Metagame LGPE OverUsed

LGPE seems a very fun meta. I'm playing with this team and looks really strong against everything.

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Substitute

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Mega Drain
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb

Muk-Alola
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Toxic
- Substitute

Nidoqueen
Ability: Poison Point
Level: 50
Relaxed Nature
- Super Fang
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Roost
- Substitute

Melmetal
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Facade
 
LGPE seems a very fun meta. I'm playing with this team and looks really strong against everything.

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Substitute

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Mega Drain
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb

Muk-Alola
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Toxic
- Substitute

Nidoqueen
Ability: Poison Point
Level: 50
Relaxed Nature
- Super Fang
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Roost
- Substitute

Melmetal
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Facade
Hello! I dont have melmetal yet. Any ideas for a replacement ? Your team looks very fun.
 
It has some pretty notable distinctions over M-Alakazam. I'll list some from the top of my head:

1) The ability to use Will-O-Wisp to cripple A-Muk, or Protect + Disable to overcome it. Both of these strategies allow it to eventually 1v1 A-Muk. M-Alakazam is hopeless against A-Muk.

2) Ability to 2HKO Melmetal, a premier Pokemon in the metagame. With M-Alakazam, Melmetal can usually switch in once or twice (dependent on whether your opponent uses Psychic or Shadow Ball on switch in) and threaten the OHKO in return.

3) The existence of Will-O-Wisp is also a nice mid-ground play, and really eases prediction when the opponent is carrying one of A-Muk, Snorlax, and Melmetal (99% of teams will have at least one of these).

4) The Ghost typing is also a neat perk, as with Taunt, it can overcome Chansey. With M-Alakazam, Chansey can still win out with Seismic Toss.

5) Superior STAB moves as Ghost + Poison > mono Psychic.

Just looking at all the available Pokemon, there really isn't a true, reliable counter to M-Gengar. This fact alone warrants a rank higher than B, at the least. Also, the type differences between the two of them (Gengar and Alakazam) only distinguishes them further.

I do agree that overall they share similar roles in being fast, powerful cleaners, but I just wanted to make the point that M-Alakazam doesn't straight up outclass M-Gengar. M-Alakazam's advantages over M-Gengar are Calm Mind and a faster Speed, but I don't think is enough to outright state it's simply superior to M-Gengar. In my opinion, they should both be ranked together in S.

As for Eevee, Ryolain already covered my response, but I'd like to reinforce that being the only cleric in the tier doesn't automatically warrant an S rank (which it previously was, which I found absolutely ridiculous btw), nor an A rank. Personally, an upper B rank is fair for me. I say this because, again, it really isn't an effective cleric, and very often has to sacrifice itself just to do so.

TL;DR - M-Gengar has enough distinctions from M-Alakazam to be ranked independently of it (as in, the existence of M-Alakazam shouldn't deduce the viability of M-Gengar).
1) M. Gengar can Will-O-Wisp Alolan Muk. But Muk can take a hit from Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball and Hex. So it can’t really 1v1.

2) You’re right about Melmetal can be 2HKO while M. Zam doesn’t but be careful because most Melmetal carry earthquake or Double Iron Bash.

3)Almost everyone knows that M. Gengar have Will-O-Wisp so it easily predict by many players.

4)You’re with Ghost Type with Taunt is good against Chansey. But I can’t find any player who have a Chansey.

5)Gengar is powerful with dual typing. But M. Zam almost only need one move Psychic to destroy everything
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
I think Nidoking should be at parity with Nidoqueen. That either means a rise for King, or a drop for Queen.

Nidoking notably outspeeds Gyarados, Venusaur, and of course Nidoqueen. Hitting Mega Gyarados first with superpower or megahorn is no joke.

Jolly/Earthquake/Ice Punch/Stealth Rock + Superpower/Megahorn
 
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1) M. Gengar can Will-O-Wisp Alolan Muk. But Muk can take a hit from Sludge Bomb, Shadow Ball and Hex. So it can’t really 1v1.

2) You’re right about Melmetal can be 2HKO while M. Zam doesn’t but be careful because most Melmetal carry earthquake or Double Iron Bash.

3)Almost everyone knows that M. Gengar have Will-O-Wisp so it easily predict by many players.

4)You’re with Ghost Type with Taunt is good against Chansey. But I can’t find any player who have a Chansey.

5)Gengar is powerful with dual typing. But M. Zam almost only need one move Psychic to destroy everything
If MGengar is looking to 1v1 A-Muk it‘s better off running Protect/Disable to disable Crunch rather than WoW, then usually runs Tbolt as its neutral coverage move alongside Shadow Ball. Zam also definitely wants at least Dazzling Gleam for MGyara and to have a chance against A-Muk and probably Shadow Ball for opposing Zams and Melmetal. Sludge Bomb is kind of useless in this meta with so few Fairies and most Grass types being neutral to it.
 
Here is my team. its very good
EeveeS/MGdos/Nidoking/Mew/Melmetal/Snorlax
Eevee-Starter
Ability: Run Away
Level: 50
Impish Nature
- Sizzly Slide
- Sappy Seed
- Sparkly Swirl
- Buzzy Buzz

Mew
Ability: Synchronize
Level: 50
Jolly Nature
- Bulk Up
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Megahorn

Snorlax
Ability: Immunity
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Rest
- Earthquake
- Body Slam

Melmetal
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Facade
- Earthquake

Nidoking
Ability: Poison Point
Level: 50
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Stealth Rock
- Megahorn
peaked number 15 at 1537. Snorlax is underrated, has work arounds for most mons, very hard to wall. Nidoking has been discovered and is very hard to switch into. Facade is needed on Gyarados

Options: If going mixed queen is better. originally i had jinx with ice beam, calm m, teleport, lovely kiss. Lovely kiss is amazing and jinx is a good offensive mon with a good speed tier and stab but i switched it for nidoking bc zapdos. Team hates MVenu, fire types, and fast uncommon mons like ADuggy(good mon). Melmetal can run rest over twave or thunderp over icep. Mew set is wonky; was running ice punch over roost for Zapdos but switched for roost to set up on melmetal. Could run a nasty plot.

In terms of viability i think zam could drop bc Mgar also has high speed and offence but adds team support. Zam is checked by quite a few things and is predictable. Gyarados is possibly the second best mon and could go S. Almost nothing can 1hko or switch in. with adamant it 2hits zapdos. Its stabs are insane almost nothing resists crunch and waterfall kills most things with rocks. Facade is also amazing. Gdos checks Zam, Aero, Muk, Melmetal, Nidos, Starmie, Rhydon, ADugy, Slowbro, Mew. Mew is amazing, probably a little more viable than GDos because it's unpredictable. Can go physical, special, rocks, mixed.
 
Got some hot takes to drop.


A- -> B+

This might be just a hair controversial, but I think Rhydon is starting to falter. I've noticed that it's becoming less common on the ladder, especially when Alolan Muk started to run Sassy for it (Mega Drain) and Melmetal (Fire Blast) not too long ago. It has forced some users to start running Jolly natures on their Rhydon to keep up with it, which affects various rolls such as Rock Slide vs Lead Aero having a small chance to miss out on the OHKO. Not only that, people are preferring to use faster Stealth Rock setters that offer much more utility like (Mega) Aerodactyl, Alolan Dugtrio, and Nidoqueen than the "very first Pokemon". I think Nidoqueen in particular, a fellow A- mon that's the most comparable, is just better than Rhydon in this meta overall. It has a Toxic-immunity which is such a boon to have in this meta, it has a faster Speed-stat which lets it outpace everything up to Eevee-Starter when Jolly is used, Super Fang is just so good at chunking everything that comes in on it, and while this is a somewhat minuscule point, you actually resist U-turn from Zapdos meaning you take 3% less damage from each use of it, and the extra damage that Rhydon takes from it, plus its vulnerability to Toxic, actually adds up quicker than you'd think, and it honestly makes it a much weaker Zapdos switch-in than Nidoqueen and even Alolan Dugtrio. Hell, even Zard X has started to use special variants that totally mess up Rhydon on the switch. Fire Blast on the switchin + Dragon Pulse = a dead Rhydon.

As for the rest of the mons in A-, I strongly believe that they're all more viable in the current meta than Rhydon is right now, especially Mega Venusaur (this thing is so annoying af to face, I swear). Rhydon just simply doesn't fit in that ranking anymore and, in my opinion, B+ suits it better. With all the roasting I just gave to Rhydon, it's still not a bad Pokemon at all, but it's not A-rank material like it was a week ago.

Speaking of Eevee-Starter...


A+ -> A-

This thing is also a tad overrated, if you ask me. Like Rhydon, I've been seeing this mon less and less, too. It's too slow and too frail for it to come in vs anything, and while it can be annoying for teams to face thanks to its signature moves, it finds itself in a somewhat awkward position now that the meta has started to become much faster. As someone said here earlier, it's lucky if it's able to get more than one of its support moves off before it gets severely chunked by something. That being said, the utility this mon brings is unparalleled which is why I still think it deserves A-, but it just doesn't have the stat distribution to succeed as much as it'd like to.


B+ to A- maybe even higher

Then, there's Mega Gengar. B+ simply doesn't do this mon enough justice. I personally don't even think A- would do it enough justice, but one step at a time. This thing is a menace right now thanks to Protect + Disable messing everything up from Alolan-Muk to Zapdos. The mind games that this set has created in LGPE OU cannot be ignored. A-Muks have started to use Fire Blast turn 1 vs them more often to avoid the Crunch Disable, which only does like 27 max if Gengar decides to predict that and use Thunderbolt to start whittling Muk down earlier. It has much better coverage with access to Thunderbolt, which lets it hit Mega Gyarados and Alolan-Muk harder than Mega Alakazam can to both with Dazzling Gleam. STAB Shadow Ball is also, in my opinion, much more threatening than Zam's STAB Psychic and non-STAB Shadow Ball, where one Shadow Ball is a 2HKO on Melmetal after rocks, and the other is a 3HKO.

Mega Gengar absolutely needs to rise. Everything else in B+ is a joke compared to it, and even some A- mons like Starmie, Regular Zam, and especially Rhydon, aren't as good as Mega Gengar, at least in my opinion.
 
The Eeve S hate has gone too far.

I think a lot of that comes from people not really using it correctly or expecting it to do something its not supposed to. Eeve allows you to regen blanket check mons and turn momentum in your favor. In a meta when stuff like Zam, Mew, and Gengar have the same checks (muk, Melmetal, Snorlax, Gyara) that are vulnerable to chip dmg, that is super good. What really makes EV good, that most fail to consider, is how hard it is to switch into and how consistently it performs it role. Looking at it like a defensive mon is incorrect. It's an offensive team supporter. Its type coverage is ridiculous and it does its job with out being taunt bait and while doing good damage. EV switches in on defensive mews, shadow balls, scalds. After safely getting in (on attacks that do around ~45%), EV basically has no switch ins and uses any free turns it gets very effectively.

Buzzy buzz is something that should almost always be run on EV. While protect is nice, buzz ruins anything that potentially didn't mind being burned. Para is amazing in this meta and Buzz is the only 100%. Gar, Zam, mew are mons that need their speed in order to not be eaten by Gyrados, Nidoking, and Mew. On top of this Buzz give EV an extra turn to heal with Swirl or set up a sweep with Seed.

Without even considering unexplored Dark 90bp reflect or Water drain.

Eeve is fine where it is. Not S like people first thought; but damn close
 
I haven't been particularly keeping tabs on the meta for this game yet (wasn't able to pick mine up on launch, then work kept me too busy to play enough), but what's the general consensus for Eevee-S's Nature? Looking at its signature moves, I'm hesitant to go Jolly since it has such a varied mixed movepool. However, its primary role seems to be offensive support and probably doesn't want to lose out on its defensive stats very much.

Given the new starters' exclusivity and the game's lack of breeding, I don't want to get myself stuck with an Eevee who's Nature would hold it back. My guess at the moment goes for Jolly for speed and utility, or maybe Naive to keep its Def as high as possible to take advantage of Burns and heals and such.
 
LGPE seems a very fun meta. I'm playing with this team and looks really strong against everything.

Gyarados-Mega @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
Level: 50
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Substitute

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
Level: 50
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Mega Drain
- Sleep Powder
- Sludge Bomb

Muk-Alola
Ability: Poison Touch
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Crunch
- Fire Punch
- Toxic
- Substitute

Nidoqueen
Ability: Poison Point
Level: 50
Relaxed Nature
- Super Fang
- Stealth Rock
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

Zapdos
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- U-turn
- Roost
- Substitute

Melmetal
Ability: Iron Fist
Level: 50
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Facade
imagine using two megas on the same team
 
I haven't been particularly keeping tabs on the meta for this game yet (wasn't able to pick mine up on launch, then work kept me too busy to play enough), but what's the general consensus for Eevee-S's Nature? Looking at its signature moves, I'm hesitant to go Jolly since it has such a varied mixed movepool. However, its primary role seems to be offensive support and probably doesn't want to lose out on its defensive stats very much.

Given the new starters' exclusivity and the game's lack of breeding, I don't want to get myself stuck with an Eevee who's Nature would hold it back. My guess at the moment goes for Jolly for speed and utility, or maybe Naive to keep its Def as high as possible to take advantage of Burns and heals and such.
Jolly is the best nature to use by far. It keeps your defensive stats intact while maximizes your Speed stat. Even with a Naive nature, Eevee isn't dishing out a whole lot of damage with its Special moves, and the moves it uses are primarily used for their utility than to knock out its opponents.
 
Jolly is the best nature to use by far. It keeps your defensive stats intact while maximizes your Speed stat. Even with a Naive nature, Eevee isn't dishing out a whole lot of damage with its Special moves, and the moves it uses are primarily used for their utility than to knock out its opponents.
Yeah, I suppose you do have a point there. As much as I would prefer to have a mixed Nature for my actual playthrough, a Jolly Nature would probably be better for Eevee in the long run. He's meant to do some damage while placing his status effects and stuff, but he's not meant to be a powerhouse, especially on the Special side.

I assume Jolly was chosen over Timid because of his higher base Attack? Makes sense, even if many of his unique attack are Special (including his draining move).
 
Yeah, I suppose you do have a point there. As much as I would prefer to have a mixed Nature for my actual playthrough, a Jolly Nature would probably be better for Eevee in the long run. He's meant to do some damage while placing his status effects and stuff, but he's not meant to be a powerhouse, especially on the Special side.

I assume Jolly was chosen over Timid because of his higher base Attack? Makes sense, even if many of his unique attack are Special (including his draining move).
Eevee generally only runs Sparkly Swirl on the special side in competitive and it’s really just for the status clearing effect, so the damage is irrelevant. Fairy isn’t a particularly good offensive type in this meta anyway with very few Dark/Dragon types around.
 
Any tips on how to make do with a relaxed nature mew if unlucky on OU cart battling?
(+Def, -speed)
Oh yeah I felt that swift kick in my balls, whan I saw that nature.
110 def is nice but damn 90 speed blows.

Yeah yeah i know this is emulated showdown, but want to know what to do in legit cart for OU non mewtwo battling.

Thinking of stallbreaker build one with:

•Taunt
•Will wisp
•softboiled/roost
•filler

Suggestions?

.....or am i gonna have to offer my 1st legit melmetal for a cart legit good nature mew?
 

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
Any tips on how to make do with a relaxed nature mew if unlucky on OU cart battling?
(+Def, -speed)
Oh yeah I felt that swift kick in my balls, whan I saw that nature.
110 def is nice but damn 90 speed blows.
Yeah yeah i know this is emulated showdown, but want to know what to do in legit cart for OU non mewtwo battling.
Thinking of stallbreaker build one with:
•Taunt
•Will wisp
•softboiled/roost
•filler
Suggestions?
.....or am i gonna have to offer my 1st legit melmetal for a cart legit good nature mew?
When all else fails, with a -Speed nature, phazing would be a nice choice. With Stealth Rock being so ever-present it's quite a useful annoyance. Will-o, Roost (no softboiled TM in this game sadly), Dragon Tail, and perhaps a nice slow U-turn yourself to round things off.
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
Snorlax: B+ to A-

Snorlax remains as fat as ever, acting as a decent blanket check against special attacks and status sponge. I've been running Careful/Facade/Earthquake/Crunch/Self Destruct and it always puts in work. This deals with almost every Mew and doesn't lose to Protect/Disable Gengar. Only the ubiquity of Melmetal really keeps Snorlax out of A+ IMO.
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
Any tips on how to make do with a relaxed nature mew if unlucky on OU cart battling?
I've been messing around with Bold/Will-O-Wisp/Thunder Wave/Roost + Psychic/Ice Beam and it's done a decent job. A Relaxed nature should work OK, and you could even consider a slow U-Turn over WOW/TW or as your only attack. Double status works on the principle that anything that doesn't mind burn, hates paralysis. This Mew doesn't really have to switch out (immediately) against anything except Mega Gengar, and even then always survives Timid Shadow Ball.
 
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So, I noticed a very odd 'mon sitting in the bottom of the rankings that I'd like to experiment with, and was curious as to what Parasect does other than have spore (if anything) and what set I should look into using.


Since not every mon has a set hyperlinked to it just yet (understandably), I can't help but wonder if it's really ranked for only its access to spore.
 
Eevee generally only runs Sparkly Swirl on the special side in competitive and it’s really just for the status clearing effect, so the damage is irrelevant. Fairy isn’t a particularly good offensive type in this meta anyway with very few Dark/Dragon types around.
Yeah, that's true. I guess my main concern was partly with my casual playthrough as well, since I'd like to give my Eevee a nice varied moveset to play around with and have fun, with stuff like Buzzy Buzz and Bouncy Bubble and such. Well, at the very least, Candies can help make up for that in-game, and Jolly would still be good for competitive.

Damn you, Nintendo! Making things hard on me. :\ Well, at least it's not as bad as luck-of-the-draw Mew...
 
Eevee-Starter
A+ to A
Disagree


Although for its frail and low speed. Eevee still can provide team support for its weird movesets created for LGPE.
Just be careful because it heavily needs team support.

Mega Gengar
B+ to A-
Kinda Agree


Like my post I made for M. Gengar. M. Gengar holds a strong niche in the metagame. With its good movesets, typing and decent stats. Surely this Pokémon is better than some sweepers. But no, M. Gengar is really as a utility because there’s so many fast sweepers that are better than M. Gengar (You know those). Still, best pokemon for Will-O-Wisp user, taunt user and Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb user.
 
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Cased

Banned deucer.
I'm recently unbanned but in my spare time I've been playing LPGE OU and it's an awesome metagame. I think it is really fun to be creative in because like a lot of past generations, the creativity is very subtle but matters a lot. There's just a couple of things with the viability list that I disagree with and I'd just like to post my thoughts.

Eevee-Starter: Upper A -> Lower A
While it's the only Pokemon in the tier that can do a lot of things that other Pokemon can't do, I can't really say that it does any of them too well. I understand it is Upper A because of its ability to do things, but in practice, its lackluster bulk and Speed only give it a couple chances to get moves off. While being a cleric is really important and can greatly impact a team's functionality more than any other role, Eevee in my experience only gets chances to be the cleric it is or use its status-inducing moves once or twice at most. It deserves A- based off its high ceiling of performance, but I believe its even lower floor makes it generally less effective than all the Upper A Pokemon.

Mega Gengar: Upper B -> Upper A
I understand if we're saying it's not in Upper A because using it means you can't use the other megas, but I'm basing this solely off Mega Gengar's performance. It's really good. The Pokemon that generally check Psychics (Gyarados / Muk-A / Melmetal / Mew) are forced to attempt to check Mega Gengar, and they do a really poor job of that. Thunderbolt from Mega Gengar scares Gyarados to where it can't come in after rocks on any attack and then take a Modest Thunderbolt & Muk-A doesn't have the ability to continue to come in on Thunderbolt as much as it can on Mega Alakazam attacks. STAB from Gengar hurts Melmetal and Mew as well, meaning they need to come in at a high amount of HP just to take it on, or else they'll die. Lower A is fine for Mega Gengar as well, because some people can view it as a prediction-based Pokemon considering I'm talking about "oh you just do x when y comes in" but it has very spammable stabs and doesn't generally need to make reads. Being revenged by Mega-Zam / Mega-Aero / Mega-Beedrill can be annoying but that goes for most Pokemon in the tier.

Mega Beedrill: Unranked -> Lower A
Great movepool for this tier. Drill Run / Poison Jab / U-Turn are all super important to it. The rock weakness is really frustrating when you want to U-Turn but you also have the ability to X-Scissor or Twinneedle (if ur a real man) so you don't have to switch out if you want to U-Turn. A really threatening Pokemon late-game because a lot of this tier is hit neutral by either Bug / Poison / Ground, and its high speed means it moves before 95% of the metagame and high attack means it's going to be doing a respectable amount.

Poliwrath: Lower B -> Upper B
Wouldn't say it's incredible but it's definitely better than the rest of the Pokemon in the rest of the Pokemon in Lower B. Respectable defense and good typing let it become the only switch-in to both of Mega Gyarados's STABs, while also doing a good job coming in on attacks from Melmetal and Mega Aerodactyl attacks. Options to use Hypnosis or Toxic nail any switch-in + Seismic Toss is good damage that ignores the type chart. I think it's good (ABR sold me on it and it worked very well in tests)

Alolan Dugtrio: Upper B -> Lower A
Alolan Dugtrio is a really cool Pokemon. When looking for switch-ins to Zapdos, they either get Toxic'd or Drill Pecked. Alolan Dug does neither, and reliably gets rocks up on a lot of the tier, while being strong and speedy enough to threaten 2hkos on Pokemon if come in on neutral hits. Sucker Punch allows it to threaten Mega Gengar & its typing allows it to tank a hit from Mega Alakazam.

That's it for now, legitimately hoping this replaces Ubers in Grand Slam. Once team archetypes become more defined and set in stone in the next couple of months is when cool move techs and uncommon Pokemon will start to get used more and more to exploit really common builds. Until then, I doubt there's much shift in the viability rankings. Cheers
 

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