D/P or ADV: Which one is better in terms of....

Veteran In Love

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playability? (in terms of being easier/harder to learn?)

room for creativity? (are teams stale? do people have to use the same pokemon and teams over and over again to stand a chance?)

amount of deeper-level prediction? (is a lot of prediction and second-level thought required to win consistently, or can one lean simply on team strength and strategy to win?)

more enjoyable? (this is obvious)

requiring a higher overall skill level? (considering all aspects of the game: prediction, team building, luck)

^^^ The upper questions are guidelines, anyone who posts should feel free to explain why they feel that way, etc.

This is not a thread which attempts to promote one game over the other, just a thread which allows people to gives personal insights on improvement of the overall PKMN metagame as it heads onward from generation to generation.

P.S This thread is really for people who have played ADV extensively as well as D/P, seeing as they can give more in-depth answers.
 
Playability: The only thing harder about learning D/P than ADV is the obvious huge addition to the pool of pokemon to pick from, aside from that its the same old learning how to play in the metagame.

Creativity: Theres so much more room for creativity, seeing as how the more pokemon we have, the more difficult it becomes to completely cover yourself from most of the powerhouses out there, the game is now much more about team synergy than gaggle of OU pokemon, there was no way in hell you'd ever see a Hail team in adv, but look at the idea now.

Prediction: Its more necessary than ever now, with moves like Draco Meteor and Close Combat eating up walls for meals. The only pokemon that can be thrown into pretty much anything is Blissey and theres still special attackers that can handle the eggthing. Not too many albeit; but theres still a possibility to dent the massive wall.

Enjoyable: That is obvious. Most people prefer D/P lol.

Skill Level: I dont think it takes that much more skill to play D/P than ADV, but the players who do have more skill stand out a whole lot more, like Obi posting his team and suddenly the world catches on to Tentacruel.

Eh. Thats my two cents.
 
I agree with The Requiem, although my experience with Adv is limited.

What bad could come out of adding more things to play around with? SkarmBliss not working? Is that a bad thing?
 
Playability: DP was easier to learn for me, because I'd already learned the fundamental parts of battling in ADV. I would imagine that anyone new to either generation would have more trouble with DP though. Simply because there are more options.

Creativity: Again, I think that more options overall allows for more creativity. However, most people don't seem to be taking advantage of this in DP. Even before ADV started to get stale, I saw more unorthodox movesets and BL/UU Pokemon in ADV OU than I do in DP OU at the moment. There's plenty of people who are trying out new ideas, but it seems the majority are happy to stick standards for now. Overall, ADV was the more creative generation of the two, but that can (and hopefully WILL) change.

Prediction: Much more important in DP, in my opinion. A few poor prediction calls in ADV wouldn't always cost you the game. DP isn't as forgiving, especially as Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes make repeated switching more difficult.

Enjoyable: I may change my mind as DP develops, but for now I have to say I enjoyed ADV more. I can't really put my finger on why, but it might be as simple as having battled more in ADV.

Skill Level: I think team building skills are more important in DP than in ADV. It seemed a lot easier to simply slap together six standards and call it a team in ADV. While this still works to some degree in DP, I think those who put a deeper level of thought into their teams are rewarded more than they were in ADV.
 
Playability: If you know the basics of Advance, DP isn't that different to learn. The jump from ADV->DP wasn't as huge as GSC->ADV

Creativity: Well, since building teams is just so much harder in D/P, people tend to junk creativity for tried and tested methods. Which is why you see Obi's team being mass reproduced on Shoddy... But well, seeing as how D/P has more options, it offers you the ability to be creative, but with so many different Pokemon to deal with, it gets tough to not run standards.

Prediction: One mispredict is all it takes in D/P too screw you over. Especially since the number of threats has increased, you'll be overdependent on your walls. They die, you die, unless your sweeper somehow sets up.

Enjoyable: I liked playing Advance a hell of a lot more than this. You weren't exposed to extremely high powered sweepers which would just suddenly sweep you. Well, you were, but you weren't this vulnerable. Plus there was more room for creativity in Advance

Skill Level: Like Phuquoph said, you can't just slap together 6 standards and attempt to take on good players. Team building has gained a lot of importance now, and unless you know how to build a good team, you're going down.

Thats all I have to say.
 
I agree with gmax. I enjoying Advance more than DP, but I do like (which hasn't been addressed) the new physical/special split. It made a lot more Pokémon playable. DP has more options for teams and building teams, but I don't enjoy actually playing as much xD
 
Playability: I gotta go with D/P. The game felt a lot more playable probably since I've been playing Pokemon since the beginning.

Creativity: D/P also wins this one. With more pokemon and moves, no 2 teams are ever the same again. For example, Raichu was only so-so in Advance. But come D/P, Raichu got a complete overhall and is now tied with Electivire for having the best movepool for electric types. Manetric picked up fire moves (which gives it a reason to be used over Jolteon). With all of these new changes, I can experiment a bit more on who I add on my team and not feel like I have to choose specific pokemon to get the job done.

Prediction: With all of the new stuff going on now, prediction is a lot more difficult to do. You can do some predicting and analyzing, but trying to rely solely on that will get you killed. Team synergy is a lot more important now then it was in advance as one mistake can cost you the match. D/P is less forgiving then advance (as others have said).

Enjoyable: It depends on what aspect.

For pokemon battles, D/P.
For tm's, it's a tie. If I want more of the more common tm's, Advance wins. But if I want more of the rarer tm's that are actually going to be used more (like Earthquake), then D/P.

For gathering evolution stones, D/P. In advance, trying to snag yellow shards off of Chinchous to get a thunder stone was tedious, annoying, and very time consuming. In D/P, this problem is rectified as I can simply dig for them. The minigame to do this is relaxing, easy to get into, slightly addictive (at least to me), and the rewards are great (I have over 15 thunderstones in Diamond from digging).

For my pokemon breeding, Advance (more specifically Emerald) wins this one. While the new characteristics are nice, they still aren't as good as the IV man who was more direct. I have an Eevee in Advance that has 4 max iv's in Attack, Speed, Special Attack, and Defense. I got all of that information in less then 2 minutes from talking to the iv man. Now I don't have to do any more work in figuring out my iv's. If this same eevee was in d/p and I didn't know the ivs beforehand, I would have had to gather up a ton of rare candy or use exp share for every level to figure out iv's. Advance also has the easier clone glitch.

Skill level: If you've played Advance, then D/P will feel right at home with you since it's just more of the same for the most part. Other then the physical/special split and some other minor things, everything remains the same. The only thing that really changes in skill level is the threat of pokemon. Pokemon that were deadly in Advance (like Snorlax) aren't as much of a threat in D/P while things such as Feraligatr, Kingler, and Machamp became much more dangerous.
 
"Creativity" isn't just how many possibilities there are, it's how many of them work. This means that adding 500 new butterfly Pokemon increases the creativity level roughly not at all.

With the new offensive threats (Tyranitar got stronger massively, Garchomp pretty much wins if it CHs your Steel type, all the Dragons mean you mostly need a Steel type or a hyper-offensive team, tons of Nasty Plot Pokemon, and more), I think creativity went down, at least it appears as much now. If you try out something odd, you may just give that Nasty Plot Life Orb Infernape a chance to sweep your team.

"Prediction" isn't just a measure of how screwed you are if you mess up, it's a measure of how far ahead smart playing will get you. With how many Pokemon are capable of sweeping you right off the bat from either side of the spectrum, a lot of times it doesn't come down to prediction, but rather, guessing. You often have to make critical decisions before you have enough information to actually be able to do so. Fortunately, because of a decrease in creativity (or maybe it's just a bunch of people not being creative, but the effect is the same), you can usually guess what your opponent is using just by seeing the Pokemon.

Despite what I said above, I'm enjoying DP more than ADV, but I think a lot of that is just because of most others being uncreative, letting me come up with movesets / strategies of my own. I like the team building process, and there are a lot of teams to build. :toast:
 
Wow i actually cant remember to much about ADV but as allready said the physical/special split was a good thing(remember when everyone was like Alakazam will be unplayable without the elemental punches? well he still works)

The only thing i really miss from ADV is Focus Punch, sure its still a kickass attack but alot of pokemon is better off with Close Combat now, thats lame:(
 
RIP Creativity.

Powerhouses like PorygonZ and Specsmence have forced everybody to pack a Blissey...of course, Blissey has always been common, but now it's omnipresent. It's gotten to the point where I can predict a Blissey switch before my opponent has even revealved his/her Blissey. I quite enjoy fighting Blissey personally, but it's no longer 6 vs 6. It's more like 5 Pokemon + Blissey vs 5 Pokemon + Blissey.

Similarly, Scarfchomp forces you to pack a Steel type or Outrage will obliterate everything in time. The increased number of entry hazards means you're doomed if you don't pack a Rapid Spinner, which limits you to a handful of Pokemon...I am so sick of Starmie, Forry and Donphan.

It just seems like now more than ever, your team-building and the flow of the battle is being dictated for you. ADV just seemed much more personal and free-flowing.
 
Veteran In Love said:
playability? (in terms of being easier/harder to learn?): I can't say, since by the time D/P came around, I already knew the basics from Advance.

room for creativity? (are teams stale? do people have to use the same pokemon and teams over and over again to stand a chance?): People seem to be sticking with the things that have showed results time and time again, but some people like Bologo and Lee do make use of the multitude of usable UU pokemon.

amount of deeper-level prediction? (is a lot of prediction and second-level thought required to win consistently, or can one lean simply on team strength and strategy to win?): Yeah, prediction is pretty important, oftentimes battles will hinge on one key predict.

more enjoyable? (this is obvious): I preferred Advance, but that might be just because I liked Netbattle more than Shoddy.

requiring a higher overall skill level? (considering all aspects of the game: prediction, team building, luck): I think D/P takes a bit more skill than Advance due to the huge number of options available in team building and the importance of prediction.
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I agree with Lee. Any team you make is really limited in that you need: Rapid Spinner/ Toxic Spike Absorber, Ice Shard/Steel Wall, Special Wall (Blissey), Bliss Counter.

It really eats up your avaliable team slots since there's only a handful of pokemon that can preform those tasks well.
 
rofl, i actually enjoyed the slower gameplay of ADV, it felt more like chess. I got tired of D/P really quick, but i attribute that more to the fact that I've been playing pokemon longer (ie i'm bored of the game) rather than D/P sucks or anything
 
playability? (in terms of being easier/harder to learn?)
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Personally, I think D/P is harder to learn than Advance, simply because of the new pokemon, moves (Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes come to mind), traits, items, moves, and also the spilt in physical and special attacks.
room for creativity? (are teams stale? do people have to use the same pokemon and teams over and over again to stand a chance?)
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Well, against some of the teams I faced in both Shoddy and Netbattle, I would have to say that both equally bog-standard. I myself, am one of those people and the only generation I seem to be creative in is GSC :p
amount of deeper-level prediction? (is a lot of prediction and second-level thought required to win consistently, or can one lean simply on team strength and strategy to win?)
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DP wins my vote, simply because of the more threats involved in it than Advance. Some examples of this are Choice Specs, Choice Scarf, Life Orb, etc...
more enjoyable? (this is obvious)
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Honestly, I feel the same way about both D/P and Advance. They're both enjoyable. Yet, I prefer GSC to all the generations. In my opinion GSC > ADV = DP > RBY.
requiring a higher overall skill level? (considering all aspects of the game: prediction, team building, luck)
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DP gets my vote yet again. In my opinion, DP is just ADV on steroids. So of course more prediction is required. My opinions might be biased because I'm not exactly good at DP fyi.
 
playability? The Shift from GSC--Adv was a lot harder than Adv--DP

room for creativity? ...Yeah There is a lot left unexplored in DP imo...A lot of (newer) players have the idea of winning now so generally you'll see reused teams over and over (ie: Obi's Stall team). I feel there is a lot left to find out about DP.

amount of deeper-level prediction? eh...I feel a person can depend on their team far more than any other Gen. Simply overpowering the opp can win you the match already. Among some the high tier battlers there is some required prediction but generally you won't need it as much as other gen beside basic "he has an SE move..switch"...IMO however other may feel different...as you know me I hardly predict nor care enough to do so ._. So I prefer Adv surprisingly

more enjoyable? ATM I prefer Adv simply cause I played it more and DP seems lackluster in challenge...

requiring a higher overall skill level? feels the same really...good team building and good prediction puts you above everybody else
 
In terms of asthetics, ADV is far better than DP because you can turn off all animations and there doesn't seem to be that neferious delay of a few milliseconds that stretches things out. It's hard to describe it...all I know is that when I went back to ADV after doing some D/P Battle Tower, I was so used to waiting to do the moves and switches that the way ADV moved was unreal. It was like someone turned off slow mode.

But I find myself in ADV just wishing for so much that's in D/P...yet also conscious that other things will threaten me too if I had such-and-such D/P move or item. I'd certainly like to have an Expert Belt instead of a Lum Berry for Latios, for instance. Latios could take Shadow Balls better, but Pinsir now gets X-Scissor and there's stuff like Sucker Punch that will OHKO him. Then I come back and realize it's not that bad. Sure, Heracross' Close Combat will decimate Snorlax, but he's already 2KOed by Megahorn.

ADV already wins in my eyes because it has the Battle Frontier over the crappy Battle Tower. And I can get 16+ BP via the better on multiple rounds instead of having to battle the Tycoon on the 20th battle every time.
 
Veteran In Love said:
playability? DP is harder to get the hang of, as there are many different dimensions that ADV just doesn't have (Life Orb and Choice Specs especially) and it takes a different thought process.

room for creativity? (are teams stale? do people have to use the same pokemon and teams over and over again to stand a chance?) Teams are starting to get stale and overused (like obi's stall team, ie) but there's still plenty of room for creative ideas, more than ADV ever had.

amount of deeper-level prediction? (is a lot of prediction and second-level thought required to win consistently, or can one lean simply on team strength and strategy to win?) DP is harder in that you simply can't have everything 100% covered, so yeah, you need to predict a lot more.

more enjoyable? (this is obvious) That's debatable...

requiring a higher overall skill level? (considering all aspects of the game: prediction, team building, luck) I'd say so, but not by that much.

^^^ The upper questions are guidelines, anyone who posts should feel free to explain why they feel that way, etc.

This is not a thread which attempts to promote one game over the other, just a thread which allows people to gives personal insights on improvement of the overall PKMN metagame as it heads onward from generation to generation.

P.S This thread is really for people who have played ADV extensively as well as D/P, seeing as they can give more in-depth answers.
Click to expand...
I'll write a more fleshed-out response later.
 
I agree with Lee on the Scarfchomp thing. The advent of physical dragon moves and draco meteor force you to have a steel type on your team, whereas in advance, flying/rock/normal resist was a staple but those types are much easier to find resists for as opposed to dragon. That and the fact that Tyranitar/Salamence got even better in DP is kind of annoying but at least DP has things like Gliscor. Overall I say I enjoyed advance more since it wasn't as restricting it seems in terms of you can still fight standard teams with UU/BLish pokemon alot easier than in DP.
 
D/P is sooooooooo much better its insane.

+More Moves
+More Useful Items
+More Pokemon
+Physical/Special Split is the most amazing thing ever
+EV Training Items are super awesome
+Auto Leveling is again super amazing, no more grinding teams to lvl 100 or being stuck with lvl 50 teams missing moves learned past 50

Seriously... I would go insane if I had to compete under the Adv metagame again.
 
playability? DP is very hard to learn, but ADV is easier. Heck, I taught two guys how to play on Netbattle in less than half an hour.

room for creativity? DP teams can be more creative, but a reason I avoid playing on Shoddy is that people copy good teams, like Obi's. ADV teams, theres only so far you can go, but generally teams won't be copied and used. Also, with the way it looks in DP, every team is required to have X in order to not be torn apart by Y, which limits your choices.

amount of deeper-level prediction? DP is harder to predict in, mostly because of new moves.

more enjoyable? ADV is more enjoyable, mostly because I've played it more.

requiring a higher overall skill level? Despite what I've said, I believe ADV requires more skill to succeed in.
 
Why, oh why, did D/P not include even a single new Rapid Spinner? Not that it'd really do any good, as most rapid spinners fail to get past Spiritomb or Dusknoir anyways.
 
Playablity: i'd say that the changes from ADV --> DP are almost so easy to get used to that there is hardly any change at all if you came out of advance gen, but i agree that the change from GSC to ADV was more of a change than this one.

Room for creativeness: oh fuck yes there is i agree with the last time someone said "for all the anti stall and what not countermeasure put in DP hardly anyone seems to be using them" also with the physcial/special split so many more pokemon are just waiting to be used now that they aren't stuck with sucky special only or physcial only stab anymore.

amount of deeper-level prediction?: oh fuck with shit like scarfchomp and the like waiting to tear up your shit if you screw up oh hell the need to play it smart has gone up ALOT from advance gone is the days were you can just send out stuff like a bulky water or 2 and wall by stats alone now you need resists to do do so has well has stats.

more enjoyable?: oh hell yes alot of my favorite pokemon finally can acually use their stab now also no more generic bulky water walling that is rampant in previous 2 gens

requiring a higher overall skill level?: yes simply because one can't get away with slaping 6 random pokemon together and calling it a team because in D/P doesn't let you get away with that anymore against a person who knows what he/she is doing anymore (although this was somewhat true in advance D/P's changings made doing so alot tougher)
 
playability? ADV

room for creativity? ADV

amount of deeper-level prediction? DP

more enjoyable? Undecided (Leaning towards ADV)

requiring a higher overall skill level? DP
 
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