Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

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Fiorina makes sense for a desperate-to-stop-Trump campaign. She's probably the only person who ever successfully dinged Trump in a debate in a way that convinced even some of Trump's supporters. She also was reasonably popular among female republican voters and anything that helps Cruz keep Trump under 50% in states/districts the rest of the way is huge in reducing his delegate haul. Women are one of Trump's worst demographics (and one of Cruz's best), indicating maybe Fiorina can get more to jump ship to Cruz.
 
Cruz and Bernie on suicide watch. Can't stump the Trump!

Yep, Trump will power through this nomination session. He has an incredibly good chance of getting the 1237 either before or during the convention, and even if he doesn't, he has a strong chance of being chosen by the party. The leadership doesn't like him, but they are also motivated by sheer fear.

Bernie's going on now only because of obstinateness at this point. He lost the nomination during Super Tuesday, but people still believe he's winning.

 
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As much as I would like to see a Sanders vs. Trump match up (would make for the best memes) it's not gonna happen. Bernie supporters were somewhat delusional in the first place thinking they could beat HRC when she's guaranteed all (the vast majority, at least) of the super delegates. They've been running on fumes, without a major victory since Wisconsin, possibly as far back as Michigan (??? maybe, i haven't been keeping up with the Democrat primaries) Since Cruz chose Fiorina as his running mate (what an idiot, he's absolutely not going to get the nom, despite what the political class and pundits think and want) I'd like to ask what you guys think of a Trump/Webb ticket, is it possible, would it be a good ticket?
 
Cruz and Bernie on suicide watch. Can't stump the Trump!

Bernie on heart attack watch (I'm a Bernie supporter, but let's face it, he's no spring chicken!). Cruz on the other hand, considering that he is the only presidential candidate in the history of our country to have the audacity to name his running mate, should be on suicide watch. He might well be the laughing stock of Capitol Hill, especially because nobody likes him!

My father's contacts have told him who Trump is likely to pick as his running mate.
 
Webb? As in Jim Webb?

That could actually be a good choice for Trump. A lot of his coalition comes from dissatisfied Democrats, so Jim Webb would only help him to exploit this. Webb could also have personality synergy with Trump. He'd be a partner with less bombast to help balance out Trump without taking away from his appeal.
 
As much as I would like to see a Sanders vs. Trump match up (would make for the best memes) it's not gonna happen. Bernie supporters were somewhat delusional in the first place thinking they could beat HRC when she's guaranteed all (the vast majority, at least) of the super delegates. They've been running on fumes, without a major victory since Wisconsin, possibly as far back as Michigan (??? maybe, i haven't been keeping up with the Democrat primaries)

Possibly Michigan? You really haven't been paying attention, so I wouldn't be bandying about the word delusional. Sanders won 7 states in a row before New York, which was going to make or break the campaign. I have no doubt that a New York victory would have led to wins in 4/5 of last Tuesday's states, and guaranteed a California victory. And while we saw much larger crowds around Bernie in New York, large numbers of them weren't registered to vote before March 25th, which was a day before Bernie really hit his winning stride.

And no one knows how guaranteed superdelegates would have been if Bernie had gotten a greater amount of normal delegates. I'd have liked to see what hell broke loose if they didn't switch sides. Some of their offices are still probably in danger due to disgruntled voters in states that Bernie has won.

Bernie has lost the presidency, but any future victories, esp the very possible California, can only reinforce the political movement behind Bernie and like-minded political candidates. I'd like to see Bernie or a similar candidate in 2020, and everyone going back to being depressed helpless non-voters is not going to do that.

The fact is that Bernie has done better than any anti-establishment candidate ever... except for Trump who is winning his race (and that is bad for other reasons, but the timing isn't a coincidence). This shouldn't be a weird election, it should be a change in direction. I'd say HRC should be the establishment's last hurrah, but, she's gonna lose to Trump.

All in all, there's no reason for people to be condescending pricks toward voters in this thread. Candidates don't use this forum, but voters do.
 
Possibly Michigan? You really haven't been paying attention, so I wouldn't be bandying about the word delusional. Sanders won 7 states in a row before New York, which was going to make or break the campaign. I have no doubt that a New York victory would have led to wins in 4/5 of last Tuesday's states, and guaranteed a California victory. And while we saw much larger crowds around Bernie in New York, large numbers of them weren't registered to vote before March 25th, which was a day before Bernie really hit his winning stride.

And no one knows how guaranteed superdelegates would have been if Bernie had gotten a greater amount of normal delegates. I'd have liked to see what hell broke loose if they didn't switch sides. Some of their offices are still probably in danger due to disgruntled voters in states that Bernie has won.

Bernie has lost the presidency, but any future victories, esp the very possible California, can only reinforce the political movement behind Bernie and like-minded political candidates. I'd like to see Bernie or a similar candidate in 2020, and everyone going back to being depressed helpless non-voters is not going to do that.

The fact is that Bernie has done better than any anti-establishment candidate ever... except for Trump who is winning his race (and that is bad for other reasons, but the timing isn't a coincidence). This shouldn't be a weird election, it should be a change in direction. I'd say HRC should be the establishment's last hurrah, but, she's gonna lose to Trump.

All in all, there's no reason for people to be condescending pricks toward voters in this thread. Candidates don't use this forum, but voters do.

The large margin by which Clinton won over Sanders in New York honestly indicates that Sanders never stood a chance. If he was banking on New York, then it only implies that he didn't know what he was doing. Furthermore, even if by some magic force Sanders did get more pledged delegates than Clinton, there would hardly be as much super delegate switching as you imply. I'd say maybe 10 or 20 super delegates would switch, but no more. Super delegates exist to exercise the will of the DNC: they were invented exactly because of foresight about candidates like Bernie Sanders. It's their job to bolster the party pick against some outsider. It doesn't matter how many people decide to go out and protest, the party will still nominate Clinton.

We already know how Sanders' large crowds fail to turn into winning margins. He consistently gets bigger crowds than Clinton, but he merely attracts people, while Clinton voters. Even if there are massive protests against the DNC nominating Clinton, the DNC knows that these protests and acts of violence would be ultimately more farcical than fearsome. These people didn't have the aptitude to make Sanders win, are they going to have the aptitude to damage us?

And no, Sanders ultimately won't make that much of a difference. We have seen this sort of activity in the 1960s. College student protests were massive, but these college students eventually grew up, and led to the biggest swing in favor of conservatism in the 20th century with Reagan only a mere 15 years later. Likewise, I believe as many Sanders supporters get to the point where they will actually have to pay taxes themselves, they'll take a step back or two from socialism. There's Sanders-esque senators popping up already, but, like Sanders, they're not getting the nominations either.

Likewise, I believe America right now is due for a large conservative swing. Trump will have a huge effect on American politics, one that will help facilitate the swing and probably last for decades. Where Sanders has failed, Trump has succeeded - he can actually get the nomination. And if he wins, that could usher in a new era. The DNC is moving to the center. Trump merely has to pull them further right.
 
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Likewise, I believe America right now is due for a large conservative swing. Trump will have a huge effect on American politics, one that will help facilitate the swing and probably last for decades. Where Sanders has failed, Trump has succeeded - he can actually get the nomination. And if he wins, that could usher in a new era. The DNC is moving to the center. Trump merely has to pull them further right.

What are you talking about? The Democratic Party is center-right at best. The few candidates/politicians who are to the genuinely to the left are simply outliers. The Republican party is a solid right, and many of its candidates/politicians are far-right. Even most "moderate" politicians from either party are superficially different.

American politics are terribly conservative compared to the rest of the Western world. If there's a Republican majority, I don't see how there's much more to go before the American "center" is equivalent to the marginal nationalist parties of Europe. That's not good.
 
Super delegates exist to exercise the will of the DNC: they were invented exactly because of foresight about candidates like Bernie Sanders. It's their job to bolster the party pick against some outsider. It doesn't matter how many people decide to go out and protest, the party will still nominate Clinton.

We already know how Sanders' large crowds fail to turn into winning margins. He consistently gets bigger crowds than Clinton, but he merely attracts people, while Clinton voters. Even if there are massive protests against the DNC nominating Clinton, the DNC knows that these protests and acts of violence would be ultimately more farcical than fearsome.

"attracts people but not voters" you know that people ARE voters right? We don't have a 3/5 law anymore. But what we DO have are current laws and systems that suppress voters in order to favor certain types of candidates (oh right, you mentioned and support one of them, so you can't even deny it). Frankly, you're talking as if the DNC is a fascist organization and not a political party in a democracy. And even if that's true, you're acting like that's a good thing. Do you hold these beliefs seriously, or are you just that happy that your status quo pawn is going to win as a result? Either way, it's pretty heinous.

I pay taxes. I pay twice as much taxes ever since I moved from a radically liberal state to a radically conservative one. Funny that. But most of those people that you suggest will become conservative because "lol taxes" are lower class or will be lower class as the middle class shrinks further (a much more acute factor than it was pre-Reagan). Liberals want more fair taxing for the upper class, it's conservatives who want a flat tax that hurts the lower class more. Also, you suggest that everyone switched sides after the 60s, but I know there's at least one good example of a guy who has stuck to his guns since then. I forget names sometimes, but I swear it's relevant to this topic...

Likewise, I believe America right now is due for a large conservative swing. Trump will have a huge effect on American politics, one that will help facilitate the swing and probably last for decades. Where Sanders has failed, Trump has succeeded - he can actually get the nomination. And if he wins, that could usher in a new era. The DNC is moving to the center. Trump merely has to pull them further right.

America is already way more conservative than the rest of the first world. The idea that America's version of conservatives are somehow owed a victory after 8 years is depressing, though increasingly likely. But to suggest that we SHOULD be more to the right, and that this is maybe a good thing... again, what the hell? You don't even seem to be a conservative. It also smacks of delusion in general. For all that I expect Hillary to live up to none of her promises, Bernie has forced the DNC to sway FAR to the left. Hillary was never talking about breaking up the banks (which she won't do anyway, but still) before he was.

I DO agree on the other hand that there will be more Trumps in the future, now that everyone sees how successful it can be.
 
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If Trump is the one ushering in a new era, that's pretty scary. I mean, I really disagree with some of the things he has said on a fundamental level, and he won't do a thing about climate change, possibly one of the greatest challenges and threats of our generation. Deliberately killing the families of ISIS on purpose is the big no-no that I disagree with, and he only wouldn't do it because he wouldn't have the authority to order the military to do so. I also don't think he has focused enough on how the filthy rich are just as responsible for the mess that our country is in currently, nor what he gonna do about it.
And I'm hoping when he says America first, he doesn't mean in a "screw everyone else" kinda way.

He also hasn't said definitely said he would get money out of the political and court systems, which is also I dare say a huge threat to our democratic system, where as Bernie said that he would definitely end money in the presidential races, which while not enough, is a start.
 
What are you talking about? The Democratic Party is center-right at best. The few candidates/politicians who are to the genuinely to the left are simply outliers. The Republican party is a solid right, and many of its candidates/politicians are far-right. Even most "moderate" politicians from either party are superficially different.

American politics are terribly conservative compared to the rest of the Western world. If there's a Republican majority, I don't see how there's much more to go before the American "center" is equivalent to the marginal nationalist parties of Europe. That's not good.

When I talk about left/right in the context of an American election, which is this context here, I use the American left/right political spectrum. I am completely aware that the Democrats would probably be centrists in some other country like the U.K., but they are not centrists in the U.S. If I were talking about the U.K. elections, I would obviously not use the American political spectrum. Likewise, I will not use a foreign political spectrum here.

Furthermore, there is Republican majority already. They control the House, Senate, and a majority of the states. They just need to have the presidency and a conservative justice (which a Trump will put in if he gets elected) to have near complete control of the U.S. Their power already and their capacity to obtain even more power in the near future is just one of the reasons why I believe a conservative swing will occur within the next decade.

"attracts people but not voters" you know that people ARE voters right? We don't have a 3/5 law anymore. But what we DO have are current laws and systems that suppress voters in order to favor certain types of candidates (oh right, you mentioned and support one of them, so you can't even deny it). Frankly, you're talking as if the DNC is a fascist organization and not a political party in a democracy. And even if that's true, you're acting like that's a good thing. Do you hold these beliefs seriously, or are you just that happy that your status quo pawn is going to win as a result? Either way, it's pretty heinous.

I pay taxes. I pay twice as much taxes ever since I moved from a radically liberal state to a radically conservative one. Funny that. But most of those people that you suggest will become conservative because "lol taxes" are lower class or will be lower class as the middle class shrinks further (a much more acute factor than it was pre-Reagan). Liberals want more fair taxing for the upper class, it's conservatives who want a flat tax that hurts the lower class more. Also, you suggest that everyone switched sides after the 60s, but I know there's at least one good example of a guy who has stuck to his guns since then. I forget names sometimes, but I swear it's relevant to this topic...



America is already way more conservative than the rest of the first world. The idea that America's version of conservatives are somehow owed a victory after 8 years is depressing, though increasingly likely. But to suggest that we SHOULD be more to the right, and that this is maybe a good thing... again, what the hell? You don't even seem to be a conservative. It also smacks of delusion in general. For all that I expect Hillary to live up to none of her promises, Bernie has forced the DNC to sway FAR to the left. Hillary was never talking about breaking up the banks (which she won't do anyway, but still) before he was.

I DO agree on the other hand that there will be more Trumps in the future, now that everyone sees how successful it can be.

Sanders primarily attracts millenials, who simply don't vote as much as older voters. We can see it in this link: http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/demographics
Going down to "Turnout Rates: Age" shows the discrepancy clearly. I'll agree there's some shenanigans going on, but I doubt the DNC would even bother trying to rig specific primaries/caucuses for Hillary when they have the super delegates to give her the nomination anyway, even if Bernie gets more pledged delegates. I really only see it being used for PR, and I don't think PR is that important at this point anyway.

Lastly, this might be a bit of a tangent, but I find your statement, along the lines of "America is much more conservative than the rest of the first world," not necessarily true. America is more conservative than Western Europe, Australia, and New Zealand, among some others. There are a great deal of first world countries that are equally, or more, conservative than the U.S. In East Asia, there are South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore; all highly free-market oriented, and, in the case of the former three, highly nationalist. There are also the countries that were formerly part of the Soviet Bloc, like Poland or Lithuania. These countries are on the rise, and in most cases highly conservative and anti-communist. They are not as developed as Western Europe (I should probably specify North-Western Europe, since I'd say most of the former Soviet Bloc countries are waaaaaay more developed than Italy, Spain, or Portugal), but they are still quite developed, and only getting more developed. There is also Chile, the only developed country in Latin America, and Israel, the only developed country in the Middle East. Both are quite conservative. And I'm still probably leaving some countries out.

Long story short, the U.S. has a lot of peers.
 
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When I talk about left/right in the context of an American election, which is this context here, I use the American left/right political spectrum. I am completely aware that the Democrats would probably be centrists in some other country like the U.K., but they are not centrists in the U.S. If I were talking about the U.K. elections, I would obviously not use the American political spectrum. Likewise, I will not use a foreign political spectrum here.

The American political spectrum is a joke. The acceptable range of ideas is small enough already. And it's completely unacceptable. It should be compared to the larger political atmosphere as a result.

For example, Obama is precariously pro-business, supports foreign intervention to protect American interests*, supports extending mass surveillance, and other conservative policies (all of which are the basis of modern Republicans and Democratic platforms in obfuscated ways), but since he's in the Democratic party and has supported some social policies more progressive than the mid-20th century he's a "leftist menace." If had been a Republican, he'd have been lambasted as a "conservative terror" by the American left.

*: E.g., those that benefit corporations. Not to protect the American people.

It's interesting that many of those countries those countries you listed that are "conservative," many of them share Western-sans-US "leftist" policies. For example, most (maybe all?) of them have a national healthcare system, yet even the Democratic party has been unwilling to commit to such a policy, even when there was a Democratic majority and a Democratic president.

And frankly, the excuse of countries with similarly bad policies, or worse policies, is absurd. We (as a country) should look towards improving, not excusing our failures with flimsy examples. When income inequality is high, we shouldn't say it's worse in Poortonia--we should instead look to those who do better, and act accordingly. We shouldn't say our healthcare system isn't as bad as Zombiebwe, we should look to those who do better, and act accordingly. The same goes for the rest of the issues corroding our country.
 
The American political spectrum is a joke. The acceptable range of ideas is small enough already. And it's completely unacceptable. It should be compared to the larger political atmosphere as a result.

For example, Obama is precariously pro-business, supports foreign intervention to protect American interests*, supports extending mass surveillance, and other conservative policies (all of which are the basis of modern Republicans and Democratic platforms in obfuscated ways), but since he's in the Democratic party and has supported some social policies more progressive than the mid-20th century he's a "leftist menace." If had been a Republican, he'd have been lambasted as a "conservative terror" by the American left.

*: E.g., those that benefit corporations. Not to protect the American people.

It's interesting that many of those countries those countries you listed that are "conservative," many of them share Western-sans-US "leftist" policies. For example, most (maybe all?) of them have a national healthcare system, yet even the Democratic party has been unwilling to commit to such a policy, even when there was a Democratic majority and a Democratic president.

And frankly, the excuse of countries with similarly bad policies, or worse policies, is absurd. We (as a country) should look towards improving, not excusing our failures with flimsy examples. When income inequality is high, we shouldn't say it's worse in Poortonia--we should instead look to those who do better, and act accordingly. We shouldn't say our healthcare system isn't as bad as Zombiebwe, we should look to those who do better, and act accordingly. The same goes for the rest of the issues corroding our country.

In no universe did the developed countries I listed have "bad policies". Singapore and Hong Kong are leagues better in living standards than most of Western Europe, in no small part due to their pro-business policies. Moreover, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan either have a history of pro-business policies or a pro-business party in power currently, and they rival or even exceed Western Europe in living standards. If we include Western European countries with actually bad policies, like Italy, Spain, Portugal, and perhaps Belgium, then the countries in East Asia blow Western Europe out of the water. Chile is the only developed country in South America due to its pro-business policies. The former Soviet Bloc is doing incredibly well, in no small part due to their pro-business policies. They survived the Great Recession far better than Western Europe as a whole, and they have higher growth rates in general. I could go on.

Furthermore, being pro-surveillance is nothing unique to the Dems. Tony Blair of the British Labor Party created the PRESTON mass surveillance program, which rivals and in some cases exceeds what the NSA is doing in intrusiveness - and the next Labor PM, Gordon Brown, continued it. The program was all documented in a Snowden leak. Britain is supposed to be left of the U.S., but their own left wing party engaged in mass surveillance. Britain, with is political spectrum that apparently isn't a joke, is still doing this right now. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/12/snowden-state-surveillance-britain-no-limits

The subtitle is important: "Whistleblower and former NSA analyst [Snowden] says UK regulation allows GCHQ snooping to go beyond anything seen in US". Most Western European nations other than Britain have documented mass surveillance programs as well, which also equal the NSA in intrusiveness at the very least. Yes, Britain has a Conservative government right now, but as I said before, the Labor party was completely complicit in this too.

Now, this of course, is not to excuse U.S. mass surveillance. This is merely to say that there is, quite frankly, an NSA in every country. Some countries just have better PR.

You also have to consider the reason why healthcare is ostensibly better in countries with single payer (which, I should add, is not equal to universal healthcare) is because the U.S. subsidizes the healthcare of the rest of the world. The U.S. accounts for 46 percent of global life sciences research and development, a proportion far higher than any other country, even adjusting for GDP or population. In fact, it produces many more (I mean way more) medical inventions than the entire EU, which has about 200 million more people. That is not in spite of, but because of, the U.S. private system.

And the U.S. doesn't get paid for about half of it. The process is something like this:

1. U.S. Firm designs new drug/piece of medical equipment. The process is extremely expensive not just due to development but to rigorous testing and FDA hurdles.
2. U.S. Firm accumulates huge cost from this process.
3. U.S. Firm must price invention highly in order to recoup cost and have money left over for further operations before the patent expires.
4. Most single payer countries set drug/equipment prices - so they buy the invention at a mandatory small price that's hardly enough to help the firm recoup costs, let alone have more R&D money.
5. In order to recoup R&D, U.S. Firm must price even higher in the U.S.

In a sense, the U.S. has to go through the bother of shouldering the costs of people who will never pay back. If you live in a country with single payer, and you've even gone to the hospital, got a checkup, etc., you've almost certainly been helped by a U.S. invention - a private, as much as you might hate the word, invention. And you've almost certainly passed the bill across the ocean for an American to pay. The private system saves far more lives (on the order of hundreds of millions, or at least tens of millions) than any government-run system, but those millions aren't paying.

There are some, of course, who point to the marketing expenses or compensation at U.S. medical companies as evidence that the firms are just pricing out of sheer chutzpah, I guess, but that ignores the facts that:

a) Even if the CEOs and high executives took no payments it would have a negligible effect on company finances. You could probably liquidate all their assets and not see a difference. Large compensation means 100 times as large a firm. What's a few million dollars to billions in R&D? Nothing. The millions are too paltry to even advance one drug.

b) Marketing in general actually helps the company recoup costs faster to the point where the company has more R&D money if they marketed than if they hadn't.
 
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When I talk about left/right in the context of an American election, which is this context here, I use the American left/right political spectrum. I am completely aware that the Democrats would probably be centrists in some other country like the U.K., but they are not centrists in the U.S. If I were talking about the U.K. elections, I would obviously not use the American political spectrum. Likewise, I will not use a foreign political spectrum here.

Furthermore, there is Republican majority already. They control the House, Senate, and a majority of the states. They just need to have the presidency and a conservative justice (which a Trump will put in if he gets elected) to have near complete control of the U.S. Their power already and their capacity to obtain even more power in the near future is just one of the reasons why I believe a conservative swing will occur within the next decade.



Sanders primarily attracts millenials, who simply don't vote as much as older voters. We can see it in this link: http://www.electproject.org/home/voter-turnout/demographics
Going down to "Turnout Rates: Age" shows the discrepancy clearly. I'll agree there's some shenanigans going on, but I doubt the DNC would even bother trying to rig specific primaries/caucuses for Hillary when they have the super delegates to give her the nomination anyway, even if Bernie gets more pledged delegates. I really only see it being used for PR, and I don't think PR is that important at this point anyway.

Lastly, this might be a bit of a tangent, but I find your statement, along the lines of "America is much more conservative than the rest of the first world," not necessarily true. America is more conservative than Western Europe, Australia, and New Zealand, among some others. There are a great deal of first world countries that are equally, or more, conservative than the U.S. In East Asia, there are South Korea, Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore; all highly free-market oriented, and, in the case of the former three, highly nationalist. There are also the countries that were formerly part of the Soviet Bloc, like Poland or Lithuania. These countries are on the rise, and in most cases highly conservative and anti-communist. They are not as developed as Western Europe (I should probably specify North-Western Europe, since I'd say most of the former Soviet Bloc countries are waaaaaay more developed than Italy, Spain, or Portugal), but they are still quite developed, and only getting more developed. There is also Chile, the only developed country in Latin America, and Israel, the only developed country in the Middle East. Both are quite conservative. And I'm still probably leaving some countries out.

Long story short, the U.S. has a lot of peers.

I find it hilarious that you have listed these Asian countries as being being more conservative, because it really depends on which policies and spectrums...

Let's take Japan (since I live in Japan)-- I'd say that Japan is conservative in the sense that not a whole lot changes, and the political system is held in the iron grip of two parties that are both highly nationalistic, pro-business, and incondusive to major changes. But what does the actual face of the country look like in terms of society and the economy?

It would be very easy to say that Japan is socially conservative-- and that it's inability to deliver greater woman's rights or lgbt rights are demonstrative of this. However...

-Japan believes in scientific evidence and has zero denial of global warming or evolution
-Japan has no infrastructural or active social movement against abortion
-While Japan is behind on LGBT policy, there is zero active opposition to LGBT rights, and the lack of progress is more a reflection of how slow things move here rather than actual mindsets-- most Japanese are indifferent or pro-lgbt

-Japan has one of the longest standing and most effective systems of National Health Care
-Japan is a zero gun society (with public safety that makes the US and even Europe look laughable by comparison)
-paid parental leave laws! (Though many traditional companies have strong social pressure against taking vacation...)

Then, let's look at economics.
-Japan has very rigid labor laws, especially pertaining to job security. You can't fire people in Japan like in the US.
-The wealth gap in Japan is decidedly thinner. Executives just don't make as much as in the US, and common workers make more.

Of course, there are a LOT of social and economic practices and policies that are really backwards (gender equality, age discrimination, recruitment practices, pre-elementary care, political corruption, non-independent company boards, etc.)...

But Japan is a country where:
1) Money in political campaigning is limited (as is industrial lobbying)
2) Health and reproductive care are publically, and effectively cared for.
3) Science is listened to
4) Guns are non-existent, and public safety is high
5) Labor laws are strict
6) The wealth gap is thin

So some very important points of a more "left agenda".

I focused on Japan mostly in this post, but you could say very similar things about many other Asian countries you listed-- public health care, strict gun control, highly regulated economies, and a secular view on science are hallmarks of the way Korea, Taiwan, HK and Singapore do things as well.

One "conservative" policy that these countries do have that I would have to agree with though is their extremely rigid attitude towards drugs-- but their public health and immigration laws mean that their anti-drug laws actually work, unlike the US's.

All of these countries, Japan included (but Singapore excluded-- lol jk but not really) have their own issues, especially economic. But the important points listed above are areas where the US definitely can learn from them and improve.

For my point, I actually prefer a central-left area-- so actually the fact that even Bernie is not too far left in the grand scheme of things is what makes me comfortable with him, and Obama too for that matter.

Japan's willingness to provide strong social services and relative economic equality while also maintaining a strong cultural identity and a well regulated yet pro-business free market is praiseworthy. The thing they really lack (but then, most countries besides the US really lack) is the ability to consistently produce innovation.
 
Never said they were more conservative. I had a long list of countries, some more conservative than the U.S., some equally conservative.

You kind of admit this yourself. You say areas where Japan is less conservative, but then you make concessions by saying where it is more conservative. These things are cancelling each other out.
 
Arguably Japan is the outlier in this sense if you look at China and both Koreas though.

Japan really isn't very conservative though, you had that point.
 
We're splitting topics like crazy here, and I deleted some posts that were little more than catfighting. Make sure to tie your posts and responses into the topic so we can avoid that.

You might also consider starting a thread about... American vs. World Political Spectrum? Private vs. Public Healthcare?
 
Speaking of the political spectrum, the 2016 Senate Race in Illinois represents one of the only interesting races of this election season, at least to me (it helps a lot that I live in Illinois, so I'm watching it a bit more carefully than most I'm sure). It pits a Democrat (Rep. Tammy Duckworth) against, from what I can tell, an actual centrist.

Bare bones are these: Illinois is a heavily blue state, and Mark Kirk, the incumbent senator, is a Republican who won his seat in an off-presidential year. So surely he's just going to get rolled, and the Democrats are going to re-take Obama's old senate seat, right?

Well, the early indications are certainly that Duckworth, the Democratic challenger, has an advantage. However, Kirk has been holding steady and even gaining a bit in the polls even while his Republican counterparts in the Senate decline in popularity with every day Merrick Garland remains obstructed from getting a vote for the Supreme Court (probably because Kirk is the only Republican to support giving Garland a vote so far). While Kirk is not widely approved of, his approval ratings are higher than his negatives (he has a massive number in the 'undecided' column), and his competitor has only a 1-point advantage in net approval rating.

So why do I find this race interesting? Mostly because it represents a truly different spectrum than you see almost anywhere else in the country, as Kirk holds very few of the most oft-cited unfavorable positions of the modern-day Republican party. I'll post a short list here:
- Pro-choice
- Understands climate change and has a history of legislating accordingly
- Supports same-sex marriage
- The only Republican senator to get an 'F' from the NRA

In other words, as a resident of Illinois, I'm actually having a hard time deciding who to vote for, and given the political spectrum of Smogon, I felt that this race might be one that others here could actually have a debate about.

Unfortunately Duckworth's page on Wikipedia is rather lacking on policy substance, so I'm assuming that she is a run-of-the-mill Democrat, probably slightly to the left of Hillary Clinton (Elizabeth Warren is campaigning with her, for example).

Though I'm probably slightly to the left of Kirk, a part of me wants to vote for him just to encourage the Republican party to come back to reality on many of the core issues facing the country. At heart I don't like big government or excessive spending, and so it would be nice if there were a party/candidate which reflected my views even in the slightest. Even Ron/Rand Paul, the most high-profile libertarians of the last decade, weren't candidates I felt I could support. Hell, I rather unabashedly have supported Bernie Sanders in the presidential race because even though my preferred economic policies are virtually the polar opposite of his, at least he tackles issues I care about (repealing Citizens United being probably the biggest thing) and says what he believes because he believes it, while having a coherent plan for the country. I wouldn't trust Clinton to mow my front lawn much less be President of the United States after seeing what a calamitous Secretary of State she was.

Anyway this is starting to ramble, so I'll close with a question: who would you vote for in this senate race come November, and why? Is the polarizing nature of the two parties as troubling to you as it is to me?
 
Neither seems to have a good explanation of where they stand on issues. Neither seems to have an opinion on the environment (Kirk wanting to expand oil drilling was all I could find). I'd probably look more actively into it in like 4 months, once positions on issues have been posted.
 
I don't know a ton about the race other than I agree with both candidates on a lot and that they're becoming even closer on the issues every day. Kirk is trending more centrist right now purely because it's an election year. Yes, he was already one of the most centrist people in the Senate before this race, but now he's basically just acting like a democrat to not get massacred in blue Illinois.

billymills I wouldn't say Kirk isn't pro-environment. He's rated 57% by the League of Conservation Voters, while most Republicans are rated like 20% or lower. He's got a mixed record. Honestly, with the exception of like ratings from abortion groups and the NRA, where - for me - there really is just a clear right and wrong answer, I think mixed ratings are a good sign of critical thinking.

And also that Duckworth is a veteran and double amputee and the NRSC (campaign arm for Senate Republicans at large) once said she doesn't "stand up for vets." It wasn't Kirk who said that, but damn that's dirty.

All in all, yes, it's a tough choice. Both are good options. A rare predicament in politics, honestly.
 
Okay, now I DEFINITELY can't stand her! I hate lying, sniveling politicians, and the Bosnian thing was just disgusting. I wanna vote for a third party candidate. Who's with me?
 
I don't see the fuss about third party candidates, especially this election season. They're not much better than regular candidates anyway, save catering to some small group's political niche.

If you're in a third party mood, vote for Trump. He's got all the outsider-ness of a third party candidate with all the chances of winning as a main party candidate. It's the best of both worlds, so to speak.
 
Third party candidates historically have 0 effect on the election. When they do however, its usualy causes another party to lose because it splits the the group of voters that both candidates are trying to reach. Ross Perot is an example of this. If trump doesn't reach 1237 delegates and is denied the nomination I predict he will run third party and beat the republican. Hillary will win in a landslide if that happens though. At this point Trump is very likely to reach the 1237.
 
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