Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

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I don't think my wacky theory was obviously enough laid out, so I made an image

Please tell me how wrong it is, because it feels pretty silly. But WHY would they match up to these Pokemon so well if it wasn't something to do with them? Maybe it is a fusion of human and Pokemon like some people think

ultrabeaststhumn.png

See full image under the hide
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Sun wolf looks pretty nice. Moon wolf is 2EDGY4ME but it looks okay I guess.

Giant lobster thing instantly make me think of the Colossal Titan.
 
I feel like some people are forgetting that time still exists in both versions. People are overreacting as if Moon version is permanently night. You can play Moon at 8 PM IRL and it will be 8 AM in-game. That's completely reasonable. It's not like you have to stay up til 2 AM every day just so your character can see sunlight.
Have we been told that moon takes place 12 hours ahead of the time on the players 3ds? If not wouldn't it make more sense for moon to take place 6 hours ahead of the players 3ds time and for sun to take place 6 hours before the players 3ds time? This would still mean that the games are set 12 hours apart, just not that moon is the only one of the two to have a difference in time compared to the 3ds time.
 
So, where do I begin? How about from the first page to the last:

Rugarugan:
Rockruff's evolution finally is revealed (or at least he next stage of it) and its indeed a split evolution like many have predicted. When filled with solar power it'll evolve into Rugarugan Midday Form or if filled with the power of night (what was wrong with saying lunar rays? Keep the Sun & Moon theme) it'll evolve into Rugarugan Midnight form. Though how it evolves it still a mystery, does it evolve at a certain level or will it need max happiness? We also weren't told their types nor Abilities so all we have to talk about is their appearance (though I'm going to guess September 14th's news will give us more details). Let's look at each form individually:
  • Rugarugan Midday Form: Taking a form or a more traditional wolf, it also looks what a "proper" evolution for Rockruff would look like. There's really nothing more to say then it now looks like a wolf with sharp rocks jutting from its mane. I personally like it, if only because we FINALLY have a traditional wolf Pokemon which isn't combined with something else (Mightyena & Suicune). If I was to comment on possible typing I would say it remains pure Rock, maybe Rock/Normal if they make Middnight Form into Rock/Dark (so they share similar type match-ups, mainly quadruple weakness to Fighting (notice they included an image of Gumshoos and Alolan Raticate)).
  • Rugarugan Midnight Form: Not only do we have a traditional wolf, we also now have a werewolf! It's alright, they went a bit more cartoony with it I guess to contrast with the more realistic looking Midday Form. I think the cartoony style is throwing me a bit off though I can't find any real complaints with it aside how it looks distant from Rockruff, only rock ribs telling you its Rock-type. Speaking of which, I'm guessing Rock/Dark with it, because it looks evil with the sharp teeth and glowing red eyes. It looks more like what should have been Gladion's Signature Pokemon, maybe he still uses one for all we know. I also know a lot of people are saying it looks like Zoroark which it does a bit but only because of its color scheme and bipedal, base designs I would say are different enough.
If I catch a Rockruff I think I'll let it evolve naturally instead of aiming to get a specific one. I'd prefer Midday but I don't want to not give Midnight a chance. Of course since it seems like an early game Pokemon I might replace it later so. I'll let the game decide for me.

Ultra Beasts:
Wow, that was fast. The second Ultra Beast is revealed to us, both of them. UB-02 Beauty and UB-02 Expansion (personally I would have called it "Muscle"). I don't quite understand why they're both called UB-02, kind of beats the point numbering them if two are going to share a number. Yes, yes, version exclusive (at least the battle with them), but still unless they're the same Ultra Beast they should have their own numbers but we'll let the game explain why that is. I would look at them individually but I have nothing to really say about their design I can't say about the other despite them looking vastly different from one another. Unlike UB01 they both look VERY alien from Pokemon, mainly due to their complex design and humanoid appearance. I kind don't like it, I'm hoping not all other Ultra Beasts look like that. UB-02 Beauty gives me the creeps, especially with the face, and UB-02 Expansion just looks ridiculous especially with those humanoid hands (also I think it has four feet).
We also got confirmation you are going to battle the Ultra Beasts! You fight UB-02 Expansion in Sun and UB-02 Beauty in Moon, and to show they're super strong in screenshots they're battling Tapu Koko (unless at that point of the story we get control of Tapu Koko or we watch Hala/Tapu Koko on its own battle them). Guessing UB-02 Expansion will use Physical attacks while UB-02 Beauty will use Special attacks.
BUT that's not all that was revealed, UB-01 is back but its revealed it also has a subtitle but it's for now being kept secret as "UB-01 ????". So I think it's time for me to readjust my theory:
  • Previous Theory: Lillie is an Ultra Beast, UB-00, who was brought over to our world by an experiment done by the Aether Foundation years ago. A young and scared Ultra Beast, UB-00 took the younger form of the first thing it saw: Lusamine. Realizing what they had at hand, the Aether Foundation started raising UB00 giving her the name "Lillie", Lusamine specifically treating her as her own daughter. However Gladion, Lusamine's son, felt Lillie was taking his mother away from him and grew a grudge against Lillie, seeing her as a monster. Years later Gladion finally runs away, taking Type: Null (a failed attempt to make a Pokemon as powerful as a Legendary to fight Ultra Beasts) with him and joined Team Skull. Gladion's hatred of Lillie makes him believe she's a monster who threatens the world and plans on fighting against the Aether Foundation with Team Skull in order to destroy Lillie. Meanwhile Ultra Beasts are now crossing over to get Lillie back, UB-01 taking on her behavior to try and connect with her.
  • Updated Theory: My theory remains the same, but I have some slight alterations. Lillie is a UB-01, but different from the UB-01 we're shown and both her and that UB-01 will have different subtitles. And expanding on my theory, I think these Ultra Beasts are Lillie's actual family (or whatever the Ultra Beast version of that is). UB-01 ???? is Lillie's "sister", which is why she takes on her behavior as she's trying to connect with her sibling to show they're alike. UB-02 Beauty is Lillie's "mother", taking on a form similar to Lusamine as that who Lillie sees as a mother figure. UB-02 Expansion is Lillie's "father" and it's just a brute so the Ultra Beasts have muscle power behind them if they need it (I don't think its based on Gladion despite some similarities. UB-01 ???? and UB-02 Beauty looks very similar to Lillie and Lusamine why would UB-02 Expansion look very different from Gladion if that was the case?).
Anime:
I made a post about my thoughts on the Sun & Moon poster HERE.

Though I will say this here: Guy, Ash is making a goofy face because he probably feels silly doing the Z-Move pose.

Pokemon Go:
Hey, what's with that Pokemon Go thing? It's showing a image of Pokemon Go with arrows pointing to Alolan Pokemon. Is this some kind of confirmation of compatibility? Can you send Pokemon from Pokemon Go to Sun & Moon and they'll turn into Alolan Pokemon (which makes no sense and honestly would be better if they remained in their normal form, but whatever)?
 
I need to warm up to Rockruff´s evolutions. The day form looks somewhat bland and the night form with its red fur and red eyes looks like an edgy Zoroark hybrid. I am going to name it Moon Moon.

However, I like how unconventional they look for Rock types. Slender, very light colour, almost no rocks on their body. I hope this means they are fast attackers, because I am fed up with Aerodactyl and Mega Diancie as the only fast Rock types (well and Terrakion is pretty fast and Archeops is fast but mediocre due to Defeatist).
 
Have we been told that moon takes place 12 hours ahead of the time on the players 3ds? If not wouldn't it make more sense for moon to take place 6 hours ahead of the players 3ds time and for sun to take place 6 hours before the players 3ds time? This would still mean that the games are set 12 hours apart, just not that moon is the only one of the two to have a difference in time compared to the 3ds time.
I think that would work better for Moon than Sun though: The Sun would probably rise around Noon if it was set six hours behind the internal time, while it would be turning dark around then.
 
Looking at the Sun-Moon anime promo, the school setting seems to imply a lack of combat. If that's the case, the BW team better add dirty jokes to compensate and allow them to get past the dub's radar. BW and XY didn't even try to get any crap past the radar.

EDIT: Better not mention such a fellow user. ;)
 
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I don't think my wacky theory was obviously enough laid out, so I made an image

Please tell me how wrong it is, because it feels pretty silly. But WHY would they match up to these Pokemon so well if it wasn't something to do with them? Maybe it is a fusion of human and Pokemon like some people think

ultrabeaststhumn.png

See full image under the hide
ultrabeasts1.png


I'm sorry, but Cutiefly bears absolutely no resemblance to UB-02-E whatsoever. That's like saying Butterfree and Vivillon are the same because they are both Bug and Flying types, have similar shaped wings, have antennas and evolve from early game bug types. Just no.

EDIT: Also, these are Ultra Beasts. I don't think that 1, they'll evolve, and 2, that if they did, they wouldn't evolve from the pathetically wimpy Wimpod, and that tiny Cutiefly, who already had an evolution leaked in a video.
 
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I'm sorry, but Cutiefly bears absolutely no resemblance to UB-02-E whatsoever. That's like saying Butterfree and Vivillon are the same because they are both Bug and Flying types, have similar shaped wings, have antennas and evolve from early game bug types. Just no.

EDIT: Also, these are Ultra Beasts. I don't think that 1, they'll evolve, and 2, that if they did, they wouldn't evolve from the pathetically wimpy Wimpod, and that tiny Cutiefly, who already had an evolution leaked in a video.


I'm not trying to say in any way that these are evolutions of Wimpod or Cutiefly. If you read my post with the image, I explain that these could be a fusion of human and Pokemon like some are suggesting. UB02 Beauty looks quite a lot like Lusamine, and the design matches pretty closely with Wimpod

I think if you take a closer look at UB02 expansion, you'll see what I mean. It's not just the number of limbs, but the way in which they are positioned on the body that match so closely with Cutiefly. You can even see that Cutiefly has three tufts of fluff behind its head- it matches the three spikes behind UB02 expansion's head. There are triangular spikes elsewhere on the body that could match up with the triangular fluff around cutiefly's bottom. I also think the pointy proboscis is quite unique to this Pokemon and the evolution glimpsed in the trailer

It is unfair to put words in my mouth and say that I would equate butterfree and vivillon in such a simplistic way. They are similar because they are both based on butterflies, sure. But their mouths are two different styles. Their abdomens and lower limb placements are not similar at all, with vivillion's coming out of the middle with more abdomen below. Butterfree's emerge from the bottom of the abdomen

Personally, I think if the UBs are fusions with humans and Pokemon, Cutiefly (or its evolution) and Wimpod are pretty good candidates
 
I'm not trying to say in any way that these are evolutions of Wimpod or Cutiefly. If you read my post with the image, I explain that these could be a fusion of human and Pokemon like some are suggesting. UB02 Beauty looks quite a lot like Lusamine, and the design matches pretty closely with Wimpod

I think if you take a closer look at UB02 expansion, you'll see what I mean. It's not just the number of limbs, but the way in which they are positioned on the body that match so closely with Cutiefly. You can even see that Cutiefly has three tufts of fluff behind its head- it matches the three spikes behind UB02 expansion's head. There are triangular spikes elsewhere on the body that could match up with the triangular fluff around cutiefly's bottom. I also think the pointy proboscis is quite unique to this Pokemon and the evolution glimpsed in the trailer

It is unfair to put words in my mouth and say that I would equate butterfree and vivillon in such a simplistic way. They are similar because they are both based on butterflies, sure. But their mouths are two different styles. Their abdomens and lower limb placements are not similar at all, with vivillion's coming out of the middle with more abdomen below. Butterfree's emerge from the bottom of the abdomen

Personally, I think if the UBs are fusions with humans and Pokemon, Cutiefly (or its evolution) and Wimpod are pretty good candidates

The problem I'm seeing though is that I find fusions of people and 'smaller' Pokemon into Ultra Beasts is a bit extreme. I mean seriously, a person + Cutiefly makes that beefed-up Ultra Beast? Cutiefly has an evolution too, I don't think you understand the importance of that. If people were fusing themselves with Pokemon (which they're not), why would they use Cutiefly instead of its evolution? And if you can explain how this fits into UB-01, maybe, just maybe I could take it with a grain of salt. But I won't now because this theory to me makes absolutely no sense.

And I'm really not going to discuss with you why Butterfree and Vivillon are similar. Who cares about the shape of their abdomens?
 
The problem I'm seeing though is that I find fusions of people and 'smaller' Pokemon into Ultra Beasts is a bit extreme. I mean seriously, a person + Cutiefly makes that beefed-up Ultra Beast? Cutiefly has an evolution too, I don't think you understand the importance of that. If people were fusing themselves with Pokemon (which they're not), why would they use Cutiefly instead of its evolution? And if you can explain how this fits into UB-01, maybe, just maybe I could take it with a grain of salt. But I won't now because this theory to me makes absolutely no sense.

And I'm really not going to discuss with you why Butterfree and Vivillon are similar. Who cares about the shape of their abdomens?

That's totally fair and I understand your skepticism

I think I will make a more in depth image to explain exactly what I am trying to say here, and that will improve our communication and perhaps help make the situation less combative. I know that there are a lot of strong feelings about Pokemon that can sometimes make for a vehement reaction

I'm aware that Cutiefly has an evolution, but there's no official art of it yet and a grainy screenshot from a corner of a trailer doesn't help me make a compelling argument. Like I've said a couple times, I am in no way trying to say UB's are replacement evolutions for these Pokemon. Wimpod could almost certainly have an evolution as well, maybe one that looks even more like UB02 B

I do think it ties into UB01 as I think plenty have pointed out how much it looks like Lillie. It is said to change shape frequently in the official description. Maybe it is made of multiple Pokemon, or one we haven't seen yet?

At the end of the day it's all just a bit of fun hypothesizing. We won't truly know until Nintendo tells us for sure, but I don't see the harm in chasing some wild hunches while we wait
 
the wolves are boring and they suck but its whatever since rockruff was already boring so no one expected anything anyway

expansion. its so fucking cool.just wish it didnt have four legs. thats kinda weird. reminds me of kamen rider.

ub beauty is boring too. im not sure which is more boring ub beautyt or the wolves/
 
Anyway, as suggested above, Moon Moon sounds cool as a badass and joke name for the Night Form of this wolf. I actually think its design looks cool regardless, and so does the Day Form.
 
the wolves are boring and they suck but its whatever since rockruff was already boring so no one expected anything anyway
> no one.
lol, you're funny.
According to the Internet, you're the minority. Which is totally fine, but please always keep in mind to not generalize a personal opinion.

On a different note...Isn't Rock/Dark not the best typing for competitive? What can we expect for this mon?
 
On a different note...Isn't Rock/Dark not the best typing for competitive? What can we expect for this mon?
Keep in mind that judging something's competitive value before the game is released is not a good idea when we don't know what the new meta will be like, especially since it's a new gen.
That said, it's design seems to imply a focus on speed with a secondary focus on an offensive stat (or both). If the new meta is anything like the current, a quick and powerful Pokémon with Rock and Dark STAB sounds very threatening.

By the way, did anyone bring up yet that due to Ash not challenging the league this time it lends credence to the idea that Gen 7 has no league? Didn't check the pages since I had classes
 
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Kinda sad we don't have the Rockruff evo's typings to go along with the pictures. Maybe we'll see em on the 14th? Borderline wishlisting but it would be nice to have a fast Rock type that's not Terrakion or part-flying.

Do they both seem physically based to you guys?
The Night form has curved claws that seem more for slashing with it's front paws while the Day form seems a little more elegant. Wolves would lend themselves to sound-based moves á la Howl and while I'd love a special based Rock mon (with good special based Rock moves) I'm not gonna hold out hope.

Edit: forgot to say that I'm totally digging the Day form as I love that noble wolf look.
 
Lugarugan's midday form looks like a generic wolf to me, but i still like it.
Its midnight form, however... ... ...

Also i don't know why, but both UB02s give me more of a machinery vibe and than of "an otherworldly being" vibe.

Edit: Are those orange things on UB02-Expansion's back supposed to be wings?
 
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Give me generic (were)wolf over Garbodor / Vanilluxe / etc. Wolves are amazing animals and it's about time we receive a proper wolf Pokemon. At first I preferred the day version but the night one has grown on me. It has a lot of personality and that's what I look for most in Pokemon (but also if they're birds they're probably cool).
 
Lugarugan's midday form looks like a generic wolf to me, but i still like it.
Its midnight form, however... ... ...

Also i don't know why, but both UB02s give me more of a machinery vibe and than of "an otherworldly being" vibe.

Edit: Are those orange things on UB02-Expansion's back supposed to be wings?
latest

This Vexus, a robotic villain from a cartoon called My Life As A Teenage Robot.

First thing I thought of when I saw this:
ub02beauty.jpg
 
Rockruff's evolutions are really intriguing. I was expecting some kind of werewolf-looking thing, with the midnight form seems to be going for. I was not expecting it to be split based on what time it evolved.

The Ultra Beast concept is extremely interesting, too. I wonder if they are going to be more like bosses or actual Pokemon that you can catch. Either way, I think alternate dimensions that were established in the Delta episode are going to have a larger place in this generation.
 
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