That's not currently planned, and probably won't happen. Generally speaking, the Pokemon specific stone unbans aren't something we're looking for more of.Now that this change is live, I have one question. Will the prevos of pokemon with restricted stones be able to use them? For example, will Pidgeotto be able to Pidgeotite? This would be useless except for challenges, which is what I want to do.
Heh heh heh, I actually used that set on my first ever MnM team, except with Dragon Tail instead of Iron Tail. However, I do believe it to be outclassed by lucarionite zygarde, as it hits harder, can still take more hits even with priority coil, and doesn’t get OHKOed by altarianite entei’s extreme speed. Glare can still be used on lucarionite zygarde, as well as coil, and it doesn’t really matter about priority, as it can switch in on something like a chipped magearna, and still glare while it switches out.I had an idea for a set I've never seen contemplated, and I wanted to run it through here, I think it'll be pretty good.
Zygarde @ Banettite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Glare
- Coil
- Thousand Arrows
- Iron Tail
Banettite will give Zygarde a significant Attack boost, as well as small boosts to bulk and speed. In addition, Banettite's Prankster ability will give Zygarde priority on Glare, and while less impacted from it, Coil as well. Glare will make up for Zygarde's low speed, and Coil, beyond boosting physical prowess further, will make up for Iron Tail's low accuracy.
So, viable?
There's a Pokemon in your signature that could patch that, in one form or another anyways.Overall, I feel the core works incredibly well in the current meta, only with certain threats such as Victini, Raikou, and Incinerate Darkrai being able to break through it. Definitely try it out on your balance teams if you haven't already!
All Shuckle get 3ko'd by Seismic Toss. Several setup sweepers are either immune to Toxic by typing, Magic Bounce or by setting up a Substitute. Finally, breaking 20/255/250 isn't monumentally difficult, especially as your set doesn't have HP investment; Lucarionite and Diancite Terrakion immediately come to mind as it has Swords Dance to boost faster that Contrary Smash and doesn't even need to hit super effectively.Click Me
Shuckle- My advice is that you set up with a few Shell Smashes before you mega evolve- this enables Shuckle to have some bulk before it truly stalls. Leave Toxic until you're sure you can use it safely (same with Rest). This set, if used appropriately, is the key to stalling out a whole team. Shuckle is only truly threatened by Aerialate sets and buffed special sweepers with access to Flamethrower.
Carvanha- This set is of my own creation! This set is mainly to get rid of unstoppable sweepers, and is all about killing itself so it can kill others; it's a classic example of a prankster set. Only keep this in for emergencies; it is pitfully useless against Gyaradosite sets and other Dark-types, and is not to be used against stallers.Finally a viable LC Stone user
Pretty much agreed with this one. Zygarde is an utter menace to answer at the moment, but I'll probably say the hardest thing about it to answer is trying to answer it without handing momentum over to one of Zygarde's partners. In particular, I feel that the effectiveness of Lucarionite Zygarde + Cameruptite Magearna is nearly unparalleled by any other combination of two Pokemon in the metagame, and that it is nearly impossible to answer the two in tandem, especially considering the amount of viable coverage options Magearna has at the moment. Doesn't help that both of them are extremely good at abusing Toxic Spikes either. Hazards up alongside this combination simply eats at defensive counterplay extremely efficiently. Doesn't help that its hard to OHKO either Pokemon - certain checks such as Ice Beam Arceus and 0 Atk Primal Groudon simply cannot nab the KO they need on either of them to stop one of the Pokemon from sweeping. I'd already argue that both Pokemon alone are harder to consistently answer than Primal Groudon: one might argue that Mixed SD is incredibly threatening to defensive teams, and I would agree, but offensively, this variant has a lot that can switch in and deter it (mainly Lucarionite Zygarde, but Landorus-Therian can revenge if Sticky Webs are up, too) as well as having a lot of problems with longevity issues and predominantly finding checks to Magearna - an Ice Beam will usually make Eruption useless.This one is honestly kinda borrowed from Chazm but Zygarde is ridiculous right now. With the diminishing popularity of the best Zygarde counter Buzzwole, (particularly aggronite Buzzwole), this guy has found a few new sets like sub outrage to exploit teams that are unprepared for anything other than mono ground coverage Lucarionite Zygarde while also eliminating the previous drawback of running outrage Luc Zyg in that Zyg can set subs and then freely spam outrage without the fear of Fairies coming in and revenging after a sack. To make matters better for the ground snek, Altarianite Zygarde can be very underprepared for currently and is thus a potent threat once again. This is once again, due to the general diminishing popularity of Buzzwole and the newly discovered Sablenite Buzzwole which does a great job checking Lucarionite Zygarde, Kartana and Darkrai, but does a very poor job answering Alt Zyg. It doesn't seem uncommon to see teams with only pokemon such as ice beam supportceus, magearna and manec mew as answers to alt zyg. Manectite mew is the best at checking it out of the three but can still easily be overwhelmed by bulkier variants of Alt Zyg as if Zyg gets in at full and begins stacking dd's it fails to 2hko with ice beam and in turn gets 2hko'd by +1 return. This resurgence of Alt Zyg's viability and continued solidification of the effectiveness of Luc Zyg with added coverage is what makes this pokemon so great right now. Oh yeah, it's also still busted with t-spikes up.
Unfortunately for me, I find it quite the opposite when talking about Terrakion here. Terrakion really doesn't like taking any sort of chip damage from Blissey - it sorta mandates a slow pivot, and versus Blissey, such a thing is effectively impossible, as Blissey can drop its unimportant Speed for 0 IV Sablenite Magearna, the slowest pivot in the current metagame. If it takes any, it starts losing to its pseudo-checks like Aggronite Buzzwole. It isn't the biggest problem for Blissey either. What I find so ridiculously annoying using Blissey is the fact that multiple breakers can often just try to smash through it, usually through the likes of CM Spam or multiple SD boosters such so that Blissey cannot take advantage of its huge bulk and modest support movepool. Mold Breaker is also super annoying - Gyaradosite Toxapex will always be able to force it out and start burning its Heal Bell PP, or start setting Toxic Spikes, which really just wears down stall quite badly. Then there are the steels you just can't dent which will reliably force you out every time: mainly looking at Magearna, but also SD Morning Sun Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. The three most common of those mentioned here: Terrakion, Magearna and Gyaradosite Toxapex all give Blissey extreme trouble and honestly the amount of support you need to reliably beat these three when they are supported is immensely difficult, such so that I wouldn't really consider using it on bulky offense like I would have used to. It's irritating, but if I'm honest? It's extremely irritating to hear me talk about it, but again and again I will mention how stall basically has no answers for an at least decently supported Magearna: even trying to use combinations such as Confide Blissey + Primal Groudon and then having it break them shows how difficult it can be to actually answer this monster of a Pokemon. Even if you try to answer it you will most likely be underprepped for the rest of the metagame. It really is the antidote to Blissey, in my opinion - any other solid breaker, such as mixed SD Don, Primal Kyogre, Zygarde: anything that can pair with it at least decently well will effectively be so difficult to defensively answer for Blissey that you're better off trying to go anti-meta and find other ways of checking it.I know other players in the mnm scene are talking about posting about this, but i'm going to throw some of my thoughts on this as well. I'm not sure what it is right now, maybe this is a regular cycling occurrence that i'm experiencing for the first time due to being somewhat new in the community, but it seems that recently, people were suddenly convinced that Blissey is just too good and unhealthy for the meta. From what i've gathered, the general consensus from the OM community outside of mnm is "Blissey with an additional 50 in both defenses and magic bounce? That's an insanely broken combo and it invalidates half the meta." While I understand where this conclusion is being drawn from on paper, i'm going to speak on what I think are the two most simple reasons why Blissey is currently not only far from broken, it's just plain underwhelming.
The first of these reasons is mnm is currently a highly offensive metagame. The top threats that we know and fear are incredibly potent and it is almost impossible to cover all of them defensively. This forces more offensively oriented teams that either refuse to let the common set up sweepers from finding a chance to set up or to chip the sweeper and then revenge with adequate speed control. Blissey is at a bad place in this department. It's a fat blob that never dies... so the people say... except when something strong starts sding up in front of it, then it runs for its life and thus offers the exact setup window these breakers are looking for and this passivity can prove fatal for Blissey's teammates as a result. The primary threat that enjoys using Blissey as fodder is Terrakion. Terrakion is and always has been an absolute terror in the USUM meta. Defensive answers are scarce and easily smashed through as Lucarionite Terrakion should almost always be carrying taunt to effectively click a strong attack vs the pokemon that is attempting to switch in, taunt it on the recover the following turn, and bingo! Defensive switch is no more. All this to say that Terrakion will break holes in teams if it gets plenty of free switches and the presence of Blissey on a team allows for these free switches particularly if the Terrak player is in tune to when Blissey wishes to come in on a special attacker or such and is willing to aggressively double.
The second reason is Blissey seems to be either stuck trying to do a little too much or is being forced into limiting roles that subtract from its effectiveness in other needed areas. This pokemon has repeatedly tried to adapt to a meta that continues to exploit it and just cannot seem to keep up. The first step of Bliss's nightmares stemmed from the emergence of sub CM Lunala. Before this set became standard, Blissey was thought of as an excellent Lunala check. After all, Lunala is a special attacker so Blissey can just come in, toxic it, and spam recovery. Well with CM, Sub, and Psyshock at its disposal Lunala was suddenly using Blissey as set up fodder instead of the other way around. As this set gained popularity and one too many fat blobs were slaughtered, poor Blissey was forced to start running either psywave/toxic or psywave/confide to properly wall Lunala once more. However, psywave's inconsistent rolls and inability to hit dark types has proven to be an annoyance as well and with the combination of psywave and confide, Blissey is forced to either forgo toxic or heal bell, thus limiting its effectiveness as either a cleric or to spread status. As psywave became more standard for Blissey, Darkrai began running sub nasty plot sometimes even in conjunction with Lunala so that either way, one of those two could use Blissey as fodder.
I've seen Blissey running a few other sets like charm/block and calm mind, but these go even further down the road of ignoring the potential support Blissey offers a team in favor covering threats 1v1 as charm/block has absolutely no room for cleric and is honestly not great as it still struggles to beat SD cleaners that normally enjoy exploiting it like Terrakion, Kartana and pokemon like Landorus-T offensive P-don, and Cobalion pressure this Blissey hard and it can never switch in while they are boosting. Calm mind Blissey is going to be running cm, two coverage options, and recovery. Once again, no room for the common support moves Blissey likes to run to help out the rest of its team and this set still gets destroyed Terrakion, SD P-don, etc.
I could ramble for a while on this but the main point i'm trying to make is that yes, Blissey is fat and annoying. Yes, it can effectively wall a lot of the special (and even physical) meta that doesn't have access to powerful ways of boosting offenses. However, it is very easy to exploit and use as setup fodder and the drawbacks for that weakness are just too great right now. There are too many power breakers for a pokemon like Blissey to excel in the current metagame. Yveltal doesn't mind being walled by Blissey if it can u-turn on the obvious switch and allow free switch ins for Terrakion. If you don't want to lose to a Blissey, do not pack non howl Entei, Supportceus, Yveltal, Lati Pex, Giratina-o, and Kyurem on one team. If you're having trouble with this pokemon, pack powerful breakers that exploit it.
I mean... I suppose I can clarify that if you thought I was implying that bulky Alt Zyg switches in and sets up on Manec mew, but I figured that by saying a "check" that implied that mew would be switching into Zyg and losing by failing to 2hko while Alt Zyg dd's twice and is thus able to muscle past the Mew... +1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Mew: 228-268 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO I was not trying to say Zyg is coming in on Manec Mew and trying to set up in its face.A few nitpicks: 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 240 HP / 212+ Def Mew: 153-180 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Mew doesn't 2HKO back but Zygarde can't 2HKO back either: however, this does mean that on switchin, you cannot beat a full health Zygarde.
Ok, so Arceus-Ground is good, just not with that set. It much prefers a physically defensive set to take minimal damage from all the physical attackers you mentioned plus Primal Groudon. Fire Blast should be replaced with Recover (bro, are you seriously using no recovery Arceus), and Perish Song for Defog, Will o Wisp or Toxic, depending on what you want to beat. The EVs should be something around 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe, with more speed investment if you like.Here is a fun little set I have found very useful recently - I have recently started laddering and there seems to be a lot of stall/setup mons higher up
FUCK STALL (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Perish Song
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Protect
Now not only having Perish Song to force-switch blissey, toxapex, xerneas, or whatever pokemon it needs to go against, it has this.
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 153-181 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 234-276 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 159-187 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 158-188 (44.2 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 222-264 (73.2 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Or, you could switch it up and do more offensive -
FUCK STALL (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song
252 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 404-476 (125 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Terrakion Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 208-245 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
You can ruin stall even better with actual perish trap instead of just forcing switches!ToiriX said:Here is a fun little set I have found very useful recently - I have recently started laddering and there seems to be a lot of stall/setup mons higher up
FUCK STALL (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Perish Song
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Protect
Now not only having Perish Song to force-switch blissey, toxapex, xerneas, or whatever pokemon it needs to go against, it has this.
+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 153-181 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 234-276 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 159-187 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 158-188 (44.2 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 222-264 (73.2 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Or, you could switch it up and do more offensive -
FUCK STALL (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song
252 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 404-476 (125 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Terrakion Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 208-245 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
Groundceus is good with the perish set if your team needs it to take out passive defensive walls, but if you are using groundceus in a more defensive role then it would much prefer a set like this.ZoroWarrior said:Ok, so Arceus-Ground is good, just not with that set. It much prefers a physically defensive set to take minimal damage from all the physical attackers you mentioned plus Primal Groudon. Fire Blast should be replaced with Recover (bro, are you seriously using no recovery Arceus), and Perish Song for Defog, Will o Wisp or Toxic, depending on what you want to beat. The EVs should be something around 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe, with more speed investment if you like.
Yeah, but with very little staller teams arounds nowadays, Seismic Toss isn't currently used that often. Not to say it won't be dangerous, but it's still rarely used. As of the Toxic immunity, Shuckle can have something like Protect replaced with Gastro Acid to immediately bypass Magic Bounce Pokemon. Toxic is just for speeding up the stalling process; it can PP stall with Rest's sleep-inducing ability. As of Terrakion, Shuckle does have the potential to stall it provided it can keep the opponent's attacks weak enough for Shuckle to repeatedly Rest-stall.There's a Pokemon in your signature that could patch that, in one form or another anyways.
All Shuckle get 3ko'd by Seismic Toss. Several setup sweepers are either immune to Toxic by typing, Magic Bounce or by setting up a Substitute. Finally, breaking 20/255/250 isn't monumentally difficult, especially as your set doesn't have HP investment; Lucarionite and Diancite Terrakion immediately come to mind as it has Swords Dance to boost faster that Contrary Smash and doesn't even need to hit super effectively.
As for Carvahna... have you noticed how there are BARELY any Banettite users outside the odd Breloom? 99/100 times you're better off actively checking whatever is attempting to threaten your team, and the 1 time is whenever you run into some abstract shitpost you couldn't have possibly prepared for.
im tired of letting discussions like this go on for as long as they doYeah, but with very little staller teams arounds nowadays, Seismic Toss isn't currently used that often. Not to say it won't be dangerous, but it's still rarely used. As of the Toxic immunity, Shuckle can have something like Protect replaced with Gastro Acid to immediately bypass Magic Bounce Pokemon. Toxic is just for speeding up the stalling process; it can PP stall with Rest's sleep-inducing ability. As of Terrakion, Shuckle does have the potential to stall it provided it can keep the opponent's attacks weak enough for Shuckle to repeatedly Rest-stall.
Also, I forgot to mention that the Carvanha set was purely for fun, and not to be used competitively unless you're going for a meme team or making an LC MnM tournament.
Ok, fine, the Shuckle set is bad. At least you appreciate the fact that Carvanha is a joke Pokémon.im tired of letting discussions like this go on for as long as they do
A) you can’t use Gastro Acid against Pokemon with Magic Bounce
B) This set is just bad in every aspect: It doesnt wall anything you say it does nor any Pokemon commonly used realistically, and it can’t do anything vs poisons, steels, or magic bouncers except get set up on
C) just no this is bad
The only good Shuckle set that will ever exist is the Ampharosite/Gyaradosite web setter. Period.
im not even gonna comment on the fish because that obviously just a meme
Ok, discussion over.
These are intended mechanics. Mega formes cannot be based off of alternate in-game forme changes and hence the Pokemon reverts.Meloetta Pirouette can't gain mega stat boosts, it returns to normal form when it evolves. Having it transform again after evolving gives it pre-mega stats.
I understand if this isn't super high priority lol, but thought I'd bring it up anyway.