The hard part of the theory here is that every pokemon, even considering how good it is by itself, it is only as viable as it's partners. By that reasoning, most pokemon should already be C tier (like Serperior). I mean, that's where "D" comes, but C pokemon should be for pokemon that are or were good at some point but they just need too much team support. But what about the pokemon that ARE said support? Like Salazzle or Smeargle
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Resource VGC 2018 Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Netherious
- Start date
Kartana really should be moved up to A. Although it's not very popular, it is an amazing sweeper and goes well on Charizard-Y teams, supporting Snorlax-Cresselia that goes along with it with its hard-hitting moves. Running focus sash is effective, or even Grassium Z if you want to get that basically 100% chance of KOing Landorus-T, if no Z-Moves are available, Leaf Blade can deal around 70% to Lando.
Agreed. I went to Portland Regionals and made top cut with Gardevoir. Survived with 3 HP from a double target with strong moves. Really bulky, plus strong offense. Hyper Voice 1KOed Salamence and chunked Lando. Psychic did massive to Landorus as well.
Does anyone think that Cradily should get a ranking? With a Specially Defensive set and Storm Drain, it completely walls Tapu Fini, Milotic, Pelipper, Mega Swampert, Ludicolo, Zapdos, Tapu Koko, Mega Manectric, Suicune, Rotom Wash, Amoonguss, Gastrodon, Politoed and Kingdra, and then proceed to spam Giga Drain / Earth Power / Toxic until it wins. And if you throw in Mirror Coat it can actually surprise KO a lot more things.
I haven't had extensive experience with it, but on paper it does look promising, especially against Rain.
As a completely random niche use, it can tank a hit from Mega Gengar and surprise it with Gastro Acid to negate Shadow Tag and free up switches. In addition, with Leftovers or a pinch berry, Gengar can't even 3HKO Cradily before it dies to Earth Powers. And as we know, Gengar cores come with Tapu Bulu. A slight rearranging of the EVs (60 in Defense) means Tapu Bulu can't OHKO Cradily with 252+ ATK Wood Hammer in Grassy Terrain, and then it dies to Recoil + Sludge Bomb. Or if you're super cute with your movesets, run Poisonium Z to guarantee the OHKO on any Tapu Bulu with Acid Downpour, or guarantee a Z-Gastro Acid on Gengar, bypassing Taunt and Encore.
I may have gone into a bit of a theorymon spiral there. Forgive me.
I haven't had extensive experience with it, but on paper it does look promising, especially against Rain.
As a completely random niche use, it can tank a hit from Mega Gengar and surprise it with Gastro Acid to negate Shadow Tag and free up switches. In addition, with Leftovers or a pinch berry, Gengar can't even 3HKO Cradily before it dies to Earth Powers. And as we know, Gengar cores come with Tapu Bulu. A slight rearranging of the EVs (60 in Defense) means Tapu Bulu can't OHKO Cradily with 252+ ATK Wood Hammer in Grassy Terrain, and then it dies to Recoil + Sludge Bomb. Or if you're super cute with your movesets, run Poisonium Z to guarantee the OHKO on any Tapu Bulu with Acid Downpour, or guarantee a Z-Gastro Acid on Gengar, bypassing Taunt and Encore.
I may have gone into a bit of a theorymon spiral there. Forgive me.
Forgiven, but outclassed by gastrodon or ferrothorn for the most part
I get that.... but looking at the stats Cradily may actually be bulkier than Gastrodon and not have any crippling x4 grass weakness like Gastrodon does. Depends on your team I guess. But I was thinking C rank at best.
C-, perhaps? It seems to fit the description well, being outclassed but having a small niche over gastrodon
Well, yeah, it has a better matchup to grass types. You know, I may try Cradily lol
As far as I know... no, it hasn't.
But there are lots of pokemon that hasn't. Poor Hydreigon
But there are lots of pokemon that hasn't. Poor Hydreigon
Rankings update
Hydreigon: B+ -> C+. I'll keep dropping this if necessary but this should be ok for now
Ferrothorn: A- -> B
Scrafty: A- -> B-. Same goes for this too, it's still good, it's just that incineroar overshadows it a ton now
Araquanid: C+ -> B
Mega Gardevoir: B -> B+
Mega Charizard Y: A+ -> A
Mega Charizard X: B -> B+
Aegislash: A+ -> A
Mega Kangaskhan: A- -> B+
Mega Swampert: B+ -> B
Kingdra: B -> B-
Drifblim: B- -> C+
Hawlucha: B- -> C
Thundurus: B- -> C+
Landorus-T: S -> A+
Gigalith: C+ -> C
Porygon-Z: C -> C-
Xurkitree: C -> C-
Blaziken: C -> C+
Arcanine: C+ -> C
Torkoal: C+ -> C
Blacephalon: B- -> C+
Aerodactyl: C -> C-
Primarina: C- -> C
Muk-A: C+ -> C
Staraptor: UR -> C+
Accelgor: UR -> C+
Smeargle: E -> C+
Rhyperior,
Salazzle,
Sandslash-A,
Mamoswine,
Bisharp,
Garchomp,
Sylveon,
Drampa,
Vanilluxe,
Mega Abomasnow,
Abomasnow all unranked
It needs decent set up to work and a perfect matchup, and with the amount of checks and counters I think it should stay at where it is. I really don't think it should be in the same spot as Mega Blastoise, accelgor and Persian.
Has anyone seen Entei being used? With Intimieroar out there's not much reason to use it at all in my opinion.
I personally use it, but has anyone seen a polylax recently
I would also say that Bisharp still has a niche
Also what about Jellicent, him anybody?
I would also say that Bisharp still has a niche
Also what about Jellicent, him anybody?
I agree with most of the changes but one, a Pokémon that has been unranked and in my last post I would suggest to rise it but I didn't find any time.
That Pokémon is Bisharp. Bisharp has been rising in popularity, some japanese players have used it and also some europeans in NPA, such as Lectro.
Bisharp is a decent Pokémon, maybe it's not A, or even B, but it has a niche. Its niche is in teams that are a little bit weak to Lando-T (specifically Scarf lando). Bisharp is no longer used with LO like in 6th gen; now it's used with Focus Sash, which makes it able to survive an EQ and fire off a Knock Off, which lets Bisharp's partners outspeed Landorus as it no longer has the Scarf.
Bisharp + Fire + Water + Koko is a really good core, so I think that Bisharp should at least be ranked in C-, or even higher, idk.
That Pokémon is Bisharp. Bisharp has been rising in popularity, some japanese players have used it and also some europeans in NPA, such as Lectro.
Bisharp is a decent Pokémon, maybe it's not A, or even B, but it has a niche. Its niche is in teams that are a little bit weak to Lando-T (specifically Scarf lando). Bisharp is no longer used with LO like in 6th gen; now it's used with Focus Sash, which makes it able to survive an EQ and fire off a Knock Off, which lets Bisharp's partners outspeed Landorus as it no longer has the Scarf.
Bisharp + Fire + Water + Koko is a really good core, so I think that Bisharp should at least be ranked in C-, or even higher, idk.
I like the changes to the list overall.
Bisharp has been becoming popular as part of a pair with MBlaziken. I would keep Bisharp ranked in the C ranks somewhere, and add MBlaziken to the list. MBlaziken has benefited from Lando-T's drop in usage much like normal Blaziken, whilst also matching well against Incineroar despite not liking Intimidate and enjoying the resurgance of Porygon2 since Blaziken can actually damage it unlike Cress, giving it use against TR teams with Pory2 as the lone settler.
Bisharp has been becoming popular as part of a pair with MBlaziken. I would keep Bisharp ranked in the C ranks somewhere, and add MBlaziken to the list. MBlaziken has benefited from Lando-T's drop in usage much like normal Blaziken, whilst also matching well against Incineroar despite not liking Intimidate and enjoying the resurgance of Porygon2 since Blaziken can actually damage it unlike Cress, giving it use against TR teams with Pory2 as the lone settler.
I recall that a Garchomp won the Perth Regionals that you entered in. From what I've heard, it was essentially a VGC17 team with Metagrossite slapped on. What are your thoughts on the combo of Arcanine and Garchomp? Asking this not to change Arcanine's ranking, but to see your thoughts about still keeping Garchomp ranked based on its performance in that tournament. I'm not sure if Arcanine + Garchomp was actually more effective than Lando-T + another fire-type. Atm I feel it should remain in C-.
Can't remember an Entei being used all season. Sacred Fire was its big niche, but yeah Intimidate lowers its use. Furthermore Sacred Fire isn't useful in the current format since most of the current metagame-relevant physical attackers are hit super-effectively by Flare Blitz and Low Kick from Inicneroar or can't be burnt at all (Lando-T being the notable exception, but its usage has dropped and Intimidate + Fake Out is safer against it than trying to Scared Fire it) - these include MGross, Kartana, Tapu Bulu, Celesteela, MMawile, Ttar, Snorlax Incineroar, MZard X, Araquanid. Why burn a physical attack when you can KO it? I actually prefer Arcanine since Intimidate is at least guaranteed unlike Sacred Fire's 47.5% chance (factoring accuracy). I think Entei should be UR too.
Jellicent is still on the list in C-, but haven't seen it forever. Could also see in UR since it hates all the Tapu Koko, Zapdos, and Incineroar everywhere, and to a lesser extent Ttar, MZard Y, Mega Gengar, MManetric, Aegislash.
As far as Garchomp winning a Regionals goes..... well I beat that team at that event and I'm not that impressed tbh. Maybe I had got used to Garchomp from VGC17 and it didn't scare me. I don't think that Arcanine brought anything extra to the Garchomp party, and Incineroar would probably be a better partner overall apart from a lack of Fairy resist. I think it was probably the Lele/Megagross core that was the strength of that team, combined with good knowledge of other strategies and how to beat them.
The problem I see with Garchomp is that every set these days is tailored to survive a Tectonic Rage from Garchomp because we've been trained for over a year to design sets that way, and now it can't kill anything and everything is packing Ice Beam/Icy Wind/Ice Punch to deal with Landorus, so Garchomp suffers as a result.
I think it should be rated. Just very low.
The problem I see with Garchomp is that every set these days is tailored to survive a Tectonic Rage from Garchomp because we've been trained for over a year to design sets that way, and now it can't kill anything and everything is packing Ice Beam/Icy Wind/Ice Punch to deal with Landorus, so Garchomp suffers as a result.
I think it should be rated. Just very low.
Wow, that's a lot of drops. I am eagerly waiting for an update on PGL stats.
PoryLax isn't that seen, but P2 is still seen, just not over Cress or Gothitelle. It does some stuff to set itself apart, so it is still a good option.
PoryLax isn't that seen, but P2 is still seen, just not over Cress or Gothitelle. It does some stuff to set itself apart, so it is still a good option.
Terracott is an extremely obvious strategy that any decent player will have no problem countering. Terrakion doesn't have a niche outside of this unfortunately -- fighting types aren't as high in demand as they used to be, and all the fairies hurt its viability.
What does mega blaziken offer that LO blaziken doesn't?
I'll keep bisharp in mind for the next update, I was unaware of its recent popularity.
Mega Blaziken has slightly better bulk and better attack (it's used physical with SD); while being able to outspeed Scarf Lele/Landorus at +1. Blaziken has a mediocre speed tier, so it needs +Spe nature, but Mega Blaziken can run an Adamant nature and be able to outspeed Modest Scarf Lele and Adamant Scarf Landorus at +1, and it can also run a Jolly nature to outspeed the timid/jolly variants. I think it is better than normal Blaziken (which hasn't seen any usage throughout the season). In fact, Mega Blaziken has earned more CP than normal Blaziken.
So with that in mind, is there any reason to run regular blaziken other than it not taking your mega slot?
I know someone who used regular Blaziken at Costa Mesa and at a PC after that, and did pretty well with it. I'd page him to answer this question, but I don't know if he uses Smogon and I can't seem to find him on Twitter.
Anyway, from what I can tell, "not taking up your Mega slot" is the primary reason one would use Blaziken without its Mega Evolution. However, that should at least be significant enough to keep regular Blaziken ranked, given how many much better Mega Evolutions there are (the guy I'm thinking of had Mega Salamence on his team). There's also the fact that regular Blaziken can carry items like Focus Sash (which works pretty well on it given that it isn't taking very many hits).
I'd like to nominate Mega Mence from A to A-. First of all, the most common core around is a mix up between Metagross Lele and Tyranitar/Zapdos/Incineroar/Lando, which severely hampers Mence's viability as, bar Lele outside of tailwind, it either gets cycle intimidated or straight-up walled and beaten down by every one of these mons. The fact that Earth Power Ice Beam Gastro is raising up in usage doesn't help either, as it threatens the standard set outside trick room and, in some cases, even outside it.
Hyper Voice is not as great as it used to be either since the (admittedly, very small) Aerilate nerf; coupled with the fact that almost every 'mon in A resistes it makes it so Salamence has to go for Double-Edge for damage, thusly forcing it to take sometimes significant recoil. The fact that the spider room core is more common now is a mixed bag for it, as it gets severly threatened by p2 while being a menace to Araquanid.
Its match-up against control is pretty lackluster, both against Gengar + double intimidate and ControLax. Celesteela is a bitch too.
I guess it's a decent stronghold against Zard Y though, so there's that.
Thanks for reading. :]
Hyper Voice is not as great as it used to be either since the (admittedly, very small) Aerilate nerf; coupled with the fact that almost every 'mon in A resistes it makes it so Salamence has to go for Double-Edge for damage, thusly forcing it to take sometimes significant recoil. The fact that the spider room core is more common now is a mixed bag for it, as it gets severly threatened by p2 while being a menace to Araquanid.
Its match-up against control is pretty lackluster, both against Gengar + double intimidate and ControLax. Celesteela is a bitch too.
I guess it's a decent stronghold against Zard Y though, so there's that.
Thanks for reading. :]