More like Porygon took the fall because it was either taking it out of the anime or taking the STAR POKEMON out from the anime.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
More like Porygon took the fall because it was either taking it out of the anime or taking the STAR POKEMON out from the anime.
Yup. That was it.
I actually haven't even seen Porygon on merchandise. Correct me if I'm wrong though.
Yeah, but what I mean is Jynx would be controversial in any media had it kept it's controversial element. As Porygon doesn't have anything controversial about it in and of itself, it's fine to go on unaltered in Pokémon, appear in Smash and Manga etc.
It would only be controversial to Americans though.
That's why Holiday Hi-Jynx is still aired in Japan, Korea and the UK. (I mean repeated broadcasts, rather than initial broadcast)
Only in America? Only one of the biggest consumer markets and where a very large portion of your fanbase and sales come from?
For the same reasons Earthquakes would only feel offensive to the japanese, yet we've seen an episode and an entire arc not come out due to them.
Sure, it's where the series comes from, but it's pretty much the same "logic".
Game sales from Japan and USA have always been similar in figures.
So USA is definitely less than half of where Pokemon's income come from.
Americans also do not spend much on official merchandise.
I don't think GF or the Pokemon Company has any bias against any Pokemon (maybe against Raichu, but only in the sense that no other Pikaclone has had an evolution). However with over 700 Pokemon sadly they need to be selective with what Pokemon they choose to advertise.
As for Jynx specifically, well there's really no specific situation where it fits in aside for winter stuff and background filler. In the eyes of Pokemon fans Jynx does have the advantage of being a Gen I Pokemon but, and probably more importantly, still needing a Mega Evolution.
Hm, maybe a little though only by those who are easily offended. Remember an important aspect about the Jynx controversy had nothing to do with it but rather the popularity of Pokemon. Now Carole Boston Weatherford has a point that the Japanese do use the blackface stereotype in stuff while not understanding its an offensive portrayal of African Americans. And I do believe Jynx takes a bit of design from blackface, at least when they were designing it. However at the same time if Pokemon wasn't popular I doubt she would have mentioned it. There's a ton of anime, manga, and Japanese stuff with blackface visual and (though some did change when brought to the US but by the dubbers) yet she specifically targeted Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z, two popular anime at the time. Until then no one really cared what color Jynx's face was since, while a "humanoid", didn't look human enough for people to go "hey, isn't this a bit offensive to black people". Carole Boston Weatherford was known to attack Eastern culture for blackface stuff so of course she saw Jynx as such (though she did have a point with Mr. Popo, though he's sort of a clash of African and Indian (as in people from the country India) stereotypes). So in a way you could argue she was projecting some of her bias on Jynx when no one else was. However if they kept its design despite that I think the mast majority wouldn't care, but if silencing some criticism is as easy as a repaint than there's no harm in doing that plus it'll look good to parents who may have been worried about exposing their kids to negative stereotypes.
It's important to remember GF and the Pokemon Company are a kid's company, they target audience is kids (or rather their parent's wallets). Controversy is a bad thing, no matter the situation. If the controversy can be "solved" with little trouble like repainting Jynx's face, not airing a filler episode, or for Porygon case not have it be in any more anime episodes then a company would prefer to do that then try to change people's mind. That all said if they added Porygon back into the anime I don't think anyone would care, even though affected by the seizures. Now the episodes involving earthquakes and attack on Castelia City are examples of bad timing, Japan had earthquakes which did a lot of damage and took lives so having episodes which could remind people of that would be incredibly in poor taste. The Whiscash episode was filler so that didn't matter, though that did mess up the planned Team Plasma arc (though I still argued they messed it up by not having them appear earlier like they do in the games but that's beside the point). Doesn't matter who the market is or how many number of people it affects, if the change is easy to make without affecting much of anything for the most part a company will do the change.
Well maybe if they brought over more merchandise we would. Or at least sell them on the online store, Pokemon is a big enough company I think they can do international delivery (they'd probably have the products delivered at the same time they get a restock delivery so it probably wouldn't cost them any more).
Yeah, you kinda don't need to be half to be considered a large portion. Come on, you have to be joking if you think GF wouldn't care much about America in terms of selling Pokémon games and other media.
I don't think Game Freak wants us to forget Jynx, but moreso forget its controversial past (aka, the "blackface Jynx")
I saw the anime was brought up, but while some of the earlier episodes featuring Jynx don't air, it never was written out of the anime entirely. I remember several episodes from the Advanced arc featuring Jynx as an important Pokemon of the day character, such as that one from the Battle Frontier that featured several Jynx and a Smoochum, and one of May's contest rivals also used one in late Hoenn. TPC doesn't seem to have any issues re-airing those. I just don't think it shows up much in the anime due to it not being the most popular of Pokemon.
It's fairly safe to say Jynx isn't the most popular Pokemon in the west; it still has a negative stigma to it that it has yet to completely fight off, and most western kids gravitate towards the cute mons like Pikachu and Eevee or the badass mons like Charizard and Blastoise. Plus, not many people in the west understand the inspiration of Jynx's design, and I can see how its design could come across as more "weird and out-there" because of that. But despite that, there's no reason why Game Freak would want us to forget Jynx exists; it may not always get brought up alongside the likes of Pikachu and Charizard, but it is still an iconic Pokemon.
I personally like Jynx. I like it's design because it's different, and it has always been a reliable battler for me in the games, especially in RBY.
I saw the anime was brought up, but while some of the earlier episodes featuring Jynx don't air, it never was written out of the anime entirely. I remember several episodes from the Advanced arc featuring Jynx as an important Pokemon of the day character, such as that one from the Battle Frontier that featured several Jynx and a Smoochum, and one of May's contest rivals also used one in late Hoenn. TPC doesn't seem to have any issues re-airing those. I just don't think it shows up much in the anime due to it not being the most popular of Pokemon.
It's fairly safe to say Jynx isn't the most popular Pokemon in the west; it still has a negative stigma to it that it has yet to completely fight off, and most western kids gravitate towards the cute mons like Pikachu and Eevee or the badass mons like Charizard and Blastoise. Plus, not many people in the west understand the inspiration of Jynx's design, and I can see how its design could come across as more "weird and out-there" because of that. But despite that, there's no reason why Game Freak would want us to forget Jynx exists; it may not always get brought up alongside the likes of Pikachu and Charizard, but it is still an iconic Pokemon.
I personally like Jynx. I like it's design because it's different, and it has always been a reliable battler for me in the games, especially in RBY.
Plus Jynx has a unique typing, her Special Attack is good, and her Special Defense and Speed aren't shabby. It's a shame that her Defense isn't so good, and it was a crying shame she never received an evolution among the many that did in Gen 4. A similar thing could be said for Mr. Mime.
A pity, since NU is still NU, and there are far better Psychic and Ice types.
A pity, since NU is still NU, and there are far better Psychic and Ice types.
Still no alerts from this thread u.u
I honestly don't care about Jynx though. I just think it's a "meh" Pokemon. BST of 455 isn't going to cut it for a powerful Pokemon and as for its design...I just don't care. Not sure why but I just think its "meh"
EDIT: Missed this post
"Porygon is way more controversial than Jynx is, from a Japanese point of view. It actually caused more than 700 children to end up in hospital!! However, as we all know by now, Porygon had received new evos TWICE.
Although it may not appear in the anime, receiving evos is not related to anime controversies. " -- Cresselia~~
Idk how to quote without the reply button ;;
I'd say Porygon line has quite a lot of bias. Never appearing in the anime because of one episode. It's not like seeing Porygon is going to suddenly make us turn off the TV or where ever you watch Pokemon. New fans don't know about it and old fans won't forget it so just move on. Porygon and evos could of had unique episodes and Pikachu technically caused the flashes that caused the seizures so get rid of Pikachu instead.
I honestly don't care about Jynx though. I just think it's a "meh" Pokemon. BST of 455 isn't going to cut it for a powerful Pokemon and as for its design...I just don't care. Not sure why but I just think its "meh"
EDIT: Missed this post
"Porygon is way more controversial than Jynx is, from a Japanese point of view. It actually caused more than 700 children to end up in hospital!! However, as we all know by now, Porygon had received new evos TWICE.
Although it may not appear in the anime, receiving evos is not related to anime controversies. " -- Cresselia~~
Idk how to quote without the reply button ;;
Last edited:
Base stat is not how you use to evaluate a Pokemon. A lot of mons with low base stats actually wreak havoc in OU.
Jynx was berserk during Gen 1 and Gen 5, and a viable mon during VGC 2012.
I was using it as an example. There are more 500+ BST mons in OU than below 500. There are three OU mons with a BST below Jynx and there are a lot more with BSTs above Jynx. And two of those three are stall Pokemon. There are 3 UU mons below Jynx's BST. There are a lot more above. Sure BST isn't an exact indicator of strength but most powerful mons tend to have higher BSTs
I think any implication that Gamefreak is biased against any pokemon is absurd. They might show more favor to some because of how well some pokemon are received / importance to the series but they've never shown anything that would imply they actively dislike one of their own creations. Jynx, Porgyon, and Kadabra are just marketed sparingly because for outside reasons they might be problematic for the franchise.
There's no reason to keep Porygon / Jynx / Kadabra(?) away because of events that happened ages ago. I mean when was the last time you saw Porygon in the anime.
Umm, there are very good reasons to keep those away if you have 722 alternative creatures to use that won't incite any controversy or bring potential lawsuits to your company.
Ahem, the Kadabra lawsuit is still not over. That's why Kadabra doesn't even have cards.
Name a Pokemon similar to Porygon that could easily fill a role that Porygon would undertake in the anime. Porygon won't bring controversy as long as they don't spam flashing lights. Honestly the suggestion that Porygon would incite controversy by simply having a role in at least one episode of the anime is kinda absurd.
EDIT: Porygon is a unique Pokemon that could make for some very good anime episodes that other Pokemon can't really accomplish.
Jynx is another matter because Jynx is based on design and I don't remember right now if it appears in anime that wasn't during Gen 1.
Mb about Kadabra then, I'm not as aware of it as Porygon/Jynx and I don't really go into the cards that much.
I don't know if you're being purposefully obtuse but opting not to use a Pokemon associated with causing seizures to some 800 children in Japan and instead avoiding any potential backlash to ensure you don't get bad press is not some unorthodox business decision. It is not as if there's a huge clamoring for Porygon animation that needs to be sated. I mean, Porygon is cool but I get why they don't use him.
It is a hard one to find a substitute for, yes, but you'd be ignoring the fact that there's no real need for those episodes - especially when most modern episodes would be focusing on Pokémon introduced in the latest game, hence Porygon and it's evolutions would not be relevant in this case whether it was controversial or not.
But it happened ages ago, how would using Porygon give them bad press if there is nothing wrong with the new episode
True tbh.
EDIT because I keep posting to fast: I guess I just don't like the idea that they're not using Porygon because of an event some 20 odd years ago and that's the sole reason that people give.
First, Jynx can appear wherever it wants as its controversy is over, they changed her to purple and she's now in the clear.
FUN FACT: The episodes that Xen mentioned are important episodes for Jynx. First, in an early Hoenn episode ("All Things Bright and Beautifly", the episode where May gets inspired to become a Coordinator from watching a character of the day's performance with their Beautifly) there is segment where a filler trainer uses a Jynx but it was cut from the dub as it was still the black Jynx. Much later a character of the day name Erica which was May's rival for the Pacifidlog Contest use a Jynx which was the debut of its redesign ("Mean with Envy" and "Pacifidlog Jam"). Though those might better remember its redesign from its next and as of right now most recent appearance, the Battle Frontier episode "Three Jynx and a Baby" where 3 Jynx go on a rampage through a town because Team Rocket stole their little sister Smoochum.
Now for Kadabra I don't know what's going on with the lawsuit, some say its over in the Pokemon's Company favor while others says it's still going on. Eitherway it hasn't appeared in any merchandise or the anime since the Advance generation (infact in the TCG all Abra cards after Skyridge (last time there was a Kadabra card) are given a PokeBody to instantly evolve into an Alakazam), though I think for promotional pieces and the games they still appear. From what I can read, Uri Geller just seems upset that something who's name is based on his has symbols that sort of looking like Nazi imagery (though you'd think a self-proclaimed psychic would recognize the Zener card symbols... those are 3 wavy lines on its abdomen, not two S's). Not sure if removing/replacing the symbols would help resolve the case. But eithercase, they probably don't want to do anything major with it that could be potentially used against them or reopen the case.
Now Kadabra's limited use was due to a lawsuit, but Porgyon's is probably out of respect for victims. The Porygon controversy was a major controversy at the time, it almost ended the anime (and afterwards they needed to add flashing light warnings to the games). Also respect is an important aspect to Japanese culture, so lengths to show respect is more ongoing. Thus to respect the victims of those who had seizures they excluded anything specific to that episode from being in the anime: the flashing effect, Dr. Akihabara, and Porygon (plus its family). It's also why Earthquake and Magnitude haven't been seen in the anime after the earthquakes in Japan (which also resulted in a few unreleased episodes of the anime).
FUN FACT: The episodes that Xen mentioned are important episodes for Jynx. First, in an early Hoenn episode ("All Things Bright and Beautifly", the episode where May gets inspired to become a Coordinator from watching a character of the day's performance with their Beautifly) there is segment where a filler trainer uses a Jynx but it was cut from the dub as it was still the black Jynx. Much later a character of the day name Erica which was May's rival for the Pacifidlog Contest use a Jynx which was the debut of its redesign ("Mean with Envy" and "Pacifidlog Jam"). Though those might better remember its redesign from its next and as of right now most recent appearance, the Battle Frontier episode "Three Jynx and a Baby" where 3 Jynx go on a rampage through a town because Team Rocket stole their little sister Smoochum.
Now for Kadabra I don't know what's going on with the lawsuit, some say its over in the Pokemon's Company favor while others says it's still going on. Eitherway it hasn't appeared in any merchandise or the anime since the Advance generation (infact in the TCG all Abra cards after Skyridge (last time there was a Kadabra card) are given a PokeBody to instantly evolve into an Alakazam), though I think for promotional pieces and the games they still appear. From what I can read, Uri Geller just seems upset that something who's name is based on his has symbols that sort of looking like Nazi imagery (though you'd think a self-proclaimed psychic would recognize the Zener card symbols... those are 3 wavy lines on its abdomen, not two S's). Not sure if removing/replacing the symbols would help resolve the case. But eithercase, they probably don't want to do anything major with it that could be potentially used against them or reopen the case.
Now Kadabra's limited use was due to a lawsuit, but Porgyon's is probably out of respect for victims. The Porygon controversy was a major controversy at the time, it almost ended the anime (and afterwards they needed to add flashing light warnings to the games). Also respect is an important aspect to Japanese culture, so lengths to show respect is more ongoing. Thus to respect the victims of those who had seizures they excluded anything specific to that episode from being in the anime: the flashing effect, Dr. Akihabara, and Porygon (plus its family). It's also why Earthquake and Magnitude haven't been seen in the anime after the earthquakes in Japan (which also resulted in a few unreleased episodes of the anime).
Could Porygon and Kababra be used without problems? I'd say yes (though Kababra might depend if there was an agreement between Pokemon Company and Uri Geller to limit its use, though I doubt that's the case), but you got to remember Pokemon is owned by a company and the company has to do what's best to keep going, whether it be abiding by a lawsuit or showing respect to show you're a responsible company. Jynx though it in the clear, they just don't use her as it's hard to find spots to use her even as a filler Pokemon.
The only thing Porygon can do no other Pokemon can is go into cyberspace which is a plot Pokemon probably wouldn't do that often. Anything else you can probably have another Pokemon do (Rotom, Beldum, there's a batch of artificial Pokemon now).
honestly, charmander and rowlet has to be my least favorite starters.
Agree with Charmander, nothing stands out about it imo. I like Rowlet but tbh we'll see when the final evos are revealed.