hmm not the type of person to post things on here but can we talk about how marshadow has 0 counters that can switch on it safely if we ignore the poison type which seems the only safe type in the Ghost/Fighting Meta
It is true that marshadow has zero counters due to combination of speed,good attack stat,typing. Marshadow with its release has already different sets in usage such as Bulk up+3 attack Marshadowium z,Choice band,choice scarf,life orb to point out. All sets cannot be checked by the same pokemon that can check marshadow. For example: Mega sharpedo cannot check marshadow at +1 speed or how mandibuzz cannot quite switch in on banded marshadow on dark match ups:hmm not the type of person to post things on here but can we talk about how marshadow has 0 counters that can switch on it safely if we ignore the poison type which seems the only safe type in the Ghost/Fighting Meta
I agree / sympathize with most of your post, but to me this is confusing - Why use CS Meloetta over Ditto when it comes to Marshadow? Having Ditto at least means you force opponent into 50/50 when Marshadow is out (i.e do I hit Spectral Thief thinking ditto will switch in, or Close Comabt thinking it won't). Both Melo and Ditto can KO Marshdow once in, but Melo can be outsped by CS Marshadow but Ditto at least will tie (better than nothing).Normal
Same Psychic I had to run Choice Scarf Meloetta over Choice Scarf Ditto, which left my team susceptible to set up sweepers such as Mega Pinsir and Volcarona. When building a Normal team I had a choice either autolosing to Marshadow or being extremely weak to set up sweepers. With Marshadow I don't even see normal as viable option to use in the current metagame.
If you have to run Mega Audino Normal just to be competitive that is a reg flag in my opinion. In my opinion Mega Audino is 3rd best mega to use on Normal behind Lopunny and Pidegot. Sure Ditto can check Marshadow, but the player has to be inexperienced to make that happen and it's still not a sure thing. With Melo it's a sure thing. 252 Atk Marshadow Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Meloetta: 237-279 (69.5 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO even if it's Scarfed. If I have to win a 50 50 over just not needing to take the risk or risk a speed tie. Using Ditto is setting you up for a situation that wouldn't be a problem with Scarf Meloetta. Honestly if I have to run Mega Audino to be successful and win a 50 50 how is that healthy and still makes Normal a viable option? I don't understand what you're trying to argue in here, but using Mega Audino on Normal over Mega Lopunny or Pidgeot to be successful is unhealthy. Honestly forcing a 50 50 with Ditto isn't optimal result compared to always beating it with Choice Scarf Meloetta. I don't get you're argument because you mention using Mega Audino to specifically beat Marshadow when it obviously isn't better than Mega Lopunny and Pidgeot in other matchups.I agree / sympathize with most of your post, but to me this is confusing - Why use CS Meloetta over Ditto when it comes to Marshadow? Having Ditto at least means you force opponent into 50/50 when Marshadow is out (i.e do I hit Spectral Thief thinking ditto will switch in, or Close Comabt thinking it won't). Both Melo and Ditto can KO Marshdow once in, but Melo can be outsped by CS Marshadow but Ditto at least will tie (better than nothing).
I mean, I think forcing that 50/50 is really important (mentally), because most marshadow are choiced so being immune to shadow sneak isn't SUPER important (plus band/LO marshadow can still be revenged if low from a ditto shadow sneak anyway) You're losing against CS Marshadow regardless with Melo if it switches into stealth rock twice. CS Marshadow is an easy switch in to Audino / Bewear anyway. Marshadow against Ghost is REALLY handy, because the only thing ghost has that can switch in is Sab, and even that can be 2HKO with some prior damage. Melo just kinda gets walled by Sab and even Jelicent.
Against fighting Ditto is still pretty good. Unless Fighting is using Buzzswole or something Marshdow does well against the average fighting team, as they tend to lack ghost switch ins.
I'm lattering with balanced normal (might even call it semi-stall), and between ditto and M-Audino I'm not overly struggling anymore than I would normally with ghost or fighting, so saying it isn't viable is a bit of a stretch.
The problem is that, you shouldn't have to rely on 50/50s alone to win a match, which is what scarf ditto is forcing you to do, while scarf meloetta is more consistent. It really comes down to whether you're vs fighting or ghost to how the match will play out (on paper).I agree / sympathize with most of your post, but to me this is confusing - Why use CS Meloetta over Ditto when it comes to Marshadow? Having Ditto at least means you force opponent into 50/50 when Marshadow is out (i.e do I hit Spectral Thief thinking ditto will switch in, or Close Comabt thinking it won't). Both Melo and Ditto can KO Marshdow once in, but Melo can be outsped by CS Marshadow but Ditto at least will tie (better than nothing).
I mean, I think forcing that 50/50 is really important (mentally), because most marshadow are choiced so being immune to shadow sneak isn't SUPER important (plus band/LO marshadow can still be revenged if low from a ditto shadow sneak anyway) You're losing against CS Marshadow regardless with Melo if it switches into stealth rock twice. CS Marshadow is an easy switch in to Audino / Bewear anyway. Marshadow against Ghost is REALLY handy, because the only thing ghost has that can switch in is Sab, and even that can be 2HKO with some prior damage. Melo just kinda gets walled by Sab and even Jelicent.
Against fighting Ditto is still pretty good. Unless Fighting is using Buzzswole or something Marshdow does well against the average fighting team, as they tend to lack ghost switch ins.
I'm lattering with balanced normal (might even call it semi-stall), and between ditto and M-Audino I'm not overly struggling anymore than I would normally with ghost or fighting, so saying it isn't viable is a bit of a stretch.
The Terrakion on this absolutely needs to be running Zen Headbutt somewhere, as of current all your counterplay vs opposing Marshadow is hoping you win the speed tie with your own, which isn't really desirable, and Zen is useful outside of this in the mirror. It doesn't help much vs Ghost but a well built Marshadow Ghost shouldn't be losing to Fighting. Earthquake is garb anyway.Welp, with Mega Gallade along with Marshadow in the metagame, I can finally call Fighting decent this gen. And to celebrate this occasion, I'd like to share this Fighting team that I've seen quite a lot of success with:
Gallade-Mega @ Galladite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Zen Headbutt
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
Terrakion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
Keldeo-Resolute @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Scald
Cobalion @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Thunder Wave
Marshadow @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch
Breloom @ Focus Sash
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Bullet Seed
- Mach Punch
- Rock Tomb
- Spore
Mega Gallade alongside Marshadow prove to be devastating assets in some of Fighting's toughest matchups this gen in Poison and Psychic respectively. While this build utilizes Banded Marshadow, LO mixed sets can work just as viably. Along with these 2 comes some other staple picks for Fighting teams in Terrakion, Keldeo, and Cobalion, as well as Breloom thanks to its amazing utility. I can definitely see a lot of Fighting builds looking very similar to this. But let me know your thoughts on how Fighting stands now that Marshadow and Mega Gallade have arrived.
Thank you very much for the suggestions, and I really appreciate them. I had heard about Z-Bulk Up a few times, but was never entirely sold on the idea. Considering how the Marshadium Z can break past Toxapex and Mega Venusaur, which are some of the only defensive countermeasures for Marshadow in the entire metagame, always felt like a much more desirable option. However, I will try out this Marshadow set and see how it works. Thanks again for your suggestions :)The Terrakion on this absolutely needs to be running Zen Headbutt somewhere, as of current all your counterplay vs opposing Marshadow is hoping you win the speed tie with your own, which isn't really desirable, and Zen is useful outside of this in the mirror. It doesn't help much vs Ghost but a well built Marshadow Ghost shouldn't be losing to Fighting. Earthquake is garb anyway.
Marshadow @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Close Combat
- Spectral Thief
- Shadow Sneak
- Bulk Up
I like Marshadium Z but this set is probably more fun imo! It might prove to be equally or more viable longterm. Running Fight Z gives a lot of flexibility, as you get a Fighting nuke without drawbacks or what I consider to be a frankly broken setup move, boosting Attack to +2 and Defense to +1, which with this kind of STAB coverage, Speed and priority makes you extremely difficult to revenge kill should you be able to pull off the boosts. Would only recommend this set for Fighting teams, as they have a tendency to drag in scarfers with their other offensive team members which you can use as a setup opportunity thanks to Marshadow's typing, eg. locked Terrak in the Fighting mirror. You can also set up on a p big list of physical attackers thanks to the +1 Def boost, similar to other Bulk Up sets. I did have a great game with this earlier where I swept an Electric team with ease after forcing Koko to take rocks damage twice and setting up on a slightly weakened Zapdos, but unfort I didn't save it.
O sry, I realise how my post looked, only the bit about Zen Headbutt was relevant to your team, the bit about the Marshadow set was just for discussion, your current set is perfectly fine. Will edit to fix the post up a lil.Thank you very much for the suggestions, and I really appreciate them. I had heard about Z-Bulk Up a few times, but was never entirely sold on the idea. Considering how the Marshadium Z can break past Toxapex and Mega Venusaur, which are some of the only defensive countermeasures for Marshadow in the entire metagame, always felt like a much more desirable option. However, I will try out this Marshadow set and see how it works. Thanks again for your suggestions :)
Not sure if this is the right place, but you should post your complete sets of you really want us to evaluate your team.I have a question, and I'd like some feedback. However, please don't immediately dismiss this simply with a claim of "it's nonstandard" or "it compromises the standard defensive core" without any solid explanation.
I've been experimenting with a nonstandard offensive Normal team. It includes a couple gimmicky sets, but for some reason, I've found it to work quite well. I will say that my ladder ranking isn't super high, but I have won unranked matches with skilled friends.
The team features no Chansey, with Porygon2 instead being a mixed wall (max SpD and Def). However, even Porygon2 runs Charge Beam so it can act as a semi-setup sweeper. I know it's not standard, I know it's borderline unviable, but it works. For some reason. The team also has Guts Swellow (which I may replace with Scarf Staraptor), but my main question involves the viability of the team as a whole involving no Chansey.
The remainder of the team is Mega Lopunny, Z-Conversion PorygonZ, Smeargle, and Ditto.
I know this may not be the place for a full RMT, so I'm not posting the team in full, I'm just asking:
Does this team seem viable?
hi!I have a question, and I'd like some feedback. However, please don't immediately dismiss this simply with a claim of "it's nonstandard" or "it compromises the standard defensive core" without any solid explanation.
I've been experimenting with a nonstandard offensive Normal team. It includes a couple gimmicky sets, but for some reason, I've found it to work quite well. I will say that my ladder ranking isn't super high, but I have won unranked matches with skilled friends.
The team features no Chansey, with Porygon2 instead being a mixed wall (max SpD and Def). However, even Porygon2 runs Charge Beam so it can act as a semi-setup sweeper. I know it's not standard, I know it's borderline unviable, but it works. For some reason. The team also has Guts Swellow (which I may replace with Scarf Staraptor), but my main question involves the viability of the team as a whole involving no Chansey.
The remainder of the team is Mega Lopunny, Z-Conversion PorygonZ, Smeargle, and Ditto.
I know this may not be the place for a full RMT, so I'm not posting the team in full, I'm just asking:
Does this team seem viable?
I haven't really felt the need for additional wallbreaking power because PZ is very powerful once Z-Converted, and Guts Swellow is directly comparable to Kyurem-B in power (exact same Attack stat; Facade is a 140BP STAB attack). Add that to the fact that non-statusing walls can't really do much to Porygon2, and I haven't really felt like the team needs more raw power.hi!
for starters, i would definitely make p2 max Def max Hp since chansey pretty much covers every special threat, there's just no need for spdef p2. if you aren't worried about viability and want to keep your sets i would make p2 boltbeam hp fire dl recover (with charge beam), standard chansey with counter over toxic, and diggersby over pz since you already have a pseudo boltbeam sweeper in p2 and you could really use the wallbreaking power that the rest of your team seems to lack. i could probably help more if you edited a pastebin into your post and you could probably get even more help in the monotype room on ps!.
overall it seems inferior to standard evio core + 3 attackers but i'm sure you could find some viability in this build :] gl!
Did Guts get nerfed? It used to be 2x, if I recall correctly.guts is actually 1.5x and kyub can also abuse LO, mold breaker, insane bulk and a superior movepool. also, you should be comparing this to diggersby who is basically hitting much harder with huge power along with CB or SD and can also abuse priority and better coverage. swellow is just outclassed as a wallbreaker as 83 atk + guts is still pretty underwhelming since it also has to deal with the sr weakness, low bulk, burn chip, no item and pretty shitty coverage and brave bird recoil (which means it's getting like 1 maybe 2 kills per game). also yeah pz is alright but imo normalium z is a bit gimmicky because it already has to eat a hit to setup and is still too slow to outpace a good number of scarfers. if i were you i'd honestly either make it HO or maybe try defogless normal which again is probably inferior to standard normal.
Yeah… kinda unfortunate for the metallic dino.When using a Mega Evolution that changes its typing, the Mega Evolution must retain the original typing of the team. In practice, this means is that you can use Mega Gyarados on a Mono-Water team, but you may not use it on a Mono-Flying team (because Mega Gyarados isn't a Flying type) or a Mono-Dark team (because regular Gyarados isn't a Dark type. Similarly, Mega Aggron can only be used on Mono-Steel, despite its base form being allowed on Mono-Rock teams.
Actually, I have a Trick Room Steel team I really like, and it used to feature Mega Steelix as a defensive wall and TR sweeper. I've been wondering for a while now if Mega Aggron would fit well in that slot due to somewhat better Attack (I think), more defensive utility with Filter, and a lack of a Water weakness which would make three water weaknesses on the team (the other two being Excadrill and Heatran) while still having TR-capable speed.Aggronite has been released.
However, I'm not sure how useful it would be. Steel has many better options to use (unless you wanna try Steel stall or something?), while Rock, which may actually have benefited from it, can't use it in this metagame due to the new rule…
Yeah… kinda unfortunate for the metallic dino.
Let me just say something about its bulk: it has none. Those 110 defenses may surprise you, but 50 hp leaves it piss poor to anything that isn't a resisted hit. Even something like an Energy Ball from Chandelure will leave it with almost no HP or knock it out completley. Due to this, it isn't switching in on anything besides like, Mega Sableye and Skarmory not carrying Iron head.While I did not think Magearna was broken, the bright side of this ban is that the metagame is now much more diverse. Fairy gained a very very solid Pokemon, however. One that shouldn't be overlooked.
With 160/160 offenses and a crucial Speed tier, Mega Diancie's sweeping potential is no joke. It also has access to Magic Bounce, shielding not only itself but the entire team from status moves. Furthermore, Mega Diancie gets access to a wide variety of moves, including Diamond Storm which has a 50% chance to double your defense. Not only this, but it gains access to Ground coverage which limits its counters. It has access to perfect team support on Fairy, with Tapu Bulu being able to take on the Water, Ground, and Grass moves that trouble Diancie. Lastly, Mega Diancie has access to Calm Mind and/or Rock Polish for setup, as well as Stealth Rock, which benefits Fairy heavily as it's now Fairy's new best offensive hazard setter. It's overall coverage aids Fairy heavily in the Fire matchup, yet also provides a consistent wincon in the Flying matchup as well. On an unrelated note, Mega Diancie would have appreciated Magearna as a partner heavily forming a solid offensive core that can pressure a large amount of types, but Magearna's recent ban prevents that. Mega Diancie does have its very clear flaws, though, and it becomes evident that there's a lot of things holding it back from truly becoming a dominant force in the metagame.
Mega Diancie boasts one of the worst defensive typings in the game in Rock and Fairy, giving it a crippling 4x weakness to the common Steel, as well as weaknesses to Ground, Water, and Grass, the former two being very common moves. This, combined with its average at best bulk and its inability to outpace Choice Scarf users leaves it very weak to revenge killers. It's offensive coverage is fairly lackluster as well, as Rock/Fairy is a pretty bad typing. It's safe to say nearly every type has an a quality check for Mega Diancie via faster Choice Scarf users that can exploit its numerous weaknesses, mainly Steel.
That's just the impact I can see Mega Diancie having in the metagame. Let me know what you think.