Korski
Distilled, 80 proof
Hello CAP it’s been a while. I’ve been lurking in these threads and reading up on the process so far and wanted to add my thoughts to this discussion.
First off, wow it’s tough to put together an argument for coordinating moves with abilities that doesn’t mention any moves by name. I can see in many posts that the more substantive debating is going on on Discord, so forgive me if I’ve missed or overlooked any details that are presumed but banned from this thread.
Now, for the actual commentary, mostly having to do with CAP 25f and what I think is the most pro-concept ability being considered for any of these starters: Sheer Force. I think the enthusiasm for this ability is a little lukewarm because it is an “obvious” choice based on the concept and the offensive direction of this Poke (i.e. a boring choice), or that it’s uncreative because Gamefreak already has a Fire/Groundmon with Sheer Force. These are fair criticisms, but I think in terms of the specific aims of this Project, the good vastly outweighs the bad.
The ability Sheer Force has a demonstrably competitive benefit that is only triggered by a specific subset of moves used by the Pokemon with the ability; we have complete control over which of these moves this Poke has access to, as well as full control over how powerful to make them (this is essentially a rewording of the concept itself). We have a clear offensive framework established that exactly matches the benefits of this ability (especially Type-wise). We have guidance on balancing the power of this ability from established examples like Landorus-I (overpowered), Mega Camerupt/Druddigon/most others (underpowered), and Nidoking/Darmanitan (situationally powerful but ultimately not OU-caliber) when it comes to stats and movepool. We have stat limitations that threaten the viability of each of these starters in a BST-bloated metagame, and this ability helps alleviate that pressure in a pro-concept way, a major bonus over Mold Breaker. No other abilities can check all these necessary boxes imo, which I think ought to be acknowledged.
CAP 25f’s non-Sheer Force attacks like Earthquake and Hidden Power will be weaker with non-monstrous raw attacking stats, but I don’t find that to be a dealbreaker. If anything, even these limitations are pro-concept as they focus the CAP’s power around its use of ability-boosted moves. I personally like the idea of balancing physical vs. special sets by (for example) giving the Poke useful coverage types exclusively on the physical end to compensate for its weaker STABs (Flare Blitz is optional). In this mixed attacker scenario, an Earth Power/Fire Blast set with limited coverage (possibly just Hidden Power and/or anti-Clefable coverage) would be a strong AoA or 3-attacks main set to give the physical sets more surprise value and give the CAP a decent repertoire. Most important, though, is the fact that choosing Sheer Force will engage with and focus each of the remaining process steps around a cohesive build.
In other words, 25f’s success will depend on how optimally we choose to coordinate the movepool with the ability, simple as that. The path from Sheer Force to the concept is a straight line, and I think it would be a mistake to pass on it in favor of much more convoluted strategies with dubious competitive merit like Merciless and Sniper (are we seriously considering designing a CAPmon, one that is intended to celebrate the legacy and history of this forum, around one of the game’s most uncompetitive features?). I don’t know what else to say, Sheer Force is an obvious choice for good reason; don’t make this harder than it has to be (that’s what 25w is for lol).
For CAP 25g, I think the only standout options are Speed Boost and Galvanize, although I prefer the former for its strong movepool correlations, which I actually am not allowed to talk about, and for its help in skirting around our self-imposed stat limitations, similar to Sheer Force. As a bonus, 25g gets SE STAB on HazeHawk, which will make every other stat booster in the tier jealous.
Finally for CAP 25w I fear none of the abilities proposed, besides maybe Poison Heal, will be able to give the Poke any real niche, and I think we should maybe be looking at stronger abilities like Simple that can pair with average stats and a handful of key boosting moves. I’m still pondering this one but I think most of the abilities being tossed around so far are exhibiting an overabundance of caution.
First off, wow it’s tough to put together an argument for coordinating moves with abilities that doesn’t mention any moves by name. I can see in many posts that the more substantive debating is going on on Discord, so forgive me if I’ve missed or overlooked any details that are presumed but banned from this thread.
Now, for the actual commentary, mostly having to do with CAP 25f and what I think is the most pro-concept ability being considered for any of these starters: Sheer Force. I think the enthusiasm for this ability is a little lukewarm because it is an “obvious” choice based on the concept and the offensive direction of this Poke (i.e. a boring choice), or that it’s uncreative because Gamefreak already has a Fire/Groundmon with Sheer Force. These are fair criticisms, but I think in terms of the specific aims of this Project, the good vastly outweighs the bad.
The ability Sheer Force has a demonstrably competitive benefit that is only triggered by a specific subset of moves used by the Pokemon with the ability; we have complete control over which of these moves this Poke has access to, as well as full control over how powerful to make them (this is essentially a rewording of the concept itself). We have a clear offensive framework established that exactly matches the benefits of this ability (especially Type-wise). We have guidance on balancing the power of this ability from established examples like Landorus-I (overpowered), Mega Camerupt/Druddigon/most others (underpowered), and Nidoking/Darmanitan (situationally powerful but ultimately not OU-caliber) when it comes to stats and movepool. We have stat limitations that threaten the viability of each of these starters in a BST-bloated metagame, and this ability helps alleviate that pressure in a pro-concept way, a major bonus over Mold Breaker. No other abilities can check all these necessary boxes imo, which I think ought to be acknowledged.
CAP 25f’s non-Sheer Force attacks like Earthquake and Hidden Power will be weaker with non-monstrous raw attacking stats, but I don’t find that to be a dealbreaker. If anything, even these limitations are pro-concept as they focus the CAP’s power around its use of ability-boosted moves. I personally like the idea of balancing physical vs. special sets by (for example) giving the Poke useful coverage types exclusively on the physical end to compensate for its weaker STABs (Flare Blitz is optional). In this mixed attacker scenario, an Earth Power/Fire Blast set with limited coverage (possibly just Hidden Power and/or anti-Clefable coverage) would be a strong AoA or 3-attacks main set to give the physical sets more surprise value and give the CAP a decent repertoire. Most important, though, is the fact that choosing Sheer Force will engage with and focus each of the remaining process steps around a cohesive build.
In other words, 25f’s success will depend on how optimally we choose to coordinate the movepool with the ability, simple as that. The path from Sheer Force to the concept is a straight line, and I think it would be a mistake to pass on it in favor of much more convoluted strategies with dubious competitive merit like Merciless and Sniper (are we seriously considering designing a CAPmon, one that is intended to celebrate the legacy and history of this forum, around one of the game’s most uncompetitive features?). I don’t know what else to say, Sheer Force is an obvious choice for good reason; don’t make this harder than it has to be (that’s what 25w is for lol).
For CAP 25g, I think the only standout options are Speed Boost and Galvanize, although I prefer the former for its strong movepool correlations, which I actually am not allowed to talk about, and for its help in skirting around our self-imposed stat limitations, similar to Sheer Force. As a bonus, 25g gets SE STAB on HazeHawk, which will make every other stat booster in the tier jealous.
Finally for CAP 25w I fear none of the abilities proposed, besides maybe Poison Heal, will be able to give the Poke any real niche, and I think we should maybe be looking at stronger abilities like Simple that can pair with average stats and a handful of key boosting moves. I’m still pondering this one but I think most of the abilities being tossed around so far are exhibiting an overabundance of caution.
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