You always have to sac something to sleep with Darkrai, unless you're using something like sleep talk Ho-oh (which can't switch in if rocks are up by the way - this happens often considering Darkrai is found on HO teams and Darkrai will usually be coming in right after the hazard setter). Yveltal is still the best Darkrai check in the game.
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ORAS Ubers Viability Ranking Thread (Final ORAS Update - Post #1164)
- Thread starter Nayrz
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Klefki
The best Darkrai check is actually Primeape.
Not sure if you've ever played the tier or not... I'll just assume trolling and be happy. :)
Forgot Klefki. You have a point.
Klefki is wrecked by LO heat wave from Yveltal and taunt (on the switch) from Mewtwo, so AV Yveltal still has a great niche and I stand by it.
dude shut up
Stop posting about AV yveltal please. An argument can me made that Yveltal is one of the "better" AV users in this tier (which isn't saying much) because Oblivion Wing grants it recovery and it can cheese out random Pokemon like mixed RP Primal Groudon, but I would still never, ever use this thing for the reasons Freeroamer stated. I have a hard enough time justifying a standard yveltal set on my teams...the next post propagating Assault Vest Yveltal will be receiving an infraction for Christmas.
Currently #3 on the ladder but thx
Not really:
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Darkrai Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Diancie: 242-285 (79.6 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(242, 244, 247, 250, 252, 256, 259, 261, 264, 266, 270, 273, 276, 278, 281, 285)
A little bit of chip damage and Diancie is not checking Darkrai.
I'm going to assume these posts get deleted so no need to respond to this.
"Currently #3 on the ladder but thx"
My washed up ass was #2 about a month ago (FUCK u Pohjis for being so far ahead of me -_-) and trickroom and I regularly peaked the BW ladder with Stunfisk and Gyarados, amongst other mons. Being #3 on the ladder means you're not new to the tier, but hardly means you can throw around that peak as a reason for people to listen to your argument. Getting a high ladder score is not difficult for anyone with experience.
"A little bit of chip damage and Diancie is not checking Darkrai."
Diancie is a check, not a counter. Diancie will always beat Darkrai 1-1 unless you're using the rare HP Steel, but it can lose on the switch if Darkrai uses either Nasty Plot or Thunder / Sludge Bomb. There's no such thing in ORAS Ubers as a viable Darkrai counter.
My washed up ass was #2 about a month ago (FUCK u Pohjis for being so far ahead of me -_-) and trickroom and I regularly peaked the BW ladder with Stunfisk and Gyarados, amongst other mons. Being #3 on the ladder means you're not new to the tier, but hardly means you can throw around that peak as a reason for people to listen to your argument. Getting a high ladder score is not difficult for anyone with experience.
"A little bit of chip damage and Diancie is not checking Darkrai."
Diancie is a check, not a counter. Diancie will always beat Darkrai 1-1 unless you're using the rare HP Steel, but it can lose on the switch if Darkrai uses either Nasty Plot or Thunder / Sludge Bomb. There's no such thing in ORAS Ubers as a viable Darkrai counter.
Now who's the one bragging about their ladder score? I'm merely responding to people saying I have no experience. No need to get upset.
This is exactly my point. There is no Darkrai counter, which is why I like AV Yveltal.
Ok, then you can be close minded and the thread discussion can be about the merits of whether Arceus Flying should be C rank or C- rank. I came up with something useful that solves a problem for my teams and I am sharing it. You do not have to take part in that.
Well now you've pissed me off so fuck it I will respond.
1) Assault vest Yveltal is not a good assault vest user. Almost all special attackers can hit it super effectively (Darkrai with thunder, Kyogre with Ice beam/thunder, Xerneas lol) and only really serves as a check to itself, which it is still not a good check for because it cannot outdamage itself and will take a tonne from attacks such as Oblivion wing and wont recover enough.
2) Specifically with Darkrai, a fair chunk of them among the tour community run Thunder over sludge bomb, which straight OHKOs Yveltal at +2 unless you are max hp and max spdef at the same time, in which case it will still OHKO after Stealth Rock.
3) Yveltal without a life orb isn't strong enough from an offensive standpoint to do its usual job.
4) Assault vest in general is a terrible item because you have no power boost and cannot use supportive moves. In this metagame, everything needs to be as strong as it can be, and without roost utility pokemon such as Yveltal cannot live for long enough.
5) Assault vest users are also terrible Darkrai checks because they can just be Slept and then they cant do anything but be Setup fodder for it.
All this basically comes down to: Assault Vest Yveltal is not a good Yveltal.
1) Assault vest Yveltal is not a good assault vest user. Almost all special attackers can hit it super effectively (Darkrai with thunder, Kyogre with Ice beam/thunder, Xerneas lol) and only really serves as a check to itself, which it is still not a good check for because it cannot outdamage itself and will take a tonne from attacks such as Oblivion wing and wont recover enough.
2) Specifically with Darkrai, a fair chunk of them among the tour community run Thunder over sludge bomb, which straight OHKOs Yveltal at +2 unless you are max hp and max spdef at the same time, in which case it will still OHKO after Stealth Rock.
3) Yveltal without a life orb isn't strong enough from an offensive standpoint to do its usual job.
4) Assault vest in general is a terrible item because you have no power boost and cannot use supportive moves. In this metagame, everything needs to be as strong as it can be, and without roost utility pokemon such as Yveltal cannot live for long enough.
5) Assault vest users are also terrible Darkrai checks because they can just be Slept and then they cant do anything but be Setup fodder for it.
All this basically comes down to: Assault Vest Yveltal is not a good Yveltal.
My point wasn't to brag; in fact it was to do the opposite. If I can get to #2 on the ladder despite being a very average ORAS Ubers builder at the moment, then it isn't very hard to get high on the ladder and should never be brought up in a discussion thread to give an example of your mastery or whatever. Playing skill ≠ metagame knowledge anyway.
I already handed out an infraction. Please stop talking about Assault Vest Yveltal, a difference in opinion is welcomed so long you don't bring up something completely terrible and a Pokemon that reliably checks nothing and performs poorly vs. the majority of the metagame qualifies as terrible. Merry Christmas!
I already handed out an infraction. Please stop talking about Assault Vest Yveltal, a difference in opinion is welcomed so long you don't bring up something completely terrible and a Pokemon that reliably checks nothing and performs poorly vs. the majority of the metagame qualifies as terrible. Merry Christmas!
virgin
There are several reasons why AV Yveltal is generally not a good idea in this specific metagame. The biggest reason is perhaps its lack of power. With only AV (and not another item such as Life Orb), Yveltal struggles to muscle past common Pokemon such as Support Waterceus, Klefki, and Xerneas. Simply put, AV Yveltal is too weak to do any real damage to the opposing team, losing its niche as a hole-puncher. Secondly, AV restricts the use of moves such as Taunt. Taunt help with getting past Klefki, preventing a Defog (on switch-in), and in general is a useful move to have. With regards to your contention that the use of Assault Vest "counters" Darkrai, I wholeheartedly disagree. First, let me loosely define "counter." A counter is something that can switch into the aggressor (in this Darkrai) and can, in general, tank any of its moves and threaten it back. In this light, AV Yveltal is most definitely not a counter to Darkrai. If Yveltal switches into Darkrai, it can potentially be put to sleep by Dark Void, thus neutering its efficacy as a counter. If you do decide to sack another Pokemon to sleep, this means that Yveltal has not prevented Darkrai from doing its job, which in turn means that AV Yveltal is not a counter to Darkrai. However, this argument is based largely on semantics. It is true that AV Yveltal is a CHECK to Darkrai. However, much better checks exist (better in that they preform roles other than checking Darkrai). The aforementioned Mega-Diancie is a good check to Darkrai, as it resists its main STAB and can threaten it back with Moonblast. Diancie also provides some neat functions with Magic Bounce and is commonly featured on Sun Balance. Sleep Talk Ho-Oh is also a good check to Darkrai, as it beats virtually any set (aside from the incredibly rare Taunt variants) while simultaneously threatening half the tier with Brave Bird+Sacred Fire.
tl;dr: AV Yveltal fails in its prescribed functions and fails to do anything of note.
There are several reasons why AV Yveltal is generally not a good idea in this specific metagame. The biggest reason is perhaps its lack of power. With only AV (and not another item such as Life Orb), Yveltal struggles to muscle past common Pokemon such as Support Waterceus, Klefki, and Xerneas. Simply put, AV Yveltal is too weak to do any real damage to the opposing team, losing its niche as a hole-puncher. Secondly, AV restricts the use of moves such as Taunt. Taunt help with getting past Klefki, preventing a Defog (on switch-in), and in general is a useful move to have. With regards to your contention that the use of Assault Vest "counters" Darkrai, I wholeheartedly disagree. First, let me loosely define "counter." A counter is something that can switch into the aggressor (in this Darkrai) and can, in general, tank any of its moves and threaten it back. In this light, AV Yveltal is most definitely not a counter to Darkrai. If Yveltal switches into Darkrai, it can potentially be put to sleep by Dark Void, thus neutering its efficacy as a counter. If you do decide to sack another Pokemon to sleep, this means that Yveltal has not prevented Darkrai from doing its job, which in turn means that AV Yveltal is not a counter to Darkrai. However, this argument is based largely on semantics. It is true that AV Yveltal is a CHECK to Darkrai. However, much better checks exist (better in that they preform roles other than checking Darkrai). The aforementioned Mega-Diancie is a good check to Darkrai, as it resists its main STAB and can threaten it back with Moonblast. Diancie also provides some neat functions with Magic Bounce and is commonly featured on Sun Balance. Sleep Talk Ho-Oh is also a good check to Darkrai, as it beats virtually any set (aside from the incredibly rare Taunt variants) while simultaneously threatening half the tier with Brave Bird+Sacred Fire.
tl;dr: AV Yveltal fails in its prescribed functions and fails to do anything of note.
Sweep in order to be fair, since you have already infracted me, you should infract all of these people as well. If you don't, you're proving that you only infracted me because you don't like that I disagree with you.
"the next post propagating Assault Vest Yveltal will be receiving an infraction for Christmas"
They are not propagating it, rather explaining to you why the set fails on so many levels. Therefore, they are not breaking any rules o_o
edit: to be clear, propagate means to actively promote something. you are promoting the use of AV Yveltal; they are not
They are not propagating it, rather explaining to you why the set fails on so many levels. Therefore, they are not breaking any rules o_o
edit: to be clear, propagate means to actively promote something. you are promoting the use of AV Yveltal; they are not
Oh, that's even worse. "We're allowed to express our viewpoint but he's not allowed to say anything in response." I'm pretty sure Hitler followed those rules.
While I'm not Sweep, I believe he is infracting you more for your argumentative and, quite frankly, rather rude nature. If you had presented your opinions about AV Yveltal in a more pleasant manner, I'm almost certain that he would not be as inclined to hand out an infraction, regardless of the terrible nature of the set.
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