It kind of does matter what the build of stall is because if the stall build relies on longevity with Wish support, Regenerator, and or self recovery the repeated Volt Switch damage is minuscule and over time Rotom-W will be worn down considering most games it spends its time trying to not get pressured by resorting to the wrong move at that very moment in most situations where a switch in is about to come in or trying to dodge things like status. If we're assuming semi-stall this means that these stall teams are packing stuff like Clefable or something with higher speed control and or utility to hinder Will-O-Wisp such as Mega Sableyes Magic Bounce, Magic Guard on Clefable and Reuniclus, Mega Altaria, and Char-X. If Hippowdon, Slowbro, and traditional checks to Zard-X are gone Zard-X can sweep. If your teams sole Char-Y switch in / answer is gone Char-Y can clean your team. I think we can sort of figure out and assume that if a check to something is gone said something is going to have an easier time to do its job but here's the kicker. You first have to get to this point before this argument will ever hold any weight. Getting to this point is real nice with the glitter and gloss showing how it exceeds in a certain matchup but who's to say that your opponent is wearing down M-Venusaur to the point Rotom-W is a problem of all things out of the like 30+ things people should be more concerned about? Hell, who's to even say you're gonna see a stall team entirely made up of 6 fat mons that are slow as shit and only know how to sit back and die to almost all the relevant meta-game trends in regards to wall-breaking mons where at minimum one is going to be on your standard team with back up behind it to pressure mons like Rotom-W even more. Rotom-Ws greatest effectiveness in my eyes was around the Mega Pinsir / Azumarill era with the whole Italian offense thing, basically another meta-game in its entirety where it slowed down stuff such as these dominant threats from becoming too absurd. Now a days you have a meta dictated by heavy wall-breakers, a ton of threats it doesn't actually check at all in practice, Mega Altaria / fairies on a bunch of teams suited to a bunch of playstyles, lack of a real way to break defensive cores while being a symbol of momentum when it's momentum is founded on the idea you don't have something that comes in and in that instance turns it into a liability.
Ok what regenerator mons actually beat rotom-w? The most common ones, slowbro and slowking, both don't like it, and amoonguss and tangrowth (the latter of which does not appreciate burn) and both of which cannot rely on slack off for their recovery like slowbro/king can. Stall can only use wish in the first place if you let up pressure somehow, its honestly skill-based at that point, and self-recovery doesn't prevent burns, which still cripple. Self-recovery also means just more recovery from pain split for rotom-w. Never said vs was strong but it's fantastic at grabbing momentum against stall when paired with water stab.
For regenerator mons, tangy/amoong aren't even that common and slowking/bro lose to rotom-w anyways. Mons that avoid passive damage from will-o still aren't free from repeated volt switches. As long as you have something to atleast force it out, you're fine.
who's to say that your opponent is wearing down M-Venusaur to the point Rotom-W is a problem of all things out of the like 30+ things people should be more concerned about?
I don't really get what you're trying to say here. If you're telling me that rotom-w isn't something to be concerned about in comparison to 30+ other things then doesn't that make it all the better for the person using rotom-w? You'd be at an advantage against a stall player who neglected to prepare anything for rotom-w. If i'm misunderstanding something here please tell me lol.
Hell, who's to even say you're gonna see a stall team entirely made up of 6 fat mons that are slow as shit and only know how to sit back and die to almost all the relevant meta-game trends in regards to wall-breaking mons where at minimum one is going to be on your standard team with back up behind it to pressure mons like Rotom-W even more.
Well tell me how stall pressures rotom-w. Through SD+wisp talon? Through SD gliscor? Through bulky SD mzor? Any kind of stall-ish Swords dancer rotom-w has under control too.
On the other hand, Cm users on stall, such as clefable and mega lati, are legitimate ways to not be passive, but I fail to see how rotom-w is pressured by these pokemon.
Now a days you have a meta dictated by heavy wall-breakers, a ton of threats it doesn't actually check at all in practice, Mega Altaria / fairies on a bunch of teams suited to a bunch of playstyles, lack of a real way to break defensive cores while being a symbol of momentum when it's momentum is founded on the idea you don't have something that comes in and in that instance turns it into a liability.
I agree that it performs much worse in practice than on paper against the things its supposed to check, but conversely i'm tryna say that it performs much better in practice against defensive teams than on paper.
You say that its momentum is founded on the idea of it not having something that comes in, but really, how often are you going to see a team with a rotom-w on it but nothing to handle grasses? There's a certain base level of shit that every team has to answer to somehow, and most of the things that come in on rotom-w fall under this certain base level of shit, so more often than not, there will be something on your team to answer to your opponent's answer to rotom-w.
Besides, isn't it nice for rotom-w to be kicking around easily generating momentum for the said wallbreakers that heavily dictate the meta? I'm sure that mega metagross will appreciate the safe switch into mvenu as opposed to risking an annoying leech seed or chip damage in knock off/hp fire.
I'm still asking what stall is being built to where this legitimately happens in favor of Rotom-W?
Any stall team with anything rotom-w can come in on and force out, like slowbro, hippo, megazor, togekiss, talonflame, heatran, jirachi, skarmory, or starmie! Pretty tough to build without any of those huh
Don't forget that if you build with one or more of these, rotom-w is getting me a free switch-in to a heavy-hitter of my choice unless you'd like to risk dead birds or burned steels.
IMO, the biggest problem with both
Srn and
mac1275 's arguments aside from the fact that basically Srn is saying that if you build your team around Rotom-W and pair it with a bunch of good stallbreakers it can beat a couple of mon on stall the others might not (and, moreover, that because you can run 5 other mons Rotom-W is better in its own right) is that they both imply that the Rotom-W controller will be able to flawless predict their opponent's moves through the entirety of what is usually going to be a rather long stall match. Eventually, that Hippo is gonna wisen up that you're spamming volt switch and get off a toxic on you, and then the whole argument of "Status + SR will wear it down until it dies" Srn uses for literally all of Rotom-W's counters is suddenly thrown back in Rotom-W's face.
Build your whole team around rotom-w when did I ever say that. Don't put words in my mouth bro. I said that mons that people naturally pair with rotom-w already are beating switchins to it! What i just said to AM applies here: all teams generally prepare for rotom-w switch-ins because they're so limited, and thus common.
And if your opponent is intelligent enough to take the risk of keeping hippo in on a rotom-w then bravo to them I really don't know how to respond. You say that its going to be difficult to predict throughout the entire stall match, but its BECAUSE its long that its easier to predict: if people played risky with stall that'd be destroying the point, unless you have a bad matchup and desperately need ur non-passive mon to be a threat. Because its against stall, and that stall has to survive, its easier to predict your opponent. Of course, prediction is a two-way street, so I can't really push this argument but I wanted to point this out.