are things but ditching that for protect is just horribly matchup based strategy and she desperately wants to use at least 3 attacks to get a good coverage. And almost having to running protect makes it tad bit easier to take advantage of. At least Gengar can use taunt, sub, icy wind or even will-o-wisp as the 4th move but Mega Diancie seems to be stuck with 3 moves unless you are willing to take a gamble each time you try to mega evolve it. That is far cry from other relatively risk free mons like Mega Lopunny and Mega Scizor who have a few rather risk-free sets and can handle different styles more easily without losing it's general usefulness.
Ofc, feel free to prove me wrong as I really haven't been playing OU seriously but this is a thing that has been bugging me for some time and no one is mentioning it so I had to get it out of my chest ^^
Ofc, feel free to prove me wrong as I really haven't been playing OU seriously but this is a thing that has been bugging me for some time and no one is mentioning it so I had to get it out of my chest ^^
Diancie is fine in A+. 110 speed tier is good overall. Protect isn't as awful as it is on other mons because it isn't free Stealth Rock/Spikes due to Magic Bounce. Naturally going mixed is also a strong point. Sure it would like more coverage but Fairy / Rock / Ground is more than enough to deal most of the meta. It also offers decent resists for its relatively frail defenses, in addition to checking Talonflame and absorbing Knock Offs fairly well.
RP is also pretty underrated even if it has difficulties setting up.
RP is also pretty underrated even if it has difficulties setting up.
They aren't lying about that Gallade-M is on par with Medicham-M. When it comes to usefulness to a team, Gallade would seem better on paper, yet in actual games I have used and have seen Medicham be used to greater effectiveness. The benefit of not only having a completely safe option for damage in Fake Out, it also gains the added power of being about 50% stronger than Gallade on turn one and any turn prior to Swords Dance. Gallade needs to get a Swords Dance under his belt before he can wallbreak effectively; Medicham does not. Medicham has massive KOing power the instant it is on the field. While the standard Medicham set does struggle with offense, Medicham can also run a dual priority set to moderate effectiveness. The fact that Medicham has an effective attack stat of 656 the moment in clicks the Mega button is an advantage that can not be stressed enough. Though certainly not slacking, Gallade has to use 429 until it gets an SD off. After this it can still lose to the many mons that can outrun or tie a 110 in this meta. While I am on the issue of speed, Medicham is outrun by a lot of threatening mons in this tier, yet they must fear the damage Medicham can do on the switch, which is not true of Gallade for the most part.
On the issue of Pinsir in regards to its potential drop; with the speed tier getting steadily higher, slow SD users are starting to move out of favor, with their purpose moving to that of a wallbreaker rather than a sweeper. Pinsir is just outclassed in the A- tier with the amount of entry hazard focus we have seen recently. Also, it does not actually outclass the wallbreakers in B. Crawdaunt hits harder than Pinsir at both neutral stance and after +2. To see this easily I used a Pokemon that is common in the meta right now and takes neutral damage from the both of them.
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 369-435 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Garchomp: 439-517 (104.5 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Even if you give rocks to the Pinsir it is still a 62.5% chance to OHKO, while Crawdaunt is guaranteed. While true that Daunt is outrun by tankchomp and Pinsir is not, when it comes to wallbreaking power Crawdaunt is superior in its sheer damage and coverage with its STABs.
While personally am neutral on Pinsir dropping, I had to correct some of your incorrect arguments. Please try to make sure your information is correct before you make a post that is so easily overturned (I direct this to Daunt, as the Medicham/Gallade issue is one that is somewhat debatable).
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Yeah I understand, guess that's a bit too much, baby steps it is. I didn't mean to say B or under was bad, I just felt as if it's strong enough to be A.
If status absorption and STAB Mach Punch are your arguments, I'd sooner use an offensive Toxic Orb Breloom to do the job (and this ain't bias); Toxic Orb Loom has better defensive typing, has the all-important Spore which limits switch-ins, can be invested offensively or defensively (Conk can't afford dropping offenses), and even has better sustain with its passive healing, which is the primary issue Conk has in the first place since it can't expect to heal very much from Drain Punch when opponents will be responding with resists that prevent it from trying to recover much health, not even counting any status that wears Conk down even more.
Furthermore, another huge reason Conk fell out of favor is because many mons in the S and A Ranks (hell, even the B Ranks) can either respond to it very easily, or just aren't opponents Conkeldurr can afford to tank against due to the latter's awful Speed. In fact, I'd argue the main set that is even keeping Conkeldurr in this meta is the Sheer Force Life Orb set when accompanied by Trick Room, which makes better use of its coverage and not be a slow sack of shiet that gets forced out easily.
...And with that I must rest my case. I mean I considered Breloom but I guess the toxic orb variant didn't come to mind because how fragile it is and relies on FS(technician). Thanks for all of your replies.
In my opinion, the ability to hit Reuniclus and Slowbro/king for STAB Sucker Punch is actually rather key in this meta.After looking at some of the D rank pokemon I feel like a few of don't belong.
D -> Unranked
Cloyster basically walled by every steel and water type in the tier. Its pretty much useless until it gets a shell smash up and after a shell smash leave you easily revenged killed by mach/bullet punch. Cloyster fails as a hazard lead think to mega sableye and is outclassed in the role anyway. I don't even see how this thing is suppose to late game sweep to be honest.
D -> Unranked
I don't understand why you would you honchkrow when you could use talonflame or even staraptor. I don't see what specific task honchkrow fulfills that can't be done with talonflame or staraptor.
D -> Unranked
Again another case of why would I use shaymin when I can use celebi? Seriously I kinda curious why this was even rank when better grass type like celebi, amoongus, or even trangrowth exist?
D -> Unranked
Back in xy I could see how chandelure would be D rank as it was a pretty decent stall breaker and checks to pokes like Charizard y, Heatran, clefable, and venusaur. In the certain meta I don't think its worth using since
On to a pokemon that I actually feel like belongs in rank D and I'm kind of surprised it didn't exist all ready.
Unranked -> D
Mega glalie is one of the strongest wall breaker in the tier. The combination of Double edge, Freeze dry, and Earthquake is has basically perfect coverage on the entire tier plus with explosion your basically guaranteed a killed. Obviously it not the greatest mega evolution but it definitely fill a niche of being one of one the best wall breaker in the tier.
252+ Atk Life Orb Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 439-517 (111.7 - 131.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Slowking: 189-223 (48 - 56.7%) -- 89.8% chance to 2HKO
Also, Brave Bird is not capable of KO'ing Latias, unlike Sucker Punch when you predict a Draco.
I'd like to nominate Mega Houndoom for B. This thing is a pure power house with an awesome offensive typing and access to nasty plot with a very good speed tier. I've been wondering how it has stayed so low for so long tbh. Access to taunt allows it to stall break and get easier setups on things like sableye or chansey, and if you aren't a fan of the tauntplot set you could always go the sunny day route and give it extra coverage in solar beam as well as actually utilize it's ability. It destroys metagross without rock polish, or it hasn't evolved yet, megasab, bisharp the latis, and serperior. But in contrast to that, the only thing that really holds it back is it's need for support to deal with the bunches of highly used threats to it. However, I found that the support needed is no where near as bad as people make it out to be and when this thing gets in and does it's job it leave a lot of fallout. I personally think it's worthy of B+, but I haven't got any of my replays to really show off what it can do atm, but I will soon if need be. I've maxed out at 1650 with my current Houndoom team.
In my personal opinion, Thundurus-I should remain A+. The thing that sets it above the mons in A rank is the usefulness of priority Thunder Wave. Paralyzing a fast threat like Mega Metagross or Mega Lopunny is a boon for offensive teams. Base 111 speed coupled with 125 SpA puts Thundurus in a trolly speed tier while having it hit hard with a Life Orb attached (if it has a Life Orb attached). Outside of the standard Thunder Wave, Thunderbolt, and HP Ice, Thundurus has a nice plethora of moves. Wanna boost Thundurus's wallbreaking/sweeping capabilities? There's Nasty Plot for that. Having an issue with Ferrothorn and some steels in general? Focus Blast. Mega Venusaur an issue on a few teams? Psychic. Lati twins? Knock Off. Chansey? Knock Off & Superpower on the Defiant set. Stall being a pain? Taunt's an option. Hippowdon or Quagsire wearing you down? Grass Knot. Some of the moves listed may be obscure, but Thundurus can definitely make use out of them. Thundurus does have a slight 4MSS with some of the coverage moves it gets, but prefers to run Focus Blast to get around stuff like T-Tar, Ferrothorn, Heatran, etc. if running its main set unless it has partners that can do that job for it. For these reasons, I believe that Thundurus should remain in A+.
Weavile: A- > A
Mega Medicham: B- > B
Tentacruel: B+ > B
These went through. Reasoning for a couple of things that didn't get a whole lot of discussion.
Discussion points more or less for some stuff we're discussing at the moment along with anything else you all think is pertinent.
Keldeo: S > A+
regarding Keldeo: my main problem with keld is that every teams prepare for it (heavily) and it doesn't rly have Strong and/or Reliable ways to play around its checks/counters, unlike the other S ranked mons, i just think it's ultra solid and probably the best A+ mon, but not S - McMeghan
Btw this nom will probably end up being decided fairly quickly sort of seeing as to why it would stay S at this point, hint hint it's more than likely going to A+.
Skarmory: A- > A
I was discussing with team to pinpoint some problems with the current B list as I thought things seemed out of place but after gazing through it I figured the best course of action was to review the B ranks in general B+, B, and B-. This isn't exactly a notion that we're moving a lot of stuff around but considering thread has sort of stabilized in its rankings with the exception of some minor nuisances and subjective aspects I'd like to think it'd be a good idea to review stuff and stay up to date.
For the most part it's pretty open ended so there you have it. Probably not putting E rank for awhile but it'll eventually happen when I sort of some sort of legitimate criteria in between everything else.
Mega Medicham: B- > B
Tentacruel: B+ > B
These went through. Reasoning for a couple of things that didn't get a whole lot of discussion.
ben gay: btw whats the status on megacham
AM: What's rank?
ben gay: b-
ben gay: atm
AM: rofl
AM: yeah
AM: that can go up
AM: I rather bump up m-cham to B now unless there's serious opposition
McMeghan: ^
McMeghan: agree
McMeghan: mcham is a thug
ben gay: id put it 1 subank below gallade
AM: it's retarded
ben gay: for now at least
McMeghan: the immediate power is soooo worth it
McMeghan: and the strong prioirties are great as well
AM: switch in latias the other day it took like 51% and I had some 152 hp investment or something
ben gay: yeah as far as im concerned the only relevant coverage it needs
ben gay: is like tpunch
ben gay: for bro
AM: pretty much
ben gay: it 2hkos everything else in existance
Henry: adamant 2hkos 252hp mew with hjk lol
Henry: think about it
AM: What's rank?
ben gay: b-
ben gay: atm
AM: rofl
AM: yeah
AM: that can go up
AM: I rather bump up m-cham to B now unless there's serious opposition
McMeghan: ^
McMeghan: agree
McMeghan: mcham is a thug
ben gay: id put it 1 subank below gallade
AM: it's retarded
ben gay: for now at least
McMeghan: the immediate power is soooo worth it
McMeghan: and the strong prioirties are great as well
AM: switch in latias the other day it took like 51% and I had some 152 hp investment or something
ben gay: yeah as far as im concerned the only relevant coverage it needs
ben gay: is like tpunch
ben gay: for bro
AM: pretty much
ben gay: it 2hkos everything else in existance
Henry: adamant 2hkos 252hp mew with hjk lol
Henry: think about it
TDK: i think tentacruel is bad even though I've used it multiple times before
TDK: if you don't 100% need to spin/get up tspikes it's always your first thing to sac
TDK: it's a do nothing mon that doesn't do anything more than you expect it to on paper
AM: There's teams that tenta will put a lot of work in if it has the specific assets necessary and then sometimes will just fail
TDK: which is to spin / get up tspikes / counter the fatter fairies
Henry: tentacruel is like reuniclus with utility
Henry: it just dies
Henry: in half the games you use it in
TDK: if you don't 100% need to spin/get up tspikes it's always your first thing to sac
TDK: it's a do nothing mon that doesn't do anything more than you expect it to on paper
AM: There's teams that tenta will put a lot of work in if it has the specific assets necessary and then sometimes will just fail
TDK: which is to spin / get up tspikes / counter the fatter fairies
Henry: tentacruel is like reuniclus with utility
Henry: it just dies
Henry: in half the games you use it in
Keldeo: S > A+
regarding Keldeo: my main problem with keld is that every teams prepare for it (heavily) and it doesn't rly have Strong and/or Reliable ways to play around its checks/counters, unlike the other S ranked mons, i just think it's ultra solid and probably the best A+ mon, but not S - McMeghan
Btw this nom will probably end up being decided fairly quickly sort of seeing as to why it would stay S at this point, hint hint it's more than likely going to A+.
Skarmory: A- > A
I was discussing with team to pinpoint some problems with the current B list as I thought things seemed out of place but after gazing through it I figured the best course of action was to review the B ranks in general B+, B, and B-. This isn't exactly a notion that we're moving a lot of stuff around but considering thread has sort of stabilized in its rankings with the exception of some minor nuisances and subjective aspects I'd like to think it'd be a good idea to review stuff and stay up to date.
For the most part it's pretty open ended so there you have it. Probably not putting E rank for awhile but it'll eventually happen when I sort of some sort of legitimate criteria in between everything else.
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Instead of putting an E-Rank, why not have sub divisions for D-Rank instead? Looking at the current mons in D-Rank, there are quite a few noticeable viability gaps between several mons, so having sub divisions would fix this issue as well as allow Pokemon that are a bit more niche than some of the current D-Rank mons to get ranked.
Keldeo is interesting. Obviously it's still a huge threat in the meta, but I definitely agree with moving it out of S rank into A+. The increasing popularity of Pokemon like Slowking and Tornadus-T definitely makes Keldeo's job a lot tougher than ever before. I don't really have much else to say about this guy really. Keldeo is such a simple Pokemon that it just fluctuates in viability constantly as it's checks and counters see more or less use.
keldeo is s because of scald and because subcm was ruling the meta at the time. now i find that scald is still a broken tool against balanced teams but balances teams seem to naturally have multiple keldeo answers just intrinsically ie mega altaria, starmie, tornadus-t, celebi, slowking, slowbro, tangrowth, mega venu that you can't use scald to get past them all. it feels like a lot of balance teams have to make a concentrated effort to counter pokemon like kyurem-b, sd talonflame etc, but when it comes to keldeo it's honestly not something i prepare for because the best and most valuable pokemon on balanced teams just naturally check it and i don't even have to think about it unless i use something weird. stall doesnt exist and offensive teams can have some trouble switching into specskeld but they typically have checks like latis and tornt and thund, most faster mons do decently well unless scarf but scarfkeld is complete shit because it's far too weak. it would definitely be the best a+ mon if it moves down but it doesn't the same level of influence/dominance as the other s rank mons by for which are all debatably broken
Mega Medicham is something I definitely agree with, but I also feel that Mega Gallade should also move down to B. Due to the combination of Huge Power and 100 base attack, mMedicham is actually more powerful on balance than Mega Gallade. Although its speed tier misses out on avoiding such threats like Garchomp, Terrakion, Keldeo, Adamant Hawlucha and tying with the base 110s, it allows for Mega Medicham to be an extremely good wallbreaker in the ORAS metagame.
Mega Gallade, on the other hand, isn't helped by its 65 base defence. Sure, both of their defences, Medicham and Gallade, suck, but when Mega Gallade tries to hit the faster threats like Latios, it can easily be OHKO'ed by a Draco Meteor. Mega Gallade can also wallbreak, but it doesn't hit the insane attack stat that Mega Medicham does (598 with an Adamant nature). Mega Gallade is generally used as a cleaner at the point it sets up +2, but this also means that a lot of relevant threats must be taken care of first, including the Latis, Faster Megas (and, now with ORAS, there are a lot of faster, relevant Megas like Lopunny and Alakazam), Talonflame, etc. My main issue with Gallade as a cleaner though is its speed stat, which puts it out of range of many of the ORAS threats, and why I believe it warrants a move down to B-rank.
Mega Gallade, on the other hand, isn't helped by its 65 base defence. Sure, both of their defences, Medicham and Gallade, suck, but when Mega Gallade tries to hit the faster threats like Latios, it can easily be OHKO'ed by a Draco Meteor. Mega Gallade can also wallbreak, but it doesn't hit the insane attack stat that Mega Medicham does (598 with an Adamant nature). Mega Gallade is generally used as a cleaner at the point it sets up +2, but this also means that a lot of relevant threats must be taken care of first, including the Latis, Faster Megas (and, now with ORAS, there are a lot of faster, relevant Megas like Lopunny and Alakazam), Talonflame, etc. My main issue with Gallade as a cleaner though is its speed stat, which puts it out of range of many of the ORAS threats, and why I believe it warrants a move down to B-rank.
Personally, I'd rather have an E rank on the basis that a lot of the stuff that would go there is a bigger step below anything that's in D than, say, the B- 'mons are to the B or B+ 'mons tbh. Having an E rank also means that there isn't a break in the way that the +, = and - ranks are being allocated (i.e. to the ranks which are considered to be relevant in the metagame), meaning that it is far more fitting for the lower ranks. Remember: the main aim of adding an E rank would be to encourage people to try out new things, and I feel like having a D- rank wouldn't have the same psychological impact as an E rank would tbh.
Anyway, I am going to bring up a few noms.
Firstly, I'm seconding the Mega Houndoom nom. I recently built a team around it and I found that Houndoom is really f*cking good. Hell: Houndoom was able to set up Nasty Plots on a lot of the metagame due to its speed tier+typing, and its ability to catch its usual switch-ins such as Azumarill with Sludge Bomb was the icing on the cake tbh. It was VERY fun destroying opposing Zard-Y teams and, beyond just Zard Y teams, it is actually rather anti-meta. I never regretted not having HP Grass simply because it pairs well with a lot of the 'mons which are able to beat things like Seismitoad and Gastrodon anyway, and I never regretted using Houndoom over Zard-Y even once tbh.
Mega Gallade-->B: At this point, it is very obvious that Mega Gallade and Mega Medicham are equally good at their respective roles while being very easy to compare to one another despite fitting on different teams. They both hit very hard, they both mega evolve from things which are otherwise shitmons and they share their typing. However, Medicham is far more effective as a wallbreaker while Gallade is far more effective at cleaning. Now onto the stuff that isn't blatantly obvious to anyone with at least one brain cell. Neither of them are particularly splashable, with them having both having rather large opportunity cost associated with their use (much like Mega Sceptile in both OU and UU). However, the sheer power means that they have means they are both usable on some teams, but tbh I don't think that Mega Gallade warrants being as high as it is ATM.
Chansey-->B-/C+: I am bringing it up again because I genuinely think that Chansey is not good in the meta anymore. It is so passive that it can't contribute anything to any playstyle other than stall and there are simply better options for a special wall that mean that it struggles to make any major impact in any encounter I have with it (whether I'm using it or my opponent is). It isn't hard to deal with, its typing means that it is vulnerable to the coverage of a lot of the things that it is meant to check and its lack of offensive presence severely hurts its splashability to the point where I simply don't feel that it is on the same level as any of the things that are in B such as Quagsire and Amoonguss (to compare it to other stall'mons) or Slowking (as a special wall/tank) and it is debatable as to whether it is even on the same level as a lot of the things in B- tbh. I have explained in the past that I find Blissey to be better on most teams due to its improved splashability and utility as a result of its ability to carry coverage, but I'm not going to bring it up again atm.
Gothitelle-->B-: I have a thing against Gothitelle, and I simply find that it isn't that useful a lot of the time (and certainly not on the same level as stuff like Mega Garchomp and Empoleon). While Shadow Tag's utility is great, I simply struggle to see why Gothitelle is ranked so high as, tbh, if you are reaching a point where you need Gothitelle there is most likely a pretty big hole in your team that can be filled by changing one or two 'mons. As a result, if I ever see a Gothitelle team, I will look it over thoroughly and usually come to the conclusion that there is a hole in their team. I haven't seen a well built Gothitelle team outside of SmogTours, and having scanned through to find Gothitelle matches from all points in the gen 6 meta I have concluded that it is about as useful as the B- stuff.
Finally, I am bringing up a nom that I made a little while ago but I feel got sidestepped due to the same post containing my defense of the ben gay rank. I'm just gonna quote it because I'm too lazy to type it again.
Also gonna add that it hard counters Keldeo 'cause that is neat.
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I don't think Jellicent should be ranked. I mean, sure, it cockblocks Keldeo, has Will-O-Wisp, and reliable recovery. I mean, it has a minuscule niche of fitting onto stall/defensive teams, but then you realize that stall really doesn't exist. While I'm not saying it's bad or anything, it's usefulness and usage has really declined. Bulky offense (or balance) is really the way to go, and you're recommending a Pokemon for a playstyle that really doesn't exist to be honest. Secondly, you mentioned yourself one of Jellicent's most crippling weaknesses - Knock Off and Pursuit. With Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Bisharp, Weavile, Scizor, Azumarill, Mega Gyarados, and to an extent Landorus and Clefable, roaming free, this weakness is amplified much more, making Jellicent more often a liability than not. Thirdly, Jellicent has a terrible matchup against... well... pretty much over half of the tier. Looking at S to A+ to A ranks, Jellicent really only checks Keldeo, Heatran, and Hippowdon. If you're lucky, maybe Latias and Gliscor as well. There's really not much Jellicent can actually do in this metagame, especially when it is beaten by so many Pokemon, and as I said earlier, it's more often a liability than not. Lastly, Jellicent mandates a lot of team support. Because of its substantial amount of weaknesses, there must be a lot of team support required to help Jellicent function - just thinking at the top of my head, it needs Dark-type, Pursuit, and Knock Off absorbers (at least 2), such as Clefable, Keldeo, and Tyranitar, checks to various Pokemon such as Mega Metagross, Landorus, Mega Altaria, Mega Manectric, Raikou, Rotom-W et cetera that completely destroy it.
TL;DR Keep Jellicent unranked.
TL;DR Keep Jellicent unranked.
Debatably as in most of them. Stop nitpicking.
Btw I forgot to put this in the update but we're also considering Skarmory for A- > A. Long story short, spikes, defensive utility, phasing, etc. Had this stuff before but it's more or less fantastic in meta right now. I'll put in later shortly in the actual post.
I'm not a fan of Mega Gallade at all, I think it's a pretty overrated mega but ben thought that M-Cham should be a rank lower than on the premise that SD / Drain Punch M-Gallade is a very legitimate option even more so on many teams because it maintains longevity and still has the capabilities of wall-breaking after a set up without dropping Mega Gallades defense putting it in range of an easy revenge kill. Shadow Sneak, as many like to call shit, can pick off the majority of offensive teams so granted people are gonna downplay these assets but there is a reason why M-Cham is lower at this point.
I'll comment on more stuff later in terms of raises and drops. I could go ahead and explain why M-Houndoom shouldn't rise, again, but I think it's a wasted effort at this point. Also Keldeo going to A+ like trc is a thing with me as well. There isn't anything new that maintains its S rank position at this point and more or less trc's post covered it up.
Nominating Slowking to B+
I have been using this mon for a while and I think it should rise. Even thoug it has a lot of competition from other water types (Keldeo, Starmie, Azumarill, Manaphy, Slowbro, Rotom-W, etc.)no other has its unique walling capabilities in a single slot. I'm talking about its defensive set. Lately I've used it with this set and it has worked amazingly well:
Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
This set checks every set of Mega Metagross(w/o Thunder Punch), every set of Keldeo(Specs HP Electric/Bug doesn't even 2HKO it), Mega Lopunny, Mega Diancie, Lati@s, Starmie, Tornadus-T,etc. and due to CM it actually has an offensive presence that allows him to beat Mega Venusaur, CM Clefable and Mega Gardevoir and Zard Y(although it needs to be at +1 already to beat Mega Zard Y and Mega Gardevoir w/ Taunt) and take profit of pasive answers to it like defensive Starmie(it also acts as a bulky wincondition). Being weak to Knock Off and Pursuit are big downsides and it must be taked into consideration when using it but you can play around that and help Slowking with team support.
I have been using this mon for a while and I think it should rise. Even thoug it has a lot of competition from other water types (Keldeo, Starmie, Azumarill, Manaphy, Slowbro, Rotom-W, etc.)no other has its unique walling capabilities in a single slot. I'm talking about its defensive set. Lately I've used it with this set and it has worked amazingly well:
Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
This set checks every set of Mega Metagross(w/o Thunder Punch), every set of Keldeo(Specs HP Electric/Bug doesn't even 2HKO it), Mega Lopunny, Mega Diancie, Lati@s, Starmie, Tornadus-T,etc. and due to CM it actually has an offensive presence that allows him to beat Mega Venusaur, CM Clefable and Mega Gardevoir and Zard Y(although it needs to be at +1 already to beat Mega Zard Y and Mega Gardevoir w/ Taunt) and take profit of pasive answers to it like defensive Starmie(it also acts as a bulky wincondition). Being weak to Knock Off and Pursuit are big downsides and it must be taked into consideration when using it but you can play around that and help Slowking with team support.
- Status