Metagame Workshop

[ESN 64]

Illegal match

One of the simplest, yet utterly meta destroying beyond comparison ideas....

What if you could only use abilities and moves, that your pokemon did not naturally learn?

For example, Slaking can no longer use Truant, but quit your whining. Because well he loses out on a terrible ability, he also loses every move he knows naturally! No Slack Off, Double Edge or Punches anymore! Watch your Charizard set up Stealth Rocks and your Ferrothorn Flare Blitz like no tommorow! Want to give your Eevee Wonderguard? Go ahead! Sturdy Shedninja and Moldbreaker Shuckle look pretty good too, not really any bans because so much is possible! Let me list some threats though

Threats:

Arceus
(Poison Heal) (Toxic Orb)
-Quiver Dance
-Double Edge
-Slack Off
-Clanging Scales

Despite losing his amazing ability and movepool, Arceus is far from a pushover! You could substitute a few moves in this set but you probably get the idea, with terrifying stats comes a price though. He now primarily uses high cost moves or ones with low damage. Deadly in the right hands, shit in others.

Unown
(Psychic Surge) (Focus Sash/Z-Crystal)
-Psychic/Judgement
-Power Split
-Guard Split
-Recover

Okay it does not matter, Unown is dangerous and that is all you really need to know. Do NOT let the low stats fool you, being able to learn virtualy every move and ability in the game is terrifying and very exploitable. Never let this thing live 2 turns, ever

Smeargle

???

Seems pretty weird, why would something with nothing in this mode get labeled as a threat? It does not even have good stats! Well the answer is, shut up and run. Simply giving this thing an ability is bad news, because there is no risk to losing it you can abuse it! The ultimate supporter can summon weather and terrain and get a guaranteed hit with struggle if they let it live, ruining sturdy and sash. And setting up might be bad too cause it has access to Magic Bounce! A perfect suicide lead to grant a nigh unsurvivable Stab Retalliate. So beware.

Tyrantrum

(Hydration/Dry Skin/Rain Dish) (Damp Rock)
-Rain Dance
-Hurricane
-Thunder
-Splash

Tyrantrum becomes one of the incredibly rare pokemon to be able to use weather moves, sure you can get them with Drizzle, but with this you can abuse another ability instead! The best part is that it is far from defenseless if you want it as a rain setter, you can sweep a team and then splash in the puddles of their blood!

I do not need to explain that the threats expand beyond space and time, but i will stop for now. Give me your feedback!

 

[ESN 64]

Hipstermon:

the top 10 most commonly and consistently used pokemon in ou are banned

This would definitely shift things around quite a bit but would it change it enough for it to be considered a om has this been done before and any possible bans because of the lack of the massive power of the top 10?

I would like it better as a countdown! Every so often the most popular pokemon used in it is banned.... forever! Maybe have a reset point and clauses but i like it

This might sound stupid but what about this has this been done?

Swap Battles:

You and your Foe pick 3 pokemon on each others team and switch them into each others teams so for instance say I have something like this

Example

Gliscor
Blissey
Clafable
Charizard Y
Landorus-Therian
Hoopa-UnBound

Vs.

Tapu Lele
Greninja
Latios
Magearna
Mawile-Mega
Kartana

Lets say my team is the one with the landorus so I choose the magearna kartana and greninja then my foe chooses my gliscor blissey and landorus

our teams would then be switched so I would have magearna kartana greninja Charizard clafable and hoopa

my Foe would have lele latios mawile gliscor blissey and landorus

and you cant just make 3 pokemon terrible because your foe might only pick the good ones and you might pick 3 terrible pokemon leaving you with 6 crappy pokemon and them with 6 good pokemon alternatively you could but it would be a gamble how ever it would be better to take a bh approach to things and make it so your pokemon can beat each other but you foe will have trouble beating you I don't know if this has already been done but it seems fun to me

Possible Bans:
landorus-Therian
reasoning: because landorus is everywhere all its going to do is ether make it so some one has 2 landos or they spend one of the 3 pokemon just to swap landos which defeats the purpose of this meta game of switch pokemon with your foe if you just switch 2 pokemon I chose 3 pokemon as it makes it half your team rather then just a small portion of your team

Kyuirim-B
Reasoning: See above but to a less extent possibly

these would be huge changes espeicially in a om like this as it would completely change the climate of ou in of its self on top of having to think about the swap

A randomized format of this would be amazing

 

[alephgalactus]

Illegal match

One of the simplest, yet utterly meta destroying beyond comparison ideas....

What if you could only use abilities and moves, that your pokemon did not naturally learn?

For example, Slaking can no longer use Truant, but quit your whining. Because well he loses out on a terrible ability, he also loses every move he knows naturally! No Slack Off, Double Edge or Punches anymore! Watch your Charizard set up Stealth Rocks and your Ferrothorn Flare Blitz like no tommorow! Want to give your Eevee Wonderguard? Go ahead! Sturdy Shedninja and Moldbreaker Shuckle look pretty good too, not really any bans because so much is possible! Let me list some threats though

Threats:

Arceus
(Poison Heal) (Toxic Orb)
-Quiver Dance
-Double Edge
-Slack Off
-Clanging Scales

Despite losing his amazing ability and movepool, Arceus is far from a pushover! You could substitute a few moves in this set but you probably get the idea, with terrifying stats comes a price though. He now primarily uses high cost moves or ones with low damage. Deadly in the right hands, shit in others.

Unown
(Psychic Surge) (Focus Sash/Z-Crystal)
-Psychic/Judgement
-Power Split
-Guard Split
-Recover

Okay it does not matter, Unown is dangerous and that is all you really need to know. Do NOT let the low stats fool you, being able to learn virtualy every move and ability in the game is terrifying and very exploitable. Never let this thing live 2 turns, ever

Smeargle

???

Seems pretty weird, why would something with nothing in this mode get labeled as a threat? It does not even have good stats! Well the answer is, shut up and run. Simply giving this thing an ability is bad news, because there is no risk to losing it you can abuse it! The ultimate supporter can summon weather and terrain and get a guaranteed hit with struggle if they let it live, ruining sturdy and sash. And setting up might be bad too cause it has access to Magic Bounce! A perfect suicide lead to grant a nigh unsurvivable Stab Retalliate. So beware.

Tyrantrum

(Hydration/Dry Skin/Rain Dish) (Damp Rock)
-Rain Dance
-Hurricane
-Thunder
-Splash

Tyrantrum becomes one of the incredibly rare pokemon to be able to use weather moves, sure you can get them with Drizzle, but with this you can abuse another ability instead! The best part is that it is far from defenseless if you want it as a rain setter, you can sweep a team and then splash in the puddles of their blood!

I do not need to explain that the threats expand beyond space and time, but i will stop for now. Give me your feedback!

Nothing in Hackmons runs anything it legally gets, so you’re basically describing Hackmons.

 

[ESN 64]

Nothing in Hackmons runs anything it legally gets, so you’re basically describing Hackmons.

Haha, true. But this straight up prevents it. I also love the idea of only having about 3 pokemon who know a TM move

 

[hiei-q]

This might sound stupid but what about this has this been done?

Swap Battles:

You and your Foe pick 3 pokemon on each others team and switch them into each others teams so for instance say I have something like this

Example

Gliscor
Blissey
Clafable
Charizard Y
Landorus-Therian
Hoopa-UnBound

Vs.

Tapu Lele
Greninja
Latios
Magearna
Mawile-Mega
Kartana

Lets say my team is the one with the landorus so I choose the magearna kartana and greninja then my foe chooses my gliscor blissey and landorus

our teams would then be switched so I would have magearna kartana greninja Charizard clafable and hoopa

my Foe would have lele latios mawile gliscor blissey and landorus

and you cant just make 3 pokemon terrible because your foe might only pick the good ones and you might pick 3 terrible pokemon leaving you with 6 crappy pokemon and them with 6 good pokemon alternatively you could but it would be a gamble how ever it would be better to take a bh approach to things and make it so your pokemon can beat each other but you foe will have trouble beating you I don't know if this has already been done but it seems fun to me

Possible Bans:
landorus-Therian
reasoning: because landorus is everywhere all its going to do is ether make it so some one has 2 landos or they spend one of the 3 pokemon just to swap landos which defeats the purpose of this meta game of switch pokemon with your foe if you just switch 2 pokemon I chose 3 pokemon as it makes it half your team rather then just a small portion of your team

Kyuirim-B
Reasoning: See above but to a less extent possibly

these would be huge changes espeicially in a om like this as it would completely change the climate of ou in of its self on top of having to think about the swap

I think this was alredy proposed here. The main problem is that a team with 6 crappy pokemon is completly viable and might be able to beat an actual team if you select 3 mons of your opponent that can beat the other 3. A randbats format can solve this issue

 

[OM]

Illegal match

One of the simplest, yet utterly meta destroying beyond comparison ideas....

What if you could only use abilities and moves, that your pokemon did not naturally learn?

For example, Slaking can no longer use Truant, but quit your whining. Because well he loses out on a terrible ability, he also loses every move he knows naturally! No Slack Off, Double Edge or Punches anymore! Watch your Charizard set up Stealth Rocks and your Ferrothorn Flare Blitz like no tommorow! Want to give your Eevee Wonderguard? Go ahead! Sturdy Shedninja and Moldbreaker Shuckle look pretty good too, not really any bans because so much is possible! Let me list some threats though

Threats:

Arceus
(Poison Heal) (Toxic Orb)
-Quiver Dance
-Double Edge
-Slack Off
-Clanging Scales

Despite losing his amazing ability and movepool, Arceus is far from a pushover! You could substitute a few moves in this set but you probably get the idea, with terrifying stats comes a price though. He now primarily uses high cost moves or ones with low damage. Deadly in the right hands, shit in others.

Unown
(Psychic Surge) (Focus Sash/Z-Crystal)
-Psychic/Judgement
-Power Split
-Guard Split
-Recover

Okay it does not matter, Unown is dangerous and that is all you really need to know. Do NOT let the low stats fool you, being able to learn virtualy every move and ability in the game is terrifying and very exploitable. Never let this thing live 2 turns, ever

Smeargle

???

Seems pretty weird, why would something with nothing in this mode get labeled as a threat? It does not even have good stats! Well the answer is, shut up and run. Simply giving this thing an ability is bad news, because there is no risk to losing it you can abuse it! The ultimate supporter can summon weather and terrain and get a guaranteed hit with struggle if they let it live, ruining sturdy and sash. And setting up might be bad too cause it has access to Magic Bounce! A perfect suicide lead to grant a nigh unsurvivable Stab Retalliate. So beware.

Tyrantrum

(Hydration/Dry Skin/Rain Dish) (Damp Rock)
-Rain Dance
-Hurricane
-Thunder
-Splash

Tyrantrum becomes one of the incredibly rare pokemon to be able to use weather moves, sure you can get them with Drizzle, but with this you can abuse another ability instead! The best part is that it is far from defenseless if you want it as a rain setter, you can sweep a team and then splash in the puddles of their blood!

I do not need to explain that the threats expand beyond space and time, but i will stop for now. Give me your feedback!

Everything gets sketch outside of smeargle so technically everything learns every move except for smeargle, gg.

 

[Magii]

Everything gets sketch outside of smeargle so technically everything learns every move except for smeargle, gg.

The thing is that most pokemon in Hackmons based formats don’t even really opt for things in their natural Movepool. It seems far too similar to BH with arbitrary restrictions to be a metagame.

Edit: Whoops quoted OM but hiei-q

 

[VCrakeV]

I'm not sure if this has been suggested before, but I did a quick search, and didn't find it. What is it?

Under Ubers, AKA UUbers

Premise: a usage-based meta where Pokemon with low usage in Ubers are allowed. OU clauses (except the unbans, obviously).

The specific usage cut off would probably be ~3.41%, like it is for UU. I'm not sure what stat is used for UU (1500, 1630, etc.), and I'm not sure which to use for UUbers. This could affect what may be allowed in the meta, and what may need to be banned. Potential threats and bans include: Mewtwo, Deoxys-N, Giratina-A, Pheromosa, Naganedal, and Solgaleo/Solganium z (and probably more).

I don't believe example sets are necessary, since this meta does not change any mechanics, but I can edit in some if desired.

Which Pokemon ought to be quick banned, if any? Why? Which ought to be suspected? Should Kyogre and Groudon be counted separately from their primal forms? If so, Kyogre could be a real threat on the radar.

 

[CoolMan6001]

I'm not sure if this has been suggested before, but I did a quick search, and didn't find it. What is it?

Under Ubers, AKA UUbers

Premise: a usage-based meta where Pokemon with low usage in Ubers are allowed. OU clauses (except the unbans, obviously).

The specific usage cut off would probably be ~3.41%, like it is for UU. I'm not sure what stat is used for UU (1500, 1630, etc.), and I'm not sure which to use for UUbers. This could affect what may be allowed in the meta, and what may need to be banned. Potential threats and bans include: Mewtwo, Deoxys-N, Giratina-A, Pheromosa, Naganedal, and Solgaleo/Solganium z (and probably more).

I don't believe example sets are necessary, since this meta does not change any mechanics, but I can edit in some if desired.

Which Pokemon ought to be quick banned, if any? Why? Which ought to be suspected? Should Kyogre and Groudon be counted separately from their primal forms? If so, Kyogre could be a real threat on the radar.

• I want to be a Smogon Tier Leader when I grow up: Tiers made up of Underused(/Bad in ubers) Uber pokemon or a usage based tier under ZU. Basically, no usage based tiers.

sorry fam

 

[VCrakeV]

sorry fam

Why was ZU allowed?

 

[Author_Pendragon]

Why was ZU allowed?

Because it's not below ZU

 

[Author_Pendragon]

While I work on Mirror Magic, I have another idea to bounce off you guys.

Tunnel Vision:
Metagame Premise: For every tier a Pokemon is above PU, their accuracy has a 10% chance decrease

For example, Landorus Therian is OU, which is 4 tiers (NU, RU, UU, OU) above PU. If it uses Toxic (90% chance to hit) it's accuracy is reduced by 40%, giving it a 54% chance to hit toxic.

 

[Kowasabii]

• Metagame premise: Set-Up Sweepers. Things that normally stop set-up, are removed from this OU meta game.
• Potential bans and threats.Banning all moves and abilities that prevent set-up, and unbanning baton pass
• Questions for the community. Do you think this meta would die off quickly?
• Do you think theres any way I can improve this meta or make it more fun?
• Do you think this meta would be too unbalanced to the point where it wouldn't be fun?

 

[Kowasabii]

While I work on Mirror Magic, I have another idea to bounce off you guys.

Tunnel Vision:
Metagame Premise: For every tier a Pokemon is above PU, their accuracy has a 10% chance decrease

For example, Landorus Therian is OU, which is 4 tiers (NU, RU, UU, OU) above PU. If it uses Toxic (90% chance to hit) it's accuracy is reduced by 40%, giving it a 54% chance to hit toxic.

thats kinda like tier shift only more RNG based, which I feel like a lot of people wouldn't like.

 

[Author_Pendragon]

thats kinda like tier shift only more RNG based, which I feel like a lot of people wouldn't like.

Oof, I just realized it's essentially non-competitive tier shift.

• Metagame premise: Set-Up Sweepers. Things that normally stop set-up, are removed from this OU meta game.
• Potential bans and threats.Banning all moves and abilities that prevent set-up, and unbanning baton pass
• Questions for the community. Do you think this meta would die off quickly?
• Do you think theres any way I can improve this meta or make it more fun?
• Do you think this meta would be too unbalanced to the point where it wouldn't be fun?

Unfortunately, this seems to be fairly arbitrary for a metagame, and while I'd play it, it's still very vague.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

While I work on Mirror Magic, I have another idea to bounce off you guys.

Tunnel Vision:
Metagame Premise: For every tier a Pokemon is above PU, their accuracy has a 10% chance decrease

For example, Landorus Therian is OU, which is 4 tiers (NU, RU, UU, OU) above PU. If it uses Toxic (90% chance to hit) it's accuracy is reduced by 40%, giving it a 54% chance to hit toxic.

A way to make this less of an RNG fest would be to reverse the concept. Have UU mons have their accuracy boosted by 10%, RU by 20%, etc.

 

[Author_Pendragon]

A way to make this less of an RNG fest would be to reverse the concept. Have UU mons have their accuracy boosted by 10%, RU by 20%, etc.

But how often do more accurate Fire Blasts from Heatmor compare to Flamethrowers from Zard Y?

 

[alephgalactus]

While I work on Mirror Magic, I have another idea to bounce off you guys.

Tunnel Vision:
Metagame Premise: For every tier a Pokemon is above PU, their accuracy has a 10% chance decrease

For example, Landorus Therian is OU, which is 4 tiers (NU, RU, UU, OU) above PU. If it uses Toxic (90% chance to hit) it's accuracy is reduced by 40%, giving it a 54% chance to hit toxic.

Infinitely dumber idea: Pokémon from different tiers are allowed to break different clauses. UU gets to break Baton Pass Clause, RU gets to break Moody Clause, NU gets to break Sleep Clause, and PU gets to break OHKO Clause.

 

[Rose_Warrior]

Whats wrong with a team full of crap pokemon being viable (would lead to some pretty funny matches) but it would basicly become a 3v3 kinda thing then. Also a Random format would kinda remove the point of the swapping then...

as for hipster mons I like the idea of the most used mon becoming banned maybe once a week ban a new pokemon? or possibly once a day in the case of it becoming meta of the month a ever changing meta game would be kinda interesting but I think the idea of removing the top 10 shakes things massively especially in the case of landorus

 

[Author_Pendragon]

Infinitely dumber idea: Pokémon from different tiers are allowed to break different clauses. UU gets to break Baton Pass Clause, RU gets to break Moody Clause, NU gets to break Sleep Clause, and PU gets to break OHKO Clause.

/fullsupport. Just add it to my uncompetitive meta to make it even worse

 

[Yahooboo]

Infinitely dumber idea: Pokémon from different tiers are allowed to break different clauses. UU gets to break Baton Pass Clause, RU gets to break Moody Clause, NU gets to break Sleep Clause, and PU gets to break OHKO Clause.

considering there are no RU pokemon with Moody, I fail to see how that's a good choice :P

 

[chartung17]

Infinitely dumber idea: Pokémon from different tiers are allowed to break different clauses. UU gets to break Baton Pass Clause, RU gets to break Moody Clause, NU gets to break Sleep Clause, and PU gets to break OHKO Clause.

Allowing RU to break Moody clause will have no effect whatsoever (all Moody users are PU or lower). Allowing UU to use Baton Pass might make either Scolipede or Venomoth (depending on whether UUBL or RUBL mons follow the UU rule) broken, but probably won't make much difference to anyone else unless Fell Stinger Baton Pass Mega Beedrill becomes a thing. And OHKO moves are still uncompetitive even in the hands of PU mons - scarf Dugtrio, for instance, could outrun and potentially OHKO just about any grounded mon with Fissure, or scarf Rapidash could do the same to non-ghosts with Horn Drill.

 

[alephgalactus]

All right, even though it started out as a joke, I’m revising my dumb and bad concept a little. PU will get to break Moody Clause instead. After careful consideration, I have decided that RU will get to break OHKO Clause. My reasoning for this is that RU has the least amount of dangerous and fast OHKO users—the fastest Pokémon that can use OHKO moves in RU are Flygon (possibly a problem due to Dragon Dance; it has answers but may need a suspect test) and Mega Glalie (which can’t use Scarf and learns no Speed-boosting moves, plus regular Glalie can run Moody so that’s probably a better choice for RNG meme garbage anyway). BL tiers will be able to break the clause of the tier above them—UUBL will not be able to break any clauses, RUBL can break Baton Pass Clause, and so forth.

Potential Threats:

Mega Beedrill - Can now use Baton Pass to transfer a Fell Stinger/Swords Dance boost to a teammate. Or you could just U-Turn, but whatever.

Durant - Can Baton Pass Attack and Accuracy boosts from Hone Claws.

Venomoth - Can Baton Pass boosts from Quiver Dance. May need to be looked at.

Flygon - OHKO user with base 100 Speed and Dragon Dance. Probably needs to be looked at.

Bulky OHKO users - RNG-heavy and can potentially punch large holes through opposing teams with minimal effort. On the bright side, bad players will be thrilled to learn that Donphan both gets Fissure and, thanks to Sturdy, is immune to other OHKO moves.

Sturdy users - Depending on how prevalent OHKO moves are in this meta, Sturdy users may rise up to counter them. Particularly viable Sturdy users include Skarmory, Forretress, Shuckle (but seriously folks), and (I can’t believe I’m saying this) Donphan.

Vivillon - Compound Eyes Sleep Powder has 98% Accuracy, and Vivillon gets to ignore Sleep Clause. It’s also not too shabby in terms of speed.

Moody users - Not much to explain here.

Smeargle - A Moody user with access to every move. Its base stats are absolutely abysmal, fortunately.

 

[ESN 64]

All right, even though it started out as a joke, I’m revising my dumb and bad concept a little. PU will get to break Moody Clause instead. After careful consideration, I have decided that RU will get to break OHKO Clause. My reasoning for this is that RU has the least amount of dangerous and fast OHKO users—the fastest Pokémon that can use OHKO moves in RU are Flygon (possibly a problem due to Dragon Dance; it has answers but may need a suspect test) and Mega Glalie (which can’t use Scarf and learns no Speed-boosting moves, plus regular Glalie can run Moody so that’s probably a better choice for RNG meme garbage anyway). BL tiers will be able to break the clause of the tier above them—UUBL will not be able to break any clauses, RUBL can break Baton Pass Clause, and so forth.

Potential Threats:

Mega Beedrill - Can now use Baton Pass to transfer a Fell Stinger/Swords Dance boost to a teammate. Or you could just U-Turn, but whatever.

Durant - Can Baton Pass Attack and Accuracy boosts from Hone Claws.

Venomoth - Can Baton Pass boosts from Quiver Dance. May need to be looked at.

Flygon - OHKO user with base 100 Speed and Dragon Dance. Probably needs to be looked at.

Bulky OHKO users - RNG-heavy and can potentially punch large holes through opposing teams with minimal effort. On the bright side, bad players will be thrilled to learn that Donphan both gets Fissure and, thanks to Sturdy, is immune to other OHKO moves.

Sturdy users - Depending on how prevalent OHKO moves are in this meta, Sturdy users may rise up to counter them. Particularly viable Sturdy users include Skarmory, Forretress, Shuckle (but seriously folks), and (I can’t believe I’m saying this) Donphan.

Vivillon - Compound Eyes Sleep Powder has 98% Accuracy, and Vivillon gets to ignore Sleep Clause. It’s also not too shabby in terms of speed.

Moody users - Not much to explain here.

Smeargle - A Moody user with access to every move. Its base stats are absolutely abysmal, fortunately.

A real threat is octillery, both attack stats are 100 and its movepool is a stupid amount of large

 

[hiei-q]

Whats wrong with a team full of crap pokemon being viable (would lead to some pretty funny matches) but it would basicly become a 3v3 kinda thing then. Also a Random format would kinda remove the point of the swapping then...

as for hipster mons I like the idea of the most used mon becoming banned maybe once a week ban a new pokemon? or possibly once a day in the case of it becoming meta of the month a ever changing meta game would be kinda interesting but I think the idea of removing the top 10 shakes things massively especially in the case of landorus

The problem, as i stated, is not only a team with 6 crappy pokemon might be viable but also it might have a chance of destroying a standard team if you chose 3 pokemon that beats the other 3. It is difficult to build a normal team in which every trio of pokemon are evenly matched against the other 3, so the only chance for a normal team to win is by tricking the other player into making a bad decision, or by building a super desinergized team (6 pure water types, for example). In a random format you select three pokemon of your opponent that will enhance the 3 pokemon you will have available, so predicting what pokemon your opponent will pick is a hugw deal.

Also, you can make it so that you pick 2 mons instead of 3. That way, you will still 4v2 ing a team of 6 crappy pokemon, forcing some decent teambuilding.