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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
I wonder if the designers were originally unsure of whether to designate the Dragon or the Ghost type to the Special side, and decided to go for Dragon for balance reasons. Not only were there very few Dragon types at the time, but those that existed were characterized by high Attack stats - which might have been considered overpowered in tandem with physical STAB. Likewise, Ghost types had good Special stats, and would have made very good use out of Special STAB in later generations, with additions to the move pool. They probably wanted a roughly even number of physical and special types, so making both either or the other would have tipped that balance off.
As for Dark and Steel, it's easy enough to see why Dark would be Special. The designers wanted one of the new types to be physical, one special, and Steel is so much more physical than the abstract concept of "Dark" or "Evil". So Steel got to pick the Special card, and Dark was relegated to what was left.
Then later, they realized that splitting the types themselves into two categories, while there already were plenty of moves that rightfully should belong in the other category, was kinda stupid, so they decided to revamp the whole system, and all was well.
As for Dark and Steel, it's easy enough to see why Dark would be Special. The designers wanted one of the new types to be physical, one special, and Steel is so much more physical than the abstract concept of "Dark" or "Evil". So Steel got to pick the Special card, and Dark was relegated to what was left.
Then later, they realized that splitting the types themselves into two categories, while there already were plenty of moves that rightfully should belong in the other category, was kinda stupid, so they decided to revamp the whole system, and all was well.
That sort of makes sense... except the only Dragon move in Gen 1 was Dragon Rage. So.
Yes, but Gold and Silver were already underway when RBY came out, with many Gen I concepts and Pokémon pushed to those games, so the designers knew they had to plan for the future. With more games there would be more Pokémon and more moves, and the system had to account for that. Save for the alteration to the Special stat, they kept the system in place for three generations, after all, but the first bricks were laid during RBY's pre-design.
Why is lick a ghost move? I swear it was originally intended for Ghastly. The next time I lick something I'm really going to spook them...
True... but then in Gen I the only Ghost-type was the Ghastly family which focused on the Special with a low Attack stat. Not saying you're wrong, but it's like the left hand didn't know what the right one was doing. Also the Elemental Punches were Special, so at some point it seemed like they stopped caring to stay in the realms of that move Category (which became more evident in Gen II & III until remembering in Gen IV and deciding to split).
I don't think Dragon being placed in Special had anything to do with balance. I think the line of thinking was more "Dragon are mythical creatures who's main weapons is breathing fire. Special". In that respect I could also see maybe Ghost being made into Physical since they sort of have a parallel relationship to corporeal beings, their affects on them probably being physically affecting than energy based like what the Special category is thought as being. That and as Kurona said with Ghost's only damaging move being Lick (I guess in the way Night Shade could be them scaring the opponent so badly the opponent physically hurt themselves from shock) and the only Dragon move being Dragon Rage (which is displayed as them breathing fire). But as I said that logic went out the door somewhere in the transition to Gen II.
Also I would say if they wanted to keep things balance in Gen II made both the new types Physical and switch Ghost to Special. Actually it seems like the moves creator thought that was the case since Shadow Ball decreased Special Defense and a lot of Dark-type moves sound like physical actions (biting, beating up, stealing, chasing after, etc.).
It just something from Japanese culture.
Considering a Lion Pokémon with the ability Moxie specializes in Special Attack, the left and right STILL don't know what each other is doing from time to time.
Shadow ball! All you need is shadow ball Gengar!
Which was a physical move in Gens II and III. Despite the fact it always dropped Sp. Def. And Crunch (which was a Special move) always dropped Def.
Even the move designers knew that the non-physical/special split sucked in Generation II.
Actually Crunch lowered Sp. Def. in Gens 2 and 3.
Wait, really?
*checks Bulbapedia*
Huh. Well, I feel stupid. I guess I just assumed due to the fact they are very similar (base 80, dropped a defensive stat, etc.) that they had the same quirk.
Don't worry, I thought so to until I checked to be sure. Shadow Ball still decreased Special Defense though.
BUT Beat Up used each attacking Pokemon's base Attack stat despite Dark being a Special type.
Beat Up doesn't bother me as much as it is using a completely unique damage output, so it doing something different from what the type was back then doesn't seem as bad (like how Night Shade could hit Normal and Psychic-type Pokémon in Generation I when those types were immune. True, that was changed in Generation II so that Normal was immune, but still).
Silly pokemon. This is why new content can be better.
New unpopular opinion: I like Bidoof. I think it is a cute pokemon and I like the way it is designed like a beaver. I like bibarel as well. I like how it gains the water type and I think Bidoof is useful as a HM slave and in a nuzlocke. It has a an ok move pool compared to some pokemon like Magikarp. I'm sorry if I offended anyone...
New unpopular opinion: I like Bidoof. I think it is a cute pokemon and I like the way it is designed like a beaver. I like bibarel as well. I like how it gains the water type and I think Bidoof is useful as a HM slave and in a nuzlocke. It has a an ok move pool compared to some pokemon like Magikarp. I'm sorry if I offended anyone...
Although it isn't a problem in competitive battles, I feel that the second generation did a poor job at providing proper Psychic-Type counters in-game:
Bug:
Only two new moves are Bug-Type, Fury Cutter and Megahorn (Hidden Power will be ignored throught this post for being unreliable in-game). Fury Cutter is as bad as the baggage from Gen 1 (even though there's actual STAB users for it) and Megahorn is held by Heracross, who is weak to Psychic itself. The other bug-types introduced are generally on the weak side, with only Scizor and Heracross having high physical attack (Scizor requires a trade with an item you get after the Elite Four while Heracross, again, is weak to Psychic). Forretress has mediocre Attack and zero STAB moves (other than one Egg move).
Ghost:
Shadow Ball is actually a decent option to hit Psychics (other than Girafarig), as they tend to be physically frail. However, Gengar can't really do anything other than hit Psychics with Shadow Ball, while Misdreavus is only on Mt. Silver (and still has better things to do). Problem is that you get the TM only once, though.
Dark:
Bite and Faint Attack are the only regularly available Dark moves with decent base power (and run off of the Special Attack, while their users tend to be physically inclined). As for Crunch, that move is only learned by Umbreon, Snubbull's line and Girafarig. While you can get Umbreon in Goldenrod with some excessive Happiness grinding (and not accidentally getting Espeon instead), Houndour is underlevelled in some Kanto routes and Murkrow, Sneasel and Tyranitar all require you to have 16 badges, where the only Psychic left to check is Red's Espeon.
Steel:
Another defensive counter for Psychic. Reminder that Metal Coat is an item on the S.S. Aqua, so Steelix and Scizor are out of reach for about two thirds of the game (but their performance is pretty passable). Magnemite is reasonably available right after Whitney, but let's face it, it's too frail to tank special attacks, even with resistance. Skarmory is a version exclusive, so you can't get it in Gold (and it's better against physical attacks anyway). Pineco evolves late and does very poorly, so it's unlikely you want to put up with the effort for a Steel-Type that's inferior to both Scizor and Skarmory.
No wonder Umbreon is so popular - it was pretty much the only Dark-Type available for in-game runs and the only switch-in against Psychic-Type moves.
Bug:
Only two new moves are Bug-Type, Fury Cutter and Megahorn (Hidden Power will be ignored throught this post for being unreliable in-game). Fury Cutter is as bad as the baggage from Gen 1 (even though there's actual STAB users for it) and Megahorn is held by Heracross, who is weak to Psychic itself. The other bug-types introduced are generally on the weak side, with only Scizor and Heracross having high physical attack (Scizor requires a trade with an item you get after the Elite Four while Heracross, again, is weak to Psychic). Forretress has mediocre Attack and zero STAB moves (other than one Egg move).
Ghost:
Shadow Ball is actually a decent option to hit Psychics (other than Girafarig), as they tend to be physically frail. However, Gengar can't really do anything other than hit Psychics with Shadow Ball, while Misdreavus is only on Mt. Silver (and still has better things to do). Problem is that you get the TM only once, though.
Dark:
Bite and Faint Attack are the only regularly available Dark moves with decent base power (and run off of the Special Attack, while their users tend to be physically inclined). As for Crunch, that move is only learned by Umbreon, Snubbull's line and Girafarig. While you can get Umbreon in Goldenrod with some excessive Happiness grinding (and not accidentally getting Espeon instead), Houndour is underlevelled in some Kanto routes and Murkrow, Sneasel and Tyranitar all require you to have 16 badges, where the only Psychic left to check is Red's Espeon.
Steel:
Another defensive counter for Psychic. Reminder that Metal Coat is an item on the S.S. Aqua, so Steelix and Scizor are out of reach for about two thirds of the game (but their performance is pretty passable). Magnemite is reasonably available right after Whitney, but let's face it, it's too frail to tank special attacks, even with resistance. Skarmory is a version exclusive, so you can't get it in Gold (and it's better against physical attacks anyway). Pineco evolves late and does very poorly, so it's unlikely you want to put up with the effort for a Steel-Type that's inferior to both Scizor and Skarmory.
No wonder Umbreon is so popular - it was pretty much the only Dark-Type available for in-game runs and the only switch-in against Psychic-Type moves.
I... used Umbreon in-game in Crystal and Heartgold. ... I was young.
It was alright actually. Nothing I'd go through again but at least it wasn't Delcatty.
I also used it back in the original Gold (and of course Colosseum but that doesn't count). I was also young and didn't really know much about stats then and really didn't care. It also helps when you're overleveled and OHKOing nearly anything no matter how low your attacking stats are.
I just want to say, trainers are the best idea ever. I'm playing FFX right now and because there is nothing like trainers the game has to throw a million bosses at you. They fit the lore perfectly and give you a tough fight without being a boss. Imagine how boring the games would be if you only fought wild Pokémon between gyms. I dunno, just something I was thinking about.
How is that unpopular? Umbreon is awesome!
Because a Pokemon's design, competitive viability, or overall coolness has no bearing on its usefulness in a specific single-player scenario. And while Umbreon is the easiest Dark-type to get, it still has to deal with being primarily a wall in a game mode where hyper offense rules the day.
It's the only viable Dark-Type, I tell you - Murkrow and Houndour are Level 20/15 in Kanto when most of your team is Level ~45+, Sneasel and Tyranitar are on mount Silver (Sneasel comes in Ice Path in Crystal instead, but it's easily worse than Umbreon).
I wasn't saying it as an unpopular opinion; I was replying to Karxrida . To be fair it probably wasn't that obvious without me quoting him.
Unpopular opinion then I guess I don't like Umbreon that much or using it; since I was a kid I don't like it as much as I used to. ... would it also be unpopular to say my favourite eeveelutions are Leafeon and Sylveon? IDK I get the feeling every eeveelution is popular to some degree because Eevee.
I also used Umbreon on my team the first time I played through Silver. Though it evolved rather late, when I was on the boat to Kanto. Then I don't know how much I actually used it in the post-game either. That said, I do remember it working quite well, it had a moveset of Faint Attack, Psychic, Shadow Ball and the last move was Moonlight IIRC.
To get back on track, a new unpopular opionon... wish I had one. Okay, one that I have been thinking about for a while now, not going to get into an overly long explanation though. I think that visually, both in terms of design and technical details, Platinum looks better than HG/SS. I like how they spiced up Sinnoh a bit from D/P, most areas look much better and the caves feel more like actual caves as opposed to being highly generic in D/P. I feel like HG/SS took a few steps back, the caves are once again very generic, and the overall visual style feels a bit bland and boring compared to Platinum. Some areas are really gorgeous though, such as the Bellchime Trail and the Cerulean Gym, but those are rather few compared to what Platinum has to offer.
To get back on track, a new unpopular opionon... wish I had one. Okay, one that I have been thinking about for a while now, not going to get into an overly long explanation though. I think that visually, both in terms of design and technical details, Platinum looks better than HG/SS. I like how they spiced up Sinnoh a bit from D/P, most areas look much better and the caves feel more like actual caves as opposed to being highly generic in D/P. I feel like HG/SS took a few steps back, the caves are once again very generic, and the overall visual style feels a bit bland and boring compared to Platinum. Some areas are really gorgeous though, such as the Bellchime Trail and the Cerulean Gym, but those are rather few compared to what Platinum has to offer.
Speaking about Platinum... I was really disappointed with no Kalos sequel.
However, I think it might actually be better for Pokemon without a Kalos sequel. Maybe because they found that sequels do not really milk that much.
Also, for the 20th anniversary which should be big, if they release a sequel, everyone would think they are milking their old stuff again.
I agree that they should give something completely new for the 20th anniversary.
And if there was one year before the 20th, then maybe Sun Moon wouldn't be so hyped.
However, I think it might actually be better for Pokemon without a Kalos sequel. Maybe because they found that sequels do not really milk that much.
Also, for the 20th anniversary which should be big, if they release a sequel, everyone would think they are milking their old stuff again.
I agree that they should give something completely new for the 20th anniversary.
And if there was one year before the 20th, then maybe Sun Moon wouldn't be so hyped.