M&M Mix and Mega

Now that this change is live, I have one question. Will the prevos of pokemon with restricted stones be able to use them? For example, will Pidgeotto be able to Pidgeotite? This would be useless except for challenges, which is what I want to do.
That's not currently planned, and probably won't happen. Generally speaking, the Pokemon specific stone unbans aren't something we're looking for more of.
 
Guys, just so you all know, I will be using diancite Zorua in all of my teams.

Anyway, will any nfe/lc pokemon be viable except doublade? I don’t really see any point in unbanning them, except that brodaha will have a lot of fun, since nobody will actually use them. Onto the subject of Mega Gengar, what will the classic set be? Will it be a perish song set or specially offensive set? I can see how amazing it will be with Zygarde/Terrakion, but the core is still not perfect, and definitely needs more Pokemon to fit in around them, eg, an Arceus-Ground check.
 
Yeah I dont see anything but Doublade being even decent. If you ever wanted to use Aegislash for Terrakion then you can use Doublade now I guess. I just dont see it being worthwhile to use anything else, to me the next best thing to use would be like Scyther. Even then its just bad. Pinsirite would be okay but better off on a better Pokemon Magearna. so yeah dont try using nfe/lc pokemon if you want to win.

free xerneas
 
I had an idea for a set I've never seen contemplated, and I wanted to run it through here, I think it'll be pretty good.

Zygarde @ Banettite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Glare
- Coil
- Thousand Arrows
- Iron Tail

Banettite will give Zygarde a significant Attack boost, as well as small boosts to bulk and speed. In addition, Banettite's Prankster ability will give Zygarde priority on Glare, and while less impacted from it, Coil as well. Glare will make up for Zygarde's low speed, and Coil, beyond boosting physical prowess further, will make up for Iron Tail's low accuracy.

So, viable?
 
I had an idea for a set I've never seen contemplated, and I wanted to run it through here, I think it'll be pretty good.

Zygarde @ Banettite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Glare
- Coil
- Thousand Arrows
- Iron Tail

Banettite will give Zygarde a significant Attack boost, as well as small boosts to bulk and speed. In addition, Banettite's Prankster ability will give Zygarde priority on Glare, and while less impacted from it, Coil as well. Glare will make up for Zygarde's low speed, and Coil, beyond boosting physical prowess further, will make up for Iron Tail's low accuracy.

So, viable?
Heh heh heh, I actually used that set on my first ever MnM team, except with Dragon Tail instead of Iron Tail. However, I do believe it to be outclassed by lucarionite zygarde, as it hits harder, can still take more hits even with priority coil, and doesn’t get OHKOed by altarianite entei’s extreme speed. Glare can still be used on lucarionite zygarde, as well as coil, and it doesn’t really matter about priority, as it can switch in on something like a chipped magearna, and still glare while it switches out.

But this isn’t the reason I posted. I posted to try and get an evaluation on one of my personal teams. Here it is:
Xerneas @ Choice Specs
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Thunderbolt

Magearna @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Calm Mind
- Pain Split

And so I start with a core I’ve seen Chazm use in a great team, so it must be good right? Not much to say about it except that it’s a good core.

Gliscor @ Blue Orb
Ability: Hyper Cutter
EVs: 208 HP / 184 Atk / 116 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Tail
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance
- Roost

Next came this Pokemon, as it patches up the Primal-Groundon Weakness fairly nicely, and provides a decent breaker to Blissey, once you’ve set up a swords dance. It’s also my main check to all the other Red Orb users, like Victini, and can even chip switch-in Pdon a lot, for Xerneas or something to finish off.

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 192 SpD / 8 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Overheat
- Precipice Blades
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic

Classic defensive Pdon here. My rocks setter, solid wallbreaker and a wall itself, I needed a reliable magearna check and *moana there you are*. It can simply place a toxic on many switchins to Pdon, like Gliscor and other checks, while giving off an ultra powerful overheat to annoying Pokemon that this genderless beast doesn’t like.

Togekiss @ Venusaurite
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Air Slash

So I had this idea of venusaurite Togekiss as a cleric and defensive wall and it has been proving effective as just a general wall. I also needed a defogger and clerics are useful so I added this instead of Blissey

Metagross @ Pinsirite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Explosion
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake

Finally, I added Metagross as a Landorus and Altarianite Zygarde check, as well as a general wallbreaker. It also plays a nice role at exploding in Buzzwole’s face, for other Pokemon to finish off if it doesn’t quite kill.


Any thoughts would be appreciated, although I only made this post to end the boring discussion of nfe and lc Pokemon.
 
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- + ----- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Use | Usage % | Win % | Win |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- + ----- +
| - | Arceus-* | 44 | 56.41% | 54.54% |(24-20)|
| 1 | Groudon | 42 | 53.84% | 47.62% |(20-22)|
| 2 | Zygarde | 33 | 42.31% | 54.55% |(18-15)|
| 3 | Magearna | 32 | 41.03% | 59.36% |(19-13)|
| 4 | Mew | 27 | 34.62% | 51.85% |(14-13)|
| 5 | Darkrai | 22 | 28.21% | 45.45% |(10-12)|
| 6 | Lunala | 16 | 20.51% | 56.25% | (9-7) |
| 6 | Arceus-Ground | 16 | 20.51% | 50.00% | (8-8) |
| 8 | Zapdos | 15 | 19.23% | 53.33% | (8-7) |
| 9 | Entei | 13 | 16.66% | 61.54% | (8-5) |
| 9 | Buzzwole | 13 | 16.66% | 61.54% | (8-5) |
| 9 | Arceus-Fairy | 13 | 16.66% | 46.15% | (6-7) |
| 9 | Landorus-Therian | 13 | 16.66% | 46.15% | (6-7) |
| 13 | Toxapex | 11 | 14.10% | 63.63% | (7-4) |
| 13 | Terrakion | 11 | 14.10% | 54.54% | (6-5) |
| 13 | Ho-Oh | 11 | 14.10% | 45.45% | (5-6) |
| 16 | Kyogre | 10 | 12.82% | 60.00% | (6-4) |
| 16 | Necrozma-Dusk-Mane | 10 | 12.82% | 30.00% | (3-7) |
| 18 | Blissey | 9 | 11.54% | 44.44% | (4-5) |
| 18 | Yveltal | 9 | 11.54% | 33.33% | (3-6) |
| 20 | Arceus-Rock | 8 | 10.26% | 75.00% | (6-2) |
| 20 | Shuckle | 8 | 10.26% | 37.50% | (3-5) |
| 20 | Genesect | 8 | 10.26% | 37.50% | (3-5) |
| 20 | Mandibuzz | 8 | 10.26% | 37.50% | (3-5) |
| 20 | Skarmory | 8 | 10.26% | 37.50% | (3-5) |
| 25 | Tapu Lele | 7 | 8.97% | 42.86% | (3-4) |
| 26 | Giratina-Origin | 6 | 7.69% | 16.16% | (1-5) |
| 27 | Gliscor | 5 | 6.41% | 60.00% | (3-2) |
| 28 | Golisopod | 4 | 5.13% | 75.00% | (3-1) |
| 28 | Victini | 4 | 5.13% | 75.00% | (3-1) |
| 28 | Dugtrio | 4 | 5.13% | 50.00% | (2-2) |
| 28 | Metagross | 4 | 5.13% | 50.00% | (2-2) |
| 28 | Manaphy | 4 | 5.13% | 50.00% | (2-2) |
| 28 | Shaymin-Sky | 4 | 5.13% | 25.00% | (1-3) |
| 34 | Azelf | 3 | 3.85% | 33.33% | (1-2) |
| 34 | Kartana | 3 | 3.85% | 33.33% | (1-2) |
| 34 | Zeraora | 3 | 3.85% | 33.33% | (1-2) |
| 37 | Xerneas | 2 | 2.56% | 100.00% | (2-0) |
| 37 | Hippowdon | 2 | 2.56% | 100.00% | (2-0) |
| 37 | Ditto | 2 | 2.56% | 100.00% | (2-0) |
| 37 | Arceus-Ghost | 2 | 2.56% | 50.00% | (1-1) |
| 37 | Noivern | 2 | 2.56% | 50.00% | (1-1) |
| 37 | Volcarona | 2 | 2.56% | 50.00% | (1-1) |
| 37 | Keldeo | 2 | 2.56% | 50.00% | (1-1) |
| 37 | Mamoswine | 2 | 2.56% | 50.00% | (1-1) |
| 37 | Mewtwo | 2 | 2.56% | 50.00% | (1-1) |
| 37 | Rayquaza | 2 | 2.56% | 0.00% | (0-2) |
| 37 | Salamence | 2 | 2.56% | 0.00% | (0-2) |
| 37 | Deoxys-Speed | 2 | 2.56% | 0.00% | (0-2) |
| 37 | Tapu Koko | 2 | 2.56% | 0.00% | (0-2) |
| 50 | Kyurem | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Excadrill | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Starmie | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Infernape | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Weavile | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Stakataka | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Solgaleo | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Gogoat | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Arceus-Dark | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Amoonguss | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Giratina | 1 | 1.28% | 100.00% | (1-0) |
| 50 | Florges | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Cobalion | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Arceus-Poison | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Deoxys-Attack | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Hoopa-Unbound | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Muk-Alola | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Crobat | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Garchomp | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Shedinja | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Arceus-Flying | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Togekiss | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |
| 50 | Zekrom | 1 | 1.28% | 0.00% | (0-1) |

alright guys here is the cumulative stats for mnm during OMPL

most of this usage and winrates are pretty normal with the big 3 of Mage/Pdon/Zyg all having >40% usage, further cementing the “Big Three”. Aside from that, there are some stats of note:

First off, there was a surge of Darkrai usage, which has jumped from barely being used before OMPL to #5 in usage with it being used on over 1/4 teams

Mew’s usage has been rising ever since USM started and with the addition of its Manectite set, it has gone to #4 in usage. However I do believe Mew’s usage will begin to decline soon

Arceus-Ground had previously been on the decline before OMPL, but with the increase in usage of the Calm Mind set, it has found its place in the meta again

Toxapex and Toxic Spikes have been good for a while now, but during OMPL Toxapex really was able to utilize both its Gyaradosite and Latiasite sets

Terrakion’s usage is lower than its viability may make it seem, but it is still a formidable threat in the meta.

Kyogre has shown once again to be a huge threat that many teams are unprepared for, and this OMPL cements its power in the tier

Arceus-Rock is another new threat that net a whopping 75% winrate, the highest of any pokemon with more than 10% usage. It’s a solid blanket check to a lot of threats in the tier such as Entei and Pinsirite Magearna

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane had a very poor run this OMPL, sporting a very low 30% winrate. This may be because of poor matchups, or it may be falling off

most others didnt really have the usage to give an accurate assessment on, but Yveltal, Mandibuzz, and Giratina-O didn’t have the best winrates despite doing very well in the games they did win
 

Funbot28

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This is a fun little defensive core I have been using as of late on the majority of my balance teams thanks to each of these mons covering the majority of top metagame offensive threats on their own. They also synergize quite well with eachother, meaning their placement on the same team does not really create an awkward build in the majority of cases and they also work great alongside wallbreakers such as Darkrai, Zygarde, and Terrakion which can help break through opposing defensive walls.


: checks
(Diancite sets)
(Pinsirite)


I feel Sablenite Magearna has kinda flown under the radar due to the emergence of more offensively inclined sets such as Cameruptite and Manectite. However, I still believe the standard Sablenite Specially Defensive pivot set to work quite well in the current metagame due to it checking an abundance of special attackers and even some physical threats thanks to its amazing defensive typing. I also appreciate it due to its lack of passivity, since STAB Fleur Cannons still hits hella hard even uninvested while Heart Swap helps deal with most special setup sweepers that would try to use it as fodder. It also counters Darkrai which is a huge threat right now.

: checks
(non- Smack Down)
(Altarianite)


Latiasite Toxapex is an amazing partner for Magearna as it checks most Fire and Ground types which threaten Mag, while Psychic types are checked in return by its partner. It is also good as a general mixed defensive pivot that can be quite annoying with Regenerator pre-mega and being able to spam Toxic / Scald without much repercussion is also really good for it. Haze is also great to again check setup sweepers that my try to break through the defensive core too. Primal Groudon and Entei are too big threats though that Pex handles really well and is the main reason why it is added.

: checks
(SD)


Manectite Mew was added to check certain physical threats that can threaten Mag + Pex such as Zygarde, Terrakion, and Kartana mainly. It also aids Toxapex in acting as a secondary answer to certain physical attackers such as Primal Groudon and Salamencite Landorus-T which can break through Pex if it has been weakened enough. Mew also provides entry hazard removal support which eases off pressure for Magearna especially when the most common SR users in Primal Groudon and Terrakion can break through it. I like Ice Beam + Earth Power coverage to break through the most amount of threats but Will-O-Wisp is an option as well to provide an emergency fix to certain physical threats that may become too overwhelming.

Overall, I feel the core works incredibly well in the current meta, only with certain threats such as Victini, Raikou, and Incinerate Darkrai being able to break through it. Definitely try it out on your balance teams if you haven't already!
 
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Shuckle- My advice is that you set up with a few Shell Smashes before you mega evolve- this enables Shuckle to have some bulk before it truly stalls. Leave Toxic until you're sure you can use it safely (same with Rest). This set, if used appropriately, is the key to stalling out a whole team. Shuckle is only truly threatened by Aerialate sets and buffed special sweepers with access to Flamethrower.
Carvanha- This set is of my own creation! This set is mainly to get rid of unstoppable sweepers, and is all about killing itself so it can kill others; it's a classic example of a prankster set. Only keep this in for emergencies; it is pitfully useless against Gyaradosite sets and other Dark-types, and is not to be used against stallers. Finally a viable LC Stone user
 
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Overall, I feel the core works incredibly well in the current meta, only with certain threats such as Victini, Raikou, and Incinerate Darkrai being able to break through it. Definitely try it out on your balance teams if you haven't already!
There's a Pokemon in your signature that could patch that, in one form or another anyways.

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Shuckle- My advice is that you set up with a few Shell Smashes before you mega evolve- this enables Shuckle to have some bulk before it truly stalls. Leave Toxic until you're sure you can use it safely (same with Rest). This set, if used appropriately, is the key to stalling out a whole team. Shuckle is only truly threatened by Aerialate sets and buffed special sweepers with access to Flamethrower.
Carvanha- This set is of my own creation! This set is mainly to get rid of unstoppable sweepers, and is all about killing itself so it can kill others; it's a classic example of a prankster set. Only keep this in for emergencies; it is pitfully useless against Gyaradosite sets and other Dark-types, and is not to be used against stallers. Finally a viable LC Stone user
All Shuckle get 3ko'd by Seismic Toss. Several setup sweepers are either immune to Toxic by typing, Magic Bounce or by setting up a Substitute. Finally, breaking 20/255/250 isn't monumentally difficult, especially as your set doesn't have HP investment; Lucarionite and Diancite Terrakion immediately come to mind as it has Swords Dance to boost faster that Contrary Smash and doesn't even need to hit super effectively.

As for Carvahna... have you noticed how there are BARELY any Banettite users outside the odd Breloom? 99/100 times you're better off actively checking whatever is attempting to threaten your team, and the 1 time is whenever you run into some abstract shitpost you couldn't have possibly prepared for.
 
This thread needs some activity and I have done absolutely nothing for it since p much the beginning of time, so i'm going to post a few hot takes on the current metagame. These are literally what the term "hot takes" entail, i'm basically going to be typing out my thoughts as they come to me and some of these may be "hotter" than others. Feel free to disagree on any of these and tell me why i'm wrong since that's half the point of these kind of things in the first place.

This one is honestly kinda borrowed from Chazm but Zygarde is ridiculous right now. With the diminishing popularity of the best Zygarde counter Buzzwole, (particularly aggronite Buzzwole), this guy has found a few new sets like sub outrage to exploit teams that are unprepared for anything other than mono ground coverage Lucarionite Zygarde while also eliminating the previous drawback of running outrage Luc Zyg in that Zyg can set subs and then freely spam outrage without the fear of Fairies coming in and revenging after a sack. To make matters better for the ground snek, Altarianite Zygarde can be very underprepared for currently and is thus a potent threat once again. This is once again, due to the general diminishing popularity of Buzzwole and the newly discovered Sablenite Buzzwole which does a great job checking Lucarionite Zygarde, Kartana and Darkrai, but does a very poor job answering Alt Zyg. It doesn't seem uncommon to see teams with only pokemon such as ice beam supportceus, magearna and manec mew as answers to alt zyg. Manectite mew is the best at checking it out of the three but can still easily be overwhelmed by bulkier variants of Alt Zyg as if Zyg gets in at full and begins stacking dd's it fails to 2hko with ice beam and in turn gets 2hko'd by +1 return. This resurgence of Alt Zyg's viability and continued solidification of the effectiveness of Luc Zyg with added coverage is what makes this pokemon so great right now. Oh yeah, it's also still busted with t-spikes up.

Now is the time to get creative and catch others off guard with innovation; particularly if you're an offensive player or someone who enjoys offensively oriented teams. Everyone who knows me knows I am a big fan of a lure I think really shines in the current meta, Pinsirite Terrakion. The idea behind this mon is not only break past mons that are commonly considered terrak checks but use them for setup fodder with the new rock/flying typing and stab aerilate return. Pokemon like Manec Mew, Groundceus, Buzzwole (both aggronite and sablenite), Fairyceus etc can not switch in and check anymore. This is only the tip of the iceberg as Chazm also absolutely slaughtered my unprepared team with Pinsirite Kartana. Lures in general and specifically pinsirite lures seem to be very strong and effective in this meta and I would encourage those looking to get into mix and mega or those who are maybe looking for something fresh and new to mess around with unconventional ate stones and such to make some new jank threats that may not seem as effective as the conventional sets, but excel in catching opponents off guard in certain matchups.

I know other players in the mnm scene are talking about posting about this, but i'm going to throw some of my thoughts on this as well. I'm not sure what it is right now, maybe this is a regular cycling occurrence that i'm experiencing for the first time due to being somewhat new in the community, but it seems that recently, people were suddenly convinced that Blissey is just too good and unhealthy for the meta. From what i've gathered, the general consensus from the OM community outside of mnm is "Blissey with an additional 50 in both defenses and magic bounce? That's an insanely broken combo and it invalidates half the meta." While I understand where this conclusion is being drawn from on paper, i'm going to speak on what I think are the two most simple reasons why Blissey is currently not only far from broken, it's just plain underwhelming.

The first of these reasons is mnm is currently a highly offensive metagame. The top threats that we know and fear are incredibly potent and it is almost impossible to cover all of them defensively. This forces more offensively oriented teams that either refuse to let the common set up sweepers from finding a chance to set up or to chip the sweeper and then revenge with adequate speed control. Blissey is at a bad place in this department. It's a fat blob that never dies... so the people say... except when something strong starts sding up in front of it, then it runs for its life and thus offers the exact setup window these breakers are looking for and this passivity can prove fatal for Blissey's teammates as a result. The primary threat that enjoys using Blissey as fodder is Terrakion. Terrakion is and always has been an absolute terror in the USUM meta. Defensive answers are scarce and easily smashed through as Lucarionite Terrakion should almost always be carrying taunt to effectively click a strong attack vs the pokemon that is attempting to switch in, taunt it on the recover the following turn, and bingo! Defensive switch is no more. All this to say that Terrakion will break holes in teams if it gets plenty of free switches and the presence of Blissey on a team allows for these free switches particularly if the Terrak player is in tune to when Blissey wishes to come in on a special attacker or such and is willing to aggressively double.

The second reason is Blissey seems to be either stuck trying to do a little too much or is being forced into limiting roles that subtract from its effectiveness in other needed areas. This pokemon has repeatedly tried to adapt to a meta that continues to exploit it and just cannot seem to keep up. The first step of Bliss's nightmares stemmed from the emergence of sub CM Lunala. Before this set became standard, Blissey was thought of as an excellent Lunala check. After all, Lunala is a special attacker so Blissey can just come in, toxic it, and spam recovery. Well with CM, Sub, and Psyshock at its disposal Lunala was suddenly using Blissey as set up fodder instead of the other way around. As this set gained popularity and one too many fat blobs were slaughtered, poor Blissey was forced to start running either psywave/toxic or psywave/confide to properly wall Lunala once more. However, psywave's inconsistent rolls and inability to hit dark types has proven to be an annoyance as well and with the combination of psywave and confide, Blissey is forced to either forgo toxic or heal bell, thus limiting its effectiveness as either a cleric or to spread status. As psywave became more standard for Blissey, Darkrai began running sub nasty plot sometimes even in conjunction with Lunala so that either way, one of those two could use Blissey as fodder.

I've seen Blissey running a few other sets like charm/block and calm mind, but these go even further down the road of ignoring the potential support Blissey offers a team in favor covering threats 1v1 as charm/block has absolutely no room for cleric and is honestly not great as it still struggles to beat SD cleaners that normally enjoy exploiting it like Terrakion, Kartana and pokemon like Landorus-T offensive P-don, and Cobalion pressure this Blissey hard and it can never switch in while they are boosting. Calm mind Blissey is going to be running cm, two coverage options, and recovery. Once again, no room for the common support moves Blissey likes to run to help out the rest of its team and this set still gets destroyed Terrakion, SD P-don, etc.

I could ramble for a while on this but the main point i'm trying to make is that yes, Blissey is fat and annoying. Yes, it can effectively wall a lot of the special (and even physical) meta that doesn't have access to powerful ways of boosting offenses. However, it is very easy to exploit and use as setup fodder and the drawbacks for that weakness are just too great right now. There are too many power breakers for a pokemon like Blissey to excel in the current metagame. Yveltal doesn't mind being walled by Blissey if it can u-turn on the obvious switch and allow free switch ins for Terrakion. If you don't want to lose to a Blissey, do not pack non howl Entei, Supportceus, Yveltal, Lati Pex, Giratina-o, and Kyurem on one team. If you're having trouble with this pokemon, pack powerful breakers that exploit it.

That's all that readily comes to mind for now. Yes, the grammar is probably absolutely everywhere in this but I can't be asked to proofread so it is what it is. These are just my thoughts typed out as they come to me so if you disagree, tell me why! It might be fun to do this weekly or monthly or w/e but we'll see.
 
A bit of a post OMPL update on what I've been finding good:

Adamant Kartana

FUCK BUZZWOLE (Kartana) @ Metagrossite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Return / Smart Strike
- Swords Dance

+4 252+ Atk Tough Claws Kartana Sacred Sword vs. -1 248 HP / 252+ Def Buzzwole: 380-448 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO (Equivalent to +3 -> +2)
252+ Atk Tough Claws Kartana Smart Strike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Magearna: 159-187 (43.6 - 51.3%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

A problem I've recently been having with Kartana is its lack of power and problems with a few Pokemon (see: Buzzwole, Magearna, Primal Groudon). However, what I also noticed is that a lot of the 131~148 speed tier is nearly absent from normal play. So, slapping on an Adamant nature actually makes Kartana the wallbreaker I wanted it to be in the first place. Having a good chance of KOing Buzzwole outright without hazards and potentially 2HKOing Cameruptite Magearna with Smart Strike after Stealth Rock really fixes a few of the issues this mon usually has with breaking things. It also removes the roll from 2HKOing 184 HP Altarianite Entei, nabs a 50% KO chance on max Defense Venusaurite Zapdos after Stealth Rock at +2, comes close to guaranteed 2HKOing 248 HP / 8 Def Groudon-Primal after pre-mega Stealth Rocks (84% chance) and a few other convenient things.

BoltBeam Split Magearna

ground types suck (Magearna) @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 120 SpA / 24 Spe
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Calm Mind
- Pain Split

252+ Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Magearna: 152-180 (41.7 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Magearna: 60-72 (16.4 - 19.7%) -- possible 6HKO
120+ SpA Sheer Force Magearna Ice Beam vs. 112 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 330-390 (85.7 - 101.2%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
120+ SpA Sheer Force Magearna Ice Beam vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 330-390 (82.2 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
24 Atk Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 252 HP / 112 Def Magearna: 118-140 (32.4 - 38.4%) -- 98.1% chance to 3HKO
120+ SpA Sheer Force Magearna Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 92 SpD Zygarde: 302-356 (72 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is probably one of the better offensive Magearnas to be using on offense right now, and it mixes and matches the offensive capabilities of OTR CM whilst still keeping the longevity of Split sets. As a lot of teams seem to be forgoing some of the better checks to BoltBeam (see: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Victini, certain sets of Lunala) it seems to be particularly good at beating the teams which often rely on Primal Groudon + another Ground-type to attempt to beat it. This also happens to be abusing current trends at the moment, where Entei usage appears to be dipping, in favour of Altarianite Zygarde, which is the main reason this Magearna is EV'd in this way. It helps that Zygarde is often forced to click Extreme Speed in the majority of cases, allowing this Magearna to come in a lot more often than it may seem in practice. A disadvantage of running the spread above however is the failure to obtain the OHKO on 4/0 Altarianite Zygarde, however, considering most Zygarde are bulkier than this, the OHKO sometimes isn't possible to get. However, careful play with Pain Split will allow you to 1v1 every variant regardless. Does help that Altarianite Zygarde is also scared out by the possibility of Flash Cannon.

Bulky Altarianite Zygarde

ice beam is bad (Zygarde) @ Altarianite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 248 HP / 24 Atk / 140 Def / 92 SpD
Impish Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Return / Thousand Arrows
- Coil
- Pain Split

Probably one of my favourite mons to use on bulkier builds right now, as it takes massive pressure off from Terrakion and Darkrai. It helps immensely with a few more uncommon wallbreakers, particularly putting pressure on most offensive Water-types, mainly Keldeo and Primal Kyogre. On more balanced teams, I could also see it working as the Fire resist - with Thousand Arrows, it takes on Victini quite well, and whilst I'm certain it doesn't beat Azelf without a bit more investment (240 HP / 132 Atk / 64 Def / 92 SpD Impish manages non-Gleam variants), it can be used for other Fire-types in this way. However, the main usage I see with it is mono-Return: this is particularly nice as you are guaranteed to OHKO Lucarionite Terrakion, and you conserve Extreme Speed PP: for the sorts of teams this fits on, this is near enough imperative. Facade is an option if you want to absorb burns, but I don't see much other use for it.

Venusaurite Skarmory

lando sucks (Skarmory) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Toxic / Brave Bird
- Defog
- Whirlwind / Brave Bird

+2 104+ Atk Pixilate Landorus-Therian Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 123-146 (36.8 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252+ Atk Groudon-Primal Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 144-170 (43.1 - 50.8%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Thick Fat Skarmory: 42-50 (12.5 - 14.9%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Skarmory: 128-152 (38.3 - 45.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Skarmory: 98-116 (29.3 - 34.7%) -- 8.1% chance to 3HKO

Skarmory really appreciates the extra defense from this stone, and freeing up Blue Orb is also a nice thing to have, especially for the sorts of teams that this mon fits on. As shown, it can still check the various things it usually would, with the only exception being that it doesn't check any sort of Mixed variant of Primal Groudon (yes, this includes defensive SR). As a result, I feel as this is probably one of the best partners for Blissey in this way; it helps that Blissey can also check the things that Skarmory can somewhat struggle with as a tandem: this really does help the bulkier builds willing to use this core stay alive a lot easier.
 
This one is honestly kinda borrowed from Chazm but Zygarde is ridiculous right now. With the diminishing popularity of the best Zygarde counter Buzzwole, (particularly aggronite Buzzwole), this guy has found a few new sets like sub outrage to exploit teams that are unprepared for anything other than mono ground coverage Lucarionite Zygarde while also eliminating the previous drawback of running outrage Luc Zyg in that Zyg can set subs and then freely spam outrage without the fear of Fairies coming in and revenging after a sack. To make matters better for the ground snek, Altarianite Zygarde can be very underprepared for currently and is thus a potent threat once again. This is once again, due to the general diminishing popularity of Buzzwole and the newly discovered Sablenite Buzzwole which does a great job checking Lucarionite Zygarde, Kartana and Darkrai, but does a very poor job answering Alt Zyg. It doesn't seem uncommon to see teams with only pokemon such as ice beam supportceus, magearna and manec mew as answers to alt zyg. Manectite mew is the best at checking it out of the three but can still easily be overwhelmed by bulkier variants of Alt Zyg as if Zyg gets in at full and begins stacking dd's it fails to 2hko with ice beam and in turn gets 2hko'd by +1 return. This resurgence of Alt Zyg's viability and continued solidification of the effectiveness of Luc Zyg with added coverage is what makes this pokemon so great right now. Oh yeah, it's also still busted with t-spikes up.
Pretty much agreed with this one. Zygarde is an utter menace to answer at the moment, but I'll probably say the hardest thing about it to answer is trying to answer it without handing momentum over to one of Zygarde's partners. In particular, I feel that the effectiveness of Lucarionite Zygarde + Cameruptite Magearna is nearly unparalleled by any other combination of two Pokemon in the metagame, and that it is nearly impossible to answer the two in tandem, especially considering the amount of viable coverage options Magearna has at the moment. Doesn't help that both of them are extremely good at abusing Toxic Spikes either. Hazards up alongside this combination simply eats at defensive counterplay extremely efficiently. Doesn't help that its hard to OHKO either Pokemon - certain checks such as Ice Beam Arceus and 0 Atk Primal Groudon simply cannot nab the KO they need on either of them to stop one of the Pokemon from sweeping. I'd already argue that both Pokemon alone are harder to consistently answer than Primal Groudon: one might argue that Mixed SD is incredibly threatening to defensive teams, and I would agree, but offensively, this variant has a lot that can switch in and deter it (mainly Lucarionite Zygarde, but Landorus-Therian can revenge if Sticky Webs are up, too) as well as having a lot of problems with longevity issues and predominantly finding checks to Magearna - an Ice Beam will usually make Eruption useless.

A few nitpicks: 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 240 HP / 212+ Def Mew: 153-180 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Mew doesn't 2HKO back but Zygarde can't 2HKO back either: however, this does mean that on switchin, you cannot beat a full health Zygarde.

I know other players in the mnm scene are talking about posting about this, but i'm going to throw some of my thoughts on this as well. I'm not sure what it is right now, maybe this is a regular cycling occurrence that i'm experiencing for the first time due to being somewhat new in the community, but it seems that recently, people were suddenly convinced that Blissey is just too good and unhealthy for the meta. From what i've gathered, the general consensus from the OM community outside of mnm is "Blissey with an additional 50 in both defenses and magic bounce? That's an insanely broken combo and it invalidates half the meta." While I understand where this conclusion is being drawn from on paper, i'm going to speak on what I think are the two most simple reasons why Blissey is currently not only far from broken, it's just plain underwhelming.

The first of these reasons is mnm is currently a highly offensive metagame. The top threats that we know and fear are incredibly potent and it is almost impossible to cover all of them defensively. This forces more offensively oriented teams that either refuse to let the common set up sweepers from finding a chance to set up or to chip the sweeper and then revenge with adequate speed control. Blissey is at a bad place in this department. It's a fat blob that never dies... so the people say... except when something strong starts sding up in front of it, then it runs for its life and thus offers the exact setup window these breakers are looking for and this passivity can prove fatal for Blissey's teammates as a result. The primary threat that enjoys using Blissey as fodder is Terrakion. Terrakion is and always has been an absolute terror in the USUM meta. Defensive answers are scarce and easily smashed through as Lucarionite Terrakion should almost always be carrying taunt to effectively click a strong attack vs the pokemon that is attempting to switch in, taunt it on the recover the following turn, and bingo! Defensive switch is no more. All this to say that Terrakion will break holes in teams if it gets plenty of free switches and the presence of Blissey on a team allows for these free switches particularly if the Terrak player is in tune to when Blissey wishes to come in on a special attacker or such and is willing to aggressively double.

The second reason is Blissey seems to be either stuck trying to do a little too much or is being forced into limiting roles that subtract from its effectiveness in other needed areas. This pokemon has repeatedly tried to adapt to a meta that continues to exploit it and just cannot seem to keep up. The first step of Bliss's nightmares stemmed from the emergence of sub CM Lunala. Before this set became standard, Blissey was thought of as an excellent Lunala check. After all, Lunala is a special attacker so Blissey can just come in, toxic it, and spam recovery. Well with CM, Sub, and Psyshock at its disposal Lunala was suddenly using Blissey as set up fodder instead of the other way around. As this set gained popularity and one too many fat blobs were slaughtered, poor Blissey was forced to start running either psywave/toxic or psywave/confide to properly wall Lunala once more. However, psywave's inconsistent rolls and inability to hit dark types has proven to be an annoyance as well and with the combination of psywave and confide, Blissey is forced to either forgo toxic or heal bell, thus limiting its effectiveness as either a cleric or to spread status. As psywave became more standard for Blissey, Darkrai began running sub nasty plot sometimes even in conjunction with Lunala so that either way, one of those two could use Blissey as fodder.

I've seen Blissey running a few other sets like charm/block and calm mind, but these go even further down the road of ignoring the potential support Blissey offers a team in favor covering threats 1v1 as charm/block has absolutely no room for cleric and is honestly not great as it still struggles to beat SD cleaners that normally enjoy exploiting it like Terrakion, Kartana and pokemon like Landorus-T offensive P-don, and Cobalion pressure this Blissey hard and it can never switch in while they are boosting. Calm mind Blissey is going to be running cm, two coverage options, and recovery. Once again, no room for the common support moves Blissey likes to run to help out the rest of its team and this set still gets destroyed Terrakion, SD P-don, etc.

I could ramble for a while on this but the main point i'm trying to make is that yes, Blissey is fat and annoying. Yes, it can effectively wall a lot of the special (and even physical) meta that doesn't have access to powerful ways of boosting offenses. However, it is very easy to exploit and use as setup fodder and the drawbacks for that weakness are just too great right now. There are too many power breakers for a pokemon like Blissey to excel in the current metagame. Yveltal doesn't mind being walled by Blissey if it can u-turn on the obvious switch and allow free switch ins for Terrakion. If you don't want to lose to a Blissey, do not pack non howl Entei, Supportceus, Yveltal, Lati Pex, Giratina-o, and Kyurem on one team. If you're having trouble with this pokemon, pack powerful breakers that exploit it.
Unfortunately for me, I find it quite the opposite when talking about Terrakion here. Terrakion really doesn't like taking any sort of chip damage from Blissey - it sorta mandates a slow pivot, and versus Blissey, such a thing is effectively impossible, as Blissey can drop its unimportant Speed for 0 IV Sablenite Magearna, the slowest pivot in the current metagame. If it takes any, it starts losing to its pseudo-checks like Aggronite Buzzwole. It isn't the biggest problem for Blissey either. What I find so ridiculously annoying using Blissey is the fact that multiple breakers can often just try to smash through it, usually through the likes of CM Spam or multiple SD boosters such so that Blissey cannot take advantage of its huge bulk and modest support movepool. Mold Breaker is also super annoying - Gyaradosite Toxapex will always be able to force it out and start burning its Heal Bell PP, or start setting Toxic Spikes, which really just wears down stall quite badly. Then there are the steels you just can't dent which will reliably force you out every time: mainly looking at Magearna, but also SD Morning Sun Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. The three most common of those mentioned here: Terrakion, Magearna and Gyaradosite Toxapex all give Blissey extreme trouble and honestly the amount of support you need to reliably beat these three when they are supported is immensely difficult, such so that I wouldn't really consider using it on bulky offense like I would have used to. It's irritating, but if I'm honest? It's extremely irritating to hear me talk about it, but again and again I will mention how stall basically has no answers for an at least decently supported Magearna: even trying to use combinations such as Confide Blissey + Primal Groudon and then having it break them shows how difficult it can be to actually answer this monster of a Pokemon. Even if you try to answer it you will most likely be underprepped for the rest of the metagame. It really is the antidote to Blissey, in my opinion - any other solid breaker, such as mixed SD Don, Primal Kyogre, Zygarde: anything that can pair with it at least decently well will effectively be so difficult to defensively answer for Blissey that you're better off trying to go anti-meta and find other ways of checking it.

Offensive pressure is also super annoying for Blissey - any sort of boosting wallbreaker will likely just be able to smash through Blissey, and seeing as Darkrai is on the rise, for a team such as stall to answer it is very difficult, even WITH chip. Not to mention that one of Darkrai's best counters is unavailable due to Blissey taking up the Sablenite slot - Sablenite Buzzwole is simply unpairable with it. Webs will usually just have one or two breakers which find going past Blissey is an extremely easy feat: Kartana will happily force it out, the aforementioned mixed SD Dons will usually beat out Blissey's team well with prediction, -ate Explosion users can force claim KOs... it all mounts up to Blissey often times not checking what it could due to how much it ends up getting forced to click Softboiled from even neutral hits: and that PP isn't lasting long with how much it has to / can answer. Though, I do feel as if it is possible to partner Blissey such so that it isn't weak to these threats, but it's certainly difficult: not the splashable 'checks 95% of the special attacking meta' that a lot of outside players will think about it.
 
A few nitpicks: 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 240 HP / 212+ Def Mew: 153-180 (38.1 - 44.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO - Mew doesn't 2HKO back but Zygarde can't 2HKO back either: however, this does mean that on switchin, you cannot beat a full health Zygarde.
I mean... I suppose I can clarify that if you thought I was implying that bulky Alt Zyg switches in and sets up on Manec mew, but I figured that by saying a "check" that implied that mew would be switching into Zyg and losing by failing to 2hko while Alt Zyg dd's twice and is thus able to muscle past the Mew... +1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 248 HP / 212+ Def Mew: 228-268 (56.5 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO I was not trying to say Zyg is coming in on Manec Mew and trying to set up in its face.

As for disagreeing on Terrakion, the bottom line here that i'm trying to put across is that Terrakion absolutely annihilates every Blissey set ever and will continue to annihilate ever Blissey set ever. Teams generally aren't well prepared for Terrakion, Blissey or not so giving Terrakion opportunities to come in too often can very much tear a team apart chip or not. I also mentioned players aggressively doubling into Terrakion on predictable Blissey switches, this obviously eliminates opportunities for Blissey to chip as it is immediately forces out as opposed to having a turn to do what it wishes.

Def agree about moldy mons and Gyara Pex being a major pain for Blissey I was actually going to mention that myself but forgot to do so and it was getting too long anyways... Also a good point mentioning cm spam as a way to bypass Bliss since.. that does indeed smash past it with ease. Overall, I think we can all agree that Blissey rolls over to offensive pressure and considering there is a ton of that in the current meta, it struggles quit e a bit.
Also, you found a way to talk about Mage while replying to me REEEEEEEEEE
 
Here is a fun little set I have found very useful recently - I have recently started laddering and there seems to be a lot of stall/setup mons higher up

FUCK STALL (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Perish Song
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Protect

Now not only having Perish Song to force-switch blissey, toxapex, xerneas, or whatever pokemon it needs to go against, it has this.

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 153-181 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 234-276 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 159-187 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 158-188 (44.2 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 222-264 (73.2 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Or, you could switch it up and do more offensive -

FUCK STALL (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song

252 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 404-476 (125 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Terrakion Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 208-245 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
 
Here is a fun little set I have found very useful recently - I have recently started laddering and there seems to be a lot of stall/setup mons higher up

FUCK STALL (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Perish Song
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Protect

Now not only having Perish Song to force-switch blissey, toxapex, xerneas, or whatever pokemon it needs to go against, it has this.

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 153-181 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 234-276 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 159-187 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 158-188 (44.2 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 222-264 (73.2 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Or, you could switch it up and do more offensive -

FUCK STALL (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song

252 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 404-476 (125 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Terrakion Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 208-245 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
Ok, so Arceus-Ground is good, just not with that set. It much prefers a physically defensive set to take minimal damage from all the physical attackers you mentioned plus Primal Groudon. Fire Blast should be replaced with Recover (bro, are you seriously using no recovery Arceus), and Perish Song for Defog, Will o Wisp or Toxic, depending on what you want to beat. The EVs should be something around 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe, with more speed investment if you like.
 
Hi, I both used and helped other people prep for ompl games with groundceus and I have good news, there is a better way for all of this.

ToiriX said:
Here is a fun little set I have found very useful recently - I have recently started laddering and there seems to be a lot of stall/setup mons higher up

FUCK STALL (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Perish Song
- Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
- Protect

Now not only having Perish Song to force-switch blissey, toxapex, xerneas, or whatever pokemon it needs to go against, it has this.

+1 252+ Atk Zygarde Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 153-181 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Zygarde Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 234-276 (52.7 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 159-187 (44.5 - 52.3%) -- 19.1% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Zygarde: 158-188 (44.2 - 52.6%) -- 21.5% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Toxapex: 222-264 (73.2 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Or, you could switch it up and do more offensive -

FUCK STALL (Arceus-Ground) @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Judgment
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam
- Perish Song

252 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 404-476 (125 - 147.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ Atk Terrakion Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ground: 208-245 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO
You can ruin stall even better with actual perish trap instead of just forcing switches!

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Judgment
- Perish Song
- Whirlpool

With this set you give up the checking ability that Ice Beam provides in exchange for actually being able to trap and perish song kill mons like Blissey, non u-turn Zapdos or Mew and other fat passive threats. The evs can vary depending on your team needs, for example if you need groundceus to pressure fires more then you can run this spread since it outpaces Groudon and Victini. But if you have those mons already covered you can run a spread of 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe paired with a bold nature to better handle hits in general but more specifically Ho-oh since you don't get 2hkod by any spread that isn't choice banded. As a final note you will much prefer recover over protect since the mons that you will be trapping are far more capable of taking you out if you rely on protect instead of recover to last through the two perish turns that you need to stay in for.

ZoroWarrior said:
Ok, so Arceus-Ground is good, just not with that set. It much prefers a physically defensive set to take minimal damage from all the physical attackers you mentioned plus Primal Groudon. Fire Blast should be replaced with Recover (bro, are you seriously using no recovery Arceus), and Perish Song for Defog, Will o Wisp or Toxic, depending on what you want to beat. The EVs should be something around 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 Spe, with more speed investment if you like.
Groundceus is good with the perish set if your team needs it to take out passive defensive walls, but if you are using groundceus in a more defensive role then it would much prefer a set like this.

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Defog

This set and spread maximizes your ability to eat up hits and get a defog off while still dissuading mons like Landorus-T, Lucarionite Zygarde, and non Overheat/Eruption Primal Groudon. It should be noted that groundceus is not a resist to mons like Altarianite Zygarde, Lucarionite Terrakion and fire types such as Victini, Ho-oh and mixed or specially focused Primal Groudons. Groundceus can dissuade those aforementioned mons for the most part with stab Judgment or Ice Beam, but it cannot do it consistently since it either gets chipped big time or cannot deal enough damage to properly stop said threats.

Assuming you switched groundceus into Zygarde as it mega evolved using Altarianite and dragon danced.
+1 252+ Atk Pixilate Altarianite Zygarde Frustration vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Ground: 220-259 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 176 HP / 0 SpD Altarianite Zygarde: 158-188 (39.4 - 46.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Frankly the Zygarde user could mega evolve and dragon dance while eating up an Ice Beam and break through groundceus even if he didn't get a boost off on the switch. The HP evs on the Zygarde hit 401 hp so you live 4 Seismic Tosses from Blissey so the bulk isn't just there to counter supportceus.

+2 252 Atk Adaptability Lucarionite Terrakion Close Combat vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Ground: 396-466 (89.7 - 105.6%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Lucarionite Terrakion: 330-390 (102.1 - 120.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Pinsirite Terrakion: 140-166 (43.3 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
Groundceus is able to OHKO any Terrakion that isn't Pinsirite but if it has taken any sort of chip damage it can be taken out if the Terrakion user is able to get a Swords Dance off.

0 SpA Groudon-Primal Overheat vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 255-301 (57.8 - 68.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Groudon-Primal Eruption (150 BP) vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 382-451 (86.6 - 102.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Groundceus can only OHKO Primal Groudon if it is not running any sort of bulk which makes it a shaky check at best albeit it does threaten it severely and can defog away the rocks.
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Groudon-Primal: 330-390 (96.7 - 114.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 252 HP / 200 SpD Groudon-Primal: 270-318 (66.8 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Ground: 280-330 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Groundceus can eat the hit and force the Victini out due to the special defense drops from V-create, but you are losing health overtime since V-create is doing more than 50. Even then you aren't completely safe since the Victini user could be crazy and V-create again or be running coverage like Glaciate to put you close to if not in range of V-create depending on the situation.
4 SpA Victini Glaciate vs. 240 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ground: 114-136 (25.8 - 30.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Victini V-create vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Ground: 280-330 (63.4 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Be also aware that without the special defense drops Judgment is only a roll to OHKO Victini
0 SpA Earth Plate Arceus-Ground Judgment vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini: 302-356 (88.5 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

The only common fire that groundceus has a really poor time against is Ho-oh.
196+ Atk Life Orb Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Ground: 172-203 (39 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Arceus-Ground: 205-243 (46.4 - 55.1%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Ho-Oh: 52-62 (14.7 - 17.5%) -- possible 6HKO
Even if you are able to survive these hits you cannot do any meaningful damage back and Ho-oh can break through you either through Toxic or a burn from Sacred Fire into later Brave Bird hits from the banded set.

If your team doesn't need to rely on groundceus for hazard removal then you can change it up a bit and run a more offensive Calm Mind set to better utilize the ground + ice coverage that gives groundceus its niche.

Arceus-Ground @ Earth Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Ice Beam
- Recover

The focus of this set is to take advantage of the coverage in a more offensive way and to possibly break through the opposing team if they do not have proper ground resists that can handle this Calm Mind set. This spread allows you to outpace jolly max speed Pinsirite or Salamencite Landorus-T and either force it out or kill it with ice beam, same story with the fires such as Victini and Primal Groudon all of which are very important and are the primary focus of the set.

252 Atk Aerilate Pinsirite Landorus-Therian Frustration vs. 240 HP / 72 Def Arceus-Ground: 201-237 (45.5 - 53.7%) -- 40.2% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pinsirite Landorus-Therian: 304-360 (95.2 - 112.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
0 SpA Arceus-Ground Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Salamencite Landorus-Therian: 332-392 (104 - 122.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Groundceus will always be able to come in and either recover off the damage from frustration or dissuade a Landorus that boosted on the switch with Ice Beam.
252 Atk Aerilate Landorus-Therian Explosion vs. 240 HP / 72 Def Arceus-Ground: 492-579 (111.5 - 131.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Aerilate Salamencite Landorus-Therian Explosion vs. 240 HP / 72 Def Arceus-Ground: 448-528 (101.5 - 119.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Sure Explosion kills your groundceus but the threat of the Landorus-t will be gone, hopefully you didn't need groundceus to take care of another threat elsewhere if this happens.

The same damage calcs from earlier apply here, obviously if groundceus gets a calm mind off OHKOs will happen more but you still take big damage if you switch in and you still cannot beat Ho-oh.

Overall Arceus-Ground is a good mon with a handful of different sets that each do different things, the beauty of it all is that you can adjust the spread and moves to suit your team a lot better than some other mons in the tier simply because it is an Arceus. It has a fantastic movepool and you can run all sorts of stuff from the aforementioned sets, lures like Grass Knot ;) or Fire Blast, Swords Dance Groundium Z Earthquake, Stealth Rock sets, you name it! That's the beauty of Mix and Mega, you can adjust the set of a mon to suit the team needs to great degrees just by changing the megastone, you just gotta remember that what you gain in ability in one area you lose out on your ability to do other stuff elsewhere. Even though it can't mega evolve, groundceus is no exception.

Small edit: The 16 speed evs on the defensive set allows you to outpace non speed boosting nature base 90 speed mons such as the Primals, Reshiram/Zekrom, Giratina, Ho-oh, Deo-d, etc. You don't lose out on anything important by giving up 12 HP evs
 
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There's a Pokemon in your signature that could patch that, in one form or another anyways.


All Shuckle get 3ko'd by Seismic Toss. Several setup sweepers are either immune to Toxic by typing, Magic Bounce or by setting up a Substitute. Finally, breaking 20/255/250 isn't monumentally difficult, especially as your set doesn't have HP investment; Lucarionite and Diancite Terrakion immediately come to mind as it has Swords Dance to boost faster that Contrary Smash and doesn't even need to hit super effectively.

As for Carvahna... have you noticed how there are BARELY any Banettite users outside the odd Breloom? 99/100 times you're better off actively checking whatever is attempting to threaten your team, and the 1 time is whenever you run into some abstract shitpost you couldn't have possibly prepared for.
Yeah, but with very little staller teams arounds nowadays, Seismic Toss isn't currently used that often. Not to say it won't be dangerous, but it's still rarely used. As of the Toxic immunity, Shuckle can have something like Protect replaced with Gastro Acid to immediately bypass Magic Bounce Pokemon. Toxic is just for speeding up the stalling process; it can PP stall with Rest's sleep-inducing ability. As of Terrakion, Shuckle does have the potential to stall it provided it can keep the opponent's attacks weak enough for Shuckle to repeatedly Rest-stall.

Also, I forgot to mention that the Carvanha set was purely for fun, and not to be used competitively unless you're going for a meme team or making an LC MnM tournament.
 
Yeah, but with very little staller teams arounds nowadays, Seismic Toss isn't currently used that often. Not to say it won't be dangerous, but it's still rarely used. As of the Toxic immunity, Shuckle can have something like Protect replaced with Gastro Acid to immediately bypass Magic Bounce Pokemon. Toxic is just for speeding up the stalling process; it can PP stall with Rest's sleep-inducing ability. As of Terrakion, Shuckle does have the potential to stall it provided it can keep the opponent's attacks weak enough for Shuckle to repeatedly Rest-stall.

Also, I forgot to mention that the Carvanha set was purely for fun, and not to be used competitively unless you're going for a meme team or making an LC MnM tournament.
im tired of letting discussions like this go on for as long as they do
A) you can’t use Gastro Acid against Pokemon with Magic Bounce
B) This set is just bad in every aspect: It doesnt wall anything you say it does nor any Pokemon commonly used realistically, and it can’t do anything vs poisons, steels, or magic bouncers except get set up on
C) just no this is bad
The only good Shuckle set that will ever exist is the Ampharosite/Gyaradosite web setter. Period.
im not even gonna comment on the fish because that obviously just a meme
 
im tired of letting discussions like this go on for as long as they do
A) you can’t use Gastro Acid against Pokemon with Magic Bounce
B) This set is just bad in every aspect: It doesnt wall anything you say it does nor any Pokemon commonly used realistically, and it can’t do anything vs poisons, steels, or magic bouncers except get set up on
C) just no this is bad
The only good Shuckle set that will ever exist is the Ampharosite/Gyaradosite web setter. Period.
im not even gonna comment on the fish because that obviously just a meme
Ok, fine, the Shuckle set is bad. At least you appreciate the fact that Carvanha is a joke Pokémon. Ok, discussion over.
 
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Meloetta Pirouette can't gain mega stat boosts, it returns to normal form when it evolves. Having it transform again after evolving gives it pre-mega stats.

I understand if this isn't super high priority lol, but thought I'd bring it up anyway.

Edit: That's too bad, Lopunnite Meloetta-P looked spicy.

Thanks for the quick response, though.
 
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Chloe

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Meloetta Pirouette can't gain mega stat boosts, it returns to normal form when it evolves. Having it transform again after evolving gives it pre-mega stats.

I understand if this isn't super high priority lol, but thought I'd bring it up anyway.
These are intended mechanics. Mega formes cannot be based off of alternate in-game forme changes and hence the Pokemon reverts.

Chloedit: Also, added this to FAQ since it's asked frequently.
 

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