Gen VII: Pokemon Sun and Moon Discussion MKII

[Siggu]

Unlikely plot twist that would be cool: Silvadi actually evolves into Arceus. Arceus was a robot the whole time.

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."

Now, in terms of Silvadi's stat distribution, I think it would actually be nice for it to have the classic 100-all-around base stats. Would make sense for an Arceus wannabe.

And what if we are getting two pseudo-legendaries this generation? Just like Salamence and Metagross... we may have Jangmo-o's final evolution and Silvadi (Why not a two-stage pseudo for once?)

 

[Kietharr]

They've never revealed the pseudo before launch afaik, there isn't much evidence that Jangmo is actually the pseudo outside of his dragon typing and 3 stage line, which as Haxorus showed us before is no guarantee of 600BST.

 

[Codraroll]

Is it even stated outright that Silvadi is the evolution of Type: Null, or just that Type: Null turns into Silvadi after some condition is fulfilled?

If the latter is the case, you could argue that Type: Null is not a Pokémon per se. Just a "pseudo-Pokémon", or a form of Silvadi, akin to Pokémon XD's Shadow Lugia, named XD001.

If I may hypothesize: Type: Null will only be known as Type: Null before you obtain it. It will fight under Gladion's command, but with reduced stats compared to the "real thing", and the Rotom dex will not recognize it (hence the name). Then later, it will break its seal, become free from the Aether Foundation or Team Skull or whatever, show its true colours as Silvadi, and only then will you be able to interact with it like a regular Pokémon.

Other comparisons would be the cocoon forms of Xerneas and Yveltal, the Marowak Ghost, or Mewtwo in its power armour from the first movie. Technically a creature in the franchise, it may even battle you at some point, but unobtainable in those forms. And when you get them later, there are no signs of their pre-transformation form to be found.

 

[TruthfulCake]

A little follow-up regarding Silvadi and its possibly being an equal of Arceus, instead of being a poor-man's version of it:

I am pretty sure people have noted that Silvadi's name is derived from Shiva, the Hindu deity. Much like Zeus, Arceus' supposed namesake, is the prime deity in Greek mythology, Shiva is the prime deity in Hindu-ism. The Wikipedia entry for Shiva reads:

"Shiva is "the destroyer" within the Trimurti, the Hindu trinity that includes Brahma and Vishnu.... In the goddess tradition of Hinduism, the goddess is described as supreme.... At the highest level, Shiva is regarded as formless, limitless, transcendent and unchanging absolute Brahman, and the primal Atman (soul, self) of the universe."

Much like Arceus is noted for being the "creator" the Pokemon universe, Silvadi's Shiva is noted for being mainly the "destroyer". The "limitless" remark matches the Japanese description for Silvadi as well.

As Sun/Moon has been said to have heavy alchemy themes, I think it is not a stretch to believe that Silvadi is the culmination of alchemy - the goal of humans to achieve something as close to God as possible. Whoever created Silvadi (Team Aether?) must have seen to it that its power is sealed by creating Type: Null. There has not been a precedent where a man-made Pokemon is designed to be "weaker" than it is supposed to be (although there is a man-made Pokemon becoming "stronger" than designed a la Mega Mewtwo), which meant that Silvadi must have been a very successful creation for the mask limiter to be necessary.

Another thing I am very interested in is the connection between Silvadi and "memory". It certainly sounds a little robotic when one thinks about it in the computer memory sense. However, as Gamefreak is being very clever lately, I suspect that the word memory might have another meaning - alluding to a certain game mechanic introduced in Generation VI.

Finally, there is also this thing about Type: Null evolving when it finds a trainer it trusts, suggesting that it does not evolve by leveling up. However, I find it hard to believe that it is implying Friendship- or Affection-based evolution, as a Pokemon that is supposedly as powerful as the legends should not be unlocked with such an easily exploitable evolution method (you can evolve before level 10 with these sorts of evolution!).

If all my speculations are not misguided, that: a. Silvadi is basically an Arceus equivalent (or above), and b. Silvadi will put the memory mechanic to good use, then it might be the case that Type: Null evolves upon unlocking a certain memory with its trainer. It has certainly not been done before, and I suppose it is a guarantee that Type: Null will not evolve prematurely before reaching a certain point in the game. Would be pretty anti-climactic otherwise.

So many things to speculate about this one Pokemon. Getting very excited about Sun/Moon!

 

[13_luckynumber]

Is it even stated outright that Silvadi is the evolution of Type: Null, or just that Type: Null turns into Silvadi after some condition is fulfilled?

If the latter is the case, you could argue that Type: Null is not a Pokémon per se. Just a "pseudo-Pokémon", or a form of Silvadi, akin to Pokémon XD's Shadow Lugia, named XD001.

If I may hypothesize: Type: Null will only be known as Type: Null before you obtain it. It will fight under Gladion's command, but with reduced stats compared to the "real thing", and the Rotom dex will not recognize it (hence the name). Then later, it will break its seal, become free from the Aether Foundation or Team Skull or whatever, show its true colours as Silvadi, and only then will you be able to interact with it like a regular Pokémon.

Other comparisons would be the cocoon forms of Xerneas and Yveltal, the Marowak Ghost, or Mewtwo in its power armour from the first movie. Technically a creature in the franchise, it may even battle you at some point, but unobtainable in those forms. And when you get them later, there are no signs of their pre-transformation form to be found.

Serebii goes in-depth on the language used in Corocoro and Silvadi is Type: Null's regular evolution. Regular as in how Caterpie evolves into Metapod

 

[IcyMan28]

Ok I wasn't the biggest fan of Type:Null with its initial reveal but with this new artwork and lore behind Silvadi I'm definitely on board. I'm hoping they don't just mimic Arceus' stat spread but at a slightly weaker level but rather give it something to stand out. Cool design.

Yangmo-o's evos look pretty cool, and Dragon/Fighting is a type I've been wanting for some time now.

As for new demo details, the mention of Gold/Ruby Pokemon being adapted to Alola suggests alola forms for at least some of those Pokemon, which I couldn't be happier about. My god I cannot wait for #dataminemonday.

 

[Philos]

I totally see Silvadi in Ubers with that ability. If it's like a pseudo-Arceus, then it probably can learn the same TMs like it, which means endless combination of attacks and it'll be like a glue Pokemon to any team. Also, for some reason I think Silvadi's going to have 600 BST with a 100 spread.

 

[Daemul]

The biggest hint for how strong Silvadi will be is if he's banned from the coming season of VGC or not, a Pokemon potentially stronger than box legends isn't going to be allowed in when the likes of Lunala are also banned. If he isn't banned then don't expect much guys.

 

[Hourai]

The biggest hint for how strong Silvadi will be is if he's banned from the coming season of VGC or not, a Pokemon potentially stronger than box legends isn't going to be allowed in when the likes of Mewtwo are also banned. If he isn't banned then don't expect much guys, if he is banned then let your imaginations run wild.

Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Salamence weren't banned from VGC despite them being relatively broken even in VGC in their years

 

[Project_Mars]

As Sun/Moon has been said to have heavy alchemy themes, I think it is not a stretch to believe that Silvadi is the culmination of alchemy - the goal of humans to achieve something as close to God as possible.

Basically this. Silvadi is pretty much man's folly at trying to recreate god. If the Aether Foundation is responsible for it, then this a huge red flag for them being evil.

Which makes me wonder about Gladion. (that is emo team skull boy's name, right? I keep forgetting it.) If Aether Foundation made Type:Null/Silvadi then it could be that he wasnt a fan of what they were doing so he freed it and escaped. (Also assuming the theory on him being related to Lusamine is accurate) Either that or they raided the Aether Foundation once, stole it, and that is the main reason why Aether is going after Teak Skull.

I totally see Silvadi in Ubers with that ability. If it's like a pseudo-Arceus, then it probably can learn the same TMs like it, which means endless combination of attacks and it'll be like a glue Pokemon to any team. Also, for some reason I think Silvadi's going to have 600 BST with a 100 spread.

Would it be Ubers with that ability though? Definitely too soon to find out and it would be a huge waste since it is likely to be outclassed by Original Arceus.

Besides, Mew isn't ubers and can learn any TM/Move Tutor move, so if it does have 100s in every stat it isn't automatically busted.

But that's neither here nor there. We don't have anything to go on related to it at this juncture.

Edit:

The biggest hint for how strong Silvadi will be is if he's banned from the coming season of VGC or not, a Pokemon potentially stronger than box legends isn't going to be allowed in when the likes of Lunala are also banned. If he isn't banned then don't expect much guys.

If it is banned then that just means it is either a box legendary or a Mythical Pokemon.

 

[Daemul]

Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Salamence weren't banned from VGC despite them being relatively broken even in VGC in their years

Yes, but other Megas and/or powerful legends were allowed in as well at the same time when they were. A potentially 720BST Pokemon isn't going to be let in when the rest of his peers are banned. Its the reason why Mewtwo is banned despite not being a box legend or Mythical.

 

[Pyritie]

The biggest hint for how strong Silvadi will be is if he's banned from the coming season of VGC or not

tell that to phione

 

[Daemul]

tell that to phione

Phione is a mythical, they're banned regardless of power, Type:Null as far as we're aware is not a mythical.

 

[Project_Mars]

Phione is a mythical, Type:Null as far as we're aware is not.

Which should already tell you what you need to know. Nintendo does blanket bans on Mythics, Cover Legends and now Mega Evolutions, with Dark Void having been banned due to it being considered OP previously (as the last three seasons have indicated, not completely true) while Sky Drop was banned due to a glitch. (And Sould Dew was event only)

I don't think Nintendo has ever banned a specific Pokemon that would otherwise not fall under said blanket ban, and I doubt they'll start now unless it was somehow glitched. (And they can now just patch that.)

 

[TruthfulCake]

When will the full VGC banlist be revealed anyway? They won't do that before revealing the whole Pokedex, right? Otherwise it's just spoilers. Besides, there are too many factors that decides whether or not a Pokemon will be banned in VGC. It can be weak but banned if it has a mythical status like Phione, or powerful but allowed if it is something they want to promote in that particular generation (700 BST Mega Evolutions). Besides, the word "mythical" is in the Corocoro page for Silvadi (I translated 神話 as legend, but it is more myth, really).

Basically whether or not Silvadi will be banned from VGC will probably tell us very little about its strength. Status, maybe, but not strength. I think the biggest hint will be the datamine that is bound to happen as soon as the demo is released. Until then, I suppose we can just infer from the Corocoro reveal.

 

[Daemul]

I don't think Nintendo has ever banned a specific Pokemon that would otherwise not fall under said blanket ban

Mewtwo and Zygarde (though Pokemon Z activists will be salty about this lol)

When will the full VGC banlist be revealed anyway? They won't do that before revealing the whole Pokedex, right? Otherwise it's just spoilers. Besides, there are too many factors that decides whether or not a Pokemon will be banned in VGC. It can be weak but banned if it has a mythical status like Phione, or powerful but allowed if it is something they want to promote in that particular generation (700 BST Mega Evolutions). Besides, the word "mythical" is in the Corocoro page for Silvadi (I translated 神話 as legend, but it is more myth, really).

Basically whether or not Silvadi will be banned from VGC will probably tell us very little about its strength. Status, maybe, but not strength. I think the biggest hint will be the datamine that is bound to happen as soon as the demo is released. Until then, I suppose we can just infer from the Corocoro reveal.

Yeah true, we'll just have to wait.

 

[HauntedPumpkin]

I really like Savadi's design. They definitely did not disappoint with Type: Null's secret. I might even use it on my first playthrough.

I don't like Jangmo-o's evolutions, though. At this point I'm on the crowd that's gonna wait for their in-game models to fully decide, but they look pretty overdesigned, imo. The last thing I wanted was another bipedal and Haxorus-lite design for a Dragon. Doesn't help that it gained my least favorite typing upon evolution, but whatever.

Every single revealed design looked 100x better in game anyway, so there's no worries there.

Maybe it's just me, but Lycanroc's midday form certainly looks better in the artwork, just off the top of my head.

 

[Project_Mars]

Mewtwo and Zygarde (though Pokemon Z activists will be salty about this lol)

True, but Mewtwo is the true final boss of Gen 1, and had they done Pokemon Z there is no denying that Zygarde would have been on the cover. Also Nintendo really needs a way to differentiate between, say, Entei and Ho-Oh... besides the "Restricted" moniker they used for VGC2016 since both are referred to as legendary. Cover Legendary mostly works since, except for three cases, all the Pokemon in that group were on the cover for a game in that generation.

 

[TheMantyke]

Mewtwo and Zygarde (though Pokemon Z activists will be salty about this lol)



Yeah true, we'll just have to wait.

The term "cover legendary" typically also includes Mewtwo and Zygarde, despite them not literally appearing on the cover of a video game as they're around that same level of power (with Zygarde being an odd man out in this case). There is no official term for this entire group of legendary Pokemon, sadly, so the definitions get a bit muddy.

At any rate, this conversation is getting off topic and jumping from cool new SuMo information to talk about what the VGC events allow. Let's end it and redirect the conversation back to other aspects of our recent news.

 

[IcyMan28]

http://shelgon.tumblr.com/post/151734111644/pokémon-sun-and-moon-previews-details-gamespot

So according to this master post:

• • @GameSpot refers to trials as an “item collection and boss battle system”
  • @IGN also confirms that the player has a father, but you don’t see him.
  • @IGN says that they were not able to access Poke Pelago or Ride Pokémon. Those must come later in the game.
  • According to @IGN, there’s a fortune teller in the Festival Plaza
  • According to @xgnnl, you get the Exp. Share very early on, at the Trainers’ School
  • You meet Captain Ilima at the Trainers’ School, who is the captain of the first trial (via @XGNnl)
  • IGN editor says stereoscopic 3D works in PokeFinder, but nowhere else
  • Kukui previously battled the Indigo Gym Leaders while researching Pokémon moves in Kanto
  • According to @Gamekult, there is a Tauros that blocks the road (to stop you going too far ahead). Maybe you get past when you ride it?
  • According to @GameXplain, there is plentiful money even early on in the game.
  • A number of previewers have mentioned that there are interesting events involving cutscenes they cannot discuss
  • @JVCom says they didn’t get to use Z-Moves or Mega Evolution in the first 2 hours.
  • Quite a few reviewers didn’t manage to make it to the first trial in their allotted 2 hours.
  • Your Trainer is originally from Kanto and arrives by plane
  • @PocketGamer also says the game has no stereoscopic 3D, even in battle.
  • @PocketGamer says “monsters you remember from Red or Gold or Ruby have been reinvented to suit the Alolan environment.”
  • When a Pokémon evolves, you see its entire evolutionary family on-screen (via @VG247)
  • The Gumshoos trial is the first trial in the game.
  • @PocketGamer says definitively that Gyms are GONE and replaced by trials.
  • @PocketGamer says definitively that Gyms are GONE and replaced by trials.
  • According to @Millenium, you get a mysterious stone from Lillie, before your starter Pokémon.
  • After defeating Hau a second time, Hala gives you a Z-Ring. The mysterious stone from Lillie is a Z-Crystal.

Quoting since this seems to be skipped over.

The quests are item collections and battles, and apparently there's quite some time before the first one. The battles I assume fill in for gyms but I wonder what kind of items you'll be searching for. I could see them being the source of various Z-crystals or other important items. Of note, Ilima being the leader of the first trial (Gumshoos/Raticate-A) seems to hit that she's a normal type specialist. Appropriate.

Looks like extremely early Exp. Share. I'm torn between turning it off early to maintain game challenge and leaving it on to help raise my lesser Pokemon and discover evolutions. I guess I'll leave it on in one game and off in the other since I'm getting both sun and moon.

We're from Kanto, we have a father, and Kukui himself is a pretty good trainer after having battled the Kanto gym leaders. Interesting.

We now see a pokemon's entire evolutionary family when it evolves. I wonder if this refers to a silhouette of the next stage or just those that we've already seen.

Finally, looks like the game is more cinematic with various cutscenes. I believe another review mentioned one involving a broken bridge and the protagonist being saved by Tapu Koko. Looking forward to this.

 

[Project_Mars]

One if the things shown in corocoro concerns the Physical Z bracelet and seems to indicate that it has some kind of conectivity to the game. Any idea what that is about?

 

[D_what]

Let's end it and redirect the conversation back to other aspects of our recent news.

Where did Alolan Grimer's teeth come from :B

I wonder if Alolan Muk could learn Crunch or Bite. They'd be thematically relevant.


Edit:

One if the things shown in corocoro concerns the Physical Z bracelet and seems to indicate that it has some kind of conectivity to the game. Any idea what that is about?

It lights up and makes sounds whenever you use a Z move. Possibly through Infrared, though I can't remember. That was kind of old news, there might be other stuff it does too.

Also it's rigid plastic and designed for kids, so it may or may not comfortably fit around most of our wrists. So don't get your hopes up, if your hopes are the type to be raised by battery-powered LEDs and soundboxes.

 

[Mova]

Now that we have seen Jangmo-o's evolution line and Silvadi, it seems that fifty new Pokémon have already been revealed. I don't mind this at all, since I want to know which Pokémon I want to use during the story.

 

[TruthfulCake]

Kind of bummed that there won't be stereoscopic 3D in the in-game battles. Maybe they have learned that the 3DS hardware is not capable of handling Pokemon games in all its 3D glory, what with the horrible lag during horde battles in XY/ORAS.

One if the things shown in corocoro concerns the Physical Z bracelet and seems to indicate that it has some kind of conectivity to the game. Any idea what that is about?

From what I can tell, it is a gadget that synchronizes with the game when you use a Z-Move. It will light up and vibrate and such to make you feel the impact of the move - a gimmick that most likely won't affect gameplay. Just a toy for kids who want to pose and dance with their in-game characters IMO.

 

[RandysRage]

Jangmo-o's final evo looks as regal and powerful as I had hoped, with a sort of Mayan/Aztec vibe coming from it as well. Dragon/Fighting is a great type combo (Fairy weakness aside) and I hope it does well in competitive.

Silvadi is everything I loved about Type: Null cranked up to 11. Arceus's ability and signature move coming off of a non-Legendary Pokemon? Sign me up.