Resource ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V3 - Read Post 3451 Page 139

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Maybe he wasn't very keen on the recoil damage?

I want to ask, what set is making people nominate infernape for B? It's a tad bit slow now compared to many 110 mons, it's attacking stats at 108 each isn't that good either. I'm guessing it's for the bulky one, but I have yet to encounter one and use one so I can't vouch for that.
 
Well there's this misconception regarding power that it all has to do with base stats and KlefkiHolder touched on this. The other part of power is your moves. Infernape has high base power STABs, in fact it has 120 base on both STABs on both physical and special ends of the spectrum. This is a considerable move power difference from many pokemon which rely on say a base 80 power STAB move:

252 SpA Infernape Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 154-183 (45.1 - 53.6%) -- 37.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 141-166 (41.3 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see, despite having a much larger attacking stat and even being + natured, Gyarados' attack does less than Infernape's due to the difference in the power of their STAB moves.

Infernape also has access to other powerful moves like Gunk Shot, Stone Edge, and Grass Knot (well this one varies but yeah), boosting moves for both ends of the spectrum, U-turn, Stealth Rock, priority moves and even Will-O-Wisp and Slack Off (which make a good defensive set walling Bisharp, Weavile & Mega Scizor). Considering all this together it has a pretty wide variety of things to choose from most of which are fairly viable. Personally haven't tried them all out so while I tentatively support a rise, my opinion is not the strongest on the matter.
 
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Maybe he wasn't very keen on the recoil damage?

I want to ask, what set is making people nominate infernape for B? It's a tad bit slow now compared to many 110 mons, it's attacking stats at 108 each isn't that good either. I'm guessing it's for the bulky one, but I have yet to encounter one and use one so I can't vouch for that.
The defensive set is definitely why I think it's deserving of B. Weavile's usage has exploded recently, and the usage of Bisharp and Mega Scizor has remained constantly high. What all three of these mons also have in common is that they're checked by defensive Infernape. 76/71/71 bulk really isn't that much, but when combined with its high Speed for a defensive mon, its defensive typing, and access to Will-o-Wisp, it's a surprisingly consistent addition to almost any defensive team in need of a check to Bisharp, Weavile, and Mega Scizor. It also has access to Taunt, which lets it handle stall mons, such as Celebi, Mew, and Amoonguss, very well. And that's just its defensive set; when you add on its other sets (Mixed Offensive and SR lead mostly, but also SD), it's clear to me Infernape belongs in B rank. Perhaps none of the sets individually warrant a B-ranking, but that's for a different thread; its ability to perform in all of its roles effectively is what makes it B to me.
 
What are opinions on Terrakion right now?I Would like to get a general consensus because I feel like the majority of people are fine with where it is.


It's not all that great. Offensive sets face competition from Mega Lopunny and Mega Gallade. Even Keldeo who is an inherent mixed attacker with Secret Sword and has much better synergy with Bisharp. Talking about Bisharp, the Taunt + SR Terrakion set doesn't synergize too well with him as they share Ground and Fighting weaknesses. And you would like to use Bisharp to deter Defog if you're using a suicide lead Terrakion so it's just not ideal. There's also many commonly used mons that beat Terrakion, like Hippowdon, Gliscor, Landorus-T, Slowbro, defensive Starmie (who can also spin Rocks away), making him not as much of a threat as he appears at first sight. I believe he's fine in B+ rank.

+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Landorus-T: 273-321 (71.4 - 84%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 144+ Def Hippowdon: 387-458 (92.1 - 109%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 265-313 (82 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Slowbro: 317-374 (80.4 - 94.9%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Gliscor: 331-391 (93.5 - 110.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

I think its safe to say that in the current meta double dance terrakion is its best set. Im not sure if it needs a rise as B + is a fair ranking, but it certainly doesn't need a drop.
Its a great wall breaker and can also double its speed and threaten sand rush excadrill lopunny and other fast threats.
 
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Salamence should move up to C- Rank imo.

While its offensive sets are utter shit nowadays, Salamence has one redeeming factor: and that is Defog. I believe Salamence's capabilities as a bulky defogger are more than enough to warrant a bump up to C-. With Intimidate in tow, along with a really good defensive typing to boot, Salamence makes for a pretty good Defog user imo. A set with Defog, and both Fire Blast and Hydro Pump allows Salamence to serve as a resilient bulky Defogger that can take on Landog, Mega Lopunny (to an extent), and a lot of physical threats fairly well, then proceed to remove hazards with Defog. With its bulk, combined with Fire Blast and Hydro Pump/Earthquake from a good 110 Special Attack and I guess a high 135 Attack, Salamence also has the bonus of being able to take on many of OU's prominent hazard setters, such as Ferrothorn, Heatran, Jirachi, Landorus-T (I guess), Hippowdon, and Skarmory. It has the offensive movepool and power, the bulk, and the typing to function as an effective hazard remover, and it makes a fairly good addition to more defensive builds to be a good bulky Defogger.

I'm not saying that Salamence is suddenly a great Pokemon, but it has a pretty good niche that it can use well and as such it deserves to be higher than D Rank.

as for other notes, I agree with moving regular Metagross and Infernape up, regular Meta is a good tank with a nice typing, Pursuit, and hits hard so it's a good check to a lot of mons such as Latis, Clefable, Mega Altaria, and more, so C- or C is good. Infernape's MixApe set has always impressed me with its power and good coverage and combined with a good defensive set that has gotten better with the rise of Weavile, it's pretty solid. Definitely a B mon imo.

That's all for now, I'll think of more later.
 
Well there's this misconception regarding power that it all has to do with base stats and KlefkiHolder touched on this. The other part of power is your moves. Infernape has high base power STABs, in fact it has 120 base on both STABs on both physical and special ends of the spectrum. This is a considerable move power difference from many pokemon which rely on say a base 80 power STAB move:

252 SpA Infernape Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 154-183 (45.1 - 53.6%) -- 37.1% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mew: 141-166 (41.3 - 48.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

As you can see, despite having a much larger attacking stat and even being + natured, Gyarados' attack does less than Infernape's due to the difference in the power of their STAB moves.

Infernape also has access to other powerful moves like Gunk Shot, Stone Edge, and Grass Knot (well this one varies but yeah), boosting moves for both ends of the spectrum, U-turn, Stealth Rock, priority moves and even Will-O-Wisp and Slack Off (which make a good defensive set walling Bisharp, Weavile & Mega Scizor). Considering all this together it has a pretty wide variety of things to choose from most of which are fairly viable. Personally haven't tried them all out so while I tentatively support a rise, my opinion is not the strongest on the matter.

Another thing to mention about offensive Infernape is that common sets run a form boosting, whether it be LO, CB, or SD/NP. The only Offensive set that doesn't is MixedScarf. So, despite it's low stats I think this is a good point, its higher BP Moves for both STABs and coverage should be mentioned as well as common variants running boosting items. Unlike DD Gyarados, it doesn't require Leftovers or whatever (using the example given). Another thing to add is that Antilead sets often run Overheat as their monoattacking move. People kind of write off this set due to its uncommon nature but access to fast Taunt, SR, Fake Out and Overheat allow it to beat most common SR setters with the exception of Azelf. Sturdy/Sash mons are broken by Fake Out and many leads are weak to Fire allowing Overheat to KO or chunk them significantly. Taunt is there to stop rocks if it can't KO (Heatran, Ttar).

I also support the rise of normal Metagross its large attack stat, high bulk and good defensive typing warrant its rise. It holds the ability to check a few higher ranking mons like the Latis very well. I also support the rise of Salamence, for pretty much the reasons mentioned above.
 
Salamence should move up to C- Rank imo.

While its offensive sets are utter shit nowadays, Salamence has one redeeming factor: and that is Defog. I believe Salamence's capabilities as a bulky defogger are more than enough to warrant a bump up to C-. With Intimidate in tow, along with a really good defensive typing to boot, Salamence makes for a pretty good Defog user imo. A set with Defog, and both Fire Blast and Hydro Pump allows Salamence to serve as a resilient bulky Defogger that can take on Landog, Mega Lopunny (to an extent), and a lot of physical threats fairly well, then proceed to remove hazards with Defog. With its bulk, combined with Fire Blast and Hydro Pump/Earthquake from a good 110 Special Attack and I guess a high 135 Attack, Salamence also has the bonus of being able to take on many of OU's prominent hazard setters, such as Ferrothorn, Heatran, Jirachi, Landorus-T (I guess), Hippowdon, and Skarmory. It has the offensive movepool and power, the bulk, and the typing to function as an effective hazard remover, and it makes a fairly good addition to more defensive builds to be a good bulky Defogger.

I'm not saying that Salamence is suddenly a great Pokemon, but it has a pretty good niche that it can use well and as such it deserves to be higher than D Rank.

as for other notes, I agree with moving regular Metagross and Infernape up, regular Meta is a good tank with a nice typing, Pursuit, and hits hard so it's a good check to a lot of mons such as Latis, Clefable, Mega Altaria, and more, so C- or C is good. Infernape's MixApe set has always impressed me with its power and good coverage and combined with a good defensive set that has gotten better with the rise of Weavile, it's pretty solid. Definitely a B mon imo.

That's all for now, I'll think of more later.

Okay, gonna not be biased for a sec so there is that.

Salamence has that one nice niche, and truthfully, it seems alright to consider with some of the stuff that is in C- rank (course this is always difficult to discern due to just how the lower ranks are usually in flux and just got stuff crammed in there). I mean, I feel like I'd rather see Salamence be in a spot just cause I think I'd use it over another mon in the ranking. His matchup is great gainst many standard SR setters, just as most mons, he is gonna have to pick his poison. He wants Defog, and he'd like to carry Roost as well to help the defensive role there. So he has two move slots there to abuse against them all, and while his choices are nice, they are not generally STABed (if its Hydro and or Fire Blast) with minimal investment of of his used attack. I'd assume its the UU stat spread or similar to it right?

Idk, it seems like fine in theory but the choice of just keeping it at Hydro Pump and Fire Blast and not using some STAB just is silly. I dont see him pulling off a fast attacker nearly as well as the Latis just cause I'd be questioning why not just use them a million times over (even with Weavile everywhwere). Course this is C- rank, and Flygon was similarly ranked in that area before cause of the idea of SR Resistant Defog so, guess Sala can be possibly nudged up a little. Sorry if I am coming bit odd off, been a bit since I tried reasoning in Viability threads so not as good as I should.
 
Okay, gonna not be biased for a sec so there is that.

Salamence has that one nice niche, and truthfully, it seems alright to consider with some of the stuff that is in C- rank (course this is always difficult to discern due to just how the lower ranks are usually in flux and just got stuff crammed in there). I mean, I feel like I'd rather see Salamence be in a spot just cause I think I'd use it over another mon in the ranking. His matchup is great gainst many standard SR setters, just as most mons, he is gonna have to pick his poison. He wants Defog, and he'd like to carry Roost as well to help the defensive role there. So he has two move slots there to abuse against them all, and while his choices are nice, they are not generally STABed (if its Hydro and or Fire Blast) with minimal investment of of his used attack. I'd assume its the UU stat spread or similar to it right?

Idk, it seems like fine in theory but the choice of just keeping it at Hydro Pump and Fire Blast and not using some STAB just is silly. I dont see him pulling off a fast attacker nearly as well as the Latis just cause I'd be questioning why not just use them a million times over (even with Weavile everywhwere). Course this is C- rank, and Flygon was similarly ranked in that area before cause of the idea of SR Resistant Defog so, guess Sala can be possibly nudged up a little. Sorry if I am coming bit odd off, been a bit since I tried reasoning in Viability threads so not as good as I should.

Fatmence doesn't need a STAB to function. I know they are different tiers but in UU many Fatmence do not run a Dragon STAB since its job is to check physical threats and defog hazards. And considering the high BP of Fire Blast and Hydro Pump, running something like Dragon Pulse/Claw is not needed since the base power will only be marginally higher. Plus, Fatmence is doing zero damage on neutral hits to anything with some form of bulk so a Dragon STAB for neutral hits is again, not needed.
 
Fatmence doesn't need a STAB to function. I know they are different tiers but in UU many Fatmence do not run a Dragon STAB since its job is to check physical threats and defog hazards. And considering the high BP of Fire Blast and Hydro Pump, running something like Dragon Pulse/Claw is not needed since the base power will only be marginally higher. Plus, Fatmence is doing zero damage on neutral hits to anything with some form of bulk so a Dragon STAB for neutral hits is again, not needed.

Alright then bud, thats all I needed to know. From what I saw of the UU set in the dex it had Dragon Claw/Tail as recommended so was curious if it was going with that. Course it could need to be updated but thats just what I was thinking on it as Dragon Tail was a recommended move.

Ah well, tried to not be bias and it bit me. Happens. Thanks for response then.
 
What's the general consensus for Porygon2's ranking? I honestly think that based on the viability of the Pokemon in C- it should drop, but before I argue I would like someone to inform me as to why Porygon2 deserves C, so I know what I'm talking about. Cheers
 
http://hastebin.com/jagikohege.md

Here was a team I built with a defensive Infernape. I really like its ability to not be passive as fuck as a "wall". The team could obviously imporve because Scizor and Infernape can be redundant seeing as they both check WEavile, Bisharp, etc... but it can partner well with Psychics like Slowking, Lati@s and Reuniclus. Its defensive set along with Weavile and Bisharp being extremely common push it to B if not B+ but I have to say its bulk is shit in regards to moves it doesnt resists.
 
What are opinions on Terrakion right now?I Would like to get a general consensus because I feel like the majority of people are fine with where it is.
I feel like Terrakion is kinda underrated. A lot of people rely on our boy Hippowdon to check a bunch of threats, and Adamant Life Orb Terrakion at +2 has a good chance of getting an OHKO on it, making whatever you have in the back that was walled by it more useful (imagine a MManectric able to spam Volt Switches). It lures a ton of glue mons such as the aforementioned Hippowdon, Clefable, MVenusaur, MAltaria, Skarmory, etc. weakening them so that a teammate can clean up. It's really versatile as it just needs two moves to be effective, and all of its sets are effective. SD Adamant Life Orb weakens a ton of shit and can use in its last slot whatever it wants honestly, taunt to stop whirlwind/roar, substitute to avoid random thunder waves or rock polish to do better against offense. Then Scarf which revenge kills the monstruosity that is Zard-X and MLopunny. Banded kinda wallbreaks from the get go but you need to predict correctly. What if its "walled" by certain mons which actually get really damaged by +2 attacks. I mean this thing is really strong and 2HKOes 72 HP Latias with fucking Close Combat. Defensive Starmie isn't a counter as it can't switch-in nor can it OHKO Terrakion. I feel it needs more love and even if it can't switch-in too much, once its in something is going to get damaged pretty heavily. I feel like it is on par with regular Gyarados, Volcarona and Raikou and a bump to A- doesn't seem too far fetched.
 
So can we please see Emboar the hell out of D rank now?
Emboar honestly never deserved to be kicked as low as D in the 1st place, but in the current meta I can't accept it being there any longer.
Many of the reasons Emboar needs to rise are very similar to Infernape.

The pokemon which Emboar synergies fantastically with in Psychic types are extremely dominant atm and many have been moving up. There are currently 18 Psychic types from B+ to S on the viability rankings. Emboar benefits greatly from this as not only does it have great synergy with them, due to its ability to counter or check Pursuit trappers like Bisharp, Weavile (which is on the rise) and Scarf T-tar, as well as other Dark, Steel and Bug types. Emboar is also rather decent against Psychic types, with LO Sucker Punch being able to OHKO many offensive Psychics, and many defensive Psychics can be out sped and killed by Flare Blitz.

Emboar also has an extremely underrated amount of versatility. When Emboar 1st got Reckless, it was mainly judged on its choice sets, which are not nearly its most viable or best sets. Non choiced Emboar is very versatile. LO is probably Emboar's best set, giving it crazy power, a very powerful Sucker Punch, and the ability to switch moves. Just to give people an idea of how powerful Sucker Punch is;
252+ Atk Life Orb Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Yeah its not as reliable, but it is as strong as 252+ Mega Scizor's STAB Technician Bullet Punch.
Between Dual STABs, and the possibility of Grass Knot, Wild Charge or Head Smash, there isn't a single pokemon in OU the can guarantee a safe switch in. So when you combine the fact that any pokemon in OU can be 2HKOed, and Emboar has strong priority to beat common revenge killers like Latios and Gengar, Emboar can be really hard to play around once it is in safely.
The Sub F-Punch set is another extremely strong Emboar set. The combination of Leftovers, Sub and only 1 recoil move make this set the most sustainable by far, and really strong on balance builds. The set is also the most independent Emboar set, and can Stall break to an extent.
Either choice set is extremely strong on HO, they lack longativity but when used correctly will consistently nab at least 2 kills.
Other viable sets include Flame Plate, Flame Charge, and PuP. Also if your anything like my friend, AV is useable because you can invest fully in SpD, as Reckless Flare Blitz OHKOs most offensive Special Attackers even with 0 investment.

To give an idea of some of the pokemon that Emboar can Check or Counter, there is;
Mega Houndoom, Mega Sableye, Mega Absol, Bisharp, Weavile, Scarf T-Tar, Mega Scizor, Volcarona (without HP Ground), Heatran (without Earth Power), Ferrothorn, Jirachi (Almost no sets run ZH), Mega Venusaur (Defensive), Celebi (Many don't run Psychic STAB), Breloom, Chesnaught, Amoonguss, and Serperior (if Emboar is scarfed).
It may not be the longest list ever, but when you consider how much pain Emboar can dish out once its in, the list is pretty solid.
And of course, like anything that hits as hard as Emboar, the list expands substantially when you consider 1v1 situations.

Given that every time Emboar is brought up people mention Victini, I just wanna write a paragraph in advance as to how Emboar is similar to Victini, but not outclassed.
Emboar and Victini are similar in that they are both Fire type Wall Breakers. They can both run a large variety of similar sets like Scarf, Band, Sub, LO, Special Lure, etc. Both have similar damage output. And both have crippling side effect on their most powerful STABs.
Emboar isn't outclassed by Victini because; Emboar's secondary Fighting typing is superior in the current metagame and gives it a much more powerful secondary STAB. However initially less bulky and slower, after just 1 V-Create, Emboar becomes bulkier and faster than Victini, so can stay in longer. Emboar is neutral to SR. Emboar isn't pursuit trapped, killed by stray Knock Offs, or revenged by Sucker Punch. Emboar matches up far better vs Dark and Bug types. Emboar has access to powerful priority in Sucker Punch. And Emboar has access to extremely powerful Rock coverage in Head Smash.
As for a power comparison:
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 331-390 (81.9 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 306-360 (75.7 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Emboar is only slightly weaker.
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 159-188 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 153-180 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Again only ever so slightly weaker.
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 73-87 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 127-150 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Emboar's secondary STAB is incredibly more powerful than Victini's
So yeah, Emboar and Victini are very similar in a lot of ways, but Emboar is almost on par Victini in most roles and has its fair share of advantages over Victini. But of course Emboar's biggest advantage over Victini is its typing, which is very good in the current meta for all the same reasons Infernape is on the rise.
(Yes I understand that Victini has many advantages over Emboar too, but Emboar has enough to weigh them out and more than justify Emboar's usage, as if secondary typing wasn't big enough the way the meta is shaping).

Outside of the Sub F-Punch set, Emboar often requires a bit of support, but it doesn't need anything substantial, and it is well worth the support. Anything along the lines of Paralysis, Volt-Turn or Healing Wish, will almost always get Emboar an extra KO. Its not mandatory, but you would be silly not to use something like Volt-Turn on balance, or Paralysis on HO when it is so easy to work in and makes Emboar so much more threatening.

With all this said, I think Emboar is easily worthy of a rise as high as C+, along side things like Staraptor, Rhyperior and Heracross.

tl;dr Emboar should have never been in D rank and needs a rise for many of the same reasons as Infernape. Most notably its typing making it a great check to many Dark, Bug and Steels types, giving it great synergy with the plethora of Psychic types. Emboar also matches up well vs many Psychics with Sucker Punch. Emboar's best sets (non-choiced) were largely unexplored and underrated during the 'hype' period when Emboar first got Reckless (Choiced sets are still great on HO). Victini doesn't outclass Emboar. Emboar to C+.
 
So can we please see Emboar the hell out of D rank now?
Emboar honestly never deserved to be kicked as low as D in the 1st place, but in the current meta I can't accept it being there any longer.
Many of the reasons Emboar needs to rise are very similar to Infernape.

The pokemon which Emboar synergies fantastically with in Psychic types are extremely dominant atm and many have been moving up. There are currently 18 Psychic types from B+ to S on the viability rankings. Emboar benefits greatly from this as not only does it have great synergy with them, due to its ability to counter or check Pursuit trappers like Bisharp, Weavile (which is on the rise) and Scarf T-tar, as well as other Dark, Steel and Bug types. Emboar is also rather decent against Psychic types, with LO Sucker Punch being able to OHKO many offensive Psychics, and many defensive Psychics can be out sped and killed by Flare Blitz.

Emboar also has an extremely underrated amount of versatility. When Emboar 1st got Reckless, it was mainly judged on its choice sets, which are not nearly its most viable or best sets. Non choiced Emboar is very versatile. LO is probably Emboar's best set, giving it crazy power, a very powerful Sucker Punch, and the ability to switch moves. Just to give people an idea of how powerful Sucker Punch is;
252+ Atk Life Orb Emboar Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shaymin: 120-142 (35.1 - 41.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Yeah its not as reliable, but it is as strong as 252+ Mega Scizor's STAB Technician Bullet Punch.
Between Dual STABs, and the possibility of Grass Knot, Wild Charge or Head Smash, there isn't a single pokemon in OU the can guarantee a safe switch in. So when you combine the fact that any pokemon in OU can be 2HKOed, and Emboar has strong priority to beat common revenge killers like Latios and Gengar, Emboar can be really hard to play around once it is in safely.
The Sub F-Punch set is another extremely strong Emboar set. The combination of Leftovers, Sub and only 1 recoil move make this set the most sustainable by far, and really strong on balance builds. The set is also the most independent Emboar set, and can Stall break to an extent.
Either choice set is extremely strong on HO, they lack longativity but when used correctly will consistently nab at least 2 kills.
Other viable sets include Flame Plate, Flame Charge, and PuP. Also if your anything like my friend, AV is useable because you can invest fully in SpD, as Reckless Flare Blitz OHKOs most offensive Special Attackers even with 0 investment.

To give an idea of some of the pokemon that Emboar can Check or Counter, there is;
Mega Houndoom, Mega Sableye, Mega Absol, Bisharp, Weavile, Scarf T-Tar, Mega Scizor, Volcarona (without HP Ground), Heatran (without Earth Power), Ferrothorn, Jirachi (Almost no sets run ZH), Mega Venusaur (Defensive), Celebi (Many don't run Psychic STAB), Breloom, Chesnaught, Amoonguss, and Serperior (if Emboar is scarfed).
It may not be the longest list ever, but when you consider how much pain Emboar can dish out once its in, the list is pretty solid.
And of course, like anything that hits as hard as Emboar, the list expands substantially when you consider 1v1 situations.

Given that every time Emboar is brought up people mention Victini, I just wanna write a paragraph in advance as to how Emboar is similar to Victini, but not outclassed.
Emboar and Victini are similar in that they are both Fire type Wall Breakers. They can both run a large variety of similar sets like Scarf, Band, Sub, LO, Special Lure, etc. Both have similar damage output. And both have crippling side effect on their most powerful STABs.
Emboar isn't outclassed by Victini because; Emboar's secondary Fighting typing is superior in the current metagame and gives it a much more powerful secondary STAB. However initially less bulky and slower, after just 1 V-Create, Emboar becomes bulkier and faster than Victini, so can stay in longer. Emboar is neutral to SR. Emboar isn't pursuit trapped, killed by stray Knock Offs, or revenged by Sucker Punch. Emboar matches up far better vs Dark and Bug types. Emboar has access to powerful priority in Sucker Punch. And Emboar has access to extremely powerful Rock coverage in Head Smash.
As for a power comparison:
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 331-390 (81.9 - 96.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 306-360 (75.7 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Emboar is only slightly weaker.
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 159-188 (39.3 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Reckless Emboar Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 153-180 (37.8 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Again only ever so slightly weaker.
252+ Atk Choice Band Victini Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 73-87 (18 - 21.5%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Emboar Superpower vs. 252 HP / 104+ Def Mew: 127-150 (31.4 - 37.1%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Emboar's secondary STAB is incredibly more powerful than Victini's
So yeah, Emboar and Victini are very similar in a lot of ways, but Emboar is almost on par Victini in most roles and has its fair share of advantages over Victini. But of course Emboar's biggest advantage over Victini is its typing, which is very good in the current meta for all the same reasons Infernape is on the rise.
(Yes I understand that Victini has many advantages over Emboar too, but Emboar has enough to weigh them out and more than justify Emboar's usage, as if secondary typing wasn't big enough the way the meta is shaping).

Outside of the Sub F-Punch set, Emboar often requires a bit of support, but it doesn't need anything substantial, and it is well worth the support. Anything along the lines of Paralysis, Volt-Turn or Healing Wish, will almost always get Emboar an extra KO. Its not mandatory, but you would be silly not to use something like Volt-Turn on balance, or Paralysis on HO when it is so easy to work in and makes Emboar so much more threatening.

With all this said, I think Emboar is easily worthy of a rise as high as C+, along side things like Staraptor, Rhyperior and Heracross.

tl;dr Emboar should have never been in D rank and needs a rise for many of the same reasons as Infernape. Most notably its typing making it a great check to many Dark, Bug and Steels types, giving it great synergy with the plethora of Psychic types. Emboar also matches up well vs many Psychics with Sucker Punch. Emboar's best sets (non-choiced) were largely unexplored and underrated during the 'hype' period when Emboar first got Reckless (Choiced sets are still great on HO). Victini doesn't outclass Emboar. Emboar to C+.
The things emboar checks and counts are the same thing any fire type could check or counter... Victini and Emboar aint even in the same book so PLEASE dont even try to make the comparison... a 74 difference in BST and a 35 difference in speed, with victinis way better bulk (There's a reason emboar is ru guys>) and rolf emboars advantages over victini will NEVER be enough to justify running emboar over victini on any planet....

Anyway to comment on the rest of your post, nape is up because of many reasons its a great rock setter for ho and is actually fast.... Emboar gets outclassed at everything it does,and is to slow to run a decent scarf set and to slow for a lo set.... its not just viable for ou and if u honestly think Emboar is on the same level as mega pidgeot and idk wtf to tell ya man

Also 18 psychic types from Bplus to S would make its typing shit.... there's no possible reason to run a emboar on your team over the other great fighting types in the meta unless you're a hipster
 
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The things emboar checks and counts are the same thing any fire type could check or counter... Victini and Emboar aint even in the same book so PLEASE dont even try to make the comparison... a 74 difference in BST and a 35 difference in speed, with victinis way better bulk (There's a reason emboar is ru guys>) and rolf emboars advantages over victini will NEVER be enough to justify running emboar over victini on any planet....

Anyway to comment on the rest of your post, nape is up because of many reasons its a great rock setter for ho and is actually fast.... Emboar gets outclassed at everything it does,and is to slow to run a decent scarf set and to slow for a lo set.... its not just viable for ou and if u honestly think Emboar is on the same level as mega pidgeot and idk wtf to tell ya man

Also 18 psychic types from Bplus to S would make its typing shit.... there's no possible reason to run a emboar on your team over the other great fighting types in the meta unless you're a hipster
There is a reason to use Emboar. Emboar is significantly more powerful than a lot of physical attackers courtesy of Reckless boosting its main STAB, and it is actually VERY difficult to wall (albeit very short-lived). In addition, unlike Infernape and most other Fighting-types in the tier, it isn't forced out if Lati@s is able to get in on it due to Sucker Punch giving it a way to hit them hard if it chooses to forgo Head Smash's coverage - with even 248 / 180 bold Mega Latias having a good chance to be KOed by the combination of SR, Flare Blitz and Sucker Punch on LO variants. While it shouldn't be moved up due to just how team-specific it is and how short-lived it is, it is certainly viable due to how insanely powerful it is and the utility of Sucker Punch for it.
 
There is a reason to use Emboar. Emboar is significantly more powerful than a lot of physical attackers courtesy of Reckless boosting its main STAB, and it is actually VERY difficult to wall (albeit very short-lived). In addition, unlike Infernape and most other Fighting-types in the tier, it isn't forced out if Lati@s is able to get in on it due to Sucker Punch giving it a way to hit them hard if it chooses to forgo Head Smash's coverage - with even 248 / 180 bold Mega Latias having a good chance to be KOed by the combination of SR, Flare Blitz and Sucker Punch on LO variants. While it shouldn't be moved up due to just how team-specific it is and how short-lived it is, it is certainly viable due to how insanely powerful it is and the utility of Sucker Punch for it.

Who says the Mega Latias has to attack Emboar? It is well established that Emboar runs Sucker Punch to bypass the Latis, so why would the Latis attack when they have ways around Sucker Punch, such as Reflect Type? LO Latias of course is troubled by Emboar, but Mega Latias is significantly bulkier and can afford to run Reflect Type because it allows it to assist in relieving damage from Pursuit trapping.
 
While I'm a fan of Emboar, going all the way from D to C+ is ludicrous. It does have several justifiable niches as was mentioned including Reckless Flare Blitz and Sucker Punch, but don't let your eagerness affect how you rank something. From my experience with it I certainly think that C- is a better fit for it than the likes of D rank, and I could justify a raise there. It's also a Fighting type that doesn't die immediately to Fairy types. People are asking for Infernape to rise and Emboar's selling points over it are immediately better power as well as Sucker Punch protecting it from the likes of Latios, Gengar, Alakazam, etc.
 
Who says the Mega Latias has to attack Emboar? It is well established that Emboar runs Sucker Punch to bypass the Latis, so why would the Latis attack when they have ways around Sucker Punch, such as Reflect Type? LO Latias of course is troubled by Emboar, but Mega Latias is significantly bulkier and can afford to run Reflect Type because it allows it to assist in relieving damage from Pursuit trapping.
I never said it did. I was just giving an example of a scenario which could work, depending on the position that both sides are in. Anyway, the main point I was trying to get across was the sheer power of Emboar - with Sucker Punch's utilities mainly acting as icing on it (hence why I made a point of saying "if it chooses to forgo Head Smash's coverage" and why its mention at the very end is minor. It was mainly to highlight something that it can do that Infernape can not (i.e. play around Lati@s - I just listed the bulkiest spread that does much on the bulkiest form of Lati@s). I'm not trying to argue for it to go up though, so I'm not going to go into too much detail. I was just defending its position on the rankings :]

edit: On a different note, agreeing with Jaroda when I say that if it were to move up at all it'd be to C- at the most. The C+ nomination was ludicrous as Emboar isn't that good - especially not on the level of stuff like Seismitoad, M-Blastoise and Magneton in their respective roles. Hell, it kinda drops short when compared to M-Absol, M-Banette and Kyurem in their respective roles too - albeit to a lesser extent for obvious reasons.
 
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Sorry if im a bit late to the discussion but i definitely feel that Infernape should rise too.

Its defensive set has found a home on one of my stall teams as a fantastic weavil/bisharp check, he really makes them redundant in a game and its a bit of a surprise factor. The number of times i've caught something on the switch with a willo or a taunt is remarkable as people really dont seem to expect it. Combined with taunt + slack off its a really tanky mon and capable of taking down some defensive cores by itself. It does have some fairly common weaknesses however and its spdef uninvested is naff so thats a bit of a downer but considering this is just one of its potential sets and its actually a really good and underrated one i think it would be fair play to give it a rise.

Im not sure if replays are required for rank increases/decreases but here a couple of them:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-244496258 - Runs enough speed to outrun ada diggersby
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-243578170 - Not many mons can tank Bisharp and burn counters so easily
 
Agreeing with the Infernape rise. It has a lot of versatility and power, from it's all out attacking set to it's defensive set, which works as a Weavile/Bisharp counter. He has lots of utility options with Stealth Rock and Taunt, and even has Slack Off for recovery. Life Orb boosted Flare Blitz and Close Combats hit hard, and he has a bit of coverage as well. 108 speed is pretty good, although he misses out on the base 110's. He does have some weaknesses and it's bulk is bad uninvested, but Infernape is definitely deserving of a rise.

Also agreeing with the Emboar rise to C-. Reckless boosted Flare Blitz hits like a truck, and it has Reckless Wild Charge to hit water types as well, and Sucker Punch for the latis. He does have some problems, like mediocre bulk and bad speed, but he is a C- mon.
 
Infernape would only rise with its Defensive set. No point in gassing it up based on its offensive merit.

Emboars pretty garbage, even for a D rank mon.

Gastrodons effectiveness is somewhat being overstated for a rise, it's fine where it's at.

Neutral on Suicune but it pressures a ton of teams with more credit than people give it for assuming you aren't using it terribly.

Terrakion should stay B+, Porygon2 should stay where it's at, Bronzong I kind of think is less than stellar in this meta but better than all the C+ stuff so I guess it can stay B- for now, Cresselia is just...so limited with so little justification to use it these days so Idk why it's being considered in the same capacity as stuff such as Staraptor and Thundy-T.
 
I was wondering about Mega Latios, I find it more unviable than every other C rank mons in most situations because there is like little to no situations that someone would use it, heck I think is the most unviable mega in the whole ranking,(LO Latios hitting harder and Mega Latias being much better CM user as a reason), I think it should drop at least to C-.
 
I would like to nominate Nidoking for a rise. With the recent ban of Landorus-I, Nidoking receives a lot less competition as a special wallbreaker. Its great movepool, Sheer Force and coverage mean that it has the same things that made Lando-I so great. However, due to its low stats in general with an emphasis on speed, it requires support or a scarf to be able to face offensive mons. It faces similar problems as Kyurem-B albeit more amplified. The main draw that it had over Lando-I while he was in OU was that Nidoking had much better coverage. Access to a giant movepool that includes Ice Beam, Earth Power (STAB), Sludge Wave (STAB), Poison Jab (STAB), Superpower, Fire Blast, Flamethower, Thunderbolt and many more. Nidoking can also effectively run mixed wallbreaking sets that include Poison Jab to get past fairies (Fairies tend to have higher SpD). Obviously Nidoking has many drawbacks but with its main competition gone and it still remaining an amazing wallbreaker, I think that it has to potential to move up to C-/C.

Emboar on the other hand is fine where it is. It is about as reliable as many of the other mons in D (Salamence, Cloyster, Chandelure, Honchkrow) which are mainly wallbreakers/sweepers that are outclassed or pretty much outclassed except for a small niche. Emboar has a small niche as a wallbreaker however it receives competition from mons even inside it's tier as Haxorus and Honchkrow are both amazing wallbreakers with high power. Honestly, if Emboar rises than pretty much the entire D tier needs to be overhauled.

Terrakion is fine, Pory2 is fine, while I am unsure about M-Latios.

NOM: Nidoking D-->C-/C
Emboar, Terrakion, Porygon2 stay where they are.
 
Infernape would only rise with its Defensive set. No point in gassing it up based on its offensive merit.

Emboars pretty garbage, even for a D rank mon.

Gastrodons effectiveness is somewhat being overstated for a rise, it's fine where it's at.

Neutral on Suicune but it pressures a ton of teams with more credit than people give it for assuming you aren't using it terribly.

Terrakion should stay B+, Porygon2 should stay where it's at, Bronzong I kind of think is less than stellar in this meta but better than all the C+ stuff so I guess it can stay B- for now, Cresselia is just...so limited with so little justification to use it these days so Idk why it's being considered in the same capacity as stuff such as Staraptor and Thundy-T.

Any words/thoughts about Kyurem-B to A? I think most of the comments about it were on page 61.
 
Infernape would only rise with its Defensive set. No point in gassing it up based on its offensive merit.

Emboars pretty garbage, even for a D rank mon.

Gastrodons effectiveness is somewhat being overstated for a rise, it's fine where it's at.

Neutral on Suicune but it pressures a ton of teams with more credit than people give it for assuming you aren't using it terribly.

Terrakion should stay B+, Porygon2 should stay where it's at, Bronzong I kind of think is less than stellar in this meta but better than all the C+ stuff so I guess it can stay B- for now, Cresselia is just...so limited with so little justification to use it these days so Idk why it's being considered in the same capacity as stuff such as Staraptor and Thundy-T.

Any thoughts on regular heracross to B - ? I made a post on page 60 regarding it.
 
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