Well they could do a "Omega version" like they do for Smash 4 stages for those who want standard Wifi play but a different background.
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(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon
- Thread starter BriarRose
- Start date
Well they could do a "Omega version" like they do for Smash 4 stages for those who want standard Wifi play but a different background.
Speaking as someone who didn't own a 16-bit system until it was so out of date that my mom got it for $30 NEW at Toys 'R Us* and as someone with reasonable expectations of the world when it comes to software compatibility, please be quiet. You are embarrassing yourself with an astonishing level of immaturity. I mean, I was worried when Generation V was coming to an end and I thought I wouldn't be able to get Generation VI due to a personal lack of a 3DS (I was lucky enough to get one from as a gift from a cousin shortly before the announcement of X and Y**), but I wasn't getting angry at Nintendo.
*It was a Genesis, by the way.
**And by shortly, I mean about a week.
I fail to see how this is a retort when the Genesis has some awesome games that still hold up to modern standards. I'd kill to get a hold of some older systems like that or the SNES for $30 or less, because they came from a great era for gaming. Then again, I'm probably just a hipster.
But yeah, complaining that Pokemon is only on the 3DS is pretty pointless. It's Nintendo's handheld console and they don't exactly have to continue to support outdated ones.
Yes, I was immature in that statement where I spouted about a video game platform. Nintendo can't run games off of everything, and it actually helps them sell a new system when people have to buy it to play the new game. Props to them for their business strategies, along with version-exclusives and Victini.
I'm not saying that the Genesis is a bad system at all*. I LOVE that thing I mean, the first game I had for it was a three pack that had Sonic 1, 2, and Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine and it was awesome. And I love retro games. What I am saying is that it can take me a very long time to get a system, usually shortly before or after it's replacement comes out. I mean here's my record:
NES: Well, this was the only video game console my family had until about 1998 (THEN we got the Genesis), but we got it circa 1990, a few years before I was even born.
Genesis: Again, it was so out of date thanks to the release of 64-bit systems that my mom got it at Toys 'R Us new for dirt cheap.
N64: I got it Christmas 2000. By the next Christmas, the Gamecube was released (I remember thanks to the year's subscription I got for Nintendo Power...that and remembering that Crystal, the GBC version of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone, and Paper Mario were covered, all 2001 releases).
PS2: I got it Christmas 2007, the month after the PS3 came out (I actually got the PS1 that previous March!).
Wii: A week after I got it (late May 2011), the Wii U was announced.
GBA: Christmas 2003, the next year, the DS was out.
DS: December 2008...actually was pretty good as it took two years for the 3DS to come out.
3DS: December 2012...again, pretty good.
I've also have other systems (PS1, original Xbox, even an old Game Gear), but those are all second hand as well as plenty of other DSes and a second 3DS. And two GBCs and a non-functional Game Boy Pocket.
Sorry, I got WAY off topic there.
*I think the SNES is better as there are more great exclusives than the Genesis (Super Metroid kicks Sonic 2's ass), though, again, both are terrific systems with terrific libraries of games.
Well there's the 2DS, I think it's like 130.
*Sees talk about Genesis, remembers happy childhood memories*
BTW Emerald Hill > Green Hill
You can get a refurb of a 2DS for $60 on Nintendo's website. I went there when my 3DS's hinge broke out of warranty and I realize it would cost just a little more to get a refurb one ($100) than for them to repair it ($80) and I wasn't guaranteed to get my special edition back.
Continuing my Miltank themed posts (as I am trying to figure out a team that can use Miltank in a higher tier cause I'm bored), I learned something that I found disappointing: Miltank doesn't learn Rapid Spin. I think the reason this annoys me is that I associate the move Rollout with two Pokémon: Miltank and Donphan. Since I also associate Rapid Spin with Donphan, I can help but feel that Miltank should be able to use it as well, but it doesn't.
Actually, thinking about it, I'm double sad since that would give Miltank something unique: the only Rapid Spinner with Scrappy. Finally, a way to get rid of entry hazards without worrying about Spin Blockers or getting rid of your own hazards!
EDIT: Wait, DELIBIRD can learn Rapid Spin? And Miltank can't? WHY?
Actually, thinking about it, I'm double sad since that would give Miltank something unique: the only Rapid Spinner with Scrappy. Finally, a way to get rid of entry hazards without worrying about Spin Blockers or getting rid of your own hazards!
EDIT: Wait, DELIBIRD can learn Rapid Spin? And Miltank can't? WHY?
The shiny lock is a huge annoyance to me, too. Lack of post game and difficulty in Gen 6 is painful. By painful, I mean like... Lysandre only having FOUR Pokemon. The Champion is so pathetic that even in the anime, her main strategy is her Gardevoir teleport-spamming.
IVs are a pain in the ass. EVs are fair enough. Takes time, but you can get those in. IVs are impossible to get fully. People have to waste their times just to get them right. I despise this mechanic so much, and they should only be determining things like Hidden Power. They shouldn't be affecting stats. I guess there's the occasion where lowering them is useful for going first in Trick Room or reducing Foul Play damage. But the majority of the time, it's so fucking tedious. I don't even bother with them.
IVs are a pain in the ass. EVs are fair enough. Takes time, but you can get those in. IVs are impossible to get fully. People have to waste their times just to get them right. I despise this mechanic so much, and they should only be determining things like Hidden Power. They shouldn't be affecting stats. I guess there's the occasion where lowering them is useful for going first in Trick Room or reducing Foul Play damage. But the majority of the time, it's so fucking tedious. I don't even bother with them.
My personal opinion is that IVs are a necessary evil to make every wild Pokemon a little different. The fact that they have to be exploited for competitive advantage is, well, unfortunate - but really, I like the way IVs add realism to the Pokemon world by functioning like genetics.
My peeves: move names.
- Retaliate and Revenge should get name swaps. I retaliate against an opponent that hurt me, I take revenge against an opponent that knocked out my teammate.
- Tail Whip is the name for a decent-powered Normal move, not a stat-lowering one. Why not Tail Wag?
- Outrage sounds like a Special move. Rampage suits it better.
- Dual Chop sounds like some random Fighting-type move. Dual Smash would work better.
I dislike how easy it is in Gen 6 for the E4 and Champion but, at the same time, it is sorta a blessing because with the majority of the other games I couldn't even beat the E4.
On another note:
Because Delibird is OP in Gen 6, they consider him to be uber!!This is the same for many ther gimmicky pokemon and it is why Showdown is outdated.
On another note:
Because Delibird is OP in Gen 6, they consider him to be uber!!This is the same for many ther gimmicky pokemon and it is why Showdown is outdated.
Spinning In Their Barn: I always took that Rollout was the Pokemon rolling (whether curling up or on its side) and gathering stones as it rolls. It doesn't need to roll fast to do that (which could explain the imperfect Accuracy) and it does more damage because it gathers more stones and becomes bigger, not because it rolls faster. Rapid Spin however has the Pokemon able to spin around at high speeds. Yes, in the anime they showed Miltank curling up and rapidly spinning, however in the Stadium games if I recall correctly they show Miltank using Rollout by rolling on its side. For the most part I can see how most of the Pokemon that learn Rapid Spin can, well, spin rapidly... except for Delibird. I have a feeling that's sort of a "throw the dog a bone" thing then them going "well obviously this Pokemon would learn Rapid Spin because...".
Should Miltank learn Rapid Spin? Hmm, well if Delibird can, sure, why not. It'll probably be as an Egg Move or Move Tutor though, can't see a Miltank naturally learning it as those udders don't look very aerodynamic.
Dual Chop Action: Well Dual Chop is sort of the Axex's family Signature Move so it makes sense in terms of them (though other Pokemon learn it, including Fighting-types who focus on martial arts like karate). Though I don't see how it being called Dual Smash makes it any more Dragon-type. Honestly you can say any Dragon-type move that doesn't have "dragon" in its name doesn't sound like a Dragon-type move. Dual Chop sounds like a Fighting-type move, Outrage Dark-type, Roar of Time Rock-type, Spacial Rend Psychic-type, and Twister Flying-type. Though I'm sure you can make a whole list of moves that sound like they could be mistaken for another type:
Fire: Explosion, Self-Destruct, Morning Sun, Smokescreen, Solar Beam, Haze
Dark: Fake Out, Frustration, Glare, Mean Look, Swagger, Revenge, Astonish (note a lot of Ghost-type moves sound like they could be Dark-type moves, like those that start with "shadow"), Doom Desire, Imprison, Outrage
Electric: Flash, Signal Beam, Tail Glow, Confuse Ray, Light Screen, Light of Ruin
Psychic: Foresight, Lucky Chant (or Fairy), Mind Reader, Psyche Up, Aura Sphere, Detect, Origin Pulse, Spacial Rend
Steel: Guillotine (though in Japan it would probably be Bug since its called Pincer "Guillotine"), Lock-On, Swords Dance, Techno Blast, Sacred Sword, Secret Sword, Mirror Move (only in English, called "Parrot Mimicry" in Japan which makes more sense), Spikes, Pin Missile, X-Scissor, Spiky Shield, Magnet Rise, Magnetic Flux, Luster Purge, Mirror Coat, Reflect
Ghost: Pain Split, Perish Song, Bone Club, Bone Rush, Bonemerang, Leech Life, Will-O-Wisp (but Fire makes sense too), Eerie Impulse
Flying: Razor Wind, Whirlwind, Vacuum Wave, Thousand Arrows, Silver Wind, U-turn, Twister
Poison: Spit Up
Fighting: Strength, Work Up, Smack Down (or Normal, maybe even Flying), Guard Split, Guard Swap, Dual Chop
Grass: Sweet Scent, Powder, Rage Powder, Flower Shield
Fairy: Attract, Wish, Healing Wish, Heart Stamp, Lunar Dance, Magic Coat, Magic Room
Rock: Rock Smash, Precipice Blades, Roar of Time
Normal: Chatter, Head Smash, Rollout, Wide Guard, Attack Order, Defend Order, Fury Cutter, Heal Order, Twineedle, Lick, Withdraw, Energy Ball, Power Whip (or Dark), Nuzzle, Agility, Rest, Role Play, Synchronoise, Disarming Voice
Dragon: Dragon Ascent
Water: Thousand Waves, Giga Drain, Mega Drain, Mist Ball, Mist, Misty Terrain
Ground: Steamroller, Geomancy
Bug: Horn Leech
Final Fun Fact: Dual Chop originated first as a TCG Move... as a move for Machop.
New Complaint: I kind of wish that the Gen V & VI Elite Four would raise in difficulty as you beat each member. Would it take that much more time to raise their Pokemon levels a bit?
Should Miltank learn Rapid Spin? Hmm, well if Delibird can, sure, why not. It'll probably be as an Egg Move or Move Tutor though, can't see a Miltank naturally learning it as those udders don't look very aerodynamic.
Dual Chop Action: Well Dual Chop is sort of the Axex's family Signature Move so it makes sense in terms of them (though other Pokemon learn it, including Fighting-types who focus on martial arts like karate). Though I don't see how it being called Dual Smash makes it any more Dragon-type. Honestly you can say any Dragon-type move that doesn't have "dragon" in its name doesn't sound like a Dragon-type move. Dual Chop sounds like a Fighting-type move, Outrage Dark-type, Roar of Time Rock-type, Spacial Rend Psychic-type, and Twister Flying-type. Though I'm sure you can make a whole list of moves that sound like they could be mistaken for another type:
Fire: Explosion, Self-Destruct, Morning Sun, Smokescreen, Solar Beam, Haze
Dark: Fake Out, Frustration, Glare, Mean Look, Swagger, Revenge, Astonish (note a lot of Ghost-type moves sound like they could be Dark-type moves, like those that start with "shadow"), Doom Desire, Imprison, Outrage
Electric: Flash, Signal Beam, Tail Glow, Confuse Ray, Light Screen, Light of Ruin
Psychic: Foresight, Lucky Chant (or Fairy), Mind Reader, Psyche Up, Aura Sphere, Detect, Origin Pulse, Spacial Rend
Steel: Guillotine (though in Japan it would probably be Bug since its called Pincer "Guillotine"), Lock-On, Swords Dance, Techno Blast, Sacred Sword, Secret Sword, Mirror Move (only in English, called "Parrot Mimicry" in Japan which makes more sense), Spikes, Pin Missile, X-Scissor, Spiky Shield, Magnet Rise, Magnetic Flux, Luster Purge, Mirror Coat, Reflect
Ghost: Pain Split, Perish Song, Bone Club, Bone Rush, Bonemerang, Leech Life, Will-O-Wisp (but Fire makes sense too), Eerie Impulse
Flying: Razor Wind, Whirlwind, Vacuum Wave, Thousand Arrows, Silver Wind, U-turn, Twister
Poison: Spit Up
Fighting: Strength, Work Up, Smack Down (or Normal, maybe even Flying), Guard Split, Guard Swap, Dual Chop
Grass: Sweet Scent, Powder, Rage Powder, Flower Shield
Fairy: Attract, Wish, Healing Wish, Heart Stamp, Lunar Dance, Magic Coat, Magic Room
Rock: Rock Smash, Precipice Blades, Roar of Time
Normal: Chatter, Head Smash, Rollout, Wide Guard, Attack Order, Defend Order, Fury Cutter, Heal Order, Twineedle, Lick, Withdraw, Energy Ball, Power Whip (or Dark), Nuzzle, Agility, Rest, Role Play, Synchronoise, Disarming Voice
Dragon: Dragon Ascent
Water: Thousand Waves, Giga Drain, Mega Drain, Mist Ball, Mist, Misty Terrain
Ground: Steamroller, Geomancy
Bug: Horn Leech
Final Fun Fact: Dual Chop originated first as a TCG Move... as a move for Machop.
New Complaint: I kind of wish that the Gen V & VI Elite Four would raise in difficulty as you beat each member. Would it take that much more time to raise their Pokemon levels a bit?
On move names: I stand corrected on Dual Chop. Having looked through its distribution, I can see how Dual Chop serves as some kind of gimmicky pseudo-Fighting move now, and I understand how it makes sense with the Axew line.
However! In that long list I feel there are many others rightfully pointed out.
Fake Out, Glare, Mean Look, Swagger,
Foresight, Mind Reader (why are these not!?), Psych Up,
Pain Split,
Razor Wind, Whirlwind,
Strength,
Sweet Scent (it's not? What the hell?),
Chatter, Wide Guard, Lick, Withdraw, Agility, Rest, Role Play,
DRAGON ASCENT,
Mist
I think there's a case to be made with all of these.
For some of the others, it's just unfortunately hard to make them sounding more like their own type, like I tried with Dual Chop: Steamroller, Smack Down, Heart Stamp, X-Scissor etc.
And then those which I agree are oddly named: Eerie Impulse, Silver Wind, and Vacuum Wave stand out.
And then those which I think are quite clearly justified or self-explanatory: Rock Smash, the Order moves, the Drain moves, Twineedle, Power Whip, Magnet Rise (read it up), Magnetic Flux, Signal Beam, Tail Glow, Astonish etc.
Good effort on the list, by the way.
Pick your next Elite Four battle: I agree. It's a little odd to think about in-universe, but from a gameplay perspective it's quite nice - really builds up that "I wonder if I'm ready for the next guy" feeling.
However! In that long list I feel there are many others rightfully pointed out.
Fake Out, Glare, Mean Look, Swagger,
Foresight, Mind Reader (why are these not!?), Psych Up,
Pain Split,
Razor Wind, Whirlwind,
Strength,
Sweet Scent (it's not? What the hell?),
Chatter, Wide Guard, Lick, Withdraw, Agility, Rest, Role Play,
DRAGON ASCENT,
Mist
I think there's a case to be made with all of these.
For some of the others, it's just unfortunately hard to make them sounding more like their own type, like I tried with Dual Chop: Steamroller, Smack Down, Heart Stamp, X-Scissor etc.
And then those which I agree are oddly named: Eerie Impulse, Silver Wind, and Vacuum Wave stand out.
And then those which I think are quite clearly justified or self-explanatory: Rock Smash, the Order moves, the Drain moves, Twineedle, Power Whip, Magnet Rise (read it up), Magnetic Flux, Signal Beam, Tail Glow, Astonish etc.
Good effort on the list, by the way.
Pick your next Elite Four battle: I agree. It's a little odd to think about in-universe, but from a gameplay perspective it's quite nice - really builds up that "I wonder if I'm ready for the next guy" feeling.
I think it has more to do with consistency. ie: Why force players to spend potentially days grinding up to the highest level Elite 4 member when you can just let the player have an Elite 4 that are all at the same difficulty. It also prevents players from struggling with specific members that they didn't grind high enough for.
Spinning In Their Barn: I always took that Rollout was the Pokemon rolling (whether curling up or on its side) and gathering stones as it rolls. It doesn't need to roll fast to do that (which could explain the imperfect Accuracy) and it does more damage because it gathers more stones and becomes bigger, not because it rolls faster. Rapid Spin however has the Pokemon able to spin around at high speeds. Yes, in the anime they showed Miltank curling up and rapidly spinning, however in the Stadium games if I recall correctly they show Miltank using Rollout by rolling on its side. For the most part I can see how most of the Pokemon that learn Rapid Spin can, well, spin rapidly... except for Delibird. I have a feeling that's sort of a "throw the dog a bone" thing then them going "well obviously this Pokemon would learn Rapid Spin because...".
Should Miltank learn Rapid Spin? Hmm, well if Delibird can, sure, why not. It'll probably be as an Egg Move or Move Tutor though, can't see a Miltank naturally learning it as those udders don't look very aerodynamic.
Dual Chop Action: Well Dual Chop is sort of the Axex's family Signature Move so it makes sense in terms of them (though other Pokemon learn it, including Fighting-types who focus on martial arts like karate). Though I don't see how it being called Dual Smash makes it any more Dragon-type. Honestly you can say any Dragon-type move that doesn't have "dragon" in its name doesn't sound like a Dragon-type move. Dual Chop sounds like a Fighting-type move, Outrage Dark-type, Roar of Time Rock-type, Spacial Rend Psychic-type, and Twister Flying-type. Though I'm sure you can make a whole list of moves that sound like they could be mistaken for another type:
Fire: Explosion, Self-Destruct, Morning Sun, Smokescreen, Solar Beam, Haze
Dark: Fake Out, Frustration, Glare, Mean Look, Swagger, Revenge, Astonish (note a lot of Ghost-type moves sound like they could be Dark-type moves, like those that start with "shadow"), Doom Desire, Imprison, Outrage
Electric: Flash, Signal Beam, Tail Glow, Confuse Ray, Light Screen, Light of Ruin
Psychic: Foresight, Lucky Chant (or Fairy), Mind Reader, Psyche Up, Aura Sphere, Detect, Origin Pulse, Spacial Rend
Steel: Guillotine (though in Japan it would probably be Bug since its called Pincer "Guillotine"), Lock-On, Swords Dance, Techno Blast, Sacred Sword, Secret Sword, Mirror Move (only in English, called "Parrot Mimicry" in Japan which makes more sense), Spikes, Pin Missile, X-Scissor, Spiky Shield, Magnet Rise, Magnetic Flux, Luster Purge, Mirror Coat, Reflect
Ghost: Pain Split, Perish Song, Bone Club, Bone Rush, Bonemerang, Leech Life, Will-O-Wisp (but Fire makes sense too), Eerie Impulse
Flying: Razor Wind, Whirlwind, Vacuum Wave, Thousand Arrows, Silver Wind, U-turn, Twister
Poison: Spit Up
Fighting: Strength, Work Up, Smack Down (or Normal, maybe even Flying), Guard Split, Guard Swap, Dual Chop
Grass: Sweet Scent, Powder, Rage Powder, Flower Shield
Fairy: Attract, Wish, Healing Wish, Heart Stamp, Lunar Dance, Magic Coat, Magic Room
Rock: Rock Smash, Precipice Blades, Roar of Time
Normal: Chatter, Head Smash, Rollout, Wide Guard, Attack Order, Defend Order, Fury Cutter, Heal Order, Twineedle, Lick, Withdraw, Energy Ball, Power Whip (or Dark), Nuzzle, Agility, Rest, Role Play, Synchronoise, Disarming Voice
Dragon: Dragon Ascent
Water: Thousand Waves, Giga Drain, Mega Drain, Mist Ball, Mist, Misty Terrain
Ground: Steamroller, Geomancy
Bug: Horn Leech
Final Fun Fact: Dual Chop originated first as a TCG Move... as a move for Machop.
New Complaint: I kind of wish that the Gen V & VI Elite Four would raise in difficulty as you beat each member. Would it take that much more time to raise their Pokemon levels a bit?
I agree with your opinion about the move names. One thing I would like to point out is that the game developers seem to not be able to decide whether or not sword moves should be steel type or fighting type or normal type: sacred sword is fighting type since Terrakion, vizaron, coballion and Keldeo have them as their signature moves. The fighting type part references the physical side of using a sword (especially when it comes out of the actual body of the pokemon). I think that most sword moves should be steel due to the sword being made of a metal or steel.
I agree that Gen 6 elite four should be harder, especially the Kalos one. I do not think the Unova elite four should be made harder though.
Well the thing is its all in context. I think most of the time they have an idea for a move, plan the mechanics behind it, and then name it. The name describes what the move does, especially in the early gens when the Description space was limited (if a move had a secondary effect you're only told about the secondary effect). For example for the move Steamroller, it's sort of me meant to be the signature move of the Venipede family who attack by rolling up and rolling over their opponents.
Sometimes the Japanese name for the move is different which could but a whole different meaning to the move. For example, similar to how Mirror Move is called Parrot Mimicry in Japanese, Glare is called Snake's Glare in Japan so its a specific kind of Pokemon who can learn it so thus Normal-type so it can be easily spread to all types.
And finally sometimes the type is chosen just for distribution purposes, especially for Status Moves.
But with that all said there are still some oddities. As you noted with Sweet Scent, most Pokemon that learn it are Grass- or Bug-type.
But if they can't defeat an Elite Four member how are they going to beat the Champion?
Well, what is a sword but a stick who's side has been sharpened to an edge? Well, maybe that's too much of a simplification, but I think you can make a sword or blade out of stone and wood (or plastic). Also usually its shown when a Pokemon attacks the part of the body they use glow, so it could be their "charging" that body part with just the energy of the type.
Obviously this was just all for fun. :)
Are we allowed to discuss things having to do with the fanbase more than the games themselves?
Because one thing I've been more than a bit annoyed at is the dismissal/derision I see from a lot of Pokemon fans towards the "Yo-Kai Watch" franchise, and this is when my experience is mostly watching the dubbed anime and considering picking up the game to fill a lull in my library.
I see no real justification for this attitude beyond the shared monster collection mechanic, with a lot of the Pokemon actually being based on real animals or mythological creatures from various other cultures compared to the Yo-Kai being more of a Japanese concept and always more wacky spirits. My understanding is that the games don't play anything alike. The "why play this when we have Pokemon?" attitude annoys me because it's like saying "why play platformers when we have Mario?" or "why play Adventure games when we have Zelda?"; it's narrow-minded and kind of elitist in all honesty. It's not a matter of originality either, as Pokemon's concept isn't wholly original either in hindsight: Dragon Quest V had Monster collection as party members about 4 years before Pokemon Red & Green were released.
One thing I will say, having seen about a dozen episodes of Yo-Kai Watch's dubbed anime compared to ~3 regions worth of Pokemon (Gen 1, Gen 3, half each of Gen 2 and 4), Yo-Kai has the better anime show. The one-off Yokai have more personality to them than a given one-off Pokemon, sometimes more than recurring ones, and the episodic format works better compared to Pokemon having written itself into the "Need Ash for every sequel" trap and non-Gym or Villain episodes feeling very filler like. And while this last part is subjective, I always found the Pokemon characters bland, annoying, or both, especially since the formula is pretty predictable at this point: Character progresses to goal, has some hiccups, ultimately loses at the League/Grand Festival/etc, but isn't discouraged and continues towards it when they go their separate ways. While not particularly complex, I find the Yo-Kai watch cast pretty inoffensive even at their worst.
I'll just wrap it up there before I start ranting about the anime.
tl;dr, Pokemon fans' undue derision against Yo-Kai Watch annoys me, and I'm not even that big on the latter.
Because one thing I've been more than a bit annoyed at is the dismissal/derision I see from a lot of Pokemon fans towards the "Yo-Kai Watch" franchise, and this is when my experience is mostly watching the dubbed anime and considering picking up the game to fill a lull in my library.
I see no real justification for this attitude beyond the shared monster collection mechanic, with a lot of the Pokemon actually being based on real animals or mythological creatures from various other cultures compared to the Yo-Kai being more of a Japanese concept and always more wacky spirits. My understanding is that the games don't play anything alike. The "why play this when we have Pokemon?" attitude annoys me because it's like saying "why play platformers when we have Mario?" or "why play Adventure games when we have Zelda?"; it's narrow-minded and kind of elitist in all honesty. It's not a matter of originality either, as Pokemon's concept isn't wholly original either in hindsight: Dragon Quest V had Monster collection as party members about 4 years before Pokemon Red & Green were released.
One thing I will say, having seen about a dozen episodes of Yo-Kai Watch's dubbed anime compared to ~3 regions worth of Pokemon (Gen 1, Gen 3, half each of Gen 2 and 4), Yo-Kai has the better anime show. The one-off Yokai have more personality to them than a given one-off Pokemon, sometimes more than recurring ones, and the episodic format works better compared to Pokemon having written itself into the "Need Ash for every sequel" trap and non-Gym or Villain episodes feeling very filler like. And while this last part is subjective, I always found the Pokemon characters bland, annoying, or both, especially since the formula is pretty predictable at this point: Character progresses to goal, has some hiccups, ultimately loses at the League/Grand Festival/etc, but isn't discouraged and continues towards it when they go their separate ways. While not particularly complex, I find the Yo-Kai watch cast pretty inoffensive even at their worst.
I'll just wrap it up there before I start ranting about the anime.
tl;dr, Pokemon fans' undue derision against Yo-Kai Watch annoys me, and I'm not even that big on the latter.
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pika pal:
While I haven't played the games from what I heard about it the similarities with Pokemon is really just its a monster collecting game. It's no more Pokemon as Shin Megami Tensei is. You're not going around a region collecting and training monsters for competition and fighting an evil organization, you're just a kid (and the only person who can see the Yokai) who stays within distance of the town he's in for the game and helping both people and Yokai out with their problems. Yokai are a representation or gives a person they've attached to a certain problem and its up to you and the Yokai you collect to free people from their Yokai possessor; usually by battling the Yokai. Speaking of which, compared to Pokemon the Yokai battling is shallow, you just choose which Yokai to fight (and I think maybe equipment, not sure if there's any more then that) and you watch as your Yokai fight with little involvement from you (I think there's also a "type" system but I heard its only 3 types and they form a simple rock-paper-scissor triangle). As you can tell it's more story focused than the Pokemon games, telling a character's story rather then saying the playable character is your avatar and you just so happen to stumble into the chance of being a trainer and stopping an evil team (oh, another difference, Yokai watch has no villains, just Yokai causing personal problems).
Tl;dr: Pokemon and Yokai Watch may be monster collecting/battling franchises but they're far from being the same. Pokemon is more focused on you training the monters, Yokai Watch is more focused on a story of an original character helping people and Yokai with their problems.
Likewise this will also follow for the anime which was made at the same time as the games. This means the anime and games reflect each other more closely. Pokemon was a game first who then had an anime based after it, so the Pokemon anime is actually an adaption of the games meaning it takes more liberties than the games do. Also the formula of the games translate differently. Yokai Watch is episodic, there's a Yokai causing someone problems and they need to figure out how to help the Yokai to make it stop. However due to how the Pokemon games progress there's actually a "story" that does need to be followed: collect the 8 badges, stop the villain team, participate in the league to try and obtain the goal of the main character. That's another thing, the character in the Yokai Watch game and anime is the same character, but since Pokemon is a "self-insert" game they needed to create an original character: Ash. That already puts a major separation between the Pokemon games and anime, especially since Ash can only train 6 Pokemon and it's doubtful they'll be the same as a player's. Finally since Pokemon expands an entire region which is filled with ton of stuff the anime has to find ways to include that stuff, show off new Pokemon, and develop their characters and the Pokemon they're training... and sadly I don't think the Pokemon animators aren't really up to that task where it could reach great heights (not helped they decided to stick with Ash as the main character for every region instead of focusing on a new one).
Tl;dr: Yokai Watch is better and easier to be made into an anime than Pokemon due to how its an episodic adventure and has a single character to focus on, not to mention both the game and anime was created at the same time. Pokemon has a story to follow as well as locations, activities, and Pokemon to show while trying to develop their originally made characters.
As for the monster's attitudes, once again a difference between just how the two are. Pokemon for the most part are shown to be like animals with there being multiples of each species (with a few exceptions to Legendaries, at least in-story). In the anime when we meet a Pokemon we're just meeting an individual Pokemon, not a representation of the whole species (and usually Ash & co. run into an oddball of the group). Yokai Watch's Yokai for the most part are unique creatures, they represent something thus this allows them to be fleshed out more as they're the only one of them.
So, with all these differences why do some Pokemon fans take offense to Yokai Watch? Well personally I found it a bit offensive how it just assumed it was going to be a big hit. Yokai Watch didn't just come out as a game, it had an anime and a ton of merchandise ready. Excuse me? Why so confident this new franchise would do so well? It's as if they may be following in the shadow of another popular monster catching franchise... yeah, not going to lie, I think if Pokemon didn't exist than neither would Yokai Watch. The makers of Yokai Watch saw the popularity of Pokemon and made their own monster catching franchise by taking note what was the most popular aspects of Pokemon. I'm not saying Yokai Watch isn't its own thing and the makers didn't put lots of love and thought into it, just saying it seemed to know it was going to be big and the only way for it to know that is if there was a precedence for it and they follow a model close to that precedence. Like Digimon would actually still exist if Pokemon didn't because Digimon started out just as a tamagotchi-like virtual pet and grew from there. Pokemon started out with the games which then got popular and became a pop culture phenomenon. Yokai Watch came in acting like it was the biggest new thing ever which admittedly rubs me the wrong way.
Tl;dr: I think what people find most offensive about Yokai Watch it came in acting like it was going to be a big hit. It saw what Pokemon did, took note what was liked about Pokemon, and did their twist on things. Yokai Watch wouldn't exist without Pokemon, unlike say Digimon which would have since it and Pokemon started out as just games and grew popular enough to get their own anime and expansive merchandise.
All in all, I don't think Pokemon fans need to worry about Yokai Watch. Maybe in Japan, but from what I heard it's bombing in the west which isn't that surprising. Yokai Watch is VERY Japanese and its popular in Japan because Japanese kids grew up knowing these legends. But in the west? They're like any other monster to us, we didn't really grow up with hearing their legends so we have no connection which what made it popular in Japan. However, Pokemon has a much wider reach. Pokemon are based on animals, plants, elements, objects, and myths from all around the world (and even then the Pokemon is just based on the myth, it's its own creature separate from them myth). So it lost some ground with young kids in Japan, all around the world I think Pokemon still stands head and shoulder above it. Not only that Pokemon's monster mechanic is much deeper than Yokai Watch's. However competition is a good thing, with Yokai Watch boasting a more indepth story and aiming for younger kids it could help Pokemon to focus itself. GF may start focusing on building on the story and world building as well as aiming for older kids. Also Pokemon should continue focusing on basing regions on other parts of the world and making Pokemon out of animals and especially the mythology of that place. Yokai Watch has a pretty tight grip on Japanese mythology (and from what I've seen on their version of what American Yokai would look like I don't think quite get America outside of its pop culture) so the best thing for Pokemon to do is keep building the Pokemon world, the worst thing they could do is base a region in Japan and go heavy in Japanese mythology trying to "win back" the younger kids in Japan.
While I haven't played the games from what I heard about it the similarities with Pokemon is really just its a monster collecting game. It's no more Pokemon as Shin Megami Tensei is. You're not going around a region collecting and training monsters for competition and fighting an evil organization, you're just a kid (and the only person who can see the Yokai) who stays within distance of the town he's in for the game and helping both people and Yokai out with their problems. Yokai are a representation or gives a person they've attached to a certain problem and its up to you and the Yokai you collect to free people from their Yokai possessor; usually by battling the Yokai. Speaking of which, compared to Pokemon the Yokai battling is shallow, you just choose which Yokai to fight (and I think maybe equipment, not sure if there's any more then that) and you watch as your Yokai fight with little involvement from you (I think there's also a "type" system but I heard its only 3 types and they form a simple rock-paper-scissor triangle). As you can tell it's more story focused than the Pokemon games, telling a character's story rather then saying the playable character is your avatar and you just so happen to stumble into the chance of being a trainer and stopping an evil team (oh, another difference, Yokai watch has no villains, just Yokai causing personal problems).
Tl;dr: Pokemon and Yokai Watch may be monster collecting/battling franchises but they're far from being the same. Pokemon is more focused on you training the monters, Yokai Watch is more focused on a story of an original character helping people and Yokai with their problems.
Likewise this will also follow for the anime which was made at the same time as the games. This means the anime and games reflect each other more closely. Pokemon was a game first who then had an anime based after it, so the Pokemon anime is actually an adaption of the games meaning it takes more liberties than the games do. Also the formula of the games translate differently. Yokai Watch is episodic, there's a Yokai causing someone problems and they need to figure out how to help the Yokai to make it stop. However due to how the Pokemon games progress there's actually a "story" that does need to be followed: collect the 8 badges, stop the villain team, participate in the league to try and obtain the goal of the main character. That's another thing, the character in the Yokai Watch game and anime is the same character, but since Pokemon is a "self-insert" game they needed to create an original character: Ash. That already puts a major separation between the Pokemon games and anime, especially since Ash can only train 6 Pokemon and it's doubtful they'll be the same as a player's. Finally since Pokemon expands an entire region which is filled with ton of stuff the anime has to find ways to include that stuff, show off new Pokemon, and develop their characters and the Pokemon they're training... and sadly I don't think the Pokemon animators aren't really up to that task where it could reach great heights (not helped they decided to stick with Ash as the main character for every region instead of focusing on a new one).
Tl;dr: Yokai Watch is better and easier to be made into an anime than Pokemon due to how its an episodic adventure and has a single character to focus on, not to mention both the game and anime was created at the same time. Pokemon has a story to follow as well as locations, activities, and Pokemon to show while trying to develop their originally made characters.
As for the monster's attitudes, once again a difference between just how the two are. Pokemon for the most part are shown to be like animals with there being multiples of each species (with a few exceptions to Legendaries, at least in-story). In the anime when we meet a Pokemon we're just meeting an individual Pokemon, not a representation of the whole species (and usually Ash & co. run into an oddball of the group). Yokai Watch's Yokai for the most part are unique creatures, they represent something thus this allows them to be fleshed out more as they're the only one of them.
So, with all these differences why do some Pokemon fans take offense to Yokai Watch? Well personally I found it a bit offensive how it just assumed it was going to be a big hit. Yokai Watch didn't just come out as a game, it had an anime and a ton of merchandise ready. Excuse me? Why so confident this new franchise would do so well? It's as if they may be following in the shadow of another popular monster catching franchise... yeah, not going to lie, I think if Pokemon didn't exist than neither would Yokai Watch. The makers of Yokai Watch saw the popularity of Pokemon and made their own monster catching franchise by taking note what was the most popular aspects of Pokemon. I'm not saying Yokai Watch isn't its own thing and the makers didn't put lots of love and thought into it, just saying it seemed to know it was going to be big and the only way for it to know that is if there was a precedence for it and they follow a model close to that precedence. Like Digimon would actually still exist if Pokemon didn't because Digimon started out just as a tamagotchi-like virtual pet and grew from there. Pokemon started out with the games which then got popular and became a pop culture phenomenon. Yokai Watch came in acting like it was the biggest new thing ever which admittedly rubs me the wrong way.
Tl;dr: I think what people find most offensive about Yokai Watch it came in acting like it was going to be a big hit. It saw what Pokemon did, took note what was liked about Pokemon, and did their twist on things. Yokai Watch wouldn't exist without Pokemon, unlike say Digimon which would have since it and Pokemon started out as just games and grew popular enough to get their own anime and expansive merchandise.
All in all, I don't think Pokemon fans need to worry about Yokai Watch. Maybe in Japan, but from what I heard it's bombing in the west which isn't that surprising. Yokai Watch is VERY Japanese and its popular in Japan because Japanese kids grew up knowing these legends. But in the west? They're like any other monster to us, we didn't really grow up with hearing their legends so we have no connection which what made it popular in Japan. However, Pokemon has a much wider reach. Pokemon are based on animals, plants, elements, objects, and myths from all around the world (and even then the Pokemon is just based on the myth, it's its own creature separate from them myth). So it lost some ground with young kids in Japan, all around the world I think Pokemon still stands head and shoulder above it. Not only that Pokemon's monster mechanic is much deeper than Yokai Watch's. However competition is a good thing, with Yokai Watch boasting a more indepth story and aiming for younger kids it could help Pokemon to focus itself. GF may start focusing on building on the story and world building as well as aiming for older kids. Also Pokemon should continue focusing on basing regions on other parts of the world and making Pokemon out of animals and especially the mythology of that place. Yokai Watch has a pretty tight grip on Japanese mythology (and from what I've seen on their version of what American Yokai would look like I don't think quite get America outside of its pop culture) so the best thing for Pokemon to do is keep building the Pokemon world, the worst thing they could do is base a region in Japan and go heavy in Japanese mythology trying to "win back" the younger kids in Japan.
This is the only point I disagree somewhat with in one or two points. My main thing I don't feel having the anime and merchandise tying into the franchise at the same time as the game automatically equates to having a huge ego, as all things considered it's not too different than a movie debuting with a tie-in video game or action figures and such. You could argue what that says about confidence/arrogance, but it's not something exclusive to Yo-Kai Watch. Yo-Kai Watch was definitely building on the roots of Pokemon, but like I noted, Pokemon's roots can be traced to Dragon Quest's recruitable monster system (different movepools, stats, elemental resistances, weapon selection standing in for EV's) and built on that in a sense. As I can tell, Yo-Kai Watch probably saw that it had a shot in Japan and capitalized on that, even if it wasn't going to compete on a Global scale, and I get the impression that buying tie-in merchandise for something like a game or anime in Japan is just a bit more common than in other cultures.
I could understand where you're coming from if this had just been a random developer that got a smash hit, but Level 5 games does have a pretty decent pedigree behind it as a Game developer, at least in Japan
- Developed Dragon Quest 8 and 9 (Dragon Quest is ENORMOUS in Japan, and those two are some of the best received entries)
- Professor Layton
- Ni No Kuni
Those are some pretty big points to have under their belt going into this as far as quality expectation. Obviously they wouldn't do well to expect it to get as big as it did out of the gate, but I think it was justified to have confidence in the game, which would help the publicity for the other aspects from there.
And I do think that, while it might rub some the wrong way, that confidence in the brand is something it needs to survive with competition on the scale of Pokemon. So many companies tried making franchises or consoles to try and survive in the game industry, but the first one to be a legitimate competitor after Nintendo became the giant it is was SEGA with Sonic and the Genesis, who weren't afraid to talk themselves up a bit in challenging the titan Nintendo was for the game market at the time. Say what you want about their current state, but SEGA had to think and act big to garner confidence when competing with something so big. Similarly, Yo-Kai Watch probably thought it had to make a big first impression if it wanted to challenge Pokemon in the genre.
The thing I do agree with is that competition will hopefully be healthy for Pokemon. Heck, there's been a lot of worry about the series stagnating or even taking some steps backwards with Gen 6 (story, post-game, tech/presentation), and I think part of that is Pokemon either legitimately stagnating by lack of ideas, or more cynically the developers kind of resting on their laurels. Gen 6 kinda feels Gen 5 paint-by-numbers in story and structure at times
- Gang of kids and friends who are sort of rivals
- More linear region layout
- Non-Japanese based region with a lot of set pieces for cities based on that
- Some backstory about the region and history on the late game plot device/legendary (V had story emphasis, and this went beyond the token backstory other gens had because there were full cutscenes)
- Character connected to villains who is well-intentioned extremist and philosophical
- Legendaries saved for post-game besides Mascot you must catch to battle the Team leader.
- Final Battle is a non-Champion character to wrap the game up on something pertaining to the ancient story (N's realization and departure for answers, AZ's reunion with Floette)
It felt like they tried to do the stuff people liked in Gen 5 again, but it felt more hollow overall, like they just wanted to do it because it was an easy way to make it "good" more than seeking to improve on the formula. The idea of potentially losing that audience with a big competitor present might motivate them to actually improve on the game actively and innovate. Maybe the rest of the world won't take quite to Yo-Kai Watch as is, but if Pokemon doesn't work to keep improving itself, it might lose it to that, SMT, Dragon Quest Monsters, or some other series that keeps building up to try and overtake the Titan that's not reaching for heights to stay ahead rather than being complacent with its current lead.
I feel this is the big thing here. I remember (and looking at age, probably Pikachu315111 too), the age of American TV channels importing many many other "Mons" animes that were EXTREMELY similar to Pokemon. The big one that we all remember was Digimon because that one actually had mild success. But I remember other ones like "Fighting Foodons" or "Flint the Time Detective" and the many video games that came out at that time (I always wanted to get Robopon because the cartridge was different compared to other GB games). None of them dared to outright claim that they were going to be the next Pokemon (Digimon became the closest but they also were established in Japan before they even got their first anime).
I think the thing isn't really Yokai Watch itself but the hype backlash because so many others that were involved with importing it assumed that everyone would immediately love it and promoted it like the next big thing. Maybe Pokemon was like that too, but I'll admit it's been too long to remember (honestly my like for Pokemon came completely unrelated to the main Pokemon craze at the time) and seeing so many others try and fail left me jaded. I'll admit I don't really have much thoughts about it beyond "Oh, that's cute" when I see them saying it's the next Pokemon. I don't think it will. It may go down as the next Digimon though (good anime, unremarkable games) especially now that Digimon itself is going through its nostalgia phase.
I actually think that Digimon is a rip off of Pokemon more than Yokai Watch is.
Game Freak took I think 9 years to develop Pokemon , which is a very long time, and it is known that many people left Game Freak due to the long development.
It is very possible that someone who had left leaked the information, stole the idea, changed a little, and become Digimon.
(Company spies are a thing in Japan)
I just cannot get over at why they can both evolve! (In Japanese, there's nothing such as "Digivolve"-- they are both called "evolve" in the Japanese version)
The fact that they can both evolve really convinces me that one is ripping off the other.
Yokai Watch however, is very different from Pokemon.
* For starters, they don't evolve.
* Yokai from Yokai Watch are not living beings, and are not inspired by real life animals.
* Yokai Watch anime is not of sci-fi genre, and its main emphasis is Japanese history and tradition. Most of their research are in the fields of history and tradition.
* Yokai Watch takes place in the real world.
Seriously, if you replace the word Yokai into Ghost, you probably won't think it's ripping off from Pokemon. Yokai are very similar to ghosts, and I'd say ghost is a better translation compared to monster.
I would not translate Yokai into monster. Even demon is more fitting than monster.
It is a totally different approach, and I think, the only thing that resembles Pokemon is to be able to recruit monster/ yokai friends, use them to fight.
And as pika pal had stated, Pokemon isn't the only franchise that enables recruitment of monsters.
Just because Pokemon is the only one of this format that made it to the US, doesn't mean that everything similar is a Pokemon rip off-- because there are clearly other stuff as reference.
The reason why it knew it's a big hit is because the games sold very well.
It was after the games sold well, they decided to make an anime.
And THEN, the anime did very well.
It's not like they knew all these from the start. It's not. They took gradual steps too.
It's only due to the delay of the release of US version, you THOUGHT it started out big.
If you think Yokai Watch is similar to Pokemon, have a look at "Monster Strike" and "Puzzle and Dragons".
And the Japanese made them popular without accusing them of ripping off Pokemon.
Monsters in Puzzle and Dragons even evolve...lol.
I wouldn't call this "ripping off", I call this "learning"/ "referencing", and the Japanese companies are very open about it.
Game Freak took I think 9 years to develop Pokemon , which is a very long time, and it is known that many people left Game Freak due to the long development.
It is very possible that someone who had left leaked the information, stole the idea, changed a little, and become Digimon.
(Company spies are a thing in Japan)
I just cannot get over at why they can both evolve! (In Japanese, there's nothing such as "Digivolve"-- they are both called "evolve" in the Japanese version)
The fact that they can both evolve really convinces me that one is ripping off the other.
Yokai Watch however, is very different from Pokemon.
* For starters, they don't evolve.
* Yokai from Yokai Watch are not living beings, and are not inspired by real life animals.
* Yokai Watch anime is not of sci-fi genre, and its main emphasis is Japanese history and tradition. Most of their research are in the fields of history and tradition.
* Yokai Watch takes place in the real world.
Seriously, if you replace the word Yokai into Ghost, you probably won't think it's ripping off from Pokemon. Yokai are very similar to ghosts, and I'd say ghost is a better translation compared to monster.
I would not translate Yokai into monster. Even demon is more fitting than monster.
It is a totally different approach, and I think, the only thing that resembles Pokemon is to be able to recruit monster/ yokai friends, use them to fight.
And as pika pal had stated, Pokemon isn't the only franchise that enables recruitment of monsters.
Just because Pokemon is the only one of this format that made it to the US, doesn't mean that everything similar is a Pokemon rip off-- because there are clearly other stuff as reference.
The reason why it knew it's a big hit is because the games sold very well.
It was after the games sold well, they decided to make an anime.
And THEN, the anime did very well.
It's not like they knew all these from the start. It's not. They took gradual steps too.
It's only due to the delay of the release of US version, you THOUGHT it started out big.
If you think Yokai Watch is similar to Pokemon, have a look at "Monster Strike" and "Puzzle and Dragons".
And the Japanese made them popular without accusing them of ripping off Pokemon.
Monsters in Puzzle and Dragons even evolve...lol.
I wouldn't call this "ripping off", I call this "learning"/ "referencing", and the Japanese companies are very open about it.
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Dude puzzles and dragon is mostly cute monster girls take a look at Bastet :3 a whole genre on its own, just look at the subculture for recent stuff like kancolle or the monsterpedia for a very old entrance on the subculture(warning it's lewd) the difference is the MCCG format.
Evolution happens in every MCCG man, it's a way of tailoring player commitment and give bonus rewards for collecting, other games had evolving classes beforehand in jrpg it's not exclusive to the Pokémon franchise.
Evolution happens in every MCCG man, it's a way of tailoring player commitment and give bonus rewards for collecting, other games had evolving classes beforehand in jrpg it's not exclusive to the Pokémon franchise.
They had evolution before Pokemon?
Wow, I really didn't know that.
Mind naming a few franchises?
Any game with a class switch that improved stats counts as evolution, FE comes to my mind as a wide spread franchise that has been using it for a while.