M&M Mix and Mega

BoltBurst

formerly Minior=god tier
What do you think about this one?
Slugger 2.0 (Gastrodon-East) @ Heracronite
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stockpile
- Recover
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
It's an amped up version of the Slugger set from Showderp. This guy's like Wobbuffet in that he is meant to counter. However, despite the lower HP, he's MUCH better at this job, as he can reliably recover with...well, Recover, buff up his defenses with Stockpile, and with the Heracronite, both defenses are buffed up even MORE, making it so that he can Counter/Mirror Coat the enemy to death and is as big a damage sponge as Toxapex.
 

xavgb

EVs: 20 HP / 20 Def / 240 SpA / 116 SpD / 112 Spe
is a Pre-Contributor
What do you think about this one?
Slugger 2.0 (Gastrodon-East) @ Heracronite
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stockpile
- Recover
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
It's an amped up version of the Slugger set from Showderp. This guy's like Wobbuffet in that he is meant to counter. However, despite the lower HP, he's MUCH better at this job, as he can reliably recover with...well, Recover, buff up his defenses with Stockpile, and with the Heracronite, both defenses are buffed up even MORE, making it so that he can Counter/Mirror Coat the enemy to death and is as big a damage sponge as Toxapex.
Unfortunately sets like this simply don't work, since every single team has counterplay to this in the form of repeatedly switching until gastrodon runs out of pp, regardless of whether the mons can actually 2HKO gastrodon. Even if you try and get up hazards to stop the switching, most teams can still just switch to their defogger and remove the hazards so that they can switch stall. Also this set is prone to toxic and taunt, which gives most teams a way to kill it immediately if they don't want to waste their time.

May edit in some stuff about the metagame later.
 
What do you think about this one?
Slugger 2.0 (Gastrodon-East) @ Heracronite
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stockpile
- Recover
- Mirror Coat
- Counter
It's an amped up version of the Slugger set from Showderp. This guy's like Wobbuffet in that he is meant to counter. However, despite the lower HP, he's MUCH better at this job, as he can reliably recover with...well, Recover, buff up his defenses with Stockpile, and with the Heracronite, both defenses are buffed up even MORE, making it so that he can Counter/Mirror Coat the enemy to death and is as big a damage sponge as Toxapex.
This set would be WAY better with Sablenite. It gains +50 to both defenses and also gains Magic Bounce, preventing it from being affected by Status or Taunt unless the opponent has Mold Breaker. However, there are still some flaws. This set is really easy to set up on, which lets your opponent potentially sweep your entire team. Overall, I would say the set is a bit gimmicky even with Sablenite. With Heracronite it is not even close to worth using. Why would you want Skill Link and +60 Atk?
 

xavgb

EVs: 20 HP / 20 Def / 240 SpA / 116 SpD / 112 Spe
is a Pre-Contributor
Disclaimer: I suck at writing but i bottled up my opinions for too long and the result is a ~2500 word likely disaster. The first half of this post showcases some cool sets, the second half is a bunch of my opinions about the metagame and potential suspects. Also i spent way too long doing this and am kinda tired so towards the end my opinions aren't fully fleshed out, but i may come back and edit the reasoning to be clearer if i feel it needs to be. I'm sorry about this guys.

Okay since these threads are quite dead and it would be nice to have some actual discussion on here, i'm going to make a new post instead of editing the old one like i said i might, so uh here's sets ig.

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Mew @ Altarianite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Return
- Explosion
- Tailwind/Taunt

Lead mew. This set serves a few niches over a similar srock+boom alt lando set. Firstly it has base 100 speed which allows it to outspeed mons that put themselves at 310 for alt lando s.uch as arceus and manectite mew, meaning that it can stealth rock and then explode before they can defog or attack you. Secondly, it has access to both tailwind and taunt. Tailwind is slashed first here for the utility it provides after mew uses explosion, even one remaining turn is enough for a mon to gain a winning matchup and thus also gain momentum (for example, if mew uses explosion two turns after it uses tailwind, and both sides go down, there will be a play involved in who gets the winning 1-on-1 matchup and forces the other out. Normally if the mew player went to their blastrai and the opponent went to kartana, they would be at a disadvantage since kartana normally beats blastrai, but if there's one turn left of tailwind kartana ends up losing and would have to switch out, meaning that the incoming mon would have to take a powerful dark pulse). Taunt is also another option, since it can prevent opposing rocks for mons such as lunala and also defog and recover in matchups against fatter teams, where the mew may want to preserve its nuke for later when mons that take explosion well such as skarmory are removed. Lastly, mew benefits from the fact that it runs other sets more commonly in this meta such as manectite, allowing it to lure mons such as darkrai and mandibuzz when dark pulse and u-turn respectively would normally be safe clicks. To take full advantage of mew's unpredictability, it would be advisable to not have mew in the first slot of the team, since having a mew in the first slot with 5 offensive mons following behind it may give your opponent a clue as to which set you're running.

This mew set pairs particularly well with a few common HO picks. Lunala as mentioned earlier takes advantage of mew's ability to set up stealth rock on any team that chooses to use mandibuzz as its bouncer, meaning that mandibuzz is also pressured as one of a handful of lunala switchins in the current meta. It could also potentially lure darkrai or weaken sablenite magearna into range of +1 z, stopping them from checking lunala effectively, and taunt variants can prevent rocks from going up which preserves lunala's shadow shield, making it much harder to check. Kartana also benefits from this, as most of its checks are either weak to rocks or are steel types, which are also the primary switchins for altarianite explosion. In the same vein, pinsirite magearna can beat some extra mons when stealth rock goes up whilst also having explosion to further pressure steel types and again prevent defog.



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Milotic @ Ampharosite
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover
- Haze

This set provides a niche on balance teams for its ability to check primal kyogre and cameruptite magearna together in one slot, as well as manaphy and some defensive mons without suffering from a lack of recovery like pdon or having to sack in situations where pogre gets to come in after your red orber. Scald is the STAB of choice for its ability to burn and also thaw itself from freezes by pogre's ice beam, toxic is for mold breaker status which milotic can easily spread against a lot of teams due to common steel types disliking the burn or in the case of blue orb skarmory, simply being 2HKOed. Haze allows milotic to remove boosts from cam mage and pogre, and it can also stop other specially-based mons from setting up on milotic, especially if they took a toxic on the switch in. This means that only a select few mons can come in safely on milotic and threaten it out, such as pdon, whilst other mons that kill it dislike coming in on its attacks (altarianite lando and terrakion take heavy damage from scald and also risk being burned, whilst other mons need their longevity to break teams so can't even afford to come in on a toxic). It is also worth noting that milotic can often also play quite aggressively in order to punish these switchins because it can still check both ogre and magearna even when chipped to 60 percent hp, so it doesn't need to click recover as often as other defensive mons (252+ SpA Sheer Force Magearna Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Milotic: 95-112 (24.1 - 28.4%) -- 96.9% chance to 4HKO).

Overall this mon won't be an ideal fit for the majority of teams, but it can be very important to the few teams where it does fit. The main individual mon that appreciates milotic's support is offensive pdon, either rock polish or mixed sd variants, since they don't run spdef investment and therefore cannot take on either pogre or magearna very well. pogre can also come in on their fire moves and potentially disrupt their momentum, leaving them scrambling for a switchin to a rain boosted origin pulse/water spout. Milotic also fits well on teams that are prone to repeatedly letting pogre in, since replacing milotic with a pdon in those situations would eventually lead to pdon being pressured to death by ice beam and also other teammates (Here is an example of a team that effectively overwhelms pdon by taking advantage of it needing to switch into multiple mons whilst not having recovery). Milotic also appreciates teammates that can switch into pinsirite mage, so rockceus in particular is a great option, whilst it also takes on ho-oh which may try to absorb a toxic with the help of regen and retaliate with a powerful brave bird.

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Moltres @ Sablenite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp/Defog

Sablenite moltres' niche in the meta is to bounce stealth rock from the two most common rockers in the current metagame, defensive pdon and altarianite lando-t, as well as most of the more passive rockers that are used such as fairyceus. Its typing also allows it to take on threats such as necrozma-dusk-mane, kartana and cm groundceus, whilst spreading toxic against more offensive teams that lack sablenite or a blue orb steel. The choice between will-o-wisp and defog depends on how confident you are in getting your mega off quickly, since defog isn't necessary if you can get your moltres mega evolved before they get the chance to set rocks. I slashed will-o-wisp first because moltres actually has very good bulk and can even mega on the likes of pinsirite zeraora if it has to, either clicking roost or crippling it with wisp and living the next hit (252 Atk Zeraora Plasma Fists vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Moltres: 200-236 (52.2 - 61.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO).

Obviously, even if it does prevent most rockers from setting rocks, it is still 4 times weak to them, so it appreciates support that beats the less common rockers in the tier, particuarly sd sr pdon. Defog salamencite lando-t is a nice fit for this role, since it can use its speed to defog for moltres if it doesn't mega in time or if it faces webs, and it also beats sd sr pdon whilst not being as passive as most other defoggers. Another big weakness of moltres is that it lets in pogre pretty easily, so milotic is actually appreciated as a teammate here. Another pairing that can work, but is still a bit risky is sablenite moltres+cm groundceus, which allows moltres to act as an alt zyg switchin by burning it and then switching to groundceus to remove it with ice beams(normally groundceus would lose since +1 return just about 2HKOes). Moltres also covers for groundceus being a shaky defensive don check, and also covers kartana since you can't use another arceus forme to check it.

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Kartana @ Metagrossite/Lucarionite
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Synthesis/Defog

I'll only talk about this set briefly because this is also a placeholder for me to talk about my thoughts on kart in general in the metagame, but the defog variant is an offensive defogger that responds to alt lando in particular, by threatening it out with both STABs and defogging when it sets up rocks, whilst the synthesis variant aims to be a long-term alt zyg check that can offensively threaten the likes of terrakion and darkrai and stop them from using any mon that beats alt zyg as bait. The defog variant can also run pinsirite which i think has already been brought up in this thread, but metagrossite kart can also check alt zyg and hit mage harder, in trade for the surprise factor and extra power of return against other targets such as noivern and ho-oh. Defog kart fits neatly with mandibuzz since it takes on the two main altarianite mons in zyg and lando and stops lando getting free rocks against teams with mandibuzz as their bouncer. Adamant metagrossite was slashed before jolly lucarionite here due to the extra spdef allowing it to live fleur cannons from pivot mage and also because lucarionite has much more use than metagrossite in the meta for other mons.

Overall I think that kartana is in a very strong place in the metagame right now, due to a nice speed tier that puts it above a lot of offensive mons and great synergy with a few other popular mons. For example, offensive teams looking to use darkrai or terrakion as their breaker have to prep for atespeed somehow, and kartana gives a very solid option against one half of altarianite espeed that allows the team to keep up their momentum, which is something that most altarianite zygarde answers can't do very well (i'll explain that later). Meanwhile kartana itself doesn't have many good offensive switchins, so most kart answers are at the mercy of well-built offensive cores that allow the kart user to get up stealth rock and pressure mons such as sablenite buzzwole (also an important switchin for rai/terrak), mandibuzz (used as a pivot for blastrai, also would be expected to answer lunala and pdon) and magearna (rai and a few other things such as lele). Between the potency of these cores on offensive teams, and the utility of a defog kartana on balance teams for its ability to help with alt lando and tspikes (forgot to mention this earlier and now don't know where to fit it in ffs), I believe that kartana is stronger than it has been in the meta for quite a while.

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Zygarde @ Altarianite
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return
- Extreme Speed
- Thousand Arrows

Just a reminder that altarianite zygarde does not have to be simple max speed max attack dd, these bulky sets actually allow you to take two ice beams from the likes of arceus, mew and lunala which can be very important, whereas max speed mostly isn't necessary, since you'll still get outsped by dia lele unless you give up power and go jolly. 176 hp is to take 4 seismic tosses from blissey, rest is pumped into spdef for better bulk setting up and muscling through things in general. It may also seem weird that i'm bringing this up as a strong mon in the meta, but i've noticed that people have given up on a lot of solid checks to this mon such as aggronite buzzwole and wisp arceus, and replaced them with less solid checks (aka ice beam it and pray, as well as lando and pray). As a result of this zygarde can normally play two of three roles in any one game, between revenge killing threatening wallbreakers(and occasionally hard switching into them), breaking early game, and cleaning late game. Whilst zygarde is still limited by the fact that it can't realistically perform all three, it can still often manage two which is in itself incredible. If there's a time to pick up this mon, it would probably be right now, everything apart from kartana is going for it.

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Darkrai @ Diancite
Ability: Bad Dreams
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Thunder

This one is a placeholder for my thoughts about a potential rai suspect, but also one of the sets that could potentially pose a problem (also considered putting ice beam red orb and taunt blastrai on here). As it stands, I am still fairly comfortable prepping for rai (at least as comfortable as prepping for any A+ rank mon should be), since the lure factor can be avoided whilst building defensively. Blastoisinite and diancite darkrai have shared counterplay defensively (pivot mage, sab buzz, not using certain mons that blastrai can use as a free switchin and instead making it sacrifice most of its hp preventing it from setting up repeatedly). Blastoisinite and red orb rai on the other hand have shared offensive counterplay, they're outsped and killed by the same mons with the exception of atespeed if darkrai somehow stays at full. Notably terrak can switch into both red orb and blastrai and retaliate with powerful attacks that the rest of the team will struggle with. However, if people branch out to using more sets/coverage options on rai i could definitely see this becoming a problem to deal with in any way that doesn't involve offensively pressuring it.

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Finally my opinion on mage. I think that whilst mage is one of, if not the most versatile mon in the metagame, it can still be narrowed down into its coverage options, and there's a good few offensive cores in the current meta that can abuse mage's lack of reliable recovery and its inability to run all of its coverage moves at once. Offensive teams are pressured the most by boltbeam out of any coverage option since they can't switch in their grounds to kill it, but boltbeam variants also lose to blastrai with focus blast or taunt, as well as cm luc lele, raikou, various steels and other mons that can check mage enough times for the cores to overwhelm it. Sharing mage's roles with another steel makes it tough to prep for pdon and luc zyg, and then in turn other mons once that's sorted, and it also takes away from a large point of using mage in the first place, since reducing the amount of roles it needs to perform only leads to it getting fewer opportunities to throw off attacks and damage the opposing team. Whilst the versatility can be dangerous, certain sets are still checkable by some mons even when mage is allowed to setup based off a wrong initial switch. For example, if ho-oh switches in and mage happens to be pinsirite and clicks return or shift gear, from a building perspective there's still the option to bring a zapdos or a rockceus which will still check the mage even after wasting a turn. Also two of the most common bulky mons in the meta, def pdon and sab mage(mentioning mage here because sab is absolutely a healthy presence for the metagame regardless of the fact that it's a mage), both scout out mage's set and make it difficult for it to claim any damage on it at all without revealing its set so that it can be dealt with appropriately.
 
team dumperoni
Gastrodon-East @ Sablenite
Ability: Storm Drain
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Earth Power
- Scald
- Toxic
- Recover

Ho-Oh @ Choice Band
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 0
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Frustration
- Brave Bird
- Sacred Fire
- Earthquake

Mantine @ Audinite
Ability: Water Absorb
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Scald
- Defog
- Roost

Arceus-Ground @ Groundium Z
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 68 SpA / 188 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Recover

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform

Zygarde-Complete @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Power Construct
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 112 HP / 56 Atk / 88 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Thousand Waves
- Coil
- Rest
 
can we do something about explosion? its a busted move that no one really talks about. with the stab and ate boost it gets, its total power would be 425 which is just absolutely fuckin nuts. ofc some people might think that since it kills the user too, the trade off makes it balanced, but thats a foolish way of thinking.

to sum it up quickly, it lets u kill or cripple walls eith ez while stopping possible uturn or defogs from the opposition + a free switch in for the next mon which gives or continues ur momentum. Having 2 explosion mon, or even just 1 + a cleaner that happens to be weak to similar walls is all you pretty much need.

Due to how strong and versatile offensive mons are in mnm, most defensive cores usually rely on typing rather than just pure bulk since it allows one to cover more (except vs sp attackers, since bliss). that is why most HOs usually got more than 1 mons that attack the same type of walls, for example Pins mage and sala lando. this strat makes sense for offense since the amount of mons u hit naturally and super effectively is way more than the ones that resist u. The usual counter play against this strat is to preserve ur wall and try to let ur other mons to chip/status one of em, so u arent overwhelmed. This counter-play is absolutely useless vs an offensive core that got explosion, because even if lando/pins in this scenario been chipped or statused, the wall u tried to preserve could still take an extreme amount of damage due to explosion and now ur in some fun 50/50 turns. Getting 2 walls that check the same type of mon ESPECIALLY when one of em has explosion is just simply not possible cause u cant afford it. If u do get an additional mon that walls, lets say both pins mage and sala lando, it will hurt ur team and make other match ups way worse.......when it comes to trade games, HO will always benefit from it cause they can get rid of that 1 mon that walls the rest of the team while getting a free switch in.

one of the better arguments against this is that people could just predict the explosion. This might be true but the attacker has way more opportunity. Most defensive mons are not able to ohko the shit its supposed wall and is also slower than them... hence why they need to get 50/50s correctly right from the get go. Offensive mons such as gross, mage, lando and mew can afford not explode right away because of that. tho they could just explode right there and then, and just take something else out with em regardless of its health that happens to wall/annoy another mon in their team, therefor giving them an additional way to victory, but thats irrelevant for this point

also i heard one of the council member saying that the problem mostly lies with the mon that gets explosion, not the move itself which is meh
Any mon that has a 100+ base attack is able to abuse this broken ass move.
a good example would be this wcop game https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-833056902
as u can see, at turn 12, a mew is able to just set up tailwind and kill a MAX def arceus at 72% while allowing the next mon to come in freely. ofc the fact that mons like lando and pins get explosion just makes the move even bigger of a threat, but at the end of the day, the problem is not mostly on the abuser.

Stall has literally no counter play, except to outpredict the fuck out of the opponent or try to risk mu and get multiple ate checks which jsut encourages mnm to be even more mu based. People keep telling me to run multiple ate checks cause thats just how the meta is, which i dont really disagree with, but there is a difference between packing for some espeeder and for a powerhouse like lando or some other shit with explosion. Balance will of course have an easier time due to their offense but that rarely saves them. Balance will have a more fragile def core than stall so explosion will obv have an even easier time to just create holes. Since offensive cores meant to compliment the def core, u not gonna necessarily have the perfect mon to revenge kill the opposition after ur wall has been taken down(also most explosion mons got insane bulk). i saw someone writing that if a wall has been taken down to 10% due to explosion, you would be forced to finish it off before it can defog or recover, which would stop the momentum and allow the opponent to bring in their own offense. If a wall has been taken down to 10%, any mon could finish it off at that point which gives u the option to create the ideal matchup for the situation.... because lets not assume that the 1 or 2 mons balance has for its offense is able to annoy an ho that badly

HO is dominating mnm rn, which happens to be the best way to stop opposing explosion, but that shit still dismantles all def cores what so ever which is super gay and broke.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-822857873 explosion just giving free momentum for days vs balance. lando was able to play with explosion for quite a while cause skarm couldnt do much to it. u dont necessarly have to utilize the 2 ate mons you have all the time. explosion could jsut simply give a free set up to one of ur other mons.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-822853107 once again explosion dismantling another balance, which allowed the rest of the team to sweep

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-819500569 explosion being the mvp again

and the one earlier skysolo vs chazm. chazm lost that 1 but if not for his choke, he had that game
 
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can we do something about explosion? its a busted move that no one really talks about. with the stab and ate boost it gets, its total power would be 425 which is just absolutely fuckin nuts. ofc some people might think that since it kills the user too, the trade off makes it balanced, but thats a foolish way of thinking.

to sum it up quickly, it lets u kill or cripple walls eith ez while stopping possible uturn or defogs from the opposition + a free switch in for the next mon which gives or continues ur momentum. Having 2 explosion mon, or even just 1 + a cleaner that happens to be weak to similar walls is all you pretty much need.

Due to how strong and versatile offensive mons are in mnm, most defensive cores usually rely on typing rather than just pure bulk since it allows one to cover more (except vs sp attackers, since bliss). that is why most HOs usually got more than 1 mons that attack the same type of walls, for example Pins mage and sala lando. this strat makes sense for offense since the amount of mons u hit naturally and super effectively is way more than the ones that resist u. The usual counter play against this strat is to preserve ur wall and try to let ur other mons to chip/status one of em, so u arent overwhelmed. This counter-play is absolutely useless vs an offensive core that got explosion, because even if lando/pins in this scenario been chipped or statused, the wall u tried to preserve could still take an extreme amount of damage due to explosion and now ur in some fun 50/50 turns. Getting 2 walls that check the same type of mon ESPECIALLY when one of em has explosion is just simply not possible cause u cant afford it. If u do get an additional mon that walls, lets say both pins mage and sala lando, it will hurt ur team and make other match ups way worse.......when it comes to trade games, HO will always benefit from it cause they can get rid of that 1 mon that walls the rest of the team while getting a free switch in.

one of the better arguments against this is that people could just predict the explosion. This might be true but the attacker has way more opportunity. Most defensive mons are not able to ohko the shit its supposed wall and is also slower than them... hence why they need to get 50/50s correctly right from the get go. Offensive mons such as gross, mage, lando and mew can afford not explode right away because of that. tho they could just explode right there and then, and just take something else out with em regardless of its health that happens to wall/annoy another mon in their team, therefor giving them an additional way to victory, but thats irrelevant for this point

also i heard one of the council member saying that the problem mostly lies with the mon that gets explosion, not the move itself which is meh
Any mon that has a 100+ base attack is able to abuse this broken ass move.
a good example would be this wcop game https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-833056902
as u can see, at turn 12, a mew is able to just set up tailwind and kill a MAX def arceus at 72% while allowing the next mon to come in freely. ofc the fact that mons like lando and pins get explosion just makes the move even bigger of a threat, but at the end of the day, the problem is not mostly on the abuser.

Stall has literally no counter play, except to outpredict the fuck out of the opponent or try to risk mu and get multiple ate checks which jsut encourages mnm to be even more mu based. People keep telling me to run multiple ate checks cause thats just how the meta is, which i dont really disagree with, but there is a difference between packing for some espeeder and for a powerhouse like lando or some other shit with explosion. Balance will of course have an easier time due to their offense but that rarely saves them. Balance will have a more fragile def core than stall so explosion will obv have an even easier time to just create holes. Since offensive cores meant to compliment the def core, u not gonna necessarily have the perfect mon to revenge kill the opposition after ur wall has been taken down(also most explosion mons got insane bulk). i saw someone writing that if a wall has been taken down to 10% due to explosion, you would be forced to finish it off before it can defog or recover, which would stop the momentum and allow the opponent to bring in their own offense. If a wall has been taken down to 10%, any mon could finish it off at that point which gives u the option to create the ideal matchup for the situation.... because lets not assume that the 1 or 2 mons balance has for its offense is able to annoy an ho that badly

HO is dominating mnm rn, which explosion happens to hate but it dismantles all def cores what so ever which is super gay and broke.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-822857873 explosion just giving free momentum for days vs balance. lando was able to play with explosion for quite a while cause skarm couldnt do much to it. u dont necessarly have to utilize the 2 ate mons you have all the time. explosion could jsut simply give a free set up to one of ur other mons.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-822853107 once again explosion dismantling another balance, which allowed the rest of the team to sweep

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-819500569 explosion being the mvp again

and the one earlier skysolo vs chazm. chazm lost that 1 but if not for his choke, he had that game
no.
since he wanted an explanation as to why he doesn't deserve a response i'll just point out the irony of huge paragraphs he writes about me all the time
fardinLast Tuesday at 5:16 PM
Andy
thoughts on players(edited)

who blame the meta being shit when they cant build a consistent team?
AndyLast Tuesday at 5:19 PM
well.... frustration is definitely a thing I've been very frustrated with the meta myself on the regular when I can't build well... so I try to be understanding ig
fardinLast Tuesday at 5:21 PM
fair
but u still come up with some solid shit
regardless
which is nice
i hate people who just shit on the meta cause they are too garb to build anything good
than pass it off as if its just the current meta, not them
AndyLast Tuesday at 5:25 PM
well mnm is frustrating to build consistently in rn... even people like Jordan and Geerat and yourself who are clearly great OM players and builders are frustrated covering all the threats and niches right now. It's really tough I can get why some would be annoyed and call this meta trash... But yeah I love mnm and will obviously try my best to build nice stuff(edited)
fardinLast Tuesday at 5:26 PM
hm
from my experience
mnm is just a tiny bit harder
altho due to the amount stones
there are many more possible threats
offensivly there are a few that stands out
which can handle em
AndyLast Tuesday at 5:27 PM
well there's still niche mons that can catch you off guard when you think you have things covered like pins kart or noivern or such
that's what bothers me when I try to build
fardinLast Tuesday at 5:27 PM
this consistency issue mostly lies with defensive teams
yh thats fair but good offenses dont get too surprised
by em
its always mostly bulky teams
AndyLast Tuesday at 5:29 PM
yeah but... offenses can have problems too especially if your opponent knows it's coming and preps... it's tough to be consistent but still a fun meta for me
fardinLast Tuesday at 5:31 PM
fair point
many niche stuff that can work
but when u just straight up lose to quite a few common shit that isnt rare(edited)
and blame it on the meta
quite sad. i wouldnt want them in a position where they got some power over the meta
scary

fardinToday at 8:58 PM
Chloe im on a mission to make mnm great again
first step is council
gimmie
 
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no.
since he wanted an explanation as to why he doesn't deserve a response i'll just point out the irony of huge paragraphs he writes about me all the time
fardinLast Tuesday at 5:16 PM
Andy
thoughts on players(edited)

who blame the meta being shit when they cant build a consistent team?
AndyLast Tuesday at 5:19 PM
well.... frustration is definitely a thing I've been very frustrated with the meta myself on the regular when I can't build well... so I try to be understanding ig
fardinLast Tuesday at 5:21 PM
fair
but u still come up with some solid shit
regardless
which is nice
i hate people who just shit on the meta cause they are too garb to build anything good
than pass it off as if its just the current meta, not them
AndyLast Tuesday at 5:25 PM
well mnm is frustrating to build consistently in rn... even people like Jordan and Geerat and yourself who are clearly great OM players and builders are frustrated covering all the threats and niches right now. It's really tough I can get why some would be annoyed and call this meta trash... But yeah I love mnm and will obviously try my best to build nice stuff(edited)
fardinLast Tuesday at 5:26 PM
hm
from my experience
mnm is just a tiny bit harder
altho due to the amount stones
there are many more possible threats
offensivly there are a few that stands out
which can handle em
AndyLast Tuesday at 5:27 PM
well there's still niche mons that can catch you off guard when you think you have things covered like pins kart or noivern or such
that's what bothers me when I try to build
fardinLast Tuesday at 5:27 PM
this consistency issue mostly lies with defensive teams
yh thats fair but good offenses dont get too surprised
by em
its always mostly bulky teams
AndyLast Tuesday at 5:29 PM
yeah but... offenses can have problems too especially if your opponent knows it's coming and preps... it's tough to be consistent but still a fun meta for me
fardinLast Tuesday at 5:31 PM
fair point
many niche stuff that can work
but when u just straight up lose to quite a few common shit that isnt rare(edited)
and blame it on the meta
quite sad. i wouldnt want them in a position where they got some power over the meta
scary

fardinToday at 8:58 PM
Chloe im on a mission to make mnm great again
first step is council
gimmie
What was the point of this?

I get it has been discussed extensively in the Discord already but a lot of that is airheaded and rushed, especially when it gets pretty heated which only leads to misunderstandings and poorly thought arguments.

Bringing the discussion here to the thread is a nice way of bumping it again without being obnoxious about it (I mean fardin actually took the time and effort to write over 1k words instead of the usual lazy one-liner) and give the people that aren't as active or at all involved in the MnM Discord an opportunity to read up the problem, formulate ideas and elaborate an argument.

As Tier Leader, Chloe has sparked discussion multiple times in the past, even when against, concerning a variety of different subjects, even when some were somewhat unreasonable.

So this kinda disappoints me. Your responsibility is not limited to council voting, but also leading discussion when there is sufficient reason to do so. And in this case, there really is.

I'm not as in touch with the meta to comment on Explosion itself as I've been straying away from MnM due to personally finding it increasingly boring/unfun (this doesn't mean the metagame itself is boring or unfun, I still love it, just not enjoying as much). Perhaps the subject at hand may even tie into this... but I haven't given it much thought. I agree with a lot of what Fardin said but really just came here to express this feeling.

Nothing personal Hills
I appreciate you as a player and as a chill person
Just think you needed a heads up regarding your new status
 
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HO is dominating mnm rn, which explosion happens to hate but it dismantles all def cores what so ever which is super gay and broke.
So HO is super fabulous and broke? COOL!

The other thing i will say is that unless the opponent creates a strange set, we know the pokemon that have explosion and that can be viable with an ate stone.
I personally don't see a huge problem. A little one, yeah, of course it can destroy your entire strategy and kill you and don't let you have fun.
 
Mix and Mega Teambuilding Challenges
Hello everyone! I'm going to be hosting a Weekly Challenge for Mix and Mega to spark more discussion in this thread!
Weekly Challenges will be posted every Monday, and for now it will consist of a Teambuilding Competition. Given more interest and if people submit some teams to me (feel free to pm me teams) some weeks we will be doing a Break This Team.


Week 1 Teambuilding Competition: Terrakion

SMaW9EN.gif

Week 1 will be based around one of the most potent but underappreciated threats in the metagame, Terrakion! Terrakion is a very strong physical sweeper and between it's Lucarionite and newly popularized Pinsirite sets, it has limited counter play. Your challenge this week is to build the best team you can with Terrakion, good luck!​
  • You have 1 week to create a team and explain why it is the best. A good team will preferably have been tested and while replays are no required, they are recommended.
  • Posting replays against unviable teams or people who clearly have no experience in Mix and Mega will hurt your team's case more than help it, so make sure to only post quality replays.
  • You will post your team with accompanying descriptions of how it works. This is not a full RMT but you should at least explain what the team does in a paragraph or so.
  • BUILD YOUR OWN TEAMS!!! I hope I never would need to actually enforce this rule but I guess it needs to be said.
  • Winners will be chosen by me/maybe some others on the council, and winners will be added to the Hall of Fame! Some weeks may have more than one winner if I feel that there are multiple very solid teams.
  • Don't bash other people's submissions, this is a competitive project but it is meant to be fun. Constructive criticism is allowed but needless insults aren't permitted.
  • On that note, be sure to have fun with this!! Creativity is encouraged but make sure your team is viable and handles the metagame properly
None yet!
 

https://pokepast.es/a2de1a02965c8b1c

Description + Weaknesses :
  • Frankly I had some difficulty trying to build with terrak's more standard sets, so Fardin's team actually gave me a neat idea of using Terrak as a cleaner, instead of the usual breaker rolls it employs. Though I don't feel it needs earthquake, and taunt can provide some insurance against turn 1 webs and stuff.
  • Basically the thought process was simple, Explosion Landorus isnt generally seen on bulkier builds, so using it to break through hard-walls like Buzz or what not, and eventually using kartana (Against bulkier builds) or Terrakion (Against more offensively inclined stuff) to pick up the pieces. Landorus specifically outspeeds lunala, even though I must admit if there is anything else I should aim for. Also it's mostly a personal preference, but I kept the kart jolly, since I myself felt a tad bit weak to Ada variants.
  • Now from the structure while I was pretty happy with the offensive presence I had on the team, I was still unsure on how to bring stuff on in general or get a turn of set-up, so I just went for the play-style I prefer aka Volt-turn. In-came Mandi, providing me with a slow u-turn + Defog + Something to absorb lunala z-move. Now naturally any team utilising mandi as a defogger, ends up being weak to alt lando, henceforth next step was completing the volt -turn core with Lati Mage, contrary to the more common Calm Mind sets. I was adamant on having Volt Switch here since the last thing I wanted was to give Ho-oh a free switch-in.
  • And in the end to wrap up your defensive core + giving sometime to ward off entei - well surprise we have Pdon. Now according to our Pdon set, Mag can vary. Rest Pdon looks good on paper for the team, but unfortunately it makes it a momentum drain. Other options include Smackdown which is actually quite nice, I am finding as it doesnt allow stuff like defensive ho-oh to defog on you. Hell even SD + Fire Punch works, just something that doesnt make you passive.
  • Main Weaknesses : Primary one is Ogre coming on Pdon, best you can do is play aggressively against it, or pick your fodder. Another being Entei with Pdon weakened, luckily with the good sala boost, lando takes even +1 entei comfortably. Webs match-up is kinda iffy, it can be made better by making kart pins to create a sort of flying spam, at the cost of worsening your entei/alt-zyg match up a tad bit.
 
Some nice teams so far.... though personally, Blissey isn't quite my style, and slamming the offense threats we usually see together well, while effective, is not what I go around doing.

Sometimes to get what you want, you have to search the dim light of back alleys lit by only the pale moonlight to find troublemakers and brawlers that rip teams up in their own special way. With this out of the way, I present to you all my newest team.... RINGSIDE. (In a spoiler tag, because I don't want to clutter this page too much)

Beast o' Beckam (Terrakion) @ Pinsirite
Ability: Justified
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Frustration
- Swords Dance
- Quick Attack

"In this corner, we have a titan of a man, weighing over 300 pounds, and he'll smash anything that stands in his way. Don't let that size fool you, he's far more agile than he looks! Give it up for the BEAST OF BECKAM!"

With Terrakion, I decided to take up the mantle of using the Pinsirite variant. It definitely has some positives when compared to Lucarionite Terrakion; dodges Ground moves, which is especially relevant with Pdon, which turns a bad matchup into a free turn, better durability versus -ate speed dudes, the ability to decimate most Buzzwole variants that dare think they can take on a Flying move, and for this set, priority. I opted for dual STAB over Earthquake or Close Combat because incapacitating something like a Ho-oh right out of the gate is pretty valuable, and while you can easily do that when boosted.. you won't always have an SD under your belt. As for the Steel weakness this opens up against Terrakion, most of them get smacked anyways, and those that don't will get smacked... by hot fire.

Burning Simon (Raikou) @ Red Orb
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Weather Ball
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Toxic

"Oh, and here comes Burning Simon! He's always on fire with his moves, and moves so fast that he's lightning in a bottle! Can this force of nature ever be stopped?"

The base offensive core of Raikou and Pinsirite Terrakion is needless to say terrifying for a ton of teams, especially ones made out of slowpokes. As long as you outpace the opposing threat with Raikou, you have a chance to lay down absolutely devastating Weather Balls down in the opponent's way. And for things you can't do that with, there's always either a chance to pivot or poisoning them. I'm glad I finally listened to the others telling me Toxic Raikou is a good idea... because it is!


Shady Deals (Krookodile) (F) @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 188 HP / 180 Def / 140 Spe
Impish Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Foul Play

"Hey, kid. You want some caaaaaannndy? I've got some stuff right here that'll make you mouth water from how divine this stuff tastes!"

The Taunt Revolution begins. So Krookodile is the beginning of a series that I'm going to kickstart where I go soul searching for a bunch of nice Taunt users that can shut down a variety of opposing leads. In most of these cases, they're going to be plausible leads of my own. The basis of this set is to Taunt an opposing lead if needed (especially Shuckle; that one is free to a Gyaradosite user), and then get your own rocks up. But there's some interesting role compression here; Krookodile outspeeds most Pdon variants with this spread, takes physical hits very well, and serves as a makeshift answer to certain out of control physical sweepers if you're really desperate. This is also the best thing to 1v1 Lunala on this team with full health, which is probably sad. Thankfully, this team has enough pressure to keep Stealth Rocks on their field for a good time to come.

Backroom Star (Starmie) @ Absolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rapid Spin
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Psyshock

"Behind every success story is someone from the backroom guiding them."

I decided my team was aggressively tilted enough that I didn't want a Defogger on my side. No. I wanted a Spinner. And Starmie's a fast enough one to make that work. With Absolite, Starmie is fast enough to do whatever it needs to, and has some acceptable bulk for a sweeper, too The moveset might be able to be improved with Psychic over Psyshock to deal with Pdon and other physical nusiences better, but both are pretty nice as STAB options. I also have Surf here because missing a Hydro Pump always stinks for me, and dealing a heavy blow to something is usually enough fr the rest of the squad to handle it. Starmie shines best at dealing with an opposing Landorus-Therian that attempt to lead against this team, as well.

ew, a face (Mew) @ Manectite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Soft-Boiled
- Volt Switch
- Toxic

"You see that guy? That's Space Orbit... he looks like another one of those baby faces to me." "Yeah, let's go kick his butt!"

Sometimes, you need a wall to handle the onslaught of -ate Speed users. This Mew does that wonderfully. Since I decided to not have a Defogger, this frees up Mew to do other things. Posioning the opposing threats puts them on a timer, and gives Mew a way to handle most non-Sablenite walls. Ice Beam is Ice Beam, and destroys Zygarde pretty well, and Volt Switch keeps your momentum, and brings one of the other more threatening sweepers in safely.

2furious (Genesect) @ Altarianite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Shift Gear
- Facade
- Blaze Kick

insert Fast and the Furious meme here

...While I could leave it at that, let me just explain this bug simply. It's an -ate speeder. It has Facade to punish those support Arceus that think they're so smart by burning you. Shift Gear helps turn this into a sweeping opportunity. Blaze Kick is for those Steel types, but will miss anyways when you need it to hit.

So that's the team. It's soft to Lunala and special attacks in general, but everything's moving so fast in this team, that momentum alone can usually carry this team home in a major way.There's also some Kartana issues, but Raikou and Genesect, along with the Mew backbone, should have that covered in most matches.

Also, here's some replays to prove this team's real, and not just some theory-crafted nonsense.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-824194147
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-824390827

Bonus replay: low ladder is not great at making a case for itself
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-824213038
 
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Eien

Archetype
is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis an official Team Rateris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Monotype Leader
Previous submissions are on the slower side, so I'll drop the HO team I just used against Andy in OM World Cup, which I think is fairly unique. I considered RMTing it but whatever you get a long post instead of a short RMT. It is what it is.


The team was built around the idea of Sub SD Lucarionite Terrakion being able to really punish slower balance with ridiculously powerful STAB attacks. I toyed around with a few other ideas that I won't reveal yet because WEST BEST is 2 weeks away from winning OM World Cup, but I really liked the idea of being able to sub up against stuff like Manectite Mew and Sablenite Mandibuzz, preventing annoying Altarianite Extreme Speed users from stopping Terrakion. In the game against Andy, this set really just showed off exactly what it can do. I subbed up freely against Andy's Mandibuzz and took out his own Terrakion instantly. He's lucky he got the Speed tie too because, if he didn't, I would have been able to get a second KO for free before being forced out.

Often, walls barely have enough damage to KO Terrakion (or break its Substitute), so to make it very easy to set up, I put on an Eien favorite: dual screens Deoxys-S. I don't think anyone even uses this Pokemon anymore after it was banned from using Mega Stones, but that suits me fine because I don't want one anyway. The spread allows Deoxys-S to still outspeed up to max Speed base 170s but importantly lets me survive a Blastoisinite Darkrai's Dark Pulse if I set up Light Screen, offering me an extra turn to set up Stealth Rock or Taunt. I really like the way this set synergizes with Terrakion's because Sub SD really punishes fat but has a lesser matchup against offense. That's where screens comes in, since many offense teams are going to naturally struggle when they need to do two times more damage than normal to get the KOs they need.

At this point, I realized I really wanted to just go absolutely all in on setup sweeper spam, making it very difficult for fatter teams to block every single one back to back. I noticed that in the current meta, Cloyster is actually lowkey a threat. With the help of screens, it can set up on a lot of offensive threats (and many defensive ones). At this point, it's pretty damn fast, outspeeding up to base 200s. This is backed up by its natural Defense being pretty amazing, making -ate Extreme Speed users incapable of revenge killing it easily (Altarianite Zygarde does like 70% without screens up, a meager 35% with them!). Of course, Red Orb users can stop Liquidation and resist Frustration... only to be straight up OHKOed by a most ridiculous Explosion that can even OHKO Sablenite Magearna. Defensive cores really don't stand much of a chance because worst case scenario, Cloyster is taking out someone when it goes down.

I slotted in offensive SD NDM here. I still wanted a bit more safety against -ate users, so it being a Steel-type fit right in. To really double up on beating fat, I went with a Sub SD set like Terrakion's, since it has ridiculous natural bulk and I can Substitute up as a Primal Groudon comes in, giving me the opportunity to scout its Speed tier and possibly 2HKO less bulky ones with Earthquake. Being able to wear down Primal Groudon is amazing for Cloyster, since fatter variants can actually survive the +2 Frustration if they're at full. I was a little tempted to use Ultra here actually, but I really wanted the Steel STAB to force out Fairy-types that actually tend to annoy my team so far (Altarianite, Magearna, etc.).

Speaking of Magearna, I knew I wanted it here. Having two Steel-types is so great for HO, since I really don't have many options when it comes to switching in. It also gives me a strong Darkrai counter, which my team could handle but I was not at all confident without something more reliable. Even though Magearna has tons of sets, Trick Room was easily the most tempting of them. I had fat teams on lock with Terrakion and Cloyster and what better way to lock down opposing offense than with screens and Trick Room? With Trick Room, I knew most fast teams would already be stretched thin trying to beat Magearna, but screens only makes it even harder, since I can set up on almost anything for free and then threaten the sweep.

Finally, I refused to lose to some cheese like webs, so I needed some kind of removal. I decided on Landorus-T, since it turns out three Ground-weak Pokemon really would appreciate a Flying-type. My Defogger had to beat Primal Groudon one-on-one, as if Primal Groudon gets a Rock Polish, I literally lose on the spot right there. with 6 Pokemon that all get OHKOed by assorted moves. Landorus-T fit in pretty nicely, since it offered me a fairly bulky Defogger that had great offensive presence. Importantly, while most of my team can handle Steel-types, they're still really annoying for most of them, often being either unable to take a hit or being forced to use its non-primary attacking coverage moves. Landorus-T really helps out there, being able to force out most Steel-types and having a powerful Aerilate-boosted Frustration to smack whatever comes in.

Terrakion @ Lucarionite
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Stone Edge
- Close Combat
- Substitute

Deoxys-Speed @ Light Clay
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 248 HP / 84 SpD / 176 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock

Cloyster @ Glalitite
Ability: Overcoat
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shell Smash
- Liquidation
- Explosion
- Frustration

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Solganium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Sunsteel Strike
- Earthquake
- Substitute

Magearna @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

Landorus-Therian @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Frustration
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Defog
 
https://pokepast.es/3508441dfaf231e6 (Yes, I can build teams... sorta...)

Description: This team is built around Diancite Terrakion, which is a very potent wallbreaker in the MnM tier with two great stab moves. Stealth Rock on Terrakion to force common walls such as Blissey. Next mon is Arceus Ground, which is a very good Pdon and Magearna check. It has W-o-W to check mons like alt zyg, buzzwoles before they mega, and kartanas. Red Orb Raikou is another mon synergies well with Terrakion because its able to handle mons like skarm, buzzwole, and mew. it also acts as a check Primal Kyogre. Buzzwole acts as the Kartana check as well the Darkrai check to an extent. It also checks certain Altarinite and Glailite users. Mandibuzz is my sablenite user/Defog user, acts as a Spdef wall to Lunala and provides a pivoting move in U-turn which gives mons like Terrak or Raikou to wallbreak. Last mon is Golisopod, which acts as a ground resist to mons like Pdon/Groundceus, fire immunity which gives this mon free switch ins.
 
Congratulations to Eien for winning the first MnM Teambuilding Competition! Good job Eien!
Week 2: Tapus
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88C24F82-0181-45A5-94B5-73C4DCB0745A.gif
95D9C176-0013-4247-BA15-A0413EBA5FEA.gif

Week 2 will be based on a more broad topic: The Tapus! With Tapu Lele still being a formidable threat with its Diancite and Lucarionite sets, along with Tapu Koko being unranked in the last VR update still being a controversial topic that has sparked a lot of debate, I thought that these would be a good choice for this week. While Tapu Bulu and especially Tapu Fini may be less used and have very limited niches, don’t be afraid to try them as well! The challenge is to build a team with 1 or more of the Tapus on your team, good luck!
  • You have 1 week to create a team and explain why it is the best. A good team will preferably have been tested and while replays are no required, they are recommended.
  • Posting replays against unviable teams or people who clearly have no experience in Mix and Mega will hurt your team's case more than help it, so make sure to only post quality replays.
  • You will post your team with accompanying descriptions of how it works. This is not a full RMT but you should at least explain what the team does in a paragraph or so.
  • BUILD YOUR OWN TEAMS!!! I hope I never would need to actually enforce this rule but I guess it needs to be said.
  • Winners will be chosen by me/maybe some others on the council, and winners will be added to the Hall of Fame! Some weeks may have more than one winner if I feel that there are multiple very solid teams.
  • Don't bash other people's submissions, this is a competitive project but it is meant to be fun. Constructive criticism is allowed but needless insults aren't permitted.
  • On that note, be sure to have fun with this!! Creativity is encouraged but make sure your team is viable and handles the metagame properly

 
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MnM Teambuilding challenge In The Hills





Yeah, so I didn’t take part in the last one because I couldn’t be bothered, but Tapus seem cool, so I attempted it.





So, doing it with all of them seemed really hard, but I started off with Tapu Fini because she is my mother. Water / Fairy seemed an alright offensive typing, and looking at the Tapus this was the only one that could possibly check Pdon with Latiasite. One thing I don’t like about it is that it got no reliable recovery, so I was essentially forced to run Rest. Telepathy is so that Tapu Bulu can get his terrain without interfering other Tapus, Toxic is to touch Pdon, Defog because hazard and nature’s madness because reliable chip.


Tapu Fini @ Latiasite
Ability: Telepathy
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Toxic
- Nature's Madness
- Defog



Next Tapu up, Bulu. About a month and a half ago, I nommed it to C+ I think it was, showing a bunch of calls for Altarianite. But, for some reason, I wanted to buil stall, so I shoved a Sablenite on it and hoped. It checks some cool thing like non-Pins Terrak And Lucarionite Zygarde so I went for it. This is basically Aggronite Buzzwole but much worse and keeping with the Tapu theme. Bulk up to get a harder Wood Hammer, Wood Hammer to do some damage, Synthesis for recovery and Rock Slide to touch some Flying types like Ho-oh.


Tapu Bulu @ Sablenite
Ability: Grassy Surge
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Bulk Up
- Synthesis
- Rock Slide



Now Koko because I don’t like Tapu Lele. Koko is a very bad Pokemon with only slight niches in MnM. I said I was building stall, but there’s not a lot of point with Koko, its stall set I hate. So I stuck a Glalite to shocker Zygarde. I would put this set on Zera but :(. Volt Switch for pivot, Frustration because it’s an -ate stone, Wild Charge for STAB and Grass Knot to hit Pdon.


Tapu Koko @ Glalitite
Ability: Telepathy
Happiness: 0
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Frustration
- Wild Charge
- Volt Switch
- Grass Knot



Now I was almost done here with Tapus, I only had Lele to go. I liked the idea of Zephyr Dragon Lord about Taunt Mold Breaker leads, so I put Lele with Ampharosite Taunt and Toxic to destroy Blissey, Shuckle, and other Taunt leads while still hitting a hard Psychic with base 180 SpA stat. A cleric is also very useful to stall with only 1 Mbouncer.


Tapu Lele @ Ampharosite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 180 Def / 76 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Toxic
- Psychic
- Aromatherapy



Finally, I’ve done all the Tapus. The Magearna Matchup was trash, so I added the forgotten Red Orb Togekiss to my team (gonna nom that up soon tbh). It’s a decent set up abuser to punch holes in teams, its typing is quite good with the Water immunity, and a base 170 SpA stat is really cool as well.


Togekiss @ Red Orb
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Dazzling Gleam
- Nasty Plot
- Roost



Lastly, I realised that Lele is hardly an -ate check, so I searched for one. It is quite hard to find a decent Pokemon which is a reliable check to both Entei and Alt Zygarde, due to immense coverage between them, but I lastly settled on a Venusaurite Skarmory.


Skarmory @ Venusaurite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Whirlwind
- Stealth Rock



So that’s the team. I know I suck at building, but I did the best I could, and had fun while building. Please do mock the team and say what could be better. I will add replays as soon as I get any.

Wait a sec, are we allowed just one Tapu to build around?....
 
Luke Tapu Lele HO Webs

https://pokepast.es/6bbd8f5df704f8f0

Description: Ladies and Gentlemen, I have today a classic HO Webs style of team around mostly Tapu Lele with Lucarionite, which is a very potent wallbreaker in the MNM tier. It holds Taunt to stop defensive mons from getting rid of hazards/statusing the mons o your side of the field. Shuckle is always your main lead to get up Webs/Rocks for the rest of your mons to go ham against the opposing team. Encore is to stop mons from your opposing side from setting up in front of your face. Primal Groudon is the Mag check on the team and also gets rid of mons that are usually annoying for Lele to deal with such as Blissey, Magearna, Gyara Pex. Kartana is another fearsome mon to face under webs which can offensively check the majority of support Arceus formes and is also a key resistance to Pixilate ESpeed users such as Zygarde and Entei. Primal Kyogre is another fearsome wallbreaker with its CM + Water stab which not alot of mons like switching into this thing after a +1 CM Water Spout. Altarianite Zygarde is a great revenge killer wallbreaker which can check mons like darkrai, fighting types, and mons with low defense.
 
OK, so now after reading In The Hills post properly, I realised we only have to build round one. Well, here’s my team that I’m actually submitting. With a Tapu Lele.

So yeah, started off with Tapu Lele’s Classic Diancite set. Not much to say. Taunt to annoy webs, Nature’s madness to weaken foes for a Darkrai or Xerneas sweep, and Moonblast + Psychic as main STAB.

Tapu Lele @ Diancite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature's Madness
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Taunt

After that, I looked for Pokemon that can abuse Tapu Lele’s excellent ability: Psychic Surge. Darkrai was top of that list but I liked the idea of late-game Xerneas Sweeper. Moonblast for STAB, Thunder to hit Ho-oh and Primal-Kyogre, Grass Knot to kill Primal Groudon, and Geomancy because I’m not running choice.
Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 72 Def / 232 SpA / 204 Spe
Serious Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Grass Knot
- Thunder
- Geomancy

Why have just one sweeper that abuses Tapu Lele when you can have 2? A.K.A Darkrai. Darkrai is immense in the current metagame, with immense power that leaves it without many checks, but even those can be beaten with Nature’s Madness from Tapu Lele. One of the things that annoys Darkrai at the moment is priority, which Tapu Lele also helps with. SubPlot to beat Bliss, Dark Pulse + Sludge Bomb to attack.
Darkrai @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Bad Dreams
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Bomb
- Substitute

What’s to stop Magearna coming in and sitting in front of these Pokemon? Well, Primal Groudon is easily the best check in the game, and with the HO Nature of the team, I put an offensive Rocker (because every team needs a rocker yknow?).
Stone Edge to hit Ho-oh and Blue Orb Golisopod switches, SR, because ^, Overheat for raw attacking power, and Pblades because I’m not that bad.
Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 172 SpD / 28 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Primal Groudon was an issue here, so I put the (arguably) best Pokemon in the game as an offensive check. Lucarionite Zygarde. Contrary to the common set, I put Outrage over Glare and Substitute over Pain Split, just to increase the sweeping potential. I put lots of Defense on it so I can check Primal Groudon better, and 40 speed outpaces Adamant Primal Groudon I think?
Zygarde @ Lucarionite
Ability: Aura Break
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 216 Def / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

Landot seemed like a massive threat here, hence I put Pinsirite Magearna with Explosion to bring a frail Pokemon like Tapu Lele in. Magearna with Pinsirite is yet another amazing sweeper, and so yeah, let’s have 4 sweepers on the team why tf not? Not much else to say rly. Oh yeah and checks Arceus-Ground which was a massive threat before.
Magearna @ Pinsirite
Ability: Soul-Heart
Happiness: 0
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Frustration
- Explosion
- Pain Split

Yeah overall this is one of the best teams I have ever made, which is sorta sad. Slightly weak to Lunala but it hasn’t been to much of an issue, I do have replays, such as me beating OM~! But I do not have access to them rn. Any advice would be welcome.

E:
Tapu Lele @ Diancite
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nature's Madness
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Taunt

Xerneas @ Power Herb
Ability: Fairy Aura
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 72 Def / 232 SpA / 204 Spe
Serious Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Grass Knot
- Thunder
- Geomancy

Darkrai @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Bad Dreams
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Sludge Bomb
- Substitute

Groudon-Primal @ Red Orb
Ability: Desolate Land
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 56 Atk / 252 SpA / 172 SpD / 28 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Precipice Blades
- Overheat
- Stealth Rock
- Stone Edge

Zygarde @ Lucarionite
Ability: Aura Break
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 216 Def / 40 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Outrage
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

Magearna @ Pinsirite
Ability: Soul-Heart
Happiness: 0
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Shift Gear
- Frustration
- Explosion
- Pain Split

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-828229110 I’m bad he’s bad whatever. Still shows effectiveness of Magearna. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-828156594 there’s the one of me beating Om. Terrible play on both sides there. I’m lucky that Zygarde was on full. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-828236109 lmao.
 
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Victini @ Lucarionite
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn/Quick Attack
Base stats: 100/135/118/125/100/122

While Jolly is in a good speed tier, above Pinsirite Genesect but below Blastoisinite Darkrai, with 377 speed, and has a solid 369 attack, Adamant is the better nature, giving a still decently high speed tier with 343 speed, between Pinsirite Landorus and Lucarionite Mamoswine, and has 405 attack, which can lead to obscenely strong V-Creates when combined with Adaptability.

Here is an example of the strength of it's V-Creates. Let's have it use V-Create on a typeless Slowbronite Avalugg, which has physical bulk of 95/254. This is the best physical bulk that can be achieved in Mix and Mega, as although other mons can reach 255 Defense, Avalugg has higher HP than any of them. A typeless Avalugg was used for all damage calculations because of this.

No hazards:
252+ Atk Adaptability Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 158-186 (40.1 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
With Stealth Rock:
252+ Atk Adaptability Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 158-186 (40.1 - 47.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
With 3 layers of Spikes:
252+ Atk Adaptability Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 158-186 (40.1 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes

And while it is true that Red Orb Victini does more damage with V-Create:
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Harsh Sunshine: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO

Lucarionite Victini, however, still shines in places that Red Orb Victini doesn't, however. Lucarionite Victini doesn't have to run a mixed set to get reliable Psychic STAB, for example. It also does slightly more damage with physical coverage moves due to it's slightly higher Attack. It can also perform better on teams utilizing Drought. Here is Lucarionite Victini's V-Create when used under strong sun:

252+ Atk Adaptability Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Sun: 236-278 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Unfortunately, Drought is kind of a gimmick at the moment, so I made a few Drought sets for people to try. They're all tanks, to ensure that they can stay alive throughout the match yet still be able to deal some damage.


Deoxys-Defense @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Solar Beam
- Recover
Base Stats: 50/90/160/120/190/90


Toxapex @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baneful Bunker
- Sludge Wave/Venoshock
- Toxic/Toxic Spikes
- Recover
Base Stats: 50/83/152/103/172/35

probably going to get ridiculed for this but at least not as much as i was for slowbronite delphox
 

Victini @ Lucarionite
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant/Jolly Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn/Quick Attack
Base stats: 100/135/118/125/100/122

While Jolly is in a good speed tier, above Pinsirite Genesect but below Blastoisinite Darkrai, with 377 speed, and has a solid 369 attack, Adamant is the better nature, giving a still decently high speed tier with 343 speed, between Pinsirite Landorus and Lucarionite Mamoswine, and has 405 attack, which can lead to obscenely strong V-Creates when combined with Adaptability.

Here is an example of the strength of it's V-Creates. Let's have it use V-Create on a typeless Slowbronite Avalugg, which has physical bulk of 95/254. This is the best physical bulk that can be achieved in Mix and Mega, as although other mons can reach 255 Defense, Avalugg has higher HP than any of them. A typeless Avalugg was used for all damage calculations because of this.

No hazards:
252+ Atk Adaptability Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 158-186 (40.1 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
With Stealth Rock:
252+ Atk Adaptability Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 158-186 (40.1 - 47.2%) -- 41% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
With 3 layers of Spikes:
252+ Atk Adaptability Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 158-186 (40.1 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes

And while it is true that Red Orb Victini does more damage with V-Create:
252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Harsh Sunshine: 172-204 (43.6 - 51.7%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO

Lucarionite Victini, however, still shines in places that Red Orb Victini doesn't, however. Lucarionite Victini doesn't have to run a mixed set to get reliable Psychic STAB, for example. It also does slightly more damage with physical coverage moves due to it's slightly higher Attack. It can also perform better on teams utilizing Drought. Here is Lucarionite Victini's V-Create when used under strong sun:

252+ Atk Adaptability Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Sun: 236-278 (59.8 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Unfortunately, Drought is kind of a gimmick at the moment, so I made a few Drought sets for people to try. They're all tanks, to ensure that they can stay alive throughout the match yet still be able to deal some damage.


Deoxys-Defense @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 192 Def / 64 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock/Psychic
- Solar Beam
- Recover
Base Stats: 50/90/160/120/190/90


Toxapex @ Charizardite Y
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 104 Def / 152 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Baneful Bunker
- Sludge Wave/Venoshock
- Toxic/Toxic Spikes
- Recover
Base Stats: 50/83/152/103/172/35

probably going to get ridiculed for this but at least not as much as i was for slowbronite delphox
I tried this briefly last gen and found it worked best when paired with a Volturn partner, which could solve your Charizardite-Y issue and maybe even allow for a 3rd partner to round things off.
 
November team dump
Godloom (Breloom) (M) @ Banettite
Ability: Effect Spore
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 160 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Spore
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Focus Punch

Gastrodon-East @ Sablenite
Ability: Storm Drain
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Scald
- Earth Power
- Recover

Blissey @ Slowbronite
Ability: Natural Cure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Heal Bell
- Toxic
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled

Arceus-Fire @ Flame Plate
Ability: Multitype
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Judgment

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rest
- Dragon Tail
- Will-O-Wisp
- Defog

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Transform
 
I tried this briefly last gen and found it worked best when paired with a Volturn partner, which could solve your Charizardite-Y issue and maybe even allow for a 3rd partner to round things off.
The same also applies to Red Orb Victini, so unless you're referring to a Charizardite Y User with VoltTurn I don't see where you're coming from. If that is what you're referring to, I'd probably use Zeraora for offensive Charizardite Y.
 
In case anyone wanted to try something different, here is my Trick Room team that I've been using for the past couple of months to great success.
Hoopa-Unbound @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Magician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Dark Pulse
- Nasty Plot
- Psyshock
- Trick Room
For those who felt like Darkrai didn't hit quite hard enough, here is a mon with an astonishing 592 special attack unboosted which is a little more than base 130 with specs. Also has a respectable base 150 special defense and can bulk some hard hits like Raikou's Weather Ball and Lunala's Z-Nuke which might bother other teammates and once even managed to survive Precipice Blades.

Magearna @ Cameruptite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
Slow, bulky, hard hitting, and Darkrai resistant combined with amazing coverage makes Magearna a great fit for this team.

Uxie @ Ampharosite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Memento
- Magic Coat
- Stealth Rock
I usually lead with this to get rocks up, Ampharosite being preferred to Gyaradosite for the lowered speed and being preferred to other defensive stones like Sablenite because my rocks kept getting bounced. U-Turn is another option if you'd rather pivot without killing it.

Lunala @ Lunalium Z
Ability: Shadow Shield
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Moongeist Beam
- Trick Room
- Calm Mind
- Focus Blast
Can set up TR against pretty much anything and then blow it up with MMM. Moonblast is another good option I have yet to try since it mostly just spams Moongeist or wants to die after getting TR up to let in something stronger and slower.

Golisopod (M) @ Blue Orb
Ability: Emergency Exit
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Drill Run
- Aqua Jet
- Leech Life
- Liquidation
The other lifeline to prevent Groudon from steamrolling this team, as well as providing a good check to other fire types such as Entei.

Stakataka @ Heracronite
Ability: Beast Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Trick Room
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
- Gyro Ball
This thing is an absolute beast, still maxing out Gyro Ball's damage against things as slow as base 7 and being capable of taking out Blue Orb Skarmory and surviving Altarianite Zygarde's Thousand Arrows.
And here is an easier to import version.
https://pokepast.es/3e4f29b74532e754
 
The same also applies to Red Orb Victini, so unless you're referring to a Charizardite Y User with VoltTurn I don't see where you're coming from. If that is what you're referring to, I'd probably use Zeraora for offensive Charizardite Y.
Yes thats exactly what I mean, a Charizardite-Y user with Volturn.
 

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