M&M Mix and Mega

So I did some testing with Mimikyu along with GL Volkner and found a couple things:

- You can still mega evolve it before Disguise gets busted and benefit from stat boosts, typing changes but not the ability.
- When Mimikyu's Disguise busts, it changes form and loses all stat boosts and typing changes.
- After Mimikyu's Disguise busts pre-evolution it will never benefit from Mega Evolving, reverting back to Original Mimikyu immediately.

urkerab is all of this intended and irreversible for at least MnM?

This pretty much means that Mimikyu is now unable to use a Mega Stone.
Sad to see it go...

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-670188450
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-670191617

 
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A recent update to PS has changed the way abilities are handled. Previously, only Multitype and Stance Change were protected from being overwritten, but that list now includes Battle Bond, Comatose, Disguise, Power Construct, RKS System, Schooling and Shields Down. This means that if you use Greninja-Ash, Komala, Mimikyu, Minior, Silvally or Wishiwashi then you will not gain the Mega ability any more.
Apparently the effect of this change on Mix and Mega was unintentional, so it may yet get patched.
 
Meet Trolleon

Trolleon (Umbreon) (M) @ Sablenite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Moonlight
- Protect



this is the most unexpected wall in the game, and can tank a lot of super effective hits, as long as they aren't from tapu lele


of course, Dusk Blade

Dusk Blade (Kartana) @ Diancite
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade
- Night Slash
- Smart Strike


Its like loppunite kartana, but faster. all u need to know
 
Meet Trolleon

Trolleon (Umbreon) (M) @ Sablenite
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Foul Play
- Toxic
- Moonlight
- Protect



this is the most unexpected wall in the game, and can tank a lot of super effective hits, as long as they aren't from tapu lele
Tapu Lele can't even hit it with those Psychic moves cause Umbreon is part dark. Also don't use Umbreon. It's bad.
of course, Dusk Blade

Dusk Blade (Kartana) @ Diancite
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sacred Sword
- Leaf Blade
- Night Slash
- Smart Strike


Its like loppunite kartana, but faster. all u need to know
No it's not. Lopunnite Kartana gets Grass/Fighting as a type which is much better offensively than Grass/Steel.
 
Tapu Lele can't even hit it with those Psychic moves cause Umbreon is part dark. Also don't use Umbreon. It's bad.

No it's not. Lopunnite Kartana gets Grass/Fighting as a type which is much better offensively than Grass/Steel.
I agree that the sets werent the best, but somehow this post is worse. Tapu lele is part fairy type, and can easily KO umbron with super effective moonblasts. On kartana, meanwhile, the Grass / Fighting typeing is far inferiori as it can be readily revenge by -atespeed. Kartana runs lopunnite for a slightly better matchup against defensive teams with skarm / tina or, more commonly, because metagrossite is already in use elsewhere; it's solidly worse than the normal metagrossite Kartana set. Diancite is also at least as good as lopunnite, so recommending lopunnite over it is just really off considering their different roles.
 

Fardin

Tournament Banned
about this goth issue. i dont feel like the meta has even preped for it due to goth being so uncommon. When qt first built his team, goth looked neat, but after people stopped trying it out, it just died out. The only thing i see from the replays is some teams that didnt prep for it at all. It looked similar to how goth preformed in AG before people took notice of it. After goth has become more common in ag, it was still fairly relevant, but not as OP as before.... MnM is still in just its first phase, thats, why goth might look broke to some(not to me tho). dont, wanna get too much into it, since alot of good players already mentioned its flaws in the main suspect thread...so yh
also before i post this. this is just MY OWN OPINION. i felt like i had to say it just in case
 
I agree that the sets werent the best, but somehow this post is worse. Tapu lele is part fairy type, and can easily KO umbron with super effective moonblasts.
I know that. It's not like i'm stupid. I was just telling him that Tapu Lele can't hit it with the Psychic moves which is what I assumed he meant.
On kartana, meanwhile, the Grass / Fighting typeing is far inferiori as it can be readily revenge by -atespeed. Kartana runs lopunnite for a slightly better matchup against defensive teams with skarm / tina or, more commonly, because metagrossite is already in use elsewhere; it's solidly worse than the normal metagrossite Kartana set. Diancite is also at least as good as lopunnite, so recommending lopunnite over it is just really off considering their different roles.
I was also commenting there. All I was saying is that it's not the same thing. I wasn't even recommending it.
 
Not sure if anybody thought of this, but here's a set a like.
Infernape @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
It's not amazing, but it's fun!
 
Not sure if anybody thought of this, but here's a set a like.
Infernape @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Ice]
It's not amazing, but it's fun!
Well you'd be right about it not being amazing. Doubt it'd be THAT fun though. There are other better users of Pidgeotite like Deoxys-Speed or Keldeo, which do the job of being a special attacker but better, as in Deoxys-Speed getting the niche of Nasty Plot + Zap Cannon as well as being a speedy boosting hard-hitter in general, Keldeo being one of, if not the only, special attacker that can break through the premier special wall of the tier, Sablenite Blissey.
 
magearna will have plenty of alternative checks and counters with the considerable number of mons able to threaten with both ground and fire moves (a good half of ubers, heatran, mew, volcanion, etc.), several of which can feasibly run a red orb
 
None of those really counter Magearna tho, as it has Tbolt for Volc, Aura Sphere for Heatran, it does ass loads to mew with the cm split set, and what ubers? If Magearna has some calm minds up it's virtually unstoppable, and with the right team to support it it decimates. Magearna is easily one of the best mons out there as evidenced by the viability rankings. It's also worth mentioning Heatran and Volc have almost no place in the meta, being very niche or only used rarely(Highlord used Heatran once you might so Volc on TR) or on the lower ladder.
 
where ubers are concerned, even disregarding how 90% of the tier has flamethrower/fire blast and earth power, solgaleo and necrozma-dusk both have sunsteel and eq off good attack stats (solga has flare blitz as well) and can sponge loads of damage with assvest, reshiram goes straight through venusaurite with turboblaze, blaziken has eq and blitz with no stone restriction, ho-oh has sacred fire/eq with regen and its huge spdef, and there's plenty of stupid stuff you can send in to scare mag out

of course if we're assuming it doesn't have multiple calm minds up already just send in something stupid like red orb blacephalon and murder it
 
The sample teams are outdated but not for the reason you mentioned specifically tho that's true, I believe they're trying to update it soon iirc, just be patient and use Quantum's Xerneas Ghostceus hyper offense team from two years ago lol.
 
I have a really good set for Xurkitree:
Xurkitree @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Zap Cannon
- Hypnosis
- Tail Glow
- Hidden Power [Ice]
 
Please ban the combination of Sing/Hypnosis/Spore and Prankster/No Guard. If we're going to use complex bans for rarely-seen and impractical "Endless battles" setups, we should have simple bans for this broken combination of moves and mega stones.

Do you enjoy having fast pokemon like Alolan Raichu and Xurkitree put your Pokemon to sleep, forcing a switch or forcing you to keep that sleeping Pokemon in, hoping it wakes up BEFORE it's taken out and the sleep-abuser gets to put another of your pokemon to sleep? Then go play Balanced Hackmons and have your Deoxys-S use Mold Breaker and Spore, because that garbage ruined that meta and shouldn't ruin this one.

Do you think replacing a Mega Stone or Orb with a single-use Lum Berry in this meta "Just in case" you run into a sleep abuser is a good idea that TOTALLY doesn't prove sleep is antithetical to what this meta's supposed to be at all? No comment.

Inb4 "Spore is balanced because it doesn't works on Grass types, just use six of those".
 
Please ban the combination of Sing/Hypnosis/Spore and Prankster/No Guard. If we're going to use complex bans for rarely-seen and impractical "Endless battles" setups, we should have simple bans for this broken combination of moves and mega stones.

Do you enjoy having fast pokemon like Alolan Raichu and Xurkitree put your Pokemon to sleep, forcing a switch or forcing you to keep that sleeping Pokemon in, hoping it wakes up BEFORE it's taken out and the sleep-abuser gets to put another of your pokemon to sleep? Then go play Balanced Hackmons and have your Deoxys-S use Mold Breaker and Spore, because that garbage ruined that meta and shouldn't ruin this one.

Do you think replacing a Mega Stone or Orb with a single-use Lum Berry in this meta "Just in case" you run into a sleep abuser is a good idea that TOTALLY doesn't prove sleep is antithetical to what this meta's supposed to be at all? No comment.

Inb4 "Spore is balanced because it doesn't works on Grass types, just use six of those".
Just want to point out a few things:

1) Magic Bounce exists. Yes, there is an easy counterplay method that you can use, and there are three stones in particular that will help you deal with it. Most of these Pokemon are countered by a certain bouncer - the only one that isn't is Pidgeotite Xurkitree, which is quite easy to revenge kill anyway, due to the amount of priority in the metagame that can completely shut down Xurkitree - not to mention that you need webs to make Xurkitree not awkwardly slow in comparison to the rest of the tier. Breloom is something that's come up for a bit on low ladder - most of the time it only makes a small dent in teams, if any, thanks to Sablenite users like Magearna and Zapdos, which are able to bounce back Spore and either pivot out into a priority user with Volt Switch or take the threat out with Fleur Cannon and Heat Wave respectively. (the three stones that give Magic Bounce are Sablenite, Diancite and Absolite, two of three are amazing stones in the metagame already)

2) Sleep Clause is a thing in Mix and Mega, and the concept of 'sleep-sacking' has always been around for a while. Yes, it's annoying, but it is in no way broken, as sleeping said Pokemon may do nothing to the match-up of the game at all. One Pokemon might be disabled for the entirety of the match, but then again this is in no way broken as it can be used for fodder late game.

3) Lum Berries don't automatically win against Sleep, either. It's not exactly the best tactic against it when you have the options mentioned above that will save you far more time and team space when facing sleepers like Xurkitree and Breloom.
 
Ummm.... I don't use samples but, aren't the sample teams really outdated? I mean they still have a team with gothitelle on it smh.
Well Shadow Tag literally just got banned. Also I've asked them to remove all Shadow Tag related things regarding the VR and Sample Teams.

Please ban the combination of Sing/Hypnosis/Spore and Prankster/No Guard. If we're going to use complex bans for rarely-seen and impractical "Endless battles" setups, we should have simple bans for this broken combination of moves and mega stones.

Do you enjoy having fast pokemon like Alolan Raichu and Xurkitree put your Pokemon to sleep, forcing a switch or forcing you to keep that sleeping Pokemon in, hoping it wakes up BEFORE it's taken out and the sleep-abuser gets to put another of your pokemon to sleep? Then go play Balanced Hackmons and have your Deoxys-S use Mold Breaker and Spore, because that garbage ruined that meta and shouldn't ruin this one.

Do you think replacing a Mega Stone or Orb with a single-use Lum Berry in this meta "Just in case" you run into a sleep abuser is a good idea that TOTALLY doesn't prove sleep is antithetical to what this meta's supposed to be at all? No comment.

Inb4 "Spore is balanced because it doesn't works on Grass types, just use six of those".
Chazm already explained most of this in detail, but in short, Sleep Clause means that no more than one Pokemon in the party can be put to sleep, and since Lum Berry is a one-time use item it is definitely not worth it to sacrifice a stone slot for it. Honestly either just have a Magic Bounce stone on a mon (a good Spore lure from say Breloom is probably Tapu Lele (Diancite) as Focus Punch is 4x resisted) and put the opponent to sleep instead; or just allow a Pokemon that can't check it be put to sleep and then proceed to switch in your check for it. Grass types not named Celebi and Venusaur are pretty much unusable in the tier and you should never resort to those. Nor is there any problem with forcing a switch really, that's a lot of what competitive Pokemon is about in general.
 
Well Shadow Tag literally just got banned. Also I've asked them to remove all Shadow Tag related things regarding the VR and Sample Teams.



Chazm already explained most of this in detail, but in short, Sleep Clause means that no more than one Pokemon in the party can be put to sleep, and since Lum Berry is a one-time use item it is definitely not worth it to sacrifice a stone slot for it. Honestly either just have a Magic Bounce stone on a mon (a good Spore lure from say Breloom is probably Tapu Lele (Diancite) as Focus Punch is 4x resisted) and put the opponent to sleep instead; or just allow a Pokemon that can't check it be put to sleep and then proceed to switch in your check for it. Grass types not named Celebi and Venusaur are pretty much unusable in the tier and you should never resort to those. Nor is there any problem with forcing a switch really, that's a lot of what competitive Pokemon is about in general.
Well... my Xurkitree set can sweep and win 6-0 pretty easily.
Zap Cannon + No Guard should be banned too.
Really, Diancite beats the heck out of Xurkitree.
Sleep Clause means that you can't use a sleep inducing move while the opponent is asleep (ONE SLEEPING OPPONENT AT A TIME).
 
If pro-Sleepers are going to ignore inconvenient parts of my posts, like the part where I addressed the "But this particular counter on one pokemon can counter it so there!" "argument" before it was used, can I do the same to the posts of pro-sleepers? Do I have permission to do the following?

Well I've asked Shadow in detail, in short, sleep, w it H Me.
Yes, I'm sure Magic Guard and Magic Bounce pokemon are immune to sleep. So are pokemon with Insomnia, Vital Spirit, and Comatose. And Pokemon holding Lum Berries can resist sleep once. And dark Pokemon are immune to Hypnosis and normal Pokemon and pokemon with Soundproof are immune to Sing and grass Pokemon are immune to spore, so having some no-guard Alolan-Raichu/Xurkitree force a switch on you and get an easy advantage over you is perfectly fair and balanced, right? One move letting a Pokemon disable one of your Pokemon and force you to let it die and let it disable another one, or force you to switch and let that Pokemon take damage, that's fair where you're from, right? After all, if it's possible for some highly-situational sub-optimal pokemon to counter a broken strategy, it should be allowed to run freely? Good, glad I understand how things work on your planet.

I know how sleep clause works, don't tell yourself I don't. It isn't enough to lessen the disgusting brokenness of sleep spamming, especially not in a meta like this where Prankster Spore and No Guard Sing can be a thing.
 
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