Gen VII: Pokémon Sun and Moon (New info Post #5834)

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I don't really have any insight on the origins of the new pokes, legendary forms, or UI (which are all exciting), but I do have one big personal takeaway from the gameplay.

I honestly just love the aesthetics of this game. The vibrant color scheme and unique art style will make me actually feel like I'm in the Alola region.

One of the most important things to me in a video game is to feel immersed in the environment it sets. I feel like SM will do a good job of making it feel like I am going through this adventure, and I will easily be able to immerse myself in the new region.

Character customization and having your character in the battle help with this as well.

Looks super fun so far!
 
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More than likely, due to the different systems in play, a 'blank' Nidoking would be generated to give it an ability and nature, and then everything else is written over or translated as needed. Due to the relatively fragile nature of the Gen I pokémon, I could see them either ignoring the information that doesn't rightly exist (i.e., glitch moves), or the could simply just block the transfer outright, especially if there's more glitch than pokémon, like Missingno, or even non-event Mews.

Maybe, but considering you can fuse Pokemon with Charizard 'M/Q, I wonder if it's going to check for those invalid move sets. Otherwise, something's going to go real wrong.
 
So back to Popplio learning Disarming Voice. I know it's been discussed to death but I don't think anyone mentioned that it may be a hint as to the first gym's type.

In the past, we've seen certain moves added to the starters to help them against the gyms, namely Charmander's Metal Claw and Chespin's Rollout. Some may consider all the Fire/Fighting starters as having been done to help against the early Rock/Rock/Normal gyms.

Now I know that in those instances it was to give the "weak" starter a fighting chance but I don't see why they couldn't be doing the same for Popplio. With Fairy being good against Dragon, Dark, and Fighting, I could see the first gym being a fighting gym. This would also make Rowlet a good first choice. Just a thought. Maybe it's just because Popplio is a seal.
 
So back to Popplio learning Disarming Voice. I know it's been discussed to death but I don't think anyone mentioned that it may be a hint as to the first gym's type.

In the past, we've seen certain moves added to the starters to help them against the gyms, namely Charmander's Metal Claw and Chespin's Rollout. Some may consider all the Fire/Fighting starters as having been done to help against the early Rock/Rock/Normal gyms.

Now I know that in those instances it was to give the "weak" starter a fighting chance but I don't see why they couldn't be doing the same for Popplio. With Fairy being good against Dragon, Dark, and Fighting, I could see the first gym being a fighting gym. This would also make Rowlet a good first choice. Just a thought. Maybe it's just because Popplio is a seal.
It was discussed a couple pages back yeah; certainly can't blame you for not noticing though because there were a billion messages going off at once lol.

As Mad Ram said above though, it is basically just to give the starter a fighting chance rather than an outright advantage. Without, say, Chimchar evolving into a fighting-type early and Chespin getting Rollout, they would have had little to no chance against the gym. For Popplio, it doesn't struggle against dark or fighting, it just... doesn't win in one shot. So unless a majority are part grass or electric - an electric/fighting pokemon would be hella - I don't quite see this as a reason, given precedence. But hey, you never know.
 
So back to Popplio learning Disarming Voice. I know it's been discussed to death but I don't think anyone mentioned that it may be a hint as to the first gym's type.

In the past, we've seen certain moves added to the starters to help them against the gyms, namely Charmander's Metal Claw and Chespin's Rollout. Some may consider all the Fire/Fighting starters as having been done to help against the early Rock/Rock/Normal gyms.

Now I know that in those instances it was to give the "weak" starter a fighting chance but I don't see why they couldn't be doing the same for Popplio. With Fairy being good against Dragon, Dark, and Fighting, I could see the first gym being a fighting gym. This would also make Rowlet a good first choice. Just a thought. Maybe it's just because Popplio is a seal.

That is a very good point, but type chart-wise, it doesn't seem to fit as well as the other examples you listed. Charmander got Metal Claw because Fire is NVE against Rock, and Rock is Super-effective against Fire. Same goes for Chespin's Rollout (grass NVE against Bug, Bug SE against Grass).

Water takes double damage from Grass and Electric. Water moves are NVE against Grass, Water and Dragon. Among those, Fairy is only super-effective against Dragon, but Dragon isn't super-effective against Water (and besides, making the Dragon-type Gym the first Gym seems a little unconventional - Dragon arguably has the least intuitive type chart interactions, which is bad for an introductory Gym).

The first Gym could be Fighting, but Popplio is not at an inherent disadvantage against Fighting. Water and Fighting have completely neutral type chart interactions, as have Fighting and all the other starter types (apart from, in this case, Rowlet's Flying type.

The first Gym could be Water or Grass, against which Popplio would be at a disadvantage, but involving starter types in early Gyms is... unconventional. OK, they did it once, in BW, but then they set up the Gym so that all starters would have the disadvantage. And if either of those types, or Electric, are in the first Gym... why would Fairy help Popplio? If it was a Grass Gym, moves like Powder Snow or Gust would provide the necessary coverage. If the Gym was Water, Popplio would have a defensive advantage, so a super-effective coverage move wouldn't be strictly necessary.

In conclusion, giving Popplio a Fairy move isn't directly helpful against any types against which the coverage would be needed. Disarming Voice might not necessarily be indicative of Popplio's eventual typing upon evolution, but it doesn't seem to be there for another specific reason either.
 
Doesn't necessarily have to be Gym related.
"Evil teams" often use Dark-types, which are weak to Fairy.

Maybe Popplio gets a secondary typing upon evolution that is weak to Dark? I could definitely see this sea lion become a Psychic-type that uses it's telekinetic powers for juggling and other circus tricks for example.

PS: I'm not wishlisting, but I think that this could be another reason for Popplio to learn a Fairy-type move without becoming a Fairy-type after evolving.
 
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What if Popplio is based off the selkie? From my bit of research I can't find anything showing they sung (that's sirens) but a Fairy typing would make sense. Selkies are myths from Scottish and Irish folklore, and they had both a seal and human form. They are definitely fairy like, and while Popplio is based on a sea lion (I think?) it it still close enough for the connection to be there.

*edited for typos
 
I'm personally hoping we get more evolutions, not mega evolutions, of older Pokémon. I'm probably in the minority when I say I liked that aspect of Gen 4. I'd like to see an evolution of Bisharp where the female turns into a Queen (fast and frail) and the male turns into a King (slow and bulky)

Sadly those days are probably gone, best we can hope for now are branch evolutions and baby pre-evolutions. The thing about making a next stage evolution now is this question: why make a normal evolution who will just be slightly better than the original when it can be given a Mega instead and made fantastic? "Well, maybe they can give that new evolution a Mega" you or someone else suggests. True, but then they new evolution will be made with the idea in mind at some point it may be given a Mega so it might not be made as strong. "But some Pokemon could really use the power boost, even if they Mega Evolve they'd need a gimmick to work". Well then they'll be given a gimmick, though another radical solution would be improving and/or rearranging the subpar Pokemon slightly so that they're somewhat usable normally but viable when they Mega Evolve. For example DHR-107 just talked about how Ledyba was useless. Ledian isn't any better, honestly its one of the Pokemon who could go through a bit of a stat redo. Sure normally it'll never be a great, but if they do enough with it then maybe its Mega Evolution will be.

Also Pawniard family's name only is related to Chess in the English games. In Japan they're more about cutting, with only Pawniard's Japenese name having anything to do with board games but instead of Chess it's Shogi. Honestly I'd preferred if they made a new Chess-based Pokemon so they have fresh canvas to work with.

However, bisharp is never going to evolve. It already evolves in the fifties!

That's another thing they need to fix, the evolution levels of some Pokemon. That or give us a way to have them evolve earlier, like a benefit from Pokemon-Amie which decreases level evolution by a certain percentage.

Yes to more real evolutions for old Pokémon.

Deino also evolves very late. Twice.

It's a pseudo-Legendary, that's not uncommon for them.

Getting back on the thread topic: Route 1.
Now that we know where the player house is and that there's seem to be two routes to the Town where you get your Starter, the one in the trailer being Route 1, I wonder if maybe Route 1 has been split into two paths? There's a "paved" path which probably doesn't require you to go into grass while there's another which does.
 
Evolutions are better than Mega Evolutions because you can balance it and use it on more than one team. If GameFreak makes a crapton of megas there will be more Mega Steelix's where it becomes outclassed by an own mega evolution like Mega Aggron. I'm honestly sick of Mega Evolutions they only should've been for specific final evolutions anyways Mega Absol would've been so much better as a normal evolution.
 
Didn't they make it in Gen 6 so that Pokémon in the Undiscovered Egg Group would always have 3 perfect IVs when you caught them? I was able to get an Azurill with perfect Speed, Defence and Attack on my XY.
ORAS changed it to just Legendaries in the Undiscovered Egg Group. Baby Pokémon no longer benefit from this.
Evolutions are better than Mega Evolutions because you can balance it and use it on more than one team. If GameFreak makes a crapton of megas there will be more Mega Steelix's where it becomes outclassed by an own mega evolution like Mega Aggron. I'm honestly sick of Mega Evolutions they only should've been for specific final evolutions anyways Mega Absol would've been so much better as a normal evolution.
First, if you want to complain about Megas, go to the Unpopular Opinion thread, not here.
Second, Megas are not inherently overpowered, just that GF made a few broken ones. They can be balanced.
Third, some Pokémon outclassing another is something that has and always will exist. Why do you think we have tiers? In fact, there being low tier Megas is a good thing since those tiers get to enjoy them as well.
 
Second, Megas are not inherently overpowered, just that GF made a few broken ones. They can be balanced.

And, given GF's focus on doubles, only Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Salamence are likely the only truly broken Megas. (Not taking Rayquaza and Mewtwo into account)

You have the likes of Mega Mawile, Blaziken and Lucario that require a lot of support to get more than ONE kill due to not being a 1v1 situation, and Mega Gengar, who is not a risk-free trapper.
 
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First, if you want to complain about Megas, go to the Unpopular Opinion thread, not here.
Second, Megas are not inherently overpowered, just that GF made a few broken ones. They can be balanced.
Third, some Pokémon outclassing another is something that has and always will exist. Why do you think we have tiers? In fact, there being low tier Megas is a good thing since those tiers get to enjoy them as well.
Well for evolutions are the same thing and I would like to have more evolutions than mega evolutions in Sun and Moon since I can use them more and I find them to be more thematic. I was going with the discussion on hand why would I have to go to a different board.

EDIT: Sorry for some reason when you said take the discussion somewhere else I got kind of pissed my bad.
 
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Evolutions are better than Mega Evolutions because you can balance it and use it on more than one team. If GameFreak makes a crapton of megas there will be more Mega Steelix's where it becomes outclassed by an own mega evolution like Mega Aggron. I'm honestly sick of Mega Evolutions they only should've been for specific final evolutions anyways Mega Absol would've been so much better as a normal evolution.

I'd tend to agree with you, in part. While some megas, such as Mawile and Audino, in addition to the ones you mentioned, might be better off as proper evolutions, there is an inherent issue in cross-gen evolutions that was quite prominent in the Gen IV evolutions, and that Game Freak probably isn't quite looking to revisit, involved in the actual methods that such evolutions would require. Game Freak goes out of its way to avoid implementing evolution via methods that already existed when the pokémon was introduced.

Take Eevee for example. Umbreon, Espeon, and Leafeon were all prime candidates for evolution via the Moon, Sun, and Leaf Stones respectively, but because Eevee couldn't evolve into Umbreon or Leafeon in Gen I, it wouldn't make sense if it could later. This is why so many new methods and specie specific items were introduced in Gen IV.

Now, because of this issue, pokémon who would later be given evolutions could not attain those new forms by normal means. Level and item based evolutions are the most common forms, but neither could be used without introducting a completely new condition first. This means such conditions have to be created as well, be they odd movepool expansions, oneoff items, or specie based interactions - like remoraid and mantyke or karablast and shelmet; say yungoos gets a final form that is based on interactions with the rat that it's tied to, but that rat isn't introduced until Gen VIII, for example. In the end, this just creates a hodgepodge of complicated mechanics and a cache of mostly useless items. This was the aftermath of Gen IV, and since then, and perhaps because of this, the only new evolutionary mechanics that have been introduced for older pokémon belong to Feebas and Eevee alone.

Onto Gen VI, and the introduction of megas. Of the megas introduced, only a select handful of would have worked as proper evolutions. Some, such as Kangaskhan and Aerodactyl would be thematically inappropriate evolutions, while others edged on being too overdramatically powerful or different, even, to properly fit either. Slowbro and Camerupt seem like examples of the awkwardness this would bring. The majority of the megas that have been introduced were for pokémon who literally could or should not have evolved normally in the first place. So in the end, we're left with a small percentage of megas that while, yes, probably would have worked as proper evolutions on paper, only stood to add further complications to the mechanic. It would have been one thing if this was the second or third generation after megas had been introduced, because Mega Evolutions wouldn't be so new and shiny then, but under the circumstances, Game Freak probably felt like they were making the best decision.
 
What if Popplio is based off the selkie? From my bit of research I can't find anything showing they sung (that's sirens) but a Fairy typing would make sense. Selkies are myths from Scottish and Irish folklore, and they had both a seal and human form. They are definitely fairy like, and while Popplio is based on a sea lion (I think?) it it still close enough for the connection to be there.

*edited for typos
Speaking of selkies... another unconfirmed leak really does look like a selkie. (I initially thought it looked like a mermaid, but selkie would have made more sense)

Not allowed to post it here because the source is not reliable in Smogon terms.
 
Kiga.
Onto Gen VI, and the introduction of megas. Of the megas introduced, only a select handful of would have worked as proper evolutions. Some, such as Kangaskhan and Aerodactyl would be thematically inappropriate evolutions, while others edged on being too overdramatically powerful or different, even, to properly fit either. Slowbro and Camerupt seem like examples of the awkwardness this would bring. The majority of the megas that have been introduced were for pokémon who literally could or should not have evolved normally in the first place. So in the end, we're left with a small percentage of megas that while, yes, probably would have worked as proper evolutions on paper, only stood to add further complications to the mechanic. It would have been one thing if this was the second or third generation after megas had been introduced, because Mega Evolutions wouldn't be so new and shiny then, but under the circumstances, Game Freak probably felt like they were making the best decision.

I'm alright with having a few megas introduced if need be, but I hope they don't go overboard and scrap the concept of evolving Pokemon who could really use evolutions without an item. Like if Ledian got an evolution, people would be able to use it a lot more than if it got a mega, since it requires an item and it just would require too much of a buff. I didn't like how Mega Manectric and Mega Lopunny had to be overcompensated to compete by having insane speed tiers and they're honestly the only reason why I'm not happy with megas as a whole. Not really anything else. Seeing Haxorus got hinted at getting a mega too with the whole Battle Royale thing, (I love Haxorus, but it doesn't need a boost that couldn't just be what they did to Azumarill in Gen 6) it does worry me that they'll go that route.
 
You also have to keep in mind that anything that gets a normal evolution instead of a mega gets to continue holding items, in particular, Eviolite. Imagine having to bring down regular Audino if it was holding Eviolite. Not to mention, normal evolution still grants access to items, alongside a stat increase of anywhere from 50-150 points, with some exceptions. I highly doubt that anyone would enjoy battling an evolved Absol with Mega-Absol's stats, that doesn't have an opportunity cost, AND can hold an item.
tl;dr: Mega evolutions are far easier to balance as they have defined limits and an opportunity cost. Megas focus on making a given 'mon as strong as possible within Mega Evolution's limits, wheras normal evolution has to be balanced around more factors.
 
I'm alright with having a few megas introduced if need be, but I hope they don't go overboard and scrap the concept of evolving Pokemon who could really use evolutions without an item. Like if Ledian got an evolution, people would be able to use it a lot more than if it got a mega, since it requires an item and it just would require too much of a buff. I didn't like how Mega Manectric and Mega Lopunny had to be overcompensated to compete by having insane speed tiers and they're honestly the only reason why I'm not happy with megas as a whole. Not really anything else. Seeing Haxorus got hinted at getting a mega too with the whole Battle Royale thing, (I love Haxorus, but it doesn't need a boost that couldn't just be what they did to Azumarill in Gen 6) it does worry me that they'll go that route.

I'll agree with that, but there is a wall of somewhat messy logistics to get through first. The system in place isn't really friendly to cross-generational interactions without leaving a few barbs behind, and new items seem to be a standby answer to this, whether they're megastones or battle point rewards.

Actually, Haxorus would be a good example of a pokémon who would be better off receiving a mega, rather than Pinsir, who would have been better off with an evolution. Haxorus can't evolve again, and without some sort of retcon in abilities, stats, or battle mechanics, it's likely already hit it's full potential, leaving it overshadowed by many other similar pokémon. Even then, megas aren't permanent, so it leaves pokémon like Haxorus, Gardevoir, and Beedrill with a new breath of life, and it leaves the player with the ability to use either form to as they so choose.

Another prominent issue that would be involved in megas becoming evolutions woud mean that the only thing that would necessarily be set in stone would be the designs, and even then, that's not totally solid. Megas are so powerful because they're supposed to be the form the pokémon takes at their strongest. That means that if Mega Lopunny was the evolved form of Lopunny, it would be severly unbalanced for its line. The stats would be far too high, and the ability or type change may no longer be appropriate. Sure, they could leave the overall design as a fighting bunny, but would have to be balanced differently to make it work, which could end up leading it down a completely different route instead. This isn't a bad thing, just something to note. Like I said before, this probably won't be as much of an issue in a few generations. It probably wouldn't be an issue today, if all of the Gen IV evolutions were, with certain exceptions, megas themselves. We might have even gotten a proper Altaria or Heracross evo instead of megas.
 
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Sorry if I'm derailing the current conversation slightly, but I just had a thought about Zygarde Complete and what potential ability it could have. This is complete theorymon so I apologize, but I think Complete Form could possibly have Aura Break as its ability. Of course, Zyagrde 50% already has this ability, so why would Complete have it as well? Well, Complete Form has been stated already that it surpasses Xerneas and Yveltal in terms of sheer power because of it being composed of all of its cells. Aura Break as its ability would make sense thematically since it reverses the effects of Fairy and Dark Aura, therefor "surpassing" them.
 
Sorry if I'm derailing the current conversation slightly, but I just had a thought about Zygarde Complete and what potential ability it could have. This is complete theorymon so I apologize, but I think Complete Form could possibly have Aura Break as its ability. Of course, Zyagrde 50% already has this ability, so why would Complete have it as well? Well, Complete Form has been stated already that it surpasses Xerneas and Yveltal in terms of sheer power because of it being composed of all of its cells. Aura Break as its ability would make sense thematically since it reverses the effects of Fairy and Dark Aura, therefor "surpassing" them.
There is that... but on the other hand, would it not also make sense to get an ability that's Aura Break but, like... better?
I kinda feel it'd have a new Gen 7 ability or something more impressive than Aura Break to be a bit more impressive. New forms tend to do that, like Kyurem's Pressure changing to Teravolt and Turboblaze.
 
I guess, yeah. I was more in line of thinking how it would be effective towards Xerneas and Yveltal specifically, since Zygarde is the trio leader after all. If they do make a buffed version of Aura Break, first guess probably would be it weakens all Dark and Fairy moves?
 
I guess, yeah. I was more in line of thinking how it would be effective towards Xerneas and Yveltal specifically, since Zygarde is the trio leader after all. If they do make a buffed version of Aura Break, first guess probably would be it weakens all Dark and Fairy moves?

Or maybe its "super-charged, 100% version" would even go as far as reversing the effects of all Abilities. Imagine stuff like Huge Power halving the Attack of the user, or Tough Claws weakening the power of contact moves by 30%, or Thick Fat increasing damage taken from Ice and Fire attacks by 50%.

...You know what? I almost wish to see that, just to see things being torn apart by the pure perfection know as Zygarde 100%.
 
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