(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[Max. Optimizer]

I personally always found the following things significantly annoying:

The gym designs: Don't get me wrong, I like the fact that they try to give each gym a distinct look that fits the type of Pokémon that corresponds relatively to the Gym leader, but in my honest opinion they are over-exaggerating nowadays with all the puzzles and labyrinths that you have to complete first in order to advance to the actual Gym Leader. Again, I don't mind a forest theme or a cave theme at all, it's just that I'd like to come to the point and defeat the trainers and eventually the Gym Leader himself without having to run around in circles to make my way through.
The pop-ups: I hate it when I'm just cycling around, hatching some eggs and minding my own business in general, when suddenly these text boxes pop up, recommending me to try Wonder Trade or O-Powers. I mean, it might be useful one time if you've never used it before, but c'mon, do they really need to pop-up again constantly? I'm fully aware Wonder Trade exists, stop asking ffs.
The luck-based hax strategies used by the AI in the Battle Maison: To an extent I can definitely understand that it's supposed to be a challenge, so far so good. But, you kinda have a problem if your AI is notorious for using unfair luck-based strategies while relying on hax, using Hidden Ability Legendaries that haven't been released yet or flat-out counter-teaming you. Considering the fact that Pokémon has to remain a franchise that basically anybody can pick up and play, they should in my opinion implement different modes, ranging from "Normal", "Master" and "Veteran", with increasingly higher difficulty level and amount of gained Battle Points. So, basically every trainer can individually chose the difficulty level.

 

[Kurona]

Honestly; they should just remove evasion from the game completely - it's a worthless battle mechanic with no skill put into it that ruins competitive, in-game and the battle facilities alike (when it's allowed).

 

[Max. Optimizer]

Yeah, I couldn't possibly agree more with you on that matter. Pokémon battles are supposed be challenging, but fun.
You can literally outplay your opponent all you want, evasion just ruins it.
If you're at +6 evasion, you can literally make all sort of dumb plays since your opponent's moves will probably just miss anyway.

What also annoys me is that the Battle Maison trainers keep teasing you after you lose with all sorts of taunting messages.
Something along the lines of: "Oh? I thought you were better than that", "D-Did I just defeat the Champion?", "You should've practiced more", "Pff. Too easy" etc.
Like, eh hello? Congratulations for interrupting my winning streak with the most tedious and cheap tactics, that's quite an achievement. Tch!

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Honestly; they should just remove evasion from the game completely - it's a worthless battle mechanic with no skill put into it that ruins competitive, in-game and the battle facilities alike (when it's allowed).

You know what they should do? You know how Stomp, Dragon Rush, and the ilk double in power and are 100% accurate now when under the effect of minimize? How about make that 100% and double power under any evasion moves. Same with the 100% accurate moves. Imagine a format where evasion is common and we got like Mega Gardevoir with Swift on our side. And a Garchomp finally getting a use for its Dragon Rush.

 

[nameless90]

This kind of problem should be easily fixable with the inclusion of a series of clauses (i.e. sleep clause, evasion clause, Baton Pass clause, ...) at the beginning of the game in order to choose what you don't want to see in the game later.
I find very lacking the customization of the game regarding the important aspects of the pokemon battles during the adventury (i.e. the difficulty settings and the many clauses you'd like to choose from).

 

[Karxrida]

Remember when older games gave you the ability to toggle some clauses instead of the (essentially) all-or-nothing system we have currently? Why did they remove that?

 

[Gabe]

Wasn't that in the past tense? I don't think him nor Colress are in Kalos during the XY storyline.

don't remember, but overall I wish the series would connect more. Little things like seeing characters mentioned or popping up in other regions is cool.

 

[Karxrida]

iirc X and Y take place concurrently with Black and White. Colress could theoretically still be in Kalos.

 

[pika pal]

I personally think Evasion is just a stupid mechanic because it's very clearly a method that favors being used by AI and Maison trainers over you.

In the Maison, you have to maintain at minimum a streak of seven consecutive wins to claim a prize, which means 21 Pokemon you need to go through with the strategy. Because of that, there's a lot of room for error and most players won't go with a strategy that is not only long winded, but inconsistent. The AI, on the other hand, only has to win one battle out of those 7 to accomplish its purpose of breaking your streak, so of course you're going to see one employ it eventually by law of averages. My problem is that at the higher levels that should be the last place you see that. High level play should come down to strategy, not luck. As I can attest to, even an unskilled player can brute force their way through the early levels, but the later ones will take some modicum of strategy to build for.

Most games, an enemy that employs an evasion or annoyance strategy is something like a Metal Slime in Dragon Quest: Annoying to kill without being outright dangerous, and lucrative rewards to encourage the player to still fight them. In Pokemon, Evasion (and Swagger etc) is used to force the player to go through coin flips to earn what is by all accounts a rudimentary reward: The game doesn't give me 3x the BP just because the opponent used Double Team.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

In the Maison, you have to maintain at minimum a streak of seven consecutive wins to claim a prize

Actually they changed it now to only one match to get BP which is one of the little changes I just loved.

 

[Max. Optimizer]

I personally think Evasion is just a stupid mechanic because it's very clearly a method that favors being used by AI and Maison trainers over you.

Exactly, if you can't beat human intelligence you have to rely on pure luck.

You basically have to beat the AI in its own game. I personally love using a team with an Entrainment Durant, Whimsicott and an Acupressure+Sub Drapion, it takes a while to set it up properly but you can at least get a decent amount of Battle Points.
With Entrainment I kind of try narrowing down the AIs options with its lead Pokémon and then proceed to set up my Drapion behind a sub.

It's kind of like the famous lex talionis, "An eye for an eye". I wish I wouldn't have to resort to such strategies, but it's basically the only thing you can do if you need lots of Battle Points for an Ability Capsule for example.

 

[Lady Vader]

Really, the ideal solution (since face it, Evasion isn't going to go away) is for the higher level AI Maison (or its replacement) opponents should stop using Evasion and cheap strategies and play fairly.
And let's just hope that No Guard Fissure Machamp doesn't start showing up there in Sun and Moon.

 

[Max. Optimizer]

And let's just hope that No Guard Fissure Machamp doesn't start showing up there in Sun and Moon.

Imagine Game Freak going even a step further and adding No Guard Fissure Machamp to its Battle Maison repertoire.
I know it's not going to happen, but still, we're talking about the people that create diabolic sets like this:

 

[Kurona]

Really, the ideal solution (since face it, Evasion isn't going to go away) is for the higher level AI Maison (or its replacement) opponents should stop using Evasion and cheap strategies and play fairly.
And let's just hope that No Guard Fissure Machamp doesn't start showing up there in Sun and Moon.

At the very least with No Guard Fissure isn't something that relies on luck and you don't have to come up with specific things that are otherwise weak (for instance, aerial ace and swift to beat evasion) to beat it - Talonflame and Mega Salamence are both immune to it and are super good, and there's a lot of other ground-immune 'mon that are great and I'm sure we'll get more in SM.
That said it would still fucking suck.

 

[Pikachu315111]

You know what they should do? You know how Stomp, Dragon Rush, and the ilk double in power and are 100% accurate now when under the effect of minimize? How about make that 100% and double power under any evasion moves. Same with the 100% accurate moves. Imagine a format where evasion is common and we got like Mega Gardevoir with Swift on our side. And a Garchomp finally getting a use for its Dragon Rush.

Wait, what? *looks* Oh wow, I didn't realize they added to the list of moves that Power was doubled if the opponent used Minimize. Still, I can think of a batch of other moves to add to that list (like Heat Crash and Heavy Slam).

iirc X and Y take place concurrently with Black and White. Colress could theoretically still be in Kalos.

Actually it's BW2 that takes place at the same time as XY. BW are the only games who's plot is the only one happening at its place in the timeline.

Decisive Evasion:
While I understand the frustration with Evasion, at the same time I also get why it exists and I don't think it should be thrown out right off.

I think maybe instead of having Evasion work for all Moves it should only work for Moves that don't have perfect accuracy or if a non-never miss/all hitting Move had its Accuracy decreased. Like if the opponent increased their Evasion they'll have a better chance of dodging Fire Blast (85% Accuracy) BUT they'll always still be hit by Flamethrower (unless Flamethrower had its 100% Accuracy decreased).

That way, instead of being considered purely hax, it maybe adds a bit of strategy to the game in terms of move selection and may give lesser used move a bigger chance of being used. Like already when it comes to choosing Fire Blast or Flamethrower most will still pick Fire Blast since the odds are still in their favor. But if Evasion is changed as I explained it could maybe give more of a reason to pick Flamethrower as now you don't need to worry about Evasion hax with it.

Also they should have moves like Earthquake, Magnitude, Surf, Muddy Water, and any Move that effects the entire field still hit them (honestly I don't know what those moves have an Accuracy check, THEY EFFECT THE ENTIRE FIELD! How are you suppose to dodge the ground shaking (unless you can fly/float) or a giant wave?).

Imagine Game Freak going even a step further and adding No Guard Fissure Machamp to its Battle Maison repertoire.

Actually they should probably ban it from the Battle Facilities since the player can just as easily abuse it.

 

[Lady Vader]

Wait, what? *looks* Oh wow, I didn't realize they added to the list of moves that Power was doubled if the opponent used Minimize. Still, I can think of a batch of other moves to add to that list (like Heat Crash and Heavy Slam).



Actually it's BW2 that takes place at the same time as XY. BW are the only games who's plot is the only one happening at its place in the timeline.

Decisive Evasion:
While I understand the frustration with Evasion, at the same time I also get why it exists and I don't think it should be thrown out right off.

I think maybe instead of having Evasion work for all Moves it should only work for Moves that don't have perfect accuracy or if a non-never miss/all hitting Move had its Accuracy decreased. Like if the opponent increased their Evasion they'll have a better chance of dodging Fire Blast (85% Accuracy) BUT they'll always still be hit by Flamethrower (unless Flamethrower had its 100% Accuracy decreased).

That way, instead of being considered purely hax, it maybe adds a bit of strategy to the game in terms of move selection and may give lesser used move a bigger chance of being used. Like already when it comes to choosing Fire Blast or Flamethrower most will still pick Fire Blast since the odds are still in their favor. But if Evasion is changed as I explained it could maybe give more of a reason to pick Flamethrower as now you don't need to worry about Evasion hax with it.

Also they should have moves like Earthquake, Magnitude, Surf, Muddy Water, and any Move that effects the entire field still hit them (honestly I don't know what those moves have an Accuracy check, THEY EFFECT THE ENTIRE FIELD! How are you suppose to dodge the ground shaking (unless you can fly/float) or a giant wave?).



Actually they should probably ban it from the Battle Facilities since the player can just as easily abuse it.

I agree with moves like Earthquake and Surf, but no so much Flamethrower (regular accuracy applies to perfect situations, evasion and accuracy changes aren't).

 

[Pikachu315111]

I agree with moves like Earthquake and Surf, but no so much Flamethrower (regular accuracy applies to perfect situations, evasion and accuracy changes aren't).

Well the only other idea I can think of (other than just adding in an Evasion Clause (among) others) is to have Moves which aren't affected by certain Evasion increases.

Minimize has a few already though more can be added.
For Double Team maybe having moves that can select multiple targets (these moves, and these, and don't forget about these) also not be affected by its version of Evasion increase.

And actually that's all the changes that would need to be done. Sand Veil and Snow Cloak only activate in certain Weather (that can be cleared or goes away on its own), Tangled Feet only applies to Pokemon who are Confused which clears on its own, and Items like Bright Powder & Lax Incense can be removed/taken. Only ones which can't worked around (aside from never missing/all hitting moves) is increases from Acupressure & Moody, but they have a 1/7 chance of doing so (and though Moody increases a stat by 2 stages it also decreases a stat by 1 stage so there's also that).

 

[Darth Manaphy]

Decisive Evasion:
While I understand the frustration with Evasion, at the same time I also get why it exists and I don't think it should be thrown out right off.

I think maybe instead of having Evasion work for all Moves it should only work for Moves that don't have perfect accuracy or if a non-never miss/all hitting Move had its Accuracy decreased. Like if the opponent increased their Evasion they'll have a better chance of dodging Fire Blast (85% Accuracy) BUT they'll always still be hit by Flamethrower (unless Flamethrower had its 100% Accuracy decreased).

That way, instead of being considered purely hax, it maybe adds a bit of strategy to the game in terms of move selection and may give lesser used move a bigger chance of being used. Like already when it comes to choosing Fire Blast or Flamethrower most will still pick Fire Blast since the odds are still in their favor. But if Evasion is changed as I explained it could maybe give more of a reason to pick Flamethrower as now you don't need to worry about Evasion hax with it.

Also they should have moves like Earthquake, Magnitude, Surf, Muddy Water, and any Move that effects the entire field still hit them (honestly I don't know what those moves have an Accuracy check, THEY EFFECT THE ENTIRE FIELD! How are you suppose to dodge the ground shaking (unless you can fly/float) or a giant wave?).

What they could do is roll extra RNs if we want to play that game. Something like, instead of passing the accuracy test once, you have to pass it twice if your opponent used Double Team (lowering the 85% accuracy move to 72.2% accuracy.

And it would provide an interesting use to Brightpowder, Snow Cloak, and Sand Veil which cause a set accuracy decrease. Brightpowder decreases opponent's accuracy by 20% turning a move like Thunder's 70% accuracy into a move with 50% accuracy. Using Double Team once would lower that accuracy to 25%. At least then it's more of a reliable way of reducing the odds of hitting a hard hitting but low accuracy move.

Obviously then, conversely raising accuracy or lowering evasion would provide you extra dies to hitting and the number of ones you roll to get a hit would depend on the difference between accuracy modifier and evasion modifier. So, say you have +2 accuracy, you will roll 3 RNs and only need one to hit. But say you have +2 accuracy and your opponent has +3 evasion, you will roll 2 RNs and need to hit them both to hit.

That way we can keep evasion consistent and even make real strategies revolving around reducing the hit percentage.


(Imagine having Bright Powder under the effect of Snow Cloak/Sand Veil with an evasion boost - Thunder would have a 9% probability of hitting with this formula)

 

[Oriolous]

The overleveling is a problem for almost every JRPG, but is still fixable in many different ways:
(1) I already suggested to add automatically 2-3 more levels to the pokemon on the Legue (Elite 4 + Champion). You know what pokemon are and their movesets, it's OK. But Game Freak shouldn't let you overlevel too much, because it makes the game boring, so the levels of these pokemon should be 2-3 higher than your strongest pokemon' one.
(2) Increase the difficulty of the challenges accordingly with the automatic addition of different movesets and pokemons to Elite 4 & Champion's team.
(3) Add a limitation which excludes pokemon on your party too much leveled.
===> fixing this thing is possible at some extent.


I always fight the Legue being underleveled. It's the Legue on a pokemon game, it's not Showdown.

You also just blatantly ignored the fact that even if they added 2-3 levels to the League, you still can out level them. And when it comes to the E4 banning too high level of Pokemon, how are you going to use level 100 Pokemon in future matches against them for training/leveling Pokemon? Remove the level cap after the first win? Game Freak isn't going to implement something like that, unfortunately.

 

[Pikachu315111]

What they could do is roll extra RNs if we want to play that game. Something like, instead of passing the accuracy test once, you have to pass it twice if your opponent used Double Team (lowering the 85% accuracy move to 72.2% accuracy.

And it would provide an interesting use to Brightpowder, Snow Cloak, and Sand Veil which cause a set accuracy decrease. Brightpowder decreases opponent's accuracy by 20% turning a move like Thunder's 70% accuracy into a move with 50% accuracy. Using Double Team once would lower that accuracy to 25%. At least then it's more of a reliable way of reducing the odds of hitting a hard hitting but low accuracy move.

Obviously then, conversely raising accuracy or lowering evasion would provide you extra dies to hitting and the number of ones you roll to get a hit would depend on the difference between accuracy modifier and evasion modifier. So, say you have +2 accuracy, you will roll 3 RNs and only need one to hit. But say you have +2 accuracy and your opponent has +3 evasion, you will roll 2 RNs and need to hit them both to hit.

That way we can keep evasion consistent and even make real strategies revolving around reducing the hit percentage.

(Imagine having Bright Powder under the effect of Snow Cloak/Sand Veil with an evasion boost - Thunder would have a 9% probability of hitting with this formula)

I honestly don't see how that's any better, unless you mean roll a dice for each Evasion change. Like if you opponent is holding Bright Powder, has Sand Veil active, and used Double Team then the RNG would have to roll the dice three times for each individual change instead of one roll against the sum of all changes.

 

[Norne]

I really think evasion holds no purpose on competitive gaming.

Nintendo thinks they are part of their legacy and they are here to stay. We can propose the moon and the stars sadly nothing will change.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

I honestly don't see how that's any better, unless you mean roll a dice for each Evasion change. Like if you opponent is holding Bright Powder, has Sand Veil active, and used Double Team then the RNG would have to roll the dice three times for each individual change instead of one roll against the sum of all changes.

Incoming wall of text here



Well, I'd assume Bright Powder and Sand Veil would continue being their constant accuracy modifier of like -20% along with Wide Lens increasing the accuracy modifier.

But effectively the hit probability would be (Move Accuracy - Item/Ability Modifiers)^(n+1) for a net increased evasion modifier and a "nice" sum of binomial random values for the net increased accuracy.

What this DOES do is punish the use of lower accuracy moves when your total accuracy modifier is negative (your accuracy stage - opponent's evasion stage < 0) while keeping high accuracy moves relatively uneffected (a 100% accurate move would, without the effect of items and abilities, always hit. Even at max evasion with min accuracy, a move that hits 95% of the time will still hit 54% of the time. Meanwhile, at max evasion with min accuracy, Focus Blast and Thunder will only hit 1.38% of the time.

The items and abilities, in my opinion, would provide at least some strategic use when combined with like double team and minimize. I currently accept low accuracy as a fair strategy of sorts (especially after playing through the newest Fire Emblem) so what those items would be useful for, in terms of evasion is give 100% accurate moves a chance to miss that compounds with evasion. Like, for instance, Sand Veil Garchomp with Bright Powder uses Double Team. An opponent's Ice Beam will only have 36% of hitting then. If it uses it again, the opponent will only hit with a 21% accuracy. At least with that combination, it becomes less...pure cheese...and more about revolving a strategy around it.

In some games (including some PVP games), there's that whole possibility of being an "Evasion Tank" where your opponent has such a low probability of hitting you that, even though you die instantly from any attack, you can get attacked for days because the odds of being hit are low. What this would change is, like, forcing you to build your Pokemon around NOT being hit for it to succeed rather than just slapping Double Team on it (because Double Team alone won't save your Garchomp from a 100% accurate Ice Beam with this system).

---

I guess now that I think of it, I do believe accuracy/evasion modification COULD be made competitive, but only if you would have to build a whole Pokemon around it to turn it into a competitive strategy. Something like having to devote moves, abilities, and items to making even a remotely usable evasion abuser. However, as it is now where the items and abilities are mostly niche that some accuracy abusers don't even use and where you can just slap on Double Team anywhere to get the decent quality on any Pokemon, it's not really competitive.

 

[Karxrida]

Or we can go with the really simple solution with hypothetical stuff and axe the evasion-boosting mechanic entirely.

Nothing wrong with accuracy due to legitimate risk/reward stuff.

 

[Lady Vader]

Norne is right: Evasion isn't going anywhere and it likely won't ever change. But here's the thing: not many people use Evasion. Seriously, the number of real people I've encountered who use Evasion is very, very small. Some of you are saying, "Vader, most of the people you play against play by Smogon rules, which bans it or play VGC where it is completely impractical!" Even amongst the many, many, MANY casual trainers I've fought against, Evasion is still near unheard of. Outside of Anything Goes on Showdown and an astonishing small number of people in the Kanto Classic (again, I though everyone was going to use Minimize Clefable), I think I can count the number of times I've encountered people trying to use evasion against me on one hand across three generations (and I can only think of one case this gen)! In fact, I bet that most battles with Evasion tend to be those very Tower/Subway/Maison battles that drive many of us mad.

 

[Kurona]

Norne is right: Evasion isn't going anywhere and it likely won't ever change. But here's the thing: not many people use Evasion. Seriously, the number of real people I've encountered who use Evasion is very, very small. Some of you are saying, "Vader, most of the people you play against play by Smogon rules, which bans it or play VGC where it is completely impractical!" Even amongst the many, many, MANY casual trainers I've fought against, Evasion is still near unheard of. Outside of Anything Goes on Showdown and an astonishing small number of people in the Kanto Classic (again, I though everyone was going to use Minimize Clefable), I think I can count the number of times I've encountered people trying to use evasion against me on one hand across three generations (and I can only think of one case this gen)! In fact, I bet that most battles with Evasion tend to be those very Tower/Subway/Maison battles that drive many of us mad.

That is one of the bigger reasons I want it to go away honestly; just the battle facilities abusing it which is just really unfair. ... other big reason being I don't want another big commotion like Verlisify abusing Double Team Drifblim a while back