Serious US Election Thread (read post #2014)

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Few things that need to be cleared up.

A. Hillary hasn't been cleared from Benghazi. For all the crap that Trump got (rightfully so) for throwing crap at the Khan family, I didn't see anybody calling out Hillary for lying to the family of the four dead from Benghazi for the cause of their death and her infamous at this point what difference does it make was a damning statement that she lied and wanted everyone to forget that she lied. But when you look at shit through rose tinted glasses for your candidate, it makes you think she is clean as a whistle.

B. Speaking of looking at shit through rose tinted glasses, Trumps trade policy is by far the dumbest thing he has ever put forward as a plan. Why nobody attacks him on that is beyond me. His rhetoric on trade deficits with China is another beyond stupid thing coming from "A Great Businessman". Yeah we have a trade deficit with China, so whats your point? You have a trade deficit with Amazon and your grocery store. You going to put up large tariffs against them and stop making transactions with them? I really don't like paying more for stuff simply because some idiot decided to put up a new tariff
 
It's always the anti Trump people here getting angry and willing to use personal attacks while debating lol. Being able to stuff as many personal insults in your post as possible doesn't make your points any better.
If you're calling me pointing out linking a Russia Today article without reading it was dumb, a personal attack, I honestly don't know how to respond. If you're referring to me pointing out that a strawman was either a strawman or a lack of reading comprehension, maybe people shouldn't post strawmen, that's also not a personal attack, and considering the length of that post it was hardly stuffed with insults. What was the point of posting this, if you are this sensitive, maybe you shouldn't be voting for a man who actually made a point to say how proud he was that he was managed to not launch a personal attack on Hillary Clinton during the debate (after the debate while insulting her).
That being said, if I had to choose between a person who said a woman "liked eating" 20 years ago or someone who ignores security procedures on purpose and lead to the death of 4 Americans in Benghazi, I'd choose the former. I care a lot more about Hillary Clinton's deadly actions and policies that she supports such as NAFTA and the TPP than Donald Trump's harsh words. I also think it isn't right to try to scare those voting for a 3rd party candidate into voting for yours, people have the right to vote for who they want to, no matter if they have a major chance of winning or not.
Lol, what a terrible way to look at the election, it isn't about choosing "between a person who said a woman "liked eating" 20 years ago or someone who ignores security procedures on purpose and lead to the death of 4 Americans in Benghazi," its about choosing a person with coherent policies (of which Trump has none). You're also ignoring Donald Trump's fraudulent university, continuous racist remarks, and the fact that in spite of saying he is worth 3 billion dollars, he is probably in debt (mortgages) cause its all in properties. You don't hear as much about Trump's scandals cause he says something so confoundingly stupid/racist/sexist everyday that all his negative press comes from that.

As Sam already addressed, most economists think NAFTA had very little effect on the economy (but most think it was a slight positive), just cause Donald Trump's buzzword was "NAFTA was the worst thing to the economy" at the first debate doesn't make it true. Consider a) Donald Trump is capable of lying, he actually does it constantly, such as denying saying global warming was made up by the chinese in order to harm the US economy (he said this), that he put the birther lie to rest after Obama released his birth certificate (Obama released it in 2011, Donald Trump was saying he was born in Kenya as recently as January 2016 iirc), and that he was against the war in Iraq from the start (there is video of him on air that points to the opposite). And b) Donald Trump probably isn't an economic expert, which is why his tax plan would expand the deficit, while Clinton's keeps it about level while expanding job growth by 3.2 million (obviously this is conjecture, but I trust conjecture by economists more than someone whose in depth knowledge of economics only goes as far as repeating NAFTA is bad). For someone who cares a lot about policies, you don't seem to actually be all that informed, notice how its always the Trump supporters making statements they are unable to back up with factual evidence (this was a personal insult, but I'm just mirroring your post, its a form of sarcasm fyi).

Again no where in my post did I attempt to scare people voting 3rd party into voting for a different candidate. I simply stated that it is an advantage for Trump to have millennial voters, who would have voted for Bernie, vote for Stein or Johnson, especially when at the end of the day, after being moved left by the primaries, Clinton's position is much closer to Sanders than either of the other candidates. Its therefore a protest vote (not voting closest to your own ideologies because you are upset with the primaries outcome), these people should vote Clinton, not because Trump is a terrifying prospect (I mean he is), but because Clinton's platform is the most ideologically similar to Sanders's. I also said it works both ways, my parents would typically vote Republican, but neither are voting for Trump because its abundantly clear to them he has no plan if he becomes president, and his random bigoted outbursts don't help.

Hey, speaking of being uninformed on the issues

I'm really surprised Hillary didn't faint/have a coughing fit/soil herself/die.
Look, its another criticism of Clinton that has nothing to do with her policies! Let me break down why a candidates "potential death" in this election is once again a boon for Clinton, even though its mostly irrelevant. Firstly, Hilary Clinton is a 68 year old woman who managed to recover from pneumonia in ~ 1.5 weeks, if you are concerned about her dying in office, maybe you should be worried about the 70 year old, overweight oompa loompa dying in office. Secondly, this is the order of VP and presidential candidates from major parties I'd want to be president:

Kaine
Clinton
Trump
Pence

Kaine is a relative moderate who opposes citizens united, if Clinton dies in office Tim Kaine is at least a reasonable person to become president. Pence, on the other hand, got his start in politics by running on a platform in which he wanted to defund HIV research and provide resources "toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior" (ctrl + f HIV). Dude wanted to use waste tax payer money on conversion therapy, in spite of the fact that it has an incredibly low success rate (think 0) and has dubious constitutionality (show me the conversion therapy that doesn't advocate for a religion). Aside from that, he wanted to waste tax payer money on the torture of American citizens, the majority of which would be children sent there against their will by religious parents (and yes it is torture, there is a reason several states are making a push to outlaw conversion therapy for minors). I'm not sure how you of all people could support someone who thinks that Pence would be a good president if anything should happen to him, but given your posting I'm going to guess you haven't thought much about it at all.
 
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If you're calling me pointing out linking a Russia Today article without reading it was dumb, a personal attack, I honestly don't know how to respond.
I'm referring to the blatant things like "mandodelrey and skitty just beating each other off", not you linking a RT article.

Again no where in my post did I attempt to scare people voting 3rd party into voting for a different candidate. I simply stated that it is an advantage for Trump to have millennial voters, who would have voted for Bernie, vote for Stein or Johnson, especially when at the end of the day, after being moved left by the primaries, Clinton's position is much closer to Sanders than either of the other candidates. Its therefore a protest vote (not voting closest to your own ideologies because you are upset with the primaries outcome), these people should vote Clinton, not because Trump is a terrifying prospect (I mean he is), but because Clinton's platform is the most ideologically similar to Sanders's. I also said it works both ways, my parents would typically vote Republican, but neither are voting for Trump because its abundantly clear to them he has no plan if he becomes president, and his random bigoted outbursts don't help.

Again... not referring to your post, I'm referring to how a common thing in this election is people saying that if you vote for anyone other than Hillary Clinton you're voting for Trump, which according to JES will lead to an end of civilization as we know it.

Secondly, this is the order of VP and presidential candidates from major parties I'd want to be president:

Kaine
Clinton
Trump
Pence

Kaine is a relative moderate who opposes citizens united, if Clinton dies in office Tim Kaine is at least a reasonable person to become president. Pence, on the other hand, got his start in politics by running on a platform in which he wanted to defund HIV research and provide resources "toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior" (ctrl + f HIV). Dude wanted to use waste tax payer money on conversion therapy, in spite of the fact that it has an incredibly low success rate (think 0) and has dubious constitutionality (show me the conversion therapy that doesn't advocate for a religion). Aside from that, he wanted to waste tax payer money on the torture of American citizens, the majority of which would be children sent there against their will by religious parents (and yes it is torture, there is a reason several states are making a push to outlaw conversion therapy for minors). I'm not sure how you of all people could support someone who thinks that Pence would be a good president if anything should happen to him, but given your posting I'm going to guess you haven't thought much about it at all.
I'm not saying Trump is perfect lol, I agree with you on the things you've said about Mike Pence, he also voted for the Iraq war. I wouldn't want Mike Pence to be president either, I just want Hillary Clinton less. The main appeal for Trump to me is his tough stance on ISIS (before you say "what stance on ISIS? he hasn't given one", I think that not telling them your plan is a good idea.) and not allowing refugees from areas that practice Sharia Law or that ISIS can easily infiltrate the refugee population. The idea that more people coming here that think I should die for being gay scares me, and so does the prospect of more terrorist attacks especially like the one in Orlando.
 
I'm not saying Trump is perfect lol, I agree with you on the things you've said about Mike Pence, he also voted for the Iraq war. I wouldn't want Mike Pence to be president either, I just want Hillary Clinton less. The main appeal for Trump to me is his tough stance on ISIS (before you say "what stance on ISIS? he hasn't given one", I think that not telling them your plan is a good idea.) and not allowing refugees from areas that practice Sharia Law or that ISIS can easily infiltrate the refugee population. The idea that more people coming here that think I should die for being gay scares me, and so does the prospect of more terrorist attacks especially like the one in Orlando.
So you're voting for him because his plan to beat ISIS (which you don't actually know what it is because he hasn't said anything about it). He has said something along the lines of "I'm gonna get our best generals on it and I will defeat ISIS within 30 days," of course our best generals have been working on it since 2013, and ISIS still exists, this is just illogical. Trump doesn't have a plan and I'm absolutely baffled on how anyone could think that someone with zero foreign policy experience, who dodged the draft at that, is going to be effective at stomping out terrorism. I mean seriously how is anyone buying into, "I have a plan to defeat ISIS but I can't tell you what it is," are people that gullible?

The US is also pretty lucky, in that unlike Europe, most 2nd generation US citizens (the offspring of the refugees) become relatively Americanized given that minorities in America tend to be much less culturally insulated. In fact the most effective way to guarantee cultural insulation is to elect someone who says shit like we should ban all Muslims (which is never going to happen, cause its not constitutional at all). And I hate to break it to you but, people that think you should die for being gay are already in America, and I'd presume the majority of them are voting for the guy that promises to elect conservative supreme court justices to roll back your rights. If you honestly think electing Donald Trump president will reduce the amount of terrorist attacks on US soil, you are sadly mistaken, and you are voting for one form of Sharia law out of fear of potential Sharia law (which isn't even a realistic fear given Muslims represent 1% of the US population).
 
I'm referring to the blatant things like "mandodelrey and skitty just beating each other off", not you linking a RT article.



Again... not referring to your post, I'm referring to how a common thing in this election is people saying that if you vote for anyone other than Hillary Clinton you're voting for Trump, which according to JES will lead to an end of civilization as we know it.


I'm not saying Trump is perfect lol, I agree with you on the things you've said about Mike Pence, he also voted for the Iraq war. I wouldn't want Mike Pence to be president either, I just want Hillary Clinton less. The main appeal for Trump to me is his tough stance on ISIS (before you say "what stance on ISIS? he hasn't given one", I think that not telling them your plan is a good idea.) and not allowing refugees from areas that practice Sharia Law or that ISIS can easily infiltrate the refugee population. The idea that more people coming here that think I should die for being gay scares me, and so does the prospect of more terrorist attacks especially like the one in Orlando.

if you're really arguing for trump from a safety-for-gays-like-me standpoint that is uh

...choices


sorry to burst your bubble, but we are far, far, far more likely to be a victim of a gay-bashing or homophobic attack from domestic "terrorists" or shitheads or whatever you want to call them. additionally, the election of a man whose supporters are (on average) infinitely more homophobic and prejudiced alongside his vice president, who is openly fucking horrible on LGBT rights, is definitely a bad thing for your and my safety and security.

also fun facts about the tragic orlando shooting that you're conveniently using to prop up a highly anti-gay platform...

the shooter called 911 and repeatedly stated that his motive for the shooting was the intense radical violence of the united states against iraq and syria - yes, partially in relation to anti-ISIS attacks, but also wrt the massive amounts of women and children and other innocents being caught in the crossfire, if you can even call it that. do you REALLY think that someone who has promised a ramping up of extreme violence in order to eliminate ISIS is going to decrease the number of domestic terror attacks from islamic extremists?

stop using the blood of your own queer brothers and sisters to justify supporting further hatred and violence, kk? dick move
 
if you're really arguing for trump from a safety-for-gays-like-me standpoint that is uh

...choices


sorry to burst your bubble, but we are far, far, far more likely to be a victim of a gay-bashing or homophobic attack from domestic "terrorists" or shitheads or whatever you want to call them. additionally, the election of a man whose supporters are (on average) infinitely more homophobic and prejudiced alongside his vice president, who is openly fucking horrible on LGBT rights, is definitely a bad thing for your and my safety and security.

also fun facts about the tragic orlando shooting that you're conveniently using to prop up a highly anti-gay platform...

the shooter called 911 and repeatedly stated that his motive for the shooting was the intense radical violence of the united states against iraq and syria - yes, partially in relation to anti-ISIS attacks, but also wrt the massive amounts of women and children and other innocents being caught in the crossfire, if you can even call it that. do you REALLY think that someone who has promised a ramping up of extreme violence in order to eliminate ISIS is going to decrease the number of domestic terror attacks from islamic extremists?

stop using the blood of your own queer brothers and sisters to justify supporting further hatred and violence, kk? dick move
My bad if I sounded like I was trying to politicize Orlando, or do a "fellow-gays-like-me" thing, it wasn't my intention. I know I'm in the very small minorities of gays who support trump. Maybe this belief is wrong or wont happen, I just cant shake the fear that if we take in more refugees from ISIS-torn areas or Syria, the terrorist attacks will increase.
 
The whole Iraq/Syria issue is a great example where just because Trump says something doesn't mean it's true, for at least a couple of reasons:

1) Trump says that refugees aren't vetted before they're let in, or Clinton doesn't want them to be. Refugees are actually screened more thoroughly (by multiple government departments) than maybe anyone else trying to enter America, and as far as I know you guys are more thorough about it than almost any other Western country. It takes months to get through the process, especially if the refugees are from Syria. Clinton has made it clear that she doesn't want to change this.

2) Trump says that current US leaders are "soft" on ISIS. America has dropped thousands of bombs on ISIS. From what I've heard, it's actually becoming a problem that you're dropping bombs more quickly than you can replace them. How much tougher than that can his stance really be?

Not to mention Trump has called for America to kill the families of terrorists, which is both a war crime and morally indefensible. And the danger of being arbitrarily killed because of what other people did has so far seemed to motivate a lot of people to take up arms against America in the first place.

As far as I know, no connection has been found between the Orlando shooter and ISIS, except that he had a history of claiming to support various terrorist groups, and ISIS was the most recent. But maybe there's been an update there that I missed.
 
Would like to clear the record... again.

Only one person has went on an actual personal attack against me and he hasn't posted in forever so that is one thing.

I don't support Trump. My last post about Trump's trade policy should have made that extremely clear

Trump's rhetoric does bring up actual crimes when he talks about bombing terrorist families, but in an election with two major and two minor candidates he appears to be the best one to deal with ISIS. Jill Stein wants to give them all flowers and have them live in peace with mother earth( I don't really know what her plan is, nor to I care. She seems like she will adopt around 30 cats in two years.) Gary Johnson keeps having "Aleppo moments" with foreign policy so trusting him to deal with terrorists is like trusting a dog to watch your steak for you. Hillary Clinton talks about dealing with terrorists and ISIS yet she sold weapons to them, tried to delete the evidence of that. She was around during the Muslim Brotherhood takeover in Egypt, turned out to be awful, and the Syrian red line that has turned into a giant civil war that is causing refugees to flee out and Europe has been plagued by terrorist attacks from this influx, believing she will properly deal with this threat is crazy. That leaves Trump who is going into criminal territory to try and stop them with no real government experience to counter what he is saying seems like the best option for most people going into this election.

As for the gay community, way to complex of an issue to stay here and write out multiple paragraphs for what was suppose to be a quick record clearing post
 
so would you say you're Correcting The Record?

re: Orlando: the dude announced his support for ISIL, Al-Queada, and Hezbollah (Hezbollah are enemies of the other two), so I wouldn't put too much stock in any connection to terrorist groups.
 
The whole Iraq/Syria issue is a great example where just because Trump says something doesn't mean it's true, for at least a couple of reasons:

1) Trump says that refugees aren't vetted before they're let in, or Clinton doesn't want them to be. Refugees are actually screened more thoroughly (by multiple government departments) than maybe anyone else trying to enter America, and as far as I know you guys are more thorough about it than almost any other Western country. It takes months to get through the process, especially if the refugees are from Syria. Clinton has made it clear that she doesn't want to change this.

2) Trump says that current US leaders are "soft" on ISIS. America has dropped thousands of bombs on ISIS. From what I've heard, it's actually becoming a problem that you're dropping bombs more quickly than you can replace them. How much tougher than that can his stance really be?

Not to mention Trump has called for America to kill the families of terrorists, which is both a war crime and morally indefensible. And the danger of being arbitrarily killed because of what other people did has so far seemed to motivate a lot of people to take up arms against America in the first place.

As far as I know, no connection has been found between the Orlando shooter and ISIS, except that he had a history of claiming to support various terrorist groups, and ISIS was the most recent. But maybe there's been an update there that I missed.
See I completely agree with you. But instead of making these arguments and saying "my plan is better", Democrats just call trump racist or Islam phobic. They can win on policy, but don't debate policy and instead run on PC outrage. Like a story from 20 years ago when trump called a woman fat for gaining weight after winning a pageant? Come on. They need to stop with bullshit like that and debate the facts.
 
The fact is trump is not just bad at policy he's also a racist and an islamophobic. In fact those two things are central to his policy ideas.
 
My bad if I sounded like I was trying to politicize Orlando, or do a "fellow-gays-like-me" thing, it wasn't my intention. I know I'm in the very small minorities of gays who support trump. Maybe this belief is wrong or wont happen, I just cant shake the fear that if we take in more refugees from ISIS-torn areas or Syria, the terrorist attacks will increase.
Honey, take a walk around northern Wisconsin and tell me you'll feel safe with a man as president that's openly homophobic and makes it socially ok to be so again. The only thing turning the tide the past few years is the fact we've had a democratic president that continually says it's not ok to gay bash and that discrimination against us is wrong (and a prior conservative president that was by my memory at least mum on the subject). I'm far more concerned about those 3 million people just in my state that are one president away from being able to unleash their anti-gay angst than the 1 in maybe a million "terrorists" that make it through the screening process. I'm far more afraid of losing ground socioeconomically than I am of the incredibly, astronomically tiny chance of dying in a terrorist attack. Like, I get how that's scary, 9/11, Boston and Orlando were terrifying, but you're still wayyy more likely to die in a car crash tomorrow than dying via terrorist attack in your life. This also assumes our vetting process is not good enough or that Clinton will somehow drop the ball on letting terrorists slip through; I just don't see that happening, like ever.

We're just not secure enough in our rights as lgbt people that i can support someone that is 100% the opposite of all the progress that's been made the past 10 years, and has a vp that's even more so. If anything, that's what the blm movement has shown us in the past year (not really equating the two but comparing two similarly historically discriminated groups of citizens).
 
Okay, so I'm nowhere near a political aficionado, but how is not having a plan(on beating ISIS) or not telling us your plan is a good plan/makes you the best option???? It's like when a job interviewer asks you "What can you bring to this job?" and your response is "I might bring something, but I can't tell you, hire me."
 
Honey, take a walk around northern Wisconsin and tell me you'll feel safe with a man as president that's openly homophobic and makes it socially ok to be so again. The only thing turning the tide the past few years is the fact we've had a democratic president that continually says it's not ok to gay bash and that discrimination against us is wrong (and a prior conservative president that was by my memory at least mum on the subject). I'm far more concerned about those 3 million people just in my state that are one president away from being able to unleash their anti-gay angst than the 1 in maybe a million "terrorists" that make it through the screening process. I'm far more afraid of losing ground socioeconomically than I am of the incredibly, astronomically tiny chance of dying in a terrorist attack. Like, I get how that's scary, 9/11, Boston and Orlando were terrifying, but you're still wayyy more likely to die in a car crash tomorrow than dying via terrorist attack in your life. This also assumes our vetting process is not good enough or that Clinton will somehow drop the ball on letting terrorists slip through; I just don't see that happening, like ever.

We're just not secure enough in our rights as lgbt people that i can support someone that is 100% the opposite of all the progress that's been made the past 10 years, and has a vp that's even more so. If anything, that's what the blm movement has shown us in the past year (not really equating the two but comparing two similarly historically discriminated groups of citizens).
lol I live just outside of Washington DC, probably the gayest city in America, and even I don't feel safe walking around holding hands with a guy in many parts of town.

And trust me, it's not because of terrorism.
 
Don't ask don't tell was a compromise Bill had to make. He was running on the grounds of allowing all citzens to serve in the millitary.



You also have to remember that opinions on gay rights were RADICALLY different then they are now. American public opinon on homosexual acceptance and gay marriage has changed naturally by a large percentage since then and so have many politicans views. There was hardly any politicans in the 90's openly supporting gay rights as they exist today because there just wasn't the public opinion behind that. Gradually though, that changed and it reflected in mainly democrats campaign policies.


I mean just look at how the view of same sex marriage changed since the 90's http://www.people-press.org/2012/02/07/growing-public-support-for-same-sex-marriage/


No sane politican was sadly going to be in a national office and have a modern day LGBT friendly platform and survive. That's why many of us LGBT don't mind as much when someone wasn't as "gay friendly" back then because the political climate was just different and people were way more homophobic.



If you want to look at a harrowing statistic, only 48% of american approved of interracial marriage in the 90's http://www.gallup.com/poll/163697/approve-marriage-blacks-whites.aspx
 
Going to be interesting to see how LeBron's endorsement of Hillary impacts the race, especially in Ohio. James is one of the most well-spoken and recognizable figures in sports, one of the athletes most connected with his community (born and raised in Akron), and also happens to be impacting the batteground state of Ohio, which Trump almost has to win. Of course all celebrities endorse politicians but LeBron's respect and pull in a specific state or region might be unrivaled.
 
If LeBron is going to have any impact in Ohio, it'll probably be in the Columbus area. From my understanding, northeast Ohio is already solidly blue.

It'll be interesting to see if the endorsement has any impact on polling. If it does, I wonder if the Trump campaign reaches out to Urban Meyer (who endorsed Kasich in the primary).
 
and not allowing refugees from areas that practice Sharia Law or that ISIS can easily infiltrate the refugee population. The idea that more people coming here that think I should die for being gay scares me, and so does the prospect of more terrorist attacks especially like the one in Orlando.

??? Every major religion condemns homosexuality. Are you afraid that the 70% of Christians in America think you should die for being gay? Stop being ignorant

You know whats dumber than allowing people who hate gays into the country? Voting for one as vice president lol
 
How dare you forget Jill Stein. How much crazier does she have to be until you remember she is running too lol

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/warrant...candidate-jill-steins-arrest-in-north-dakota/
posted this before, but just to help with the joke

And that has got to be the craziest arrest warrant for a Presidential candidate ever. If the Democratic or Republican nominee did something like that, every facet of it would be gone over in detail.

You'd have interviews from surrogates proclaiming innocence and prosecutors saying that he or she should be in jail, not the White House as nauseum!

It's actually too bad it wasn't Hillary who thought of doing this. I think many millennial activists would approve. "Finally, someone who is willing to stand up to the corporate and political elite and their bullshit, laws be damned!"

To bad that critics are probably just saying she respects the law no better than Trump.

Of course grandparents care about the future. They just obviously care about very different things than the grandkids whose futures they purportedly are trying to improve. I'm pretty sure the majority of young voters these days have grandparents whose views they find to at best be out of date and at worst racist/sexist/etc. It's a generational divide.

Like my grandparents refer to my aunt's friends as "crazy lesbians" and think that Obama is a Muslim. They've said some pretty racist things about my cousin's chinese wife.

The great irony of course is they assured me last year at thanksgiving that they thought Trump was a profound idiot and they would never vote for him (they supported rubio) and now they're enthusiastic supporters of him. Amazing what partisan hatred of the opponent does.

And there in lies part of the problem. They think they know what's good for us, or at least what would be worse for us. However bad Trump might be, Hillary will destroy the country, because of reasons, end of story!

I will never forget about a conversation that I had with a customer at my Publix. She wanted me to give Trump a chance! I hate Hillary, but as if I'm going to give a person who has spent his whole life profiting off of making problems for other people. Not. One. Iota. Of. A. Chance.

When I heard he utter that God made Trump strong, and that he was basically chosen by God to save this country, like he was some sort of messianic figure, I knew that as nice of a person she may be, that she needs to put down her bible and turn off Fox News for an hour, and really research things like You've Been Trumped and Trump University. For at least an hour. I don't know whether I should have said that. She might think a little less of me since I'm a Progressive, but then, at least she treated me with respect. She probably thinks I'm as mistaken for not voting for Trump as I think she is making a mistake voting for him. Maybe it is a good thing I said I was thinking of voting for Jill Stein, and not Hillary?

People think that not only is Trump the lesser of two evils, but some even think (or have deluded themselves into thinking) he will save the country.
 
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??? Every major religion condemns homosexuality. Are you afraid that the 70% of Christians in America think you should die for being gay? Stop being ignorant

You know whats dumber than allowing people who hate gays into the country? Voting for one as vice president lol
I mean that's not really comparable is it

0d8f48501a.png

(https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ere-homosexuality-may-be-punished-by-death-2/)

fba3fdd8a7.jpg

(http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...-groups-grow-more-accepting-of-homosexuality/) note that
"Among Christians, this trend is driven partly by younger church members, who are generally more accepting of homosexuality than their elder counterparts. For example, roughly half (51%) of evangelical Protestants in the Millennial generation (born between 1981 and 1996) say homosexuality should be accepted by society, compared with a third of evangelical Baby Boomers and a fifth of evangelicals in the Silent generation."



Whereas in the UK among muslims
615c3b08be.png

(http://www.civitas.org.uk/archive/pdf/ShariaLawOrOneLawForAll.pdf)


Here's all USA religions for good measure
efe78380bc.jpg

(http://www.pewforum.org/2015/11/03/chapter-4-social-and-political-attitudes/)

Note that muslim acceptance ratio is 4th lowest, after jehovah, mormon, and evangelical protestant. Things that would have been good: breaking down sects of non-christian religions as well.



While the USA has made good strides in acceptance of homosexuality, there's really no denying that globally the islamic faith is less accepting than christian faith. I don't think that 70% of american christians think that gays deserve to be killed when this says the direct opposite. What's particularly "troubling" is that among young members of islam in the UK, acceptance of homosexuality is shockingly low at 25%. I don't practice any religion myself but given the fact that I made this post it's pretty clear that I've got some bias towards telling you who is actually more accepting.


Not that I think Mike Pence is anything above human trash or that I have any problem with the current USA refugee policy in place (w/ extreme and long vetting process).




Also does smogon have small picture options????
 
hey gato, when pretty much every smoggay says that it's an idiotic point and that we are far more scared of being gaybashed or otherwise discriminated against by the many millions of powerful christians already living in the US than the few thousand extra muslims who would come here as refugees and need to keep their head down, maybe you should take the hint.

More unimportant numbers (that trust me we're all aware of already... we're not stupid) aren't convincing anyone.

What matters isn't the overall acceptance numbers anyway. It's what those who DON'T accept it are going to do. And 46% of American christians saying they don't accept homosexuality is a big fucking problem when they're your bosses and landlords and doctors and kids' teachers etc.
 
Syrian refugees would probably not even make a 1% difference in the amount of residents of the USA who have an issue with gay people. How many refugees do you think would enter?? The USA partly ruined the middle east, and while i'm not justifying any terrorist attacks (since they're all inhumane and awful), it's still worth noting that they do come as a result of the US (and other European countries) prodding for oil and supplying weapons to Israel. A lot of conflict in the Middle East is the fault of the USA, maybe we should have some small responsibility of taking in Syrian refugees.

The whole population of Syria could enter the USA and the majority of people in this country who have an issue with gay people would STILL be white. And Syrian refugees entering, regardless of those statistics, would have a tiny effect on the amount of people who don't accept gays in the USA overall.

I think it's unfair to complain about Syrian refugees' potential anti-gay views when they almost certainly wouldn't have an effect on gay people; at least, people like Mike Pence, Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, who all have controlling hands in politics are far more threatening to gay people than Syrian refugees lol.

And finally don't imply that the Orlando attack and Syrian refugees are related. Omar Mateen, the Orlando terrorist, was an American-born Afghani man. He's neither Syrian nor a refugee. You're grouping an American Afghani second-generation immigrant with Syrian Refugees. Racist beliefs like these basically allow people like Trump to pin all terrorist attacks on American "Muslims" (using this as a term for Arabs, since he and ignorant trump supporters seemt o believe all Arab people are Muslims) and say they should be deported.
 
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