Metagame Workshop

[AquaticPanic]

Noobmons

You can only use moves and items with a certain amount of usage or below lets say 0.1%

Ou based

thoughts?
is this too similar to another meta?
could this be fun?
to hard to code?
anything look scary?

It's just kinda uncompetiive. Also falls under the "Usually Useless" category of usually reject metas

 

[Rose_Warrior]

how uncompetitive? and it does not change it enough?

 

[AquaticPanic]

how uncompetitive? and it does not change it enough?

Well, you see, there's a reason why these moves and items are barely ever used: They're not good. The meta would force people to run stuff like Mud Sport or Nightmare, which isn't as fun as it is restricting. It does change the meta around a lot, but it doesn't change it to something that would be fun or interesting to play


Now, onto my own Metagame idea:

Aggression Passion

​

Metagame Premisse: Status Moves become offensive and have 80 BP

In a more In-Depth explaination, Status Moves will become Physical or Special (Regular/Shiny) and deal damage worth of 80 BP (Subject to change). Their effects will still activate after dealing damage (See it as a secondary effect that always activates), meaning you can now have things such as a 80 BP Psychic move that raises you Special stats, as well as increased coverage for pretty much every Pokémon.

Relevant Moves

Bug:
Stat Boosting: Quiver Dance, Tail Glow
Utility: String Shot, Sticky Web, Spider Web, Powder
Priority: Powder, Rage Powder

Dark:
Stat Boosting: Hone Claws, Nasty Plot
Utility: Parting Shot, Torment, Fake Tears, Ebargo
Priority: Snatch

Dragon:
Stat Boosting: Dragon Dance

Electric:
Stat Boosting: Charge
Utility: Charge, Magnet Rise, Thunder Wave, Electric Terrain, Eerie Impulse
Priority: Ion Deluge

Fairy:
Utility: Charm, Misty Terrain, Moonlight
Priority: Baby-Doll Eyes

Fighting:
Stat Boosting: Bulk Up
Utility: Mat Block
Priority: Quick Guard

Fire:
Utility: Will-O-Wisp, Sunny Day

Flying:
Utility: Roost, Tailwind, Defog

Ghost:
Stat Boosting: Curse
Utility: Trick-or-Treat, Confuse Ray, Spite

Grass:
Stat Boosting: Cotton Guard
Utility: Leech Seed, Spore, Aromatherapy, Grassy Terrain

Ground:
Utility: Spikes, Shore Up

Ice:
Utility: Haze, Hail, Mist, Aurora Veil

Normal:
Stat Boosting: Accupressure, Swords Dance, Shell Smash, Howl, Sharpen, Stockpile, Work Up, Growth
Utility: Slack Off, Milk Drink, Recover, Soft-Boiled, Wish, Yawn, Teeter Dance, Tearful Look, Substitute, Psych Up, Mean Look, Lock On, Laser Focus, Heal Bell, Glare, Disable, Encore, Block
Priority: Follow Me

Poison:
Stat Boosting: Acid Armor, Coil
Utility: Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Toxic Threat, Venom Drench, Gastro Acid

Psychic:
Stat Boosting: Agility, Amnesia, Calm Mind, Barrier, Cosmic Power, Meditate
Utility: Gravity, Heal Block, Healing Wish,Lunar Dance, Imprison, Light Screen, Reflect, Miracle Eye, Psychic Terrain, Trick Room, Rest
Priority: Ally Switch

Rock:
Stat Boosting: Rock Polish
Utility: Sandstorm, Stealth Rock
Priority: Wide Guard

Steel:
Stat Boosting: Autotomize, Iron Defense, Shift Gear
Utility: Metal Sound

Water:
Stat Boosting: Withdraw
Utility: Aqua Ring, Rain Dance, Soak

Quickbans:
- Protecting moves, as they allow you to both have priority and protect yourself.
- Assault Vest, as it's only drawback is gone, due to Status no longer being a thing.


Possible Bans:
- Taunt, Magic Bounce, Snatch, and other moves and abilities that interact with Status moves may cause coding issues.
- Moves that can call other moves, such as Nature Power and Assist, are potent bans due to using two moves in a turn.
- Sand Attack is uncompetitive. There's no reason not to run it, as it both forces switches and hits Flying-Types


Example Sets:

Araquanid @ Focus Sash
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 SpA
Brave Nature
- Sticky Web
- Aqua Ring
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Fire]

This takes a twist in the AraquaLead set in that it provides healing to the user. Not only as that, but since Magic Coat is entirely useless now, I've swapped it for Toxic.

Zygarde @ Life Orb
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed / Stone Edge / Sandstorm

For a more interesting approach, here's a Zygarde set that takes advantage of set-up moves to deal damge while snowballing out of control. It's newfound coverage in Coil also takes care of Fairies, and Extreme Speed can help it get through the various new priority moves in the meta (Extreme Speed being not even the highest priority anymore)

Venusaur @ Heat Rock
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam / Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Growth

This is one of many possible Weather Sweepers. With a newfound Fire coverage and being able to deal damage while setting up sun, as well as passing though Steels, and to set up quite easly with Growth, Venusaur appreciates the meta.

Of course, these three are just some examples of possible set ideas. Other common things migh be Hazard Stacking, Healing Moves and the many new Priority Moves for some types.

Questions for the comunity:
- Should Sheer Force affect these moves?
- Should the BP for the moves be lower?
- What do I do with the Z-Moves? Should they deal 160 BP Damage, since that's what most 80 BP moves become as a Z-Move? Or should they do the effect and then proceed to use the move, as in a regular play?

 

[edudittA]

Hope this is a new idea, so......

Effective

Metagame Premise: This is an OU-based metagame, where conditional abilities / items / moves with a chance less than 50% have their chance of not activating their secondary effect(effect in case of items) halved. For example, Flamethrower has a 10% chance of burning the opponent, which means a 90% chance of not burning the opponent. In this metagame, however, the chance of Flamethrower not burning is halved to 45%, which means a 55% chance of burning the opponent. Similarly, the ability Flame body has a 30% chance of burning the opponent, which means a 70% chance of not. Again, in this metagame, the chance of not burning reduces to 35%, and so the chance of Flame Body activating increases to 65%. Similarly, Focus Band has a 10% chance of letting the holder survive at 1 HP, and in this metagame, the chance increases to 55%. Abilities / Items / Moves with no conditional secondary effects are exempt from the boost.


Potential bans / threats :

Bans:

• Item Clause
• Abilities ban: Serene Grace
• Items ban: Kings Rock , Razor Fang

Threats:

• Focus Band, since it gives the opponent a 55% chance of surviving at 1 HP.
• Charge Beam, since it gives a 85% chance to raise the user's Special Attack by 1 stage.
• Omniboost moves like Ancient Power, Silver Wind and Ominous Wind.

Questions for the community:

• Do you think we should include 100% chance entities like DynamicPunch, Emergency Exit (which has a 100% chance of activation when at 50% or less HP), and Aguav Berry (which has a 100% chance to restore 50% of HP when at 25% HP or less)??

 

[SadisticMystic]

Does that mean double Protect should have a 2/3 chance of succeeding, and then 5/9 for triple Protect?

You've banned King's Rock, but what about the Stench ability? Skuntank brings Stench Fury Swipes, which is a multi-hit move where each hit gets 55% flinch chance, a 70% chance overall factoring in the miss rate and all the branching possibilities. Garbodor is slower but has the more accurate Rock Blast instead, and that carries a 79% flinch chance if it outspeeds. (Just be thankful nothing gets Stench Beat Up; you'd only have a 0.83% chance of successfully attacking through that combo.)

 

[edudittA]

Does that mean double Protect should have a 2/3 chance of succeeding, and then 5/9 for triple Protect?

You've banned King's Rock, but what about the Stench ability? Skuntank brings Stench Fury Swipes, which is a multi-hit move where each hit gets 55% flinch chance, a 70% chance overall factoring in the miss rate and all the branching possibilities. Garbodor is slower but has the more accurate Rock Blast instead, and that carries a 79% flinch chance if it outspeeds. (Just be thankful nothing gets Stench Beat Up; you'd only have a 0.83% chance of successfully attacking through that combo.)

For starters, do bear in mind that Rock Blast / Fury Swipes can hit anywhere from 2 to 5 turns. And Stench turns a 55% chance of flinching each turn. So, calculating the chance of flinch for the number of hits landed:

• 2 hits - flinch chance = 79.75% (raw calc, not factoring in the missing rates)
• 3 hits - flinch chance = 90.89% (raw calc, not factoring in the missing rates)

..... does look problematic, so I'll probably add it to my threatlist, because the problem is that all Stench users seem too slow except Skuntank. Genuine concern, thanks for voicing that out..

Second Protect failing is not a secondary effect, though it is conditional, so no, Protection mechanics won't be altered in this metagame. And even then, second Protect activation chance (in actual practice) is 50%, which is not less than 50%, so this mechanic won't activate anyway.

 

[Merritt]

For starters, do bear in mind that Rock Blast / Fury Swipes can hit anywhere from 2 to 5 turns. And Stench turns a 55% chance of flinching each turn. So, calculating the chance of flinch for the number of hits landed:

• 2 hits - flinch chance = 79.75%
• 3 hits - flinch chance = 90.89%

..... does look problematic, so I'll probably add it to my threatlist, because the problem is that all Stench users seem too slow except Skuntank. Genuine concern, thanks for voicing that out..

Remember that Garbodor gets Rock Polish, and even with a neutral nature a +2 Garbodor is faster than everything unboosted except Deoxys-S and everything up to and including base 101 speed scarf mons. A jolly nature meanwhile outspeeds everything up to a 115 base speed scarf Pokemon.

Not really looking forward to seeing it be mandatory to run either absolutely nothing that can't OHKO Garbodor, a bunch of Inner Focus Pokemon, or Scarf Greninja.

Meanwhile, Ice Beam and the like have a 55% chance to freeze, and while freeze isn't quite a death sentence it's still almost if not as good as sleep. Even if you consider the unthawing chance as one of the things that's increased, having to deal with a 55% chance virtually every turn to be forced to rely on the 60% chance to unthaw sounds incredibly unpleasant (for those at home it's about a 22% chance that you won't be able to do anything next move after being hit by Ice Beam, 44% if unthawing chance isn't affected).

 

[Deleted User 91486]

Tapu Lele should probably get banned. It is already strong enough in regular OU thanks to Psychic Terrain and 130 SpA base, and in this metagame, it has a pretty high chance of lowering the opponent's SpD with Psychic, allowing it to plough through its usual checks.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

Honestly, I wouldn't play this metagame. It just sounds like a slightly different version of Haxmons to me.

 

[Gojiratar]

Well, you see, there's a reason why these moves and items are barely ever used: They're not good. The meta would force people to run stuff like Mud Sport or Nightmare, which isn't as fun as it is restricting. It does change the meta around a lot, but it doesn't change it to something that would be fun or interesting to play


Now, onto my own Metagame idea:

Aggression Passion

​

Metagame Premisse: Status Moves become offensive and have 80 BP

In a more In-Depth explaination, Status Moves will become Physical or Special (Regular/Shiny) and deal damage worth of 80 BP (Subject to change). Their effects will still activate after dealing damage (See it as a secondary effect that always activates), meaning you can now have things such as a 80 BP Psychic move that raises you Special stats, as well as increased coverage for pretty much every Pokémon.

Relevant Moves

Bug:
Stat Boosting: Quiver Dance, Tail Glow
Utility: String Shot, Sticky Web, Spider Web, Powder
Priority: Powder, Rage Powder

Dark:
Stat Boosting: Hone Claws, Nasty Plot
Utility: Parting Shot, Torment, Fake Tears, Ebargo
Priority: Snatch

Dragon:
Stat Boosting: Dragon Dance

Electric:
Stat Boosting: Charge
Utility: Charge, Magnet Rise, Thunder Wave, Electric Terrain, Eerie Impulse
Priority: Ion Deluge

Fairy:
Utility: Charm, Misty Terrain, Moonlight
Priority: Baby-Doll Eyes

Fighting:
Stat Boosting: Bulk Up
Utility: Mat Block
Priority: Quick Guard

Fire:
Utility: Will-O-Wisp, Sunny Day

Flying:
Utility: Roost, Tailwind, Defog

Ghost:
Stat Boosting: Curse
Utility: Trick-or-Treat, Confuse Ray, Spite

Grass:
Stat Boosting: Cotton Guard
Utility: Leech Seed, Spore, Aromatherapy, Grassy Terrain

Ground:
Utility: Spikes, Shore Up

Ice:
Utility: Haze, Hail, Mist, Aurora Veil

Normal:
Stat Boosting: Accupressure, Swords Dance, Shell Smash, Howl, Sharpen, Stockpile, Work Up, Growth
Utility: Slack Off, Milk Drink, Recover, Soft-Boiled, Wish, Yawn, Teeter Dance, Tearful Look, Substitute, Psych Up, Mean Look, Lock On, Laser Focus, Heal Bell, Glare, Disable, Encore, Block
Priority: Follow Me

Poison:
Stat Boosting: Acid Armor, Coil
Utility: Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Toxic Threat, Venom Drench, Gastro Acid

Psychic:
Stat Boosting: Agility, Amnesia, Calm Mind, Barrier, Cosmic Power, Meditate
Utility: Gravity, Heal Block, Healing Wish,Lunar Dance, Imprison, Light Screen, Reflect, Miracle Eye, Psychic Terrain, Trick Room, Rest
Priority: Ally Switch

Rock:
Stat Boosting: Rock Polish
Utility: Sandstorm, Stealth Rock
Priority: Wide Guard

Steel:
Stat Boosting: Autotomize, Iron Defense, Shift Gear
Utility: Metal Sound

Water:
Stat Boosting: Withdraw
Utility: Aqua Ring, Rain Dance, Soak

Quickbans:
- Protecting moves, as they allow you to both have priority and protect yourself.
- Assault Vest, as it's only drawback is gone, due to Status no longer being a thing.


Possible Bans:
- Taunt, Magic Bounce, Snatch, and other moves and abilities that interact with Status moves may cause coding issues.
- Moves that can call other moves, such as Nature Power and Assist, are potent bans due to using two moves in a turn.
- Sand Attack is uncompetitive. There's no reason not to run it, as it both forces switches and hits Flying-Types


Example Sets:

Araquanid @ Focus Sash
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 SpA
Brave Nature
- Sticky Web
- Aqua Ring
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Fire]

This takes a twist in the AraquaLead set in that it provides healing to the user. Not only as that, but since Magic Coat is entirely useless now, I've swapped it for Toxic.

Zygarde @ Life Orb
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed / Stone Edge / Sandstorm

For a more interesting approach, here's a Zygarde set that takes advantage of set-up moves to deal damge while snowballing out of control. It's newfound coverage in Coil also takes care of Fairies, and Extreme Speed can help it get through the various new priority moves in the meta (Extreme Speed being not even the highest priority anymore)

Venusaur @ Heat Rock
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam / Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Growth

This is one of many possible Weather Sweepers. With a newfound Fire coverage and being able to deal damage while setting up sun, as well as passing though Steels, and to set up quite easly with Growth, Venusaur appreciates the meta.

Of course, these three are just some examples of possible set ideas. Other common things migh be Hazard Stacking, Healing Moves and the many new Priority Moves for some types.

Questions for the comunity:
- Should Sheer Force affect these moves?
- Should the BP for the moves be lower?
- What do I do with the Z-Moves? Should they deal 160 BP Damage, since that's what most 80 BP moves become as a Z-Move? Or should they do the effect and then proceed to use the move, as in a regular play?

I was bored so here're some potential sets:

Magnezone @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt / Thunder Wave / Electric Terrain
- Sunny Day
- Metal Sound
- Volt Switch

Magnezone @ Electrium Z
Ability: Magnet Pull
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Substitute
- Thunderbolt / Thunder Wave / Electric Terrain
- Metal Sound
- Sunny Day
Magnezone really benefits from this meta thanks to stuff like a much better option to Hp Fire on Sunny Day, which is a 80 Bp Fire attack that summons Sun here, Metal Sound for hitting harder to weakened foes and even other Electric STABs like Thunder Wave or Electric Terrain.

Houndoom-Mega @ Houndoomite
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Sunny Day
- Detect / Charm
- Solar Beam
Holy crap, this thing has potential at Agression Passion. With Sunny Day as a now reliable Fire STAB that summons sun and new coverage options on Charm and Detect (don't even ask how), now it should be easier for it to set up and sweep. Talking about weather based sweepers...

Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Ability: Swift Swim
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Rain Dance
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power Electric / Toxic / Agility

Swampert @ Swampertite
Ability: Damp
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rain Dance
- Earthquake
- Toxic / Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock / Superpower
Is not very difficult to guess what these gained...

Greninja @ Focus Sash
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Taunt
- Ice Beam
Good ol' haxard stackin Greninja but also dealing damage at the same time.

Gyarados @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Rain Dance / Toxic / Hail
- Thunder Wave / Earthquake / Substitute
Wow, this is a good one. Gyarados-Mega can benefit like a lot from its new coverage options on 80 BP Toxic, Thunder Wave and Hail, having more interesting STABs on Taunt and Rain Dance and damaging set up moves on DD and Substitute.

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock / Rock Polish / Sandstorm
- Taunt / Hone Claws
- Pursuit
- Earthquake / Fire Punch
Hey look, actually accurate Rock physical attacks! While weaker than Stone Edge, all Stealth Rock, Rock Polish and Sandstorm are more accurate and have more interesting effects than it: Stealth Rock takes advantage from switchs ins/outs setting hazards, Rock Polish boosts Ttar's mediocre speed while dealing damage and Sandstorm cucks other weather setters. It also gets better Dark STABs on Taunt, which fucks up other Status based attacks, and Hone Clwas, which boosts this guy's already ridiculous Attack while dealing damage.

 

[hiei-q]

Well, you see, there's a reason why these moves and items are barely ever used: They're not good. The meta would force people to run stuff like Mud Sport or Nightmare, which isn't as fun as it is restricting. It does change the meta around a lot, but it doesn't change it to something that would be fun or interesting to play


Now, onto my own Metagame idea:

Aggression Passion

​

Metagame Premisse: Status Moves become offensive and have 80 BP

In a more In-Depth explaination, Status Moves will become Physical or Special (Regular/Shiny) and deal damage worth of 80 BP (Subject to change). Their effects will still activate after dealing damage (See it as a secondary effect that always activates), meaning you can now have things such as a 80 BP Psychic move that raises you Special stats, as well as increased coverage for pretty much every Pokémon.

Relevant Moves

Bug:
Stat Boosting: Quiver Dance, Tail Glow
Utility: String Shot, Sticky Web, Spider Web, Powder
Priority: Powder, Rage Powder

Dark:
Stat Boosting: Hone Claws, Nasty Plot
Utility: Parting Shot, Torment, Fake Tears, Ebargo
Priority: Snatch

Dragon:
Stat Boosting: Dragon Dance

Electric:
Stat Boosting: Charge
Utility: Charge, Magnet Rise, Thunder Wave, Electric Terrain, Eerie Impulse
Priority: Ion Deluge

Fairy:
Utility: Charm, Misty Terrain, Moonlight
Priority: Baby-Doll Eyes

Fighting:
Stat Boosting: Bulk Up
Utility: Mat Block
Priority: Quick Guard

Fire:
Utility: Will-O-Wisp, Sunny Day

Flying:
Utility: Roost, Tailwind, Defog

Ghost:
Stat Boosting: Curse
Utility: Trick-or-Treat, Confuse Ray, Spite

Grass:
Stat Boosting: Cotton Guard
Utility: Leech Seed, Spore, Aromatherapy, Grassy Terrain

Ground:
Utility: Spikes, Shore Up

Ice:
Utility: Haze, Hail, Mist, Aurora Veil

Normal:
Stat Boosting: Accupressure, Swords Dance, Shell Smash, Howl, Sharpen, Stockpile, Work Up, Growth
Utility: Slack Off, Milk Drink, Recover, Soft-Boiled, Wish, Yawn, Teeter Dance, Tearful Look, Substitute, Psych Up, Mean Look, Lock On, Laser Focus, Heal Bell, Glare, Disable, Encore, Block
Priority: Follow Me

Poison:
Stat Boosting: Acid Armor, Coil
Utility: Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Toxic Threat, Venom Drench, Gastro Acid

Psychic:
Stat Boosting: Agility, Amnesia, Calm Mind, Barrier, Cosmic Power, Meditate
Utility: Gravity, Heal Block, Healing Wish,Lunar Dance, Imprison, Light Screen, Reflect, Miracle Eye, Psychic Terrain, Trick Room, Rest
Priority: Ally Switch

Rock:
Stat Boosting: Rock Polish
Utility: Sandstorm, Stealth Rock
Priority: Wide Guard

Steel:
Stat Boosting: Autotomize, Iron Defense, Shift Gear
Utility: Metal Sound

Water:
Stat Boosting: Withdraw
Utility: Aqua Ring, Rain Dance, Soak

Quickbans:
- Protecting moves, as they allow you to both have priority and protect yourself.
- Assault Vest, as it's only drawback is gone, due to Status no longer being a thing.


Possible Bans:
- Taunt, Magic Bounce, Snatch, and other moves and abilities that interact with Status moves may cause coding issues.
- Moves that can call other moves, such as Nature Power and Assist, are potent bans due to using two moves in a turn.
- Sand Attack is uncompetitive. There's no reason not to run it, as it both forces switches and hits Flying-Types


Example Sets:

Araquanid @ Focus Sash
Ability: Water Bubble
EVs: 216 HP / 252 Atk / 40 SpA
Brave Nature
- Sticky Web
- Aqua Ring
- Toxic
- Hidden Power [Fire]

This takes a twist in the AraquaLead set in that it provides healing to the user. Not only as that, but since Magic Coat is entirely useless now, I've swapped it for Toxic.

Zygarde @ Life Orb
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Coil
- Dragon Dance
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed / Stone Edge / Sandstorm

For a more interesting approach, here's a Zygarde set that takes advantage of set-up moves to deal damge while snowballing out of control. It's newfound coverage in Coil also takes care of Fairies, and Extreme Speed can help it get through the various new priority moves in the meta (Extreme Speed being not even the highest priority anymore)

Venusaur @ Heat Rock
Ability: Chlorophyll
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sunny Day
- Solar Beam / Synthesis
- Sludge Bomb
- Growth

This is one of many possible Weather Sweepers. With a newfound Fire coverage and being able to deal damage while setting up sun, as well as passing though Steels, and to set up quite easly with Growth, Venusaur appreciates the meta.

Of course, these three are just some examples of possible set ideas. Other common things migh be Hazard Stacking, Healing Moves and the many new Priority Moves for some types.

Questions for the comunity:
- Should Sheer Force affect these moves?
- Should the BP for the moves be lower?
- What do I do with the Z-Moves? Should they deal 160 BP Damage, since that's what most 80 BP moves become as a Z-Move? Or should they do the effect and then proceed to use the move, as in a regular play?

Great idea.
I think sheer force should work on the moves if possible, that also could make lando I quite weak for this meta.

I consider 80 Bp is a bit too much taking into account that is really easy to snowball with sets like nasty plot houndoom posted by goriratar, also that would make most attacks useless or unviable. Is 50 Bp a bit to low? with that low bp at least you can switch into a wall and prevent a 2HKO from a status move while your opponent can be a bit aggressive at the same time, but he will need to add real attacks to his set in order to hit decently hard. Also, Technician should work with that Bp, transforming mons like scizor into powerful utility attackers. Other possibility is to let the 80 Bp but only let target status moves work as attacks, while things like protect or swords dance will work as usual.

I think that Z-moves depend highly on the coding, if the code recognize the move as an attack, then it will transform into a 160 bp attack without secondary effect, otherwise, it will transform into a z-status move that also deals 80 bp of damage (watch out for Z-conversion porygon!).

In addition, i think that if the status move transforms into a secondary effect, then it shoudn't bypass type inmunities, for example, greninja shoudn't be able to land spikes against flying or levitate pokemon or toxic spikes agaist steel types since the attack shoudn't work on them.

Hope this is a new idea, so......

Effective

Metagame Premise: This is an OU-based metagame, where conditional abilities / items / moves with a chance less than 50% have their chance of not activating their secondary effect(effect in case of items) halved. For example, Flamethrower has a 10% chance of burning the opponent, which means a 90% chance of not burning the opponent. In this metagame, however, the chance of Flamethrower not burning is halved to 45%, which means a 55% chance of burning the opponent. Similarly, the ability Flame body has a 30% chance of burning the opponent, which means a 70% chance of not. Again, in this metagame, the chance of not burning reduces to 35%, and so the chance of Flame Body activating increases to 65%. Similarly, Focus Band has a 10% chance of letting the holder survive at 1 HP, and in this metagame, the chance increases to 55%. Abilities / Items / Moves with no conditional secondary effects are exempt from the boost.


Potential bans / threats :

Bans:

• Item Clause
• Abilities ban: Serene Grace
• Items ban: Kings Rock , Razor Fang

Threats:

• Focus Band, since it gives the opponent a 55% chance of surviving at 1 HP.
• Charge Beam, since it gives a 85% chance to raise the user's Special Attack by 1 stage.
• Omniboost moves like Ancient Power, Silver Wind and Ominous Wind.

Questions for the community:

• Do you think we should include 100% chance entities like DynamicPunch, Emergency Exit (which has a 100% chance of activation when at 50% or less HP), and Aguav Berry (which has a 100% chance to restore 50% of HP when at 25% HP or less)??

This is quite similar to ''let every pokemon have serene grace'', and that is a commonly rejected metagame idea. I thought a similar idea that removes the hax effect but i was lazy to post it. Essentially, just let the first move/item/ability (i would restrict it just to moves ) activate their haxed effect (effect that has a chance of happening greater than 0 and lower that 100%) with 100% chance when a pokemon enters the field, and let the rest of the Haxxed effects activate with 0% chance until the pokemon switches out. For example, the first ice beam will have 100% chance to freeze, but you can counter it with scald that has 100% chance to burn and also defrosts. Waterfall has 100% Chance to flinch, ancient power gives you one mayor boost, etc. Also, if a haxxed effect activates, then you shouldnt get critical hits, and the only moves that give you 100% critical hit ratio are moves with high chance for one, or at the very least, moves with no secondary effect, like hydro pump/Draco Meteor Sniper Kingdra.

 

[Berlin Arcanine]

Trapped
Every pokemon that holds a plate can trap each pokemon of the type that the plate would normally boost( for example a jolteon with a splash plate can prevent all water-types from switching out). Pokemon with the abillity Run Away aswell as pokemon who hold a shed shell cannot be trapped.

Rules:
-OU banlist
-OU clauses
-Item Clause( i dont want people running two shed shell mons with regenarator or 2 mons who trap the same type. Variety is king.)

Predictions for the meta:
this meta nerfs balance teams heavily because offensive threats can trap walls and remove them

Questions:
Do you think this meta is fun?
Does this already exist?
Any issues and or suggestions for improvement?
Should there be a limit on how many trappers a team should have?

#DugtrioWouldBeProud

 

[sin(pi)]

Questions:
Do you think this meta is fun?

no

Not to shit on you personally, but trapping is one of the least competitive and least fun aspects of this game, and giving people ways to do it MORE sounds horrendous. Especially since there's no way of telling what's trapping what at Team Preview.

 

[Call of Winter]

Trapped
Every pokemon that holds a plate can trap each pokemon of the type that the plate would normally boost( for example a jolteon with a splash plate can prevent all water-types from switching out). Pokemon with the abillity Run Away aswell as pokemon who hold a shed shell cannot be trapped.

Rules:
-OU banlist
-OU clauses
-Item Clause( i dont want people running two shed shell mons with regenarator or 2 mons who trap the same type. Variety is king.)

Predictions for the meta:
this meta nerfs balance teams heavily because offensive threats can trap walls and remove them

Questions:
Do you think this meta is fun?
Does this already exist?
Any issues and or suggestions for improvement?
Should there be a limit on how many trappers a team should have?

#DugtrioWouldBeProud

Trapping like this seems really bad since it's entirely unpredictable. Perhaps instead it should be that all Pokemon trap Pokemon that share their primary typing. That way it can be predicted and is far more competitive and fair.

 

[chartung17]

Trick, switcheroo and knock off seems really good moves in this meta as they let the holder escape the trap, magnezone seems a bit outclassed by the likes of steel plate heatran but being able to trap 2 types seems neat. Overall, seems a cool meta

Generally metas like this make the relevant items (plates, in this case) impossible to remove, like Z crystals and mega stones are, and I don't see any reason why this particular meta would choose not to do so. Which means trick and switcheroo are not very useful, and knock off is only good for getting rid of shed shell.

 

[Yveltal for PU]

Generally metas like this make the relevant items (plates, in this case) impossible to remove, like Z crystals and mega stones are, and I don't see any reason why this particular meta would choose not to do so. Which means trick and switcheroo are not very useful, and knock off is only good for getting rid of shed shell.

Because if they did that it wouldn’t be any fun Dx

 

[hiei-q]

Trapped
Every pokemon that holds a plate can trap each pokemon of the type that the plate would normally boost( for example a jolteon with a splash plate can prevent all water-types from switching out). Pokemon with the abillity Run Away aswell as pokemon who hold a shed shell cannot be trapped.

Rules:
-OU banlist
-OU clauses
-Item Clause( i dont want people running two shed shell mons with regenarator or 2 mons who trap the same type. Variety is king.)

Predictions for the meta:
this meta nerfs balance teams heavily because offensive threats can trap walls and remove them

Questions:
Do you think this meta is fun?
Does this already exist?
Any issues and or suggestions for improvement?
Should there be a limit on how many trappers a team should have?

#DugtrioWouldBeProud

I would add a countermeassure for being trapped. For example, pomemon holding a water plate should be able to escape against water mons. Pokemon like tapu koko would be extremely good, since he is fast and can pivot out. Also, remember ghost inmunity for being trapped.

 

[Shoopz_Whisper]

Trapped
Every pokemon that holds a plate can trap each pokemon of the type that the plate would normally boost( for example a jolteon with a splash plate can prevent all water-types from switching out). Pokemon with the abillity Run Away aswell as pokemon who hold a shed shell cannot be trapped.

Rules:
-OU banlist
-OU clauses
-Item Clause( i dont want people running two shed shell mons with regenarator or 2 mons who trap the same type. Variety is king.)

Predictions for the meta:
this meta nerfs balance teams heavily because offensive threats can trap walls and remove them

Questions:
Do you think this meta is fun?
Does this already exist?
Any issues and or suggestions for improvement?
Should there be a limit on how many trappers a team should have?

#DugtrioWouldBeProud

Hey look, a pretty good meta but its super broken. Why? Because now you can have any kind of Mag Puller.

Entei

Entei @ Iron Plate
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Bulldoze
- Iron Head

Or even worse, a mag puller AND a good ability.

Blacephalon

Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Knock Off
- Psyshock

Of course though, I love this idea:

I would add a countermeassure for being trapped. For example, pomemon holding a water plate should be able to escape against water mons. Pokemon like tapu koko would be extremely good, since he is fast and can pivot out. Also, remember ghost inmunity for being trapped.

In other words, an Electric mon carrying an Earth plate can escape ground types. Also, make sure the plates override Shadow Tag and Arena Trap. Maybe have a tag on the pokemon based on the plate it's carrying? Like Inheritance or Mix n' Mega?

 

[Berlin Arcanine]

Hey look, a pretty good meta but its super broken. Why? Because now you can have any kind of Mag Puller.

Entei

Entei @ Iron Plate
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Bulldoze
- Iron Head

Or even worse, a mag puller AND a good ability.

Blacephalon

Blacephalon @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Shadow Ball
- Knock Off
- Psyshock

Of course though, I love this idea:


In other words, an Electric mon carrying an Earth plate can escape ground types. Also, make sure the plates override Shadow Tag and Arena Trap. Maybe have a tag on the pokemon based on the plate it's carrying? Like Inheritance or Mix n' Mega?

While i like the idea of using plates to switch out i have already put shed shell as tool to guarantee switching . I'd also like to point out that just like with arena trap that u-turn, baton pass and volt switch allow you to switch out regardless. Thanks for your criticism guys

 

[WMAR]

Entei @ Iron Plate
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Sacred Fire
- Bulldoze
- Iron Head

illegal because you need pressure + adamant, all i see is adamant, also needs to be shiny

 

[anaconja]

Accessorize (previously led in Gen 6 by @EV, @Adrian Marin, and @E4 Flint)
Metagame premise: Holding certain items gives a secondary typing and a net boost of +40 in stat boosts (+50 buff and -10 debuff).

New and improved list of stat boosters

I thought that it would be nicer if there were two items for each type, one for offensive stat boosts and one for defensive stat boosts. That way, the meta is a bit more flexible in its options for both styles of play. I'll use Plates and Memories, unlike Gen 6's use of the other stat-boosting items, so that it's easier to build.

Flame Plate: +25 Attack, -5 Defense, +25 Special Attack, - 5 Special Defense
Fire Memory: -10 Attack, +30 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense

Spooky Plate: +25 Attack, -5 Defense, +25 Special Attack, - 5 Special Defense
Ghost Memory: -10 Attack, +10 Defense, +10 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense

Splash Plate: +20 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense, -10 Speed
Water Memory: -10 Attack, +25 Defense, +25 Special Defense

Stone Plate: +20 Attack, +30 Defense, -10 Speed
Rock Memory: +25 Defense, -10 Special Attack, +25 Special Defense

Zap Plate: -5 Defense, +20 Special Attack, -5 Special Defense, +30 Speed
Electric Memory: -10 Attack, +10 Defense, +10 Special Defense, +30 Speed

Sharp Beak: +20 Attack, -5 Defense, -5 Special Defense, +30 Speed
Flying Memory: +10 Defense, -10 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +30 Speed

Pixie Plate: -10 Attack, +25 Special Attack, +25 Special Defense
Fairy Memory: +25 Defense, +25 Special Defense, -10 Speed

Iron Plate: +25 Attack, +25 Defense, -10 Special Attack
Steel Memory: +25 Defense, +25 Special Defense, -10 Speed

Mind Plate: -10 Defense, +25 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense, +15 Speed
Psychic Memory: -10 Defense, +15 Special Attack, +35 Special Defense

Insect Plate: +25 Attack, +10 Defense, -10 Special Defense, +15 Speed
Bug Memory: +15 Attack, +35 Defense, -10 Special Defense

Silk Scarf: +10 Attack, -10 Defense, +30 Special Attack, +10 Special Defense
Chilan Berry: +10 Attack, -10 Defense, +20 Special Defense, +20 Speed

Earth Plate: +30 Attack, +10 Defense, -10 Special Defense
Ground Memory: +10 Attack, +20 Defense, -10 Special Defense, +20 Speed

Meadow Plate: +15 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +15 Special Defense, -10 Speed
Grass Memory: +25 Defense, +25 Special Defense, -10 Speed

Toxic Plate: +20 Attack, +15 Defense, +15 Special Defense, -10 Speed
Poison Memory: +25 Defense, +25 Special Defense, -10 Speed

Draco Plate: +20 Attack, -5 Defense, +20 Special Attack, -5 Special Defense, +10 Speed
Dragon Memory: -5 Attack, +20 Attack, -5 Special Attack, +20 Attack, +10 Speed

Icicle Plate: +20 Attack, -5 Defense, +20 Special Attack, -5 Special Defense, +10 Speed
Ice Memory: -5 Attack, +20 Attack, -5 Special Attack, +20 Attack, +10 Speed

Dread Plate: -10 Defense, +30 Special Attack, +15 Special Defense, +5 Speed
Dark Memory: -10 Defense, +20 Special Attack, +30 Special Defense

Fist Plate: +30 Attack, +15 Defense, -10 Special Defense, +5 Speed
Fighting Memory: +20 Attack, +30 Defense, -10 Special Defense

Potential bans: Shedinja, Kyurem-Black, Kartana
Potential threats:

Clefable @ Steel Memory
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Heal Bell
- Moonblast
New Stats: 95/70/98/95/115/50
Steel/Fairy is an amazing typing, and combined with Unaware, makes it extremely hard to break without super-effective moves.

Porygon-Z @ Mind Plate
Ability: Adaptability
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psyshock
- Tri Attack
- Shadow Ball / Agility
- Nasty Plot
New Stats: 85/80/60/160/85/105
Gaining an extra typing is a great boon for Porygon-Z, as it can now threaten special walls such as Blissey with its STAB, Adaptability-boosted Psyshock.

Mimikyu @ Fist Plate
Ability: Disguise
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Claw
- Drain Punch
- Shadow Sneak
- Swords Dance
New Stats: 55/120/95/50/95/101
Mimikyu is currently looked down on due to its lack of initial power and awkward Speed stat, but now with unresisted STAB, improved Attack, and the ability to outspeed base 100, it becomes a frightening sweeper.

Questions for the community:

• Is this too similar to Camomons and Mix and Mega, or the other million plate-based metas before this?
• On ROM, you are also allowed to sketch one move of the typing you gain. Is this a good idea, or is it too overpowered? (see: V-create anything)
• Would a certain playstyle dominate the meta?

edit: clicking x because it's a pet mod already oof

 

[Serperior48]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/reliablemons.3515558/

Reliablemons is basically Reverse Camomons. The first one (or two) moves change to become your type.

So you get stuff like Fighting-Type Facade Conkeldurr (STAB x Status x Guts x 70)=1.5 x 2 x 1.5 x 70=315 BP move coming off of 140 atk.

Pokemon can now abuse Return, Knock Off, Pursuit (sry not Fairies). No longer does Magearna need to worry about pivoting around when it can use a Steel Type Volt Switch (if in first slot). Lando and use Ground-Type Knock Off and Uturn to pivot out with STAB Flying.

Can we bring back Reliablemons for Gen 7?

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/reliablemons.3515558/

Reliablemons is basically Reverse Camomons. The first one (or two) moves change to become your type.

So you get stuff like Fighting-Type Facade Conkeldurr (STAB x Status x Guts x 70)=1.5 x 2 x 1.5 x 70=315 BP move coming off of 140 atk.

Pokemon can now abuse Return, Knock Off, Pursuit (sry not Fairies). No longer does Magearna need to worry about pivoting around when it can use a Steel Type Volt Switch (if in first slot). Lando and use Ground-Type Knock Off and Uturn to pivot out with STAB Flying.

Can we bring back Reliablemons for Gen 7?

I would be up for bringing it back, it was a fun meta. Would Z moves convert to their new type or not? Some movesets I thought of:

Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Return
- Volt Switch
- Defog

Electric Brave Bird baby! Combined with Electric Surge, this thing will hit like a truck. Fairy Return is pretty cool as well, giving you a STAB nothing's immune to. Volt Switch lets you grab momentum. Defog is mostly filler, but you could also use Nature's Madness as well.

Kartana @ Fightinium Z
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Return
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword

Holy shit is this broken or what? Steel Return lets it break through stuff it couldn't before, like Mega Venusaur and Tangrowth. Grass Knock Off is pretty nice as well. Sacred Sword hits opposing Steel types.

Aerodactyl-Mega @ Aerodactylite
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Double-Edge
- Return
- Earthquake
- Pursuit

Twin Tough Claws boosted STABs baby. Rock Double Edge will murder anything not resisting it, while Flying Return hits Fighting types hard. Earthquake for EdgeQuake. Last slot is pretty much filler, with Pursuit used to catch fleeing stuff (also gets a Tough Claws boost).

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

Suicide Lead Landorus-T, now with Flying type STAB Explosion. Chosen over Ground Explosion as nothing's immune to Flying and it already has a strong Ground STAB.

Terrakion @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Quick Attack
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat

Return fixes the issue of Stone Miss, while Quick Attack gives Terrakion Fighting priority to snipe Greninja and Kartana.

In general, physical attackers get a lot from this meta as they can retype Return to give themselves a drawback free STAB.

 

[Gojiratar]

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/reliablemons.3515558/

Reliablemons is basically Reverse Camomons. The first one (or two) moves change to become your type.

So you get stuff like Fighting-Type Facade Conkeldurr (STAB x Status x Guts x 70)=1.5 x 2 x 1.5 x 70=315 BP move coming off of 140 atk.

Pokemon can now abuse Return, Knock Off, Pursuit (sry not Fairies). No longer does Magearna need to worry about pivoting around when it can use a Steel Type Volt Switch (if in first slot). Lando and use Ground-Type Knock Off and Uturn to pivot out with STAB Flying.

Can we bring back Reliablemons for Gen 7?

Guess who's bored again?

Tapu Bulu @ Choice Band
Ability: Grassy Terrain
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Wood Hammer / Horn Leech
- Return / Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt / Horn Leech

Tapu Bulu @ Assault Vest
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 56 Atk / 60 SpD / 144 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Horn Leech / Wood Hammer
- Return
- Superpower
- Nature's Madness / Stone Edge
Look at that, an actual Fairy STAB :D! Now Bulu is gonna be able to break past those pesky Grass, Dragon an Flying-types without using weird ass coverage options.

Tyranitar @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Double Edge
- Return
- Pursuit
- Earthquake / Fire Punch
Not very difficult to see what it gained...

Mawile @ Mawilite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 216 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch / Return
- Return / Sucker Punch
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off / Thunder Punch
Oh god, this one is scary. Not only it now gets reliable Fairy and Steel STABs, but it alo gets STAB priority of the type it wants on Sucker Punch.

 

[Whitephoenixace]

to bring it back for gen 7 it means someone needs to submit it and either lead it themselves or get a council. Honestly I would love for it to come to this gen , I already play camomons a lot as is