Ladder ORAS Monotype Discussion

[Purply]

I understand what you're coming from, but it still doesn't matter if Mega Scizor is banned or not if you still have its regular to use. You're missing the bigger picture of what the rest of the Steel-type Pokemon can do. Lets not forget that many Steel-types can take down a lot of Ice-type Pokemon. It can't always be centered around a Mega Scizor when you have:

Choice Scarf Excadrill that carries Iron Head and Rock Slide, both of which can cause flinching and OHKO some of the Pokemon Ice Mono carries. Also with Jolly nature, Excadrill will be outspeeding pretty much every Ice Mono you have unless you somehow run a Jolly Choice Scarf Weavile.


You have a Magnezone that runs Choice Scarf as well with Flash Cannon and making use of Volt Switch allowing it to be an excellent pivot and also helps with taking down Cloyster because I know how great its Special Defense is. Also Magnezone gets rid of Pokemon holding Focus Sash,

-Choice Scarf
-Flash Cannon
-Volt Switch
-Thunderbolt

Skarmory as your excellent entry hazard setter and physical tank taking many hits from in breaking Focus Sash Pokemon and Sturdy Avalugg with Stealth Rock opening a more of a chance completely sweep them. Also making use of Whirlwind to deal damage to multiple Pokemon on your team leaving you with less switches. Giving Ice Mono a loss in 25-50% of their HP (excluding Mamo and Aurorus). It can even take a +2 Skill Link Icicle Spear from Cloyster. Also it keeps it from setting up as well. You'd have to run Articuno or Delibird to get rid of them. Also this can be a way for Bisharp to switch in and get a Defiant boost from Defog.

-Stealth Rock
-Spikes
-Whirlwind

Ferrothorn another tank that gives Steel-types an advantage in Speed control with Thunder Wave and is able to use Leech Seed and Protect to stall and switch out with giving your teammates HP back if your opponent attacks. Also with the parahax, it gives you a chance to set up if you're running Pokemon such as Bisharp and Doublade. Even Heatran puts a stop to ice types as well.


I'm just keeping things short here. Don't want to make paragraph ranting from these haha.

Mega Scizor isn't the only Pokemon ice would have to worry about.

MegaScizor has a priority moves, the other steel pokemon haven't that. Morever, an ice Pokemon can be Scarfed, too. timid Kyurem can outspeed Excadrill and Magnezone and kill them with Earth Power. A lot of ice pokemon can learn electric moves against Skarmory, and Ferrothorn can be damaged by Mamoswine's Superpower, Regice's Focus Blast, hidden power fire...Scizor can be beaten ONLY with hidden power fire. Ferrothorn is weak to fight, too

"You'd have to run Articuno or Delibird to get rid of them"
You forgot rapid spinners(Cloyster, Avalugg and Cryogonal)

And you forgot that Froslass can learn Taunt.

MegaScizor isn't the only problem, I know, but it's the biggest problem.
It's unbreakable, very unbreakable, not like the other steel pokemon.
MegaScizor has a Priority move.

Scizor is a problem but honestly people have found so many ways to check it by now that shit like hp fire cloyster isn't even a suprise. I am not trying to make up calc or anything like that when I say this but I thought that totally maxed defense walrein can take 2 +2 mega scizor bullet punchs (I'm lazy so not gonna check). Not only this but ice is a type with seriously badmatchups and banning scizor will have many bad effects on the metagame, for example bug would be utterly screwed against mega diancie. Not to mention after it is banned i am almost certain that steel would still absolutely demolish ice, bug will still have a favorable matchup against ice but next to nochance against fairy, and ice would still be bottom usage because types like fighting still destroy it.

Please don't bring up a scizor ban you yung fool, the types weren't made to be equal and acting like banning scizor will save the world is childish and incredibly wrong

Edit: I checked the calcs, max defense lives 2 and also checked a specs walrein calc, it lives mega scizor and can ohko with hp fire unless it'd a bulky variant and obviously it helps with other shit too like frost breath vs mega sab

First of all, MegaScizor can't be killed with one hit, by a simple hidden power fire. I showed that, before.
And it threaten Walrein with Superpower.

"Not only this but ice is a type with seriously badmatchups and banning scizor will have many bad effects on the metagame, for example bug would be utterly screwed against mega diancie."
No, it isn't true. You forgot Durant, Escavalier...there a lot of Bug\Steel pokemon. But they, instead of Scizor, haven't Bullet punch, haven't a priority move(so, ice pokemon can play and they don't lose without doing anything).
A Durant can kill a Diancie\MegaDiancie. So, bug monotypes aren't damaged by Scizor's ban.
However...nobody give attention to Ice pokemon...but are Bug pokemon more important?
BugMonotype could have Durant or Escavalier, Scizor isn't so necessary.

"Not to mention after it is banned i am almost certain that steel would still absolutely demolish ice, bug will still have a favorable matchup against ice but next to nochance against fairy, and ice would still be bottom usage because types like fighting still destroy it."
1)You can have the possibility to win against steel pokemon, using an ice monotype. It could be difficult, but not impossible(like with Mega-Scizor);
2)Bug can kill fairies not only with Durant(for example), but also with Scolipede or other Bug\Poison pokemon. Because poison is super-effective against fairy;
3)Fighting monotypes are less used than Steel monotypes, and then you can have the possibility to win. Like for Steel, it's difficult, but not impossible.
For example, Froslass isn't damaged by Mach Punch(while, against bullet punch, every pokemon is damaged) and Jynx attacks fighting pokemon supereffectively

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

MegaScizor has a priority moves, the other steel pokemon haven't that. Morever, an ice Pokemon can be Scarfed, too. timid Kyurem can outspeed Excadrill and Magnezone and kill them with Earth Power. A lot of ice pokemon can learn electric moves against Skarmory, and Ferrothorn can be damaged by Mamoswine's Superpower, Regice's Focus Blast, hidden power fire...Scizor can be beaten ONLY with hidden power fire. Ferrothorn is weak to fight, too

"You'd have to run Articuno or Delibird to get rid of them"
You forgot rapid spinners(Cloyster, Avalugg and Cryogonal)

And you forgot that Froslass can learn Taunt.

MegaScizor isn't the only problem, I know, but it's the biggest problem.
It's unbreakable, very unbreakable, not like the other steel pokemon.
MegaScizor has a Priority move.

Okay lets break this down. You're saying that Mega Scizor has priority moves. So does Regular Scizor. There is no actual difference between both Pokemon besides the 100 BST for Mega Scizor and that Regular Scizor can hold items. Even if you have a Rapid Spin Pokemon, I don't see what Delibird can even do besides removing hazards with Defog / Rapid Spin. Cryogonal isn't really much help outside of Hidden Power Fire and support because of its terrible movepool that it has. Cryogonal's terrible defensive stats and typing leaves it to be desired. Also if hazards are already out on the field, you'd have to "switch" into your entry hazard Pokemon. So pretty much Cloyster, Avalugg, and Cryogonal would still be taking passive damage. Why even run Rapid Spin on Cloyster when you should make use of Shell Smash, Skill Link, and its coverage moves that could help you sweep the opposing team? I'm more focused on the more notable Pokemon that are used on Ice that I see through experience.

No, I haven't forgot that Froslass can learn Taunt because it's a standard move to use on it along with Spikes, Destiny Bond, Frost Breath, Ice Beam, and Thunder Wave. But what really makes you sure that the opponent will have Skarmory stay in on Froslass? For all I know they can just switch out and go into Excadrill anticipating it. Choice Scarf Kyurem-B is common because I run a Naive nature on it with Ice. I can switch out and go into Skarmory or an Air Balloon Heatran to avoid damage.

You keep saying that Mega Scizor should be suspected and banned just because of your Ice Mono is having a rough time against it and you're not looking at what the other Steel-types are capable of. Tbh Choice Band Scizor is even more terrifying than Mega Scizor against Ice Mono. I can even name several Pokemon that can even put a huge dent into Ice-types such as Serene Grace Choice Scarf Jirachi. But think outside the box. I don't think you realize that Steel-types doesn't even need the help of Mega Scizor to beat Ice-types. Nothing will change after the ban. Mamoswine has superpower and Weavile has Low Kick. Perfect time for me to switch out of Ferrothorn and into Skarmory and get damage from Rocky Helmet. Remember, switching is involved. Superpower from a Mamoswine is a 2HKO not an OHKO on Ferrothorn. Same thing goes for Weavile with Life Orb.

Mega Scizor would need to be suspected if there are many issues against other Monotypes not just ice. You can't just say, "Oh Mega Scizor is the most difficult Pokemon to beat with ice and I'm sick of it. I want it to be suspected and banned." When you have may other Steel-types to deal with, especially when you're playing against "good Steel-type players." Even with the ban, Steel-types don't need a mega Pokemon to run over an Ice mono regardless. Overall they don't even need a mega to function better.

Banning Mega Scizor wouldn't change a thing for your ice mono is what I'm saying because they'll still be at a terrible disadvantage.

 

[Purply]

"Okay lets break this down. You're saying that Mega Scizor has priority moves. So does Regular Scizor. There is no actual difference between both Pokemon besides the 100 BST for Mega Scizor and that Regular Scizor can hold items. Even if you have a Rapid Spin Pokemon, I don't see what Delibird can even do besides removing hazards with Defog / Rapid Spin. Cryogonal isn't really much help outside of Hidden Power Fire and support because of its terrible movepool that it has. Cryogonal's terrible defensive stats and typing leaves it to be desired. Also if hazards are already out on the field, you'd have to "switch" into your entry hazard Pokemon. So pretty much Cloyster, Avalugg, and Cryogonal would still be taking passive damage. Why even run Rapid Spin on Cloyster when you should make use of Shell Smash, Skill Link, and its coverage moves that could help you sweep the opposing team? I'm more focused on the more notable Pokemon that are used on Ice that I see through experience."
Cloyster can be used also as a Spiker\Rapid spinner, too.
Scizor has less attack than megascizor, and Avalugg can take some hit and rapid spin.

"No, I haven't forgot that Froslass can learn Taunt because it's a standard move to use on it along with Spikes, Destiny Bond, Frost Breath, Ice Beam, and Thunder Wave. But what really makes you sure that the opponent will have Skarmory stay in on Froslass? For all I know they can just switch out and go into Excadrill anticipating it. Choice Scarf Kyurem-B is common because I run a Naive nature on it with Ice. I can switch out and go into Skarmory or an Air Balloon Heatran to avoid damage."
You talk me about predict, now. These are different situations, my enemy can switch Skarmory or he can try to predict me(i can anti-predict him, I don't know if i explained that in a good way).
I talk about Kyurem, not KyuremB. Kyurem can learn Focus Blast against Heatran(like Jynx or Regice), a rare move. But i have seen some Focus Blast Kyurem.
I don't talk about predict. Froslass can use Thunderwave, for example, instead of taunt. There are too many possibilities and we can't predict them surely.

"You keep saying that Mega Scizor should be suspected and banned just because of your Ice Mono is having a rough time against it and you're not looking at what the other Steel-types are capable of. Tbh Choice Band Scizor is even more terrifying than Mega Scizor against Ice Mono. I can even name several Pokemon that can even put a huge dent into Ice-types such as Serene Grace Choice Scarf Jirachi. But think outside the box. I don't think you realize that Steel-types doesn't even need the help of Mega Scizor to beat Ice-types. Nothing will change after the ban. Mamoswine has superpower and Weavile has Low Kick. Perfect time for me to switch out of Ferrothorn and into Skarmory and get damage from Rocky Helmet. Remember, switching is involved. Superpower from a Mamoswine is a 2HKO not an OHKO on Ferrothorn. Same thing goes for Weavile with Life Orb."
You continue to talk about predict. It has no sense, in my opinion.
You continue to talk about ChoiceScarfed Steel Pokemon(like Jirachi), when I explained that choice scarf is different from priority.
Choice Scarfed Weavile kills Jirachi. So?
You shouldn't talk about choice scarfed pokemon or predict, in my opinion. Sorry, but i think that. Sorry for my bad behaviour, probably, but i can't understand you.


"Mega Scizor would need to be suspected if there are many issues against other Monotypes not just ice. You can't just say, "Oh Mega Scizor is the most difficult Pokemon to beat with ice and I'm sick of it. I want it to be suspected and banned." When you have may other Steel-types to deal with, especially when you're playing against "good Steel-type players." Even with the ban, Steel-types don't need a mega Pokemon to run over an Ice mono regardless. Overall they don't even need a mega to function better."
But If Scizor Kills every ice pokemon, isn't it unfair?
If you had an ice monotype, would you be enjoyed, seeing your pokemon's death(you should consider that my pokemon can't do anything against priority, ice shard isn't effective against scizor)? Losing because of a Bullet Punch isn't funny.
And ice pokemon can't be considered inferior pokemon.

This is my opinion, i don't want to quarrel.

And choicebanded scizor is more manageable than megascizor, in my opinion. Lapras, or Walrein, can endure the hit.
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 102-120 (25.9 - 30.5%) -- 0.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Look avalugg, for example.

And Scizor has less special defense than megascizor, he's weakier to Hidden power fire.
Look at the differences:
200+ SpA Kyurem Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 332-392 (96.7 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

200+ SpA Kyurem Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Scizor: 276-328 (80.4 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sorry, but I think differently from you.

 

[SirSkit]

First of all, MegaScizor can't be killed with one hit, by a simple hidden power fire. I showed that, before.
And it threaten Walrein with Superpower.

"Not only this but ice is a type with seriously badmatchups and banning scizor will have many bad effects on the metagame, for example bug would be utterly screwed against mega diancie."
No, it isn't true. You forgot Durant, Escavalier...there a lot of Bug\Steel pokemon. But they, instead of Scizor, haven't Bullet punch, haven't a priority move(so, ice pokemon can play and they don't lose without doing anything).
A Durant can kill a Diancie\MegaDiancie. So, bug monotypes aren't damaged by Scizor's ban.
However...nobody give attention to Ice pokemon...but are Bug pokemon more important?
BugMonotype could have Durant or Escavalier, Scizor isn't so necessary.

"Not to mention after it is banned i am almost certain that steel would still absolutely demolish ice, bug will still have a favorable matchup against ice but next to nochance against fairy, and ice would still be bottom usage because types like fighting still destroy it."
1)You can have the possibility to win against steel pokemon, using an ice monotype. It could be difficult, but not impossible(like with Mega-Scizor);
2)Bug can kill fairies not only with Durant(for example), but also with Scolipede or other Bug\Poison pokemon. Because poison is super-effective against fairy;
3)Fighting monotypes are less used than Steel monotypes, and then you can have the possibility to win. Like for Steel, it's difficult, but not impossible.
For example, Froslass isn't damaged by Mach Punch(while, against bullet punch, every pokemon is damaged) and Jynx attacks fighting pokemon supereffectively

When looking into whether something is ban-worthy or not, you really need to look at all the types, instead of just Ice. Sure, I think everyone would agree that Mega Scizor is probably one of Ice's biggest problems, if not THE biggest, but what would banning Mega Scizor accomplish? Like, seriously, Ice not only has one of the worst defensive typings out there, but also one of the smallest pools of viable Pokemon to use. Of course there will be things that can nearly 6-0 it. Banning Pokemon to "save" it is really a lost cause. Unlike Ice, several of the "higher tier" types have a larger pool of Pokemon to use, letting them handle it with more ease. If a single type can't handle it, it wouldn't be fair to force it out of the game based on that alone. Bans should not be based on how it affects a single type.

Again, I'll agree that Mega Scizor just stomps Ice, but is that "unfair"? No. When you look at a type, many of them have Pokemon that trouble them in the same way Mega Scizor does Ice. Psychic hates Mega Sharpedo, Flying with Kyurem-B, Fire with Mega Diancie, Steel with Keldeo / some Garchomp, Poison with Landorus, etc. However, these some of those types are actually considered "higher tier", but it's still not considered "unfair" (as you put it) since Pokemon like Mega Sharpedo, Kyurem-B, Mega Diancie, Keldeo, Garchomp, and Landorus have trouble with other types still and aren't considered "broken" in those matchups. According to your logic, these Pokemon would need to be banned too, and, well, that creates even further problems that bans won't be able to fix.

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

"Okay lets break this down. You're saying that Mega Scizor has priority moves. So does Regular Scizor. There is no actual difference between both Pokemon besides the 100 BST for Mega Scizor and that Regular Scizor can hold items. Even if you have a Rapid Spin Pokemon, I don't see what Delibird can even do besides removing hazards with Defog / Rapid Spin. Cryogonal isn't really much help outside of Hidden Power Fire and support because of its terrible movepool that it has. Cryogonal's terrible defensive stats and typing leaves it to be desired. Also if hazards are already out on the field, you'd have to "switch" into your entry hazard Pokemon. So pretty much Cloyster, Avalugg, and Cryogonal would still be taking passive damage. Why even run Rapid Spin on Cloyster when you should make use of Shell Smash, Skill Link, and its coverage moves that could help you sweep the opposing team? I'm more focused on the more notable Pokemon that are used on Ice that I see through experience."
Cloyster can be used also as a Spiker\Rapid spinner, too.
Scizor has less attack than megascizor, and Avalugg can take some hit and rapid spin.

"No, I haven't forgot that Froslass can learn Taunt because it's a standard move to use on it along with Spikes, Destiny Bond, Frost Breath, Ice Beam, and Thunder Wave. But what really makes you sure that the opponent will have Skarmory stay in on Froslass? For all I know they can just switch out and go into Excadrill anticipating it. Choice Scarf Kyurem-B is common because I run a Naive nature on it with Ice. I can switch out and go into Skarmory or an Air Balloon Heatran to avoid damage."
You talk me about predict, now. These are different situations, my enemy can switch Skarmory or he can try to predict me(i can anti-predict him, I don't know if i explained that in a good way).
I talk about Kyurem, not KyuremB. Kyurem can learn Focus Blast against Heatran(like Jynx or Regice), a rare move. But i have seen some Focus Blast Kyurem.
I don't talk about predict. Froslass can use Thunderwave, for example, instead of taunt. There are too many possibilities and we can't predict them surely.

"You keep saying that Mega Scizor should be suspected and banned just because of your Ice Mono is having a rough time against it and you're not looking at what the other Steel-types are capable of. Tbh Choice Band Scizor is even more terrifying than Mega Scizor against Ice Mono. I can even name several Pokemon that can even put a huge dent into Ice-types such as Serene Grace Choice Scarf Jirachi. But think outside the box. I don't think you realize that Steel-types doesn't even need the help of Mega Scizor to beat Ice-types. Nothing will change after the ban. Mamoswine has superpower and Weavile has Low Kick. Perfect time for me to switch out of Ferrothorn and into Skarmory and get damage from Rocky Helmet. Remember, switching is involved. Superpower from a Mamoswine is a 2HKO not an OHKO on Ferrothorn. Same thing goes for Weavile with Life Orb."
You continue to talk about predict. It has no sense, in my opinion.
You continue to talk about ChoiceScarfed Steel Pokemon(like Jirachi), when I explained that choice scarf is different from priority.
Choice Scarfed Weavile kills Jirachi. So?
You shouldn't talk about choice scarfed pokemon or predict, in my opinion. Sorry, but i think that. Sorry for my bad behaviour, probably, but i can't understand you.


"Mega Scizor would need to be suspected if there are many issues against other Monotypes not just ice. You can't just say, "Oh Mega Scizor is the most difficult Pokemon to beat with ice and I'm sick of it. I want it to be suspected and banned." When you have may other Steel-types to deal with, especially when you're playing against "good Steel-type players." Even with the ban, Steel-types don't need a mega Pokemon to run over an Ice mono regardless. Overall they don't even need a mega to function better."
But If Scizor Kills every ice pokemon, isn't it unfair?
If you had an ice monotype, would you be enjoyed, seeing your pokemon's death(you should consider that my pokemon can't do anything against priority, ice shard isn't effective against scizor)? Losing because of a Bullet Punch isn't funny.
And ice pokemon can't be considered inferior pokemon.

This is my opinion, i don't want to quarrel.

And choicebanded scizor is more manageable than megascizor, in my opinion. Lapras, or Walrein, can endure the hit.
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 102-120 (25.9 - 30.5%) -- 0.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Look avalugg, for example.

And Scizor has less special defense than megascizor, he's weakier to Hidden power fire.
Look at the differences:
200+ SpA Kyurem Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Scizor: 332-392 (96.7 - 114.2%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

200+ SpA Kyurem Hidden Power Fire vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Scizor: 276-328 (80.4 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Sorry, but I think differently from you.

I've stated my points and Steel-types don't need Mega Scizor to annihilate ice. and prediction is key because Pokemon is a turn-based strategy game. Predicting and anticipating an opponent's moves definitely ends up becoming the game changer on many occasions.

I know you think differently and we can't help you in terms of your Ice problems with Mega Scizor. If you have that much trouble against it, then I suggest looking at a different type then. Mega Scizor isn't centralizing enough to be suspected / banned.

 

[Purply]

When looking into whether something is ban-worthy or not, you really need to look at all the types, instead of just Ice. Sure, I think everyone would agree that Mega Scizor is probably one of Ice's biggest problems, if not THE biggest, but what would banning Mega Scizor accomplish? Like, seriously, Ice not only has one of the worst defensive typings out there, but also one of the smallest pools of viable Pokemon to use. Of course there will be things that can nearly 6-0 it. Banning Pokemon to "save" it is really a lost cause. Unlike Ice, several of the "higher tier" types have a larger pool of Pokemon to use, letting them handle it with more ease. If a single type can't handle it, it wouldn't be fair to force it out of the game based on that alone. Bans should not be based on how it affects a single type.

Again, I'll agree that Mega Scizor just stomps Ice, but is that "unfair"? No. When you look at a type, many of them have Pokemon that trouble them in the same way Mega Scizor does Ice. Psychic hates Mega Sharpedo, Flying with Kyurem-B, Fire with Mega Diancie, Steel with Keldeo / some Garchomp, Poison with Landorus, etc. However, these some of those types are actually considered "higher tier", but it's still not considered "unfair" (as you put it) since Pokemon like Mega Sharpedo, Kyurem-B, Mega Diancie, Keldeo, Garchomp, and Landorus have trouble with other types still and aren't considered "broken" in those matchups. According to your logic, these Pokemon would need to be banned too, and, well, that creates even further problems that bans won't be able to fix.

SirSkit, i'm agree that every type has its threatening pokemon, but MegaScizor is different for the priority.
Sorry if i repeat the same things, but MegaSharpedo or another pokemon has a great speed, but it hasn't any priority move.
Moreover, MegaSharpedo has a lot of Weaknesses, while Scizor has one weakness(and Ice pokemon can't learn a real fire move).
There are some difference.
Sorry, but i believe that you didn't understand me, maybe because I can't explain in a good way.
I talked about priority, not speed.

I'm sad about my ice pokemon, they can't fight, they can't do a move with mega-scizor. But if it isn't unfair, in your opinion...ok. I've just asked why MegaScizor isn't banned from monotype.

To Misaka:
"I've stated my points and Steel-types don't need Mega Scizor to annihilate ice."
With MegaScizor Ice can't fight, can't do any move because of priority. Winning is impossible.
Without megascizor, winning is difficult, not 100% impossible.

Good afternoon. Thank you for your patience.

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

Scizor has less attack than megascizor, and Avalugg can take some hit and rapid spin.

Less attack doesn't really matter when you're given the advantage to hold items.

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 264-312 (65.1 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 524-618 (129.3 - 152.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO


252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 307-361 (75.8 - 89.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 56 HP / 0 Def Kyurem: 611-720 (150.8 - 177.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

One last thing here. The only advantage that regular Scizor has over its mega is that it can hold items. Here is an example of calcs on an Ice Pokemon.

 

[DoW]

Priority != Broken. Lucario has Vacuum Wave, a priority move that's super effective against Ice, but isn't broken. Psychic users have to outplay Bisharp's Sucker Punch all the time, while Dragonite's Extreme Speed may be strong but doesn't sweep teams very often.

The way to play around priority is to use a mon that can tank a hit and then KO back, and with Scizor's 4x weakness this is, while still difficult, easier than against some mons.


When all's said and done, Mega Scizor is not going to be banned. Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[Purply]

But with Life orb Scizor lost some hp, megascizor is like a lifeorbScizor without recoil.
Megascizor is stronger than Scizor, in my opinion.

 

[SirSkit]

SirSkit, i'm agree that every type has its threatening pokemon, but MegaScizor is different for the priority.
Sorry if i repeat the same things, but MegaSharpedo or another pokemon has a great speed, but it hasn't any priority move.
Moreover, MegaSharpedo has a lot of Weaknesses, while Scizor has one weakness(and Ice pokemon can't learn a real fire move).
There are some difference.
Sorry, but i believe that you didn't understand me, maybe because I can't explain in a good way.
I talked about priority, not speed.

I'm sad about my ice pokemon, they can't fight, they can't do a move with mega-scizor. But if it isn't unfair, in your opinion...ok. I've just asked why MegaScizor isn't banned from monotype.

To Misaka:
"I've stated my points and Steel-types don't need Mega Scizor to annihilate ice."
With MegaScizor Ice can't fight, can't do any move because of priority. Winning is impossible.
Without megascizor, winning is difficult, not 100% impossible.

Good afternoon. Thank you for your patience.

The thing is, I acknowledge the fact that you're saying that Ice is ripped through by Mega Scizor moreso than Psychic is by Mega Sharpedo (arguably), but you're missing my main point. Your main arguments are just how it destroys Ice alone. I'm saying that bans are unhealthy for the meta if you base it solely on how one type deals with it. Ok, yeah, Ice can't do much about Mega Scizor, but what about the 17 other types? That's what you need to ask yourself before carrying on with this discussion.

When all's said and done, Mega Scizor is not going to be banned. Thank you and have a nice day.

^^^

 

[Purply]

Priority != Broken. Lucario has Vacuum Wave, a priority move that's super effective against Ice, but isn't broken. Psychic users have to outplay Bisharp's Sucker Punch all the time, while Dragonite's Extreme Speed may be strong but doesn't sweep teams very often.

The way to play around priority is to use a mon that can tank a hit and then KO back, and with Scizor's 4x weakness this is, while still difficult, easier than against some mons.


When all's said and done, Mega Scizor is not going to be banned. Thank you and have a nice day.

Thanks. However, Vacuum Wave lacks of abilities like Technician and it's a fight move. It doesn't work against Froslass. And it's a special move. It doesn't work very well against Regice, for example.

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

Thanks. However, Vacuum Wave lacks of abilities like Technician and it's a fight move. It doesn't work against Froslass. And it's a special move. It doesn't work very well against Regice, for example.

Nasty Plot Vacuum Wave exists. Also, Lucario can learn Swords Dance and Bullet Punch as well.

 

[Purply]

The thing is, I acknowledge the fact that you're saying that Ice is ripped through by Mega Scizor moreso than Psychic is by Mega Sharpedo (arguably), but you're missing my main point. Your main arguments are just how it destroys Ice alone. I'm saying that bans are unhealthy for the meta if you base it solely on how one type deals with it. Ok, yeah, Ice can't do much about Mega Scizor, but what about the 17 other types? That's what you need to ask yourself before carrying on with this discussion.

^^^

Which consequences could have the 17 other types, sorry?
There is Durant, there is escavalier...Scizor isn't a unique pokemon, in my opinion.
I know that it won't be banned, in fact I said "Good afternoon, thank you for your patience". ;)

(And against bisharp there is Will o wisp, for example. Mew can learn it. And no, no ice pokemon can learn Wow, against Scizor)

so, Let's stop to talk. Mega-Scizor won't be banned. Ok.

Nasty Plot Vacuum Wave exists. Also, Lucario can learn Swords Dance and Bullet Punch as well.

Lucario has less attack than Scizor;
Lucario has more weaknesses than Scizor;
Lucario hasn't Technician.
Scizor is bulkier thank Lucario.

70\70\70 against 70\100\80
And MegaScizor? 70\140\100

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

(And against bisharp there is Will o wisp, for example. Mew can learn it. And no, no ice pokemon can learn Wow, against Scizor)

Lum Berry is used and can go for a Knock Off on Mew.

Lucario has less attack than Scizor;
Lucario has more weaknesses than Scizor;
Lucario hasn't Technician.
Scizor is bulkier thank Lucario.

70\70\70 against 70\100\80

Not talking about Scizor. This is what Lucario can do towards ice is what I'm talking about.

 

[Purply]

"Lum Berry is used and can go for a Knock Off on Mew."
This is one of the possible moveset. Like before, you are talking about possibilities. But Psychic Mono has the possibility to burn, for example, Bisharp, outspeeding and giving ohko to it.
If bisharp use Knock Off, Mew will use Drain Punch, for example, according to your reasoning. There are a lot of possibilities.

"Not talking about Scizor. This is what Lucario can do towards ice is what I'm talking about."
I compare Scizor and Lucario, because Lucario, differently from Scizor, is more counterable.

Mamoswine, for example, kills it in a hit. Scizor, instead, is stronger than Lucario.

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

"Lum Berry is used and can go for a Knock Off on Mew."
This is one of the possible moveset. Like before, we are talking about possibilities. But Psychic Mono has the possibility to burn, for example, Bisharp, and ohko it.
If bisharp use Knock Off, Mew will use Drain Punch, for example, according to your reasoning. There are a lot of possibilities.

"Not talking about Scizor. This is what Lucario can do towards ice is what I'm talking about."
I compare Scizor and Lucario, because Lucario, differently from Scizor, is more counterable.

But Lum Berry is still used on Bisharp is it not? http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html

Tbh I would say look through the sprite gallery and see what moves and items are being used. Why use Drain Punch Mew?

I know that it isn't fair for Mega Scizor to demolish ice mono (same thing goes for regular scizor). Trust me, not everything will be in people's favor of wanting something suspected or banned. This is no surprise for ice types and I feel bad for them they can't handle certain types. If a type isn't working out for you, idk what all we can do for you besides trying out for another monotype team. Please learn that other types are having just as much trouble dealing with a Pokemon from another type as Ice has to deal with Scizor period.

Please understand that the council is doing their best to make this a healthy metagame.

 

[Purply]

Mine is an example.
And then, I have seen some Aura Sphere Mew, honestly.
A lot of psychic pokemon can learn fight moves against dark pokemon.

 

[MANNAT]

The Mono Steel bugs that you listed both get popped by Mega Diancie's HP Fire, so it would still shit on steel mono without MZor. Purply

 

[truedrew]

Im glad that monotype as a metagame/community can move forward now seeing some major changes
Psychic will have tough choices to make ( gard v gallade) as if gallade is taken there is pressure on psychic vs dark as mega sableye tears psychic a new one without garde. Although reg gardevoir with moon blast could also put in more work as healing wish + trace is bae

Lastly mega scizor is not broken like omg ;~; the thing is in a tier like monotype Types have to adapt around S ranked pokemon. For example, mega scizor vs normal can be again in lieu of ice v scizor due to the fact that it can set up on the walls. To mitigate this many normal pory2's now run Foul play>status move as in general it helps as it is a better utilit move. The fact that people fail to realise that POKEMON ARE S RANKED FOR A REASON really irks me. I mean flying runs knock off so that it is not bodied by normals defensive core. Similarly ice runs things like rotom frost/wallrein to take on steel/mega scizor better. The fact is innovation is needed to keep your type fresh and viable and because people fail to see this they just bash post "OMG TIS MON SHITS ON A TYPE I USED TWICE CUS YOLO" and ruin this thread. If you do not know what a type can do vs a threat do not rehash others arguments it ruins this thread.

Monotype should have a very set in stone philosophy which outlines what the tier should expect.

I feel that promoting "type equality" drives this community apart as we all fail to understand that Certain types will always be more viable than others. For example when kyu-w and skymin were reintroduced to promote grass/ice usage, the ladder/forum turned into mindless bashing of kyu-w and skymin and about how they were so OP so based pls ban level mons. The root we failed to address was that it was due to nagging for type equality that they were reintroduced and the fact that they were re-banned just goes to show that because originally we promoted equality, we got in a shamble.

TL;DR/ CONCLUSION

> Stop complaining mindlessly about certain types being worse.
>Monotype philosophy needs a huge revamp/update
>Psychic is now arguably the best type in the metagame
>Do not fight for type equality if you are not really bothered about a particular type.


Edit 2: Tagging Purply and littlelucario to stop posting one liners >.< it just floods the thread and the notifications are ANNOYING AS A FULL FLYING STALL WITH MALARIA AND ZARD X AND ZAPDOS AND SKARM AND ALL THOSE LOVLIES !!

 

[Purply]

But Lum Berry is still used on Bisharp is it not? http://monotypeps.weebly.com/sprite-gallery.html

Tbh I would say look through the sprite gallery and see what moves and items are being used. Why use Drain Punch Mew?

I know that it isn't far for Mega Scizor to demolish ice mono (same thing goes for regular scizor). Trust me, not everything will be in people's favor of wanting something suspected or banned. This is no surprise for ice types and I feel bad for them they can't handle certain types. If a type isn't working out for you, idk what all we can do for you besides trying out for another monotype team. Please learn that other types are having just as much trouble dealing with a Pokemon from another type as Ice has to deal with Scizor period.

Please understand that the council is doing their best to make this a healthy metagame.

I believe that Ice type will be always considered bad, i believe that it isn't a simple period, a Scizor period.
I don't judge Council's work, I simply asked why Scizorite isn't banned.

The Mono Steel bugs that you listed both get popped by Mega Diancie's HP Fire, so it would still shit on steel mono without MZor. Purply

Durant can outspeed MegaDiancie, Littlelucario, with choice scarf. Megadiancie, instead, can't use a Choicescarf. Bugs can Fight against Fairy pokemon.

Look, Escavalier survives, instead, and it kills Mega-Diancie.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 174 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 200-236 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

I believe that Ice type will be always considered bad, i believe that it isn't a simple period, a Scizor period.
I don't judge Council's work, I simply asked why Scizorite isn't banned.

Haha there you have it. Ice Mono is just bad lol. I'd blame it on GameFreak for making it a terrible typing defensively.

 

[Purply]

In fact I said:
"I believe that pokemon's creators hate ice pokemon"
xD

 

[MANNAT]

Durant can outspeed MegaDiancie, Littlelucario, with choice scarf. Megadiancie, instead, can't use a Choicescarf. Bugs can Fight against Fairy pokemon.

Look, Escavalier survives, instead, and it kills Mega-Diancie.
252 SpA Mega Diancie Hidden Power Fire vs. 174 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Escavalier: 200-236 (61.7 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Running an item just for one mon is the very definition of overcentralyzing, and is why MZor should be left on bug mono.

 

[Purply]

I didn't understand your message.
There are some possibilities to kill mega-diance(for a bug mono), also without scizor.
Instead, there aren't any possibilities to kill mega-scizor(for an ice mono)

 

[thesecondbest]

Some types just suck. And there's nothing we can do about that according to the current tiering philosophy. Electric is terrible since it can only get rocks with stunfisk and most mons have the same role - fast special attackers. Rock sucks because it has too many weaknesses even though Diancie, TTar, and Terrakion are great pokemon in OU and their other types. Ice also sucks because it has a lot of weaknesses, and Poison and Grass struggle vs the top 3 types (Bug Psychic Flying) without even beating notable other types. There isn't much that can be done under the current tiering philosophy. But if a mon beats a lot of types, like Zard X vs Electric, Grass, Steel, Bug, and more, then it will get banned. So stop complaining because you lose to Scizor. Unfortunately, Ice is not the only type that other people use, so Scizor isn't broken on the grand scheme of things.