M&M Mix and Mega

Since Ultra Burst is a mid-battle Forme change, could other Pokemon hold Ultranecrozium Z and Ultra Burst too? It didn't work for Ash-Greninja as it was an ability, but you only need to hold Ultranecrozium Z to Ultra Burst. I wonder about how they'd implement the stat boosts though, seeing as both Necrozma formes have their more proficient stat increased less and their less proficient stat increased more.

EDIT: I just saw the previous page, sorry for bringing it up and you can now ignore this post.
 

Offense
Click on the sprites for import

i wanted an ho team around pidgeotite gene which is underrated. deos standard ho lead and magiccoat for webs / taunt users. zygarde cus its good and gives priority. evs are so sub wont break after bliss seismic toss. manaphy and bisharp seemed cool, both 1v1ing bliss and bdoing well vs golis/mag/zap/bliss teams. added pdon cus its good.

 

Offense
Click on the sprites for import

i wanted an ho team around pidgeotite gene which is underrated. deos standard ho lead and magiccoat for webs / taunt users. zygarde cus its good and gives priority. evs are so sub wont break after bliss seismic toss. manaphy and bisharp seemed cool, both 1v1ing bliss and bdoing well vs golis/mag/zap/bliss teams. added pdon cus its good.

This seems like a pretty decent team, but there are a few things I would like to highlight as potential changes to your team:
Groudon-Primal: Stone Edge > Fire Punch, 168 HP/236 Atk/36 SpD/68 Spe > 252 Atk/4 SpD/252 Spe, Adamant Nature
Your current Groudon-Primal spread shows exploitable weaknesses versus Xerneas and Kyogre-Primal (not to mention Golisopod and Naganadel in US/UM) due to its much lower defenses. Both of these Pokemon are able to clean your team, more specifically, Kyogre-Primal can net a 2HKO on every Pokemon and potentially proceed to win with a Substitute up, allowing it to entirely bypass Genesect as a check and fire back an incredibly powerful Origin Pulse, which will happily KO the rest of your team the moment Ice Beam gets through Groudon-Primal. Xerneas can also win if it manages to get a Geomancy up on Manaphy - whilst Zygarde may do considerable damage, it may not be enough to kill (252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Fairy Aura Xerneas: 253-298 (61.5 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 72 HP / 100 SpD Xerneas: 144-169 (35 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO), allowing Xerneas to cleansweep the entire team. Not to mention that Z-Geomancy can also clean, however it can have problems with Genesect, hence making this change will help do better against those two threats. Stone Edge is useful for Zygarde and Ho-oh - Ho-oh in particular being able to deal with the team very well, if a supporting member such as Arceus-Ground defogs hazards. It also helps it take on Tapu Koko, which can 2HKO it with Grass Knot. (252 SpA Tapu Koko Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 167-197 (48.9 - 57.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO)

Manaphy: Psychic > HP Ground
Hidden Power Ground on Manaphy, whilst it might successfully lure in Red Orb users and potentially take them out, it does not benefit Manaphy in any other way as Pokemon such as Toxapex will wall it to oblivion. Whilst it might seem a bit specific, running Psychic for it may help to alleviate Toxapex from becoming a complete wincon - especially after Genesect has been removed.

Zygarde: 192 HP/252 Atk/64 Spe > 188 HP/252 Atk/68 Spe
A small nitpick that allows you to set up four Substitutes instead of three if at full health. c;

Notable problems:
Deoxys-Speed (Pidgeotite): Whilst Bisharp may be able to allieviate this problem, it is no surprise that Deoxys-Speed is a massive problem for this team. Bisharp is risky to switchin due to Focus Blast, and Zygarde, whilst it can 1v1, cannot OHKO Deoxys-Speed with Extreme Speed. (252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Deoxys-Speed: 190-225 (67.6 - 80%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, 252 SpA Deoxys-Speed Psycho Boost vs. 192 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 280-330 (69.1 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)

CM/HP Fire Tapu Lele (Diancite): Diancite Tapu Lele also deals with this team quite well, as CM variants can break through Groudon-Primal and potentially KO Genesect with Focus Blast (+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Genesect: 251-296 (88.6 - 104.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock - if the opponent can get hazards up, you're done). Lucarionite also beats this team if you are running Modest Genesect (in this case, you are).

Overall, the usage of Bisharp helps this team quite considerably as it can deal with other underused threats such as Specs Lunala, however, pressuring Arceus-Ground could be an improvement to work on, as it can defog your hazards away quite happily when the team needs to deal with something like the threats mentioned.

I'll have my thoughts up on the new US/UM changes in a week or so.
 
With Pokebank updated, MnM will receive slight changes that may affect the metagame.
Actually, i can only think of 3 of them so far, so maybe there's something else.

Gengar + Zap Cannon
A new toy for Pidgeotite Gengar.
There's already a sleeping mon but you want to slow down the mon the opponent will switch to? Zap Cannon is there for you.

Ho-Oh + Curse
So Ho-Oh finally gets a setup move, and for both attack and defense.
Also transfered mons come with their hidden ability, so Ho-Oh keeps Regenerator here.


Starmie + Zap Cannon
Starmie never really shined. It already gets Thunder, but Zap Cannon's side effect is the cherry on the cupcake.
With perfectly accurate coverage thanks to Pidgeotite and the help of a STAB Psyshock, Starmie may or may not find a little niche in some teams.

That's all i can think of.
Mons such as Arcanine and Entei also gets Curse, but Entei can't have have it with Espeed, and Arcanine can't have it with Close Combat and Intimidate, so that's not a helpful gain.
A lot of mons also get Zap Cannon, but the only not-mentionned one that looks viable to me is Alakazam, and it has flaws to say the least.
 
There’s something I’ve been wanting to talk about. While this Pokémon is not yet released, we know everything about it: Zeraora.



Zeraora, on paper, seems like a very dangerous Pokemon. It’s already looking like THE best user of Lopunnite, reaching a massive 172 Attack and an even more amazing 173 Speed (placing it at 489). Not only this, but Lopunnite gives Zeraora the Fighting/Electric typing it really wants, and Scrappy makes Close Combat an incredibly spammable STAB move. It also gets Plasma Fists, which blesses Zeraora with a 100 BP Electric STAB move with no drawbacks. While it’s coverage isn’t all that great, it’s STABs alone already hit much of the tier for neutral damage, and Zeraora has many interesting options including Bulk Up, Taunt, and Thunder Wave.

It’s hard to say just how big of an impact this will have once released, but as I said, we already know all of the tools this Pokemon gets. What do you guys think?
 
Well upon editing a pikachu in mnm calc. To fit same stats as lopunnite zeraora , it seems to do some decent things but it is still a degree underwhelming. Hone claws may be a better option if you wanted to abuse iron tail (which it gets) to deal with fairyies in the meta such as fairyceus. It does do a decent amount of a max 46% on a roll to pdon with close combat , (this is max hp pdon , so pdon that isnt running a large amount in hp will probably be 2hkoed). It gets low kick that can be used instead of cc and it has been seen to due the same amount as cc to pdon thought it may not be the best idea overall as though mnm is filled with ubers, it also contains alot of megas , some of the ones weak to fighting not being as heavy. It was also seen through calcs that cc from it pretty much decimates blissey , but it is still on a max roll short of 15% of dmg for a one shot it , it may go down with some prior dmg though , it would have to be brought into a reasonable kill ranger of below 78 as lowest roll was 76.5%. Hone claws or bulk up should turn this roll into an ohko. Sablenite zapdos seems to deal with this mon the best in terms of tanking however , zapdos can do very little back save for toxicing it , as it resists one of zaps stabs and its immune to para so you cant fish for discharge para, it also isn’t particularly frail so it cant take the neutral hits from heat wave (though lucky heat wave burns may catch it)or hp ice that are commonly run on zap and then setup on it or even sub up so even toxicing it will become futile. Of all ates its only weak to pixi , though it is still hit neutrally by the other two and most of the common ate users are still be able to land a decent 2hko on it as checked with zygarde , one of the weaker ones in immediate dmg output does 72% to it on max roll to it with espeed off of pinsirite and in retaliation even without any hp or defense investment plasma fists only does 49.8% on max roll with no boosts. It can attempt to boost on the switch or etc, however zyg can still tank a solid one and go for the 2hko with espeed (tarrows doesnt ohko , however it is a very close 2hko. Honestly there is some things that this mon could use (like ice or fairy coverage), however i do see it at least becoming usable in the meta , though i dont expect it to become a major threat but who knows maybe some other stone on it might prove me wrong like altarianit e, pinsirite or mewtonite x. Or maybe loppunnite may be better on it than i had thought. I would like some more opinions from everyone else on this mons potential in mnm.

Edit: also WOW this is my longest forum post right here lol
 
252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 476-564 (66.6 - 78.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(Sablenite)
252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 212-252 (50 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Sablenite)
252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 127-151 (29.9 - 35.6%) -- 27.1% chance to 3HKO(Sablenite)
0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zeraora: 122-144 (38.4 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO(Lopunnite)
252 Atk Zeraora Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 109-130 (25.9 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO(Slowbronite)
252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 182-216 (54.4 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(Sablenite)
252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 118-139 (30.7 - 36.1%) -- 51.5% chance to 3HKO(Sablenite)
252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 126-148 (32.8 - 38.5%) -- 99.3% chance to 3HKO(Venusaurite)

are any of these calcs helpful?
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
Ash greninja, like all in battle form changes, will revert to the base form before megaing. This is to stay consistant with ingame behavior, as Mega-ing a mega pokemon (such as having an mmy with mmxite) will add the stats to the base form rather than allowing some double mega.
isn't that because mega evolution treats the mega evo's as their base form themselves? (example, soul dew on mega lati@s). that has nothing to do with mnm's mechanics. if anything, it proves the opposite. because this proves nothing more then that mega stones dont actually increase the mons bst when it mega evolves, but rather just turns the mon into a new mon which happens to have a 100 point stat increase. though this is a very obvious fact. and mnm is supposed to throw this logic out the window...so i don't see how this holds any grounds. the fact we have 100% evidence megas are considered base forms, and theres 0% evidence on this behavior, i don't think this is a mechanic that should stay.

if a coder can prove to me that mega evolving forms reverts them to base is true/provide evidence my facts are wrong, id appreciate it. sorry for making a big deal out of something moderately small, but i do enjoy my mechanics mumbo jumbo, and this is a significant aspect of the meta that should be corrected if evidence against the mechanic exists(at least until someone smarter and knows more about usum's coding comes and debunks my thoughts :P).
 
isn't that because mega evolution treats the mega evo's as their base form themselves? (example, soul dew on mega lati@s). that has nothing to do with mnm's mechanics. if anything, it proves the opposite. because this proves nothing more then that mega stones dont actually increase the mons bst when it mega evolves, but rather just turns the mon into a new mon which happens to have a 100 point stat increase. though this is a very obvious fact. and mnm is supposed to throw this logic out the window...so i don't see how this holds any grounds. the fact we have 100% evidence megas are considered base forms, and theres 0% evidence on this behavior, i don't think this is a mechanic that should stay.

if a coder can prove to me that mega evolving forms reverts them to base is true/provide evidence my facts are wrong, id appreciate it. sorry for making a big deal out of something moderately small, but i do enjoy my mechanics mumbo jumbo, and this is a significant aspect of the meta that should be corrected if evidence against the mechanic exists(at least until someone smarter and knows more about usum's coding comes and debunks my thoughts :P).
The code is unimportant here; within the game, its obviously the case that the mega stones trigger a form change rather than a stat buff, demonstrated by the fact that they can be hacked in themself with a consistant statline and that a nonmega mon with hacked stats can mega to a normal mega. However, in Mix and Mega the central conceit is that mega stones are an alreration to the baseline. As such, mix and mega assumes that all mega stone mechanics works under this principle, and attempts to look to see what additional rules are required to fir the mechanics we see ingame.
For this purpose, the base formes being treated as identical to altered formes and the formes reverting before mega will give the exact same affect; that the stats of the base form are used in the calculation of the mega form.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
The code is unimportant here; within the game, its obviously the case that the mega stones trigger a form change rather than a stat buff, demonstrated by the fact that they can be hacked in themself with a consistant statline and that a nonmega mon with hacked stats can mega to a normal mega. However, in Mix and Mega the central conceit is that mega stones are an alreration to the baseline. As such, mix and mega assumes that all mega stone mechanics works under this principle, and attempts to look to see what additional rules are required to fir the mechanics we see ingame.
For this purpose, the base formes being treated as identical to altered formes and the formes reverting before mega will give the exact same affect; that the stats of the base form are used in the calculation of the mega form.
eh. fair enough i guess. its so minor its probably not even worth debating about it. so ill drop that subject.
 
What do you think about Charizardite X Golisopod?
When I was building a TR team today, I thought about Golisopod, which got access to Drill Run in SUMU, and because its most likely moveset of STABs and Drill Run consists of only contact moves, I decided to try out a Tough Claws stone on it. As Charizardite X is the only such stone which does NOT boost speed, I tried it out and it worked surprisingly well. The disadvantage of Charizardite X is that it loses the water type and gains a Dragon type. Luckily it gets Dual Chop, which is a decent Dragon STAB, especially with Tough Claws. The coverage of Bug, Dragon and Ground is actually decent, especially when paired with a Volcanion or PDon which can freely switch into Skarmory or Celesteela, the only mons I can think of which can't be hit at least neutrally.
 
haven't seen much talk about necrozma's new tools thus far
along with photon geyser, tutors have given it an impressive special pool including earth power, heat wave, dragon pulse and hyper voice
it seems to have a lot of potential as a bulky attacker with stones like cameruptite, heracronite, or ampharosite, and could conceivably run loads of other options
 
What do you think about Charizardite X Golisopod?
When I was building a TR team today, I thought about Golisopod, which got access to Drill Run in SUMU, and because its most likely moveset of STABs and Drill Run consists of only contact moves, I decided to try out a Tough Claws stone on it. As Charizardite X is the only such stone which does NOT boost speed, I tried it out and it worked surprisingly well. The disadvantage of Charizardite X is that it loses the water type and gains a Dragon type. Luckily it gets Dual Chop, which is a decent Dragon STAB, especially with Tough Claws. The coverage of Bug, Dragon and Ground is actually decent, especially when paired with a Volcanion or PDon which can freely switch into Skarmory or Celesteela, the only mons I can think of which can't be hit at least neutrally.
There's also Shedinja, Togekiss and Ribombee ;)
Dragon type Goli seems fun and all for a meme team, but the thing is, Blue Orb is way too good on it and if you're not going to play Blue Orb Goli you'll be better not playing Goli at all.
 
Will Ribombee have any new niche in the tier as a fast webs setter? To retain its fairy typing, perhaps it could run Gardevoirite, to set up Sticky Web when there are no Magic Bounce Pokemon present on the field, and provide a better means of using Fairy type STAB moves in Hyper Voice and such. Haven't tried it out myself but definitely looks quite interesting.
 
Will Ribombee have any new niche in the tier as a fast webs setter? To retain its fairy typing, perhaps it could run Gardevoirite, to set up Sticky Web when there are no Magic Bounce Pokemon present on the field, and provide a better means of using Fairy type STAB moves in Hyper Voice and such. Haven't tried it out myself but definitely looks quite interesting.
Actually, Moonblast with the help of something like a Lucarionite hits harder than Gardevoirite Hyper Voice. (it won't hit through subs, but i wouldn't trade power for this)

That being said, Ribombee's damage output is just alright, the opponent probably won't have problem switching into stuff like Sablenite Blissey, that completely walls Ribombee and reflects Sticky Web... unless you go for Skill Swap. I mean, your coverage options are not great anyway, so why not? (i guess you'd trade Bug Buzz for this since U-Turn is a precious scout move)

Then there's Ampharosite and Gyaradosite, but i find that kind of counterproductive on Ribombee since you just want a fast Sticky Web setter with a decent damage output... and both removes Ribombee's Fairy Typing.
Gyaradosite Ribombee could switch on Psychic mons to hit them with Bug Buzz, but since Gyaradosite doesn't increase speed, it's damn slow for an offensive mon that can't wallbreak... unless Quiver Dance. Hey, that's something.
 
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Appearantly ubers is getting a complete overhaul. Knowing that, I wonder how much it will change mnm. Considering people are talking about releasing m.ray from A.G, or keeping m.ray A.G while putting pdon there too. Also banning other things like geo and other stuff that would become broken if pdon was gone.

Edit: species clause too soo... 6 Arecus team every where
 
Hi there
Been a big fan of MnM for quite a while now and one of my favourite mons to use is Metagrossite Mimikyu
And that is why I am here
On quite a few occasions despite after Mega Evolving Mimikyu has been outsped by things that shouldn't outspeed it, like regular Kartana or losing a priority battle against a Pinsirite Cobalion, i.e. what is supposed to be base 136 Speed losing to base 109 and (after ME) base 128
I was just wondering if this is known and being worked on and should I replace Mimikyu for the time being?
 
Hi there
Been a big fan of MnM for quite a while now and one of my favourite mons to use is Metagrossite Mimikyu
And that is why I am here
On quite a few occasions despite after Mega Evolving Mimikyu has been outsped by things that shouldn't outspeed it, like regular Kartana or losing a priority battle against a Pinsirite Cobalion, i.e. what is supposed to be base 136 Speed losing to base 109 and (after ME) base 128
I was just wondering if this is known and being worked on and should I replace Mimikyu for the time being?
Do you have replays or screenshots? Next time you get outsped, check the speed on your mimikyu with the tooltip. Also be on the lokout for paralysis, sticky webs, choice scarf users, and missclick; the game may say that you cancelled shadow claw for shadow sneak, but if you take too long to click the cancel button the turn will have already started. Also be sure that your mimikyu has EVs: if none of the above are issues, then it may well be that your evs have cancellled.
 
A recent update to PS has changed the way abilities are handled. Previously, only Multitype and Stance Change were protected from being overwritten, but that list now includes Battle Bond, Comatose, Disguise, Power Construct, RKS System, Schooling and Shields Down. This means that if you use Greninja-Ash, Komala, Mimikyu, Minior, Silvally or Wishiwashi then you will not gain the Mega ability any more.
 

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