I'll give my wise (?) final thoughts on 25w and 25f, since I think the end is nigh for this thread:
25w: I agree with Dogfish and really hope
Magic Guard gets slated. Magic Guard DOES have actual direct interaction with Recoil/Crash moves and we can tailor our 'mon to find that crucial, and not optional. Additionally, 25w has the greatest risk of just being flat-out unviable on typing (since it isn't THAT good of a typing and since the meta is bloated with powerful bulky waters already). We really need an A+ ability that solves as many of the following problems as possible (listed in roughly how serious a problem I think they are):
- We need to account for being weak to Rocks (and all other entry hazards); this Rocks weakness makes us a much shakier switch-in than we may otherwise be. This is most key, as it makes us much worse than other bulky waters who aren't Rocks weak, and it isn't really something we can solve anywhere other than in ability.
- We need to account for the fact that many dangerous offensive 'mons in the meta just mash Toxic to destroy their checks, and Status is real bad for us. We can theoretically solve this in movepool or with an item, but we'd be doing so at a huge tempo and opportunity cost so solving it here is nice.
- We need to account for the fact that we have a starter's BST and build, meaning we can't just crash one or both of our offenses down to nothing nor can we max out ALL our defenses and still have room for speed. We're likely to be slow, and that's a factor we should keep in mind and possibly find ways to mitigate. We can solve this in later stages, but I think it should be considered.
- We need to account for the fact that are typing doesn't leave us as a terribly offensively dangerous 'mon; we have limited ability to pressure or retaliate against things especially as a "defensive" 'mon. As a result, we need to have the power to overwhelm, punish, stop, or pressure 'mons that we in theory tank hits from but that can often just set up in our face before killing us and then our team. Specifically we're supposed to switch-in freely on the likes of SD Scizor and Dragon Dance Zygarde, and I am unconvinced we're going to be able to really stop those things on typing alone with a 535 BST unless we give our 'mon some other tools. This is the least pressing concern, both because our switch-in list is not a binding contract and because there are plenty of moves that can handle this for us as well, but it bears keeping in mind.
Of course in doing all of this, we need to also respect our concept, and I wouldn't support a lot of the other things on snake_rattler's list like Magic Bounce and Battle Armor that have extremely tenuous movepool connections and are being used as generically good defensive abilities that are clearly going to ignore their movepool. But since Magic Guard does have both direct interaction (recoil and crashing) and weak but still clear synergy (hazard removal), I strongly support it. Every other ability at the top of snake's list does a good job of answering one of these major problems - Triage and Prankster help us be "fast" and still bulky with our BST, Poison Heal helps protect us from Status, and Corrosion (obliquely) helps us threaten dangerous set-up mons like Scizor and Crucibelle especially (although I'd note that Corrosion has some dangerous implications for our check and counter list in letting us make life hard for Ferrothorn, Naviathan, and Toxapex - all mons we wanted to beat us regardless of set). Magic Guard is important because it is one of the only on-concept ways to deal with our first and most pressing hazard weakness issue and it also can do some things for our secondary problem with being statused to death.
I tend to agree with the rest of snake's analysis for 25w, and am hoping for a slate of
Triage, Prankster, Magic Guard, Corrosion, and Poison Heal. Several other abilities are interesting (especially Water Compaction), but since they don't solve most of our problems I am not interested.
25f: I like all three main proposed abilities. I will say in particular that
Sheer Force is underrated - we do have a starter BST, and shouldn't feel bad about giving ourselves an ability that is "just damage". I don't envy snake_rattler as it is tough to pick one or two more abilities to slate. I will take the time though to say that I find Multiscale is to 25f as Magic Bounce/Regenerator/Battle Armor would be to 25w; it is an ability that in theory has some weak coordination, but that I am sure in practice will not actually work as we intend. Sure, it synergizes with recovery - most abilities do, as not being dead is a powerful bonus to any ability that rewards keeping a thing active. But let's look at Dragonite - a fellow frequently offensive 'mon with a devastating 4x weakness for Multiscale to patch up. Dragonite gets Roost, has way more BST to play with, has a frankly stupid movepool, and has a similarly hard-to-beat offensive typing. And yet in modern meta, Dragonite is UUBL and frequently doesn't bother with the recovery. I personally find the idea of this "buying us one turn to set-up a boosting move" to be suuuuuuper tenuous, and also worry it doesn't do enough if Dragonite isn't seen at all in the meta. We do have an arguably better typing, but I think we need a bit more oomph out of our ability.
I also think the panic over
Merciless,
Sniper, and
No Guard is overstated. As several folks have mentioned - we have a starter BST! We're competing in a meta full of legendaries, UBs, and CAPmons that either have pseudo-legendary BSTs or truly bonkers movepools and abilities. We need to go a little nuts.