Dammit, I forgot about that...Frickin Game Freak..
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AAA Almost Any Ability
- Thread starter Jrdn
- Start date
Dammit, I forgot about that...Frickin Game Freak..
Suicune is a bulky wall that can set up CMs and pmuch shit on any special attacker while being practically immune to Poison (cause Pheal). Manaphy is more of a wallbreaker, often runs Waterium Z and isn't much of a wall.
Someone probs can explain this better than me but *shrug*
Suicune is bulkier, and therefore better for defensive roles, but Manaphy gets tail glow, giving it more immediate power. Suicune can gradually set up with calm mind, but it's easily hazed on. Manaphy is much stronger after just one boost, allowing you to hit a slower pokemon hard before it can haze (e.g toxapex with psychic).
Manaphy is also better for regenvest because of U-turn and also Knock for utility
Does this tier have a discord?
It's been a while, just wanted to share a team I enjoy using!
FairyMag HO (submitting for sample teams)
This is one of my favourite and best teams to use, Tinted Lens Magearna + Mawile alone can lure/break through fairy checks but Magnet Pull Victini is extra insurance for things like opposing RegenVest Magearna. The team has a really BW-esque feel to it and it's really fun, feels like running DragMag in modern play.
FairyMag HO (submitting for sample teams)
This is one of my favourite and best teams to use, Tinted Lens Magearna + Mawile alone can lure/break through fairy checks but Magnet Pull Victini is extra insurance for things like opposing RegenVest Magearna. The team has a really BW-esque feel to it and it's really fun, feels like running DragMag in modern play.
Super new to AAA, but built this team recently and wanted to get better so here I am. It’s super bad, but I wanted to build around Magic Guard Blacephalon to nuke things with mind blown, and also shut down Chansey. Excadrill is meant to shut down AV Magearna, but fighting moves are bad. Genesect is there because I needed a scarfed and I also wanted an ate-speeder, and Ferro is my rocker and mixed wall. I have AV Regen Muk to wall most special attackers, and then band TL Buzzwole. I know the team is definitely bad, so could someone give some feedback?
Hi, first of all so sorry this has gone unnoticed for so long. Even being new to AAA, you definitely have a solid start considering the mons and respective abilities you chose.
Blace is a great mon to start with, considering it basically beats almost everything except hard Regen vest counters like mana. Anyways coming to the set, wisp doesn't really work for the simple reason most of blace counters are flash fire and it doesn't have the bulk to even withstand other burnt physical hits. So going knock off over wisp has great merits, since it allows you to 2hko Alolan muk, chansey with mind blown. As for last slot, you can even try substitute for free af subs on chansey etc on stall and dismantling the playstyle.
Again your team doesn't necessarily need magpull but it's rather weak to CM taunt fini. So you can switch around the exca to water absorb variant, you can even keep the z nuke to bop the incoming buzzwole.
As for the rest of the team, your defensive core is quite solid tho you could argue skarmory over Ferro with same ability could decrease your susceptibility to aerialate landorus, but that's optional and does take away your water resist. Anyways you do need ice punch on muk over fire seeing how weak you are to noivern which unfortunately can't really be altered much without changing the basic structure.
As for buzz you might like how the triage variant might mesh with the team over tinted one giving you another prio, you can take the set from the setpedia on the resources thread.
Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Focus Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Psychic / Vacuum Wave / Shadow Ball or Dark Pulse
This is a fun breaker I've been running recently. It, in theory, smashes through basically all of the SpD walls in the tier.
Psychic is almost entirely for Toxapex, although it will come in handy against some other Poison types like uhhhhh Tentacruel the boss. If you have Pex covered by other teammates Vacuum Wave can be used to give more utility against offensive teams. Shadow Ball or Dark Pulse enable you to hit Victini on switchin, Blacephalon on switchin,
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 341-403 (112.1 - 132.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 619-733 (96.4 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 292-344 (70.7 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 265-313 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Manaphy: 292-344 (72.4 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 324-382 (94.4 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Mandibuzz: 227-269 (53.6 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 619-733 (96.4 - 114.1%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Muk-Alola: 292-344 (70.7 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Magearna: 265-313 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Manaphy: 292-344 (72.4 - 85.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Tapu Fini: 324-382 (94.4 - 111.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Poison Heal
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Lucario Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Mandibuzz: 227-269 (53.6 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Basically Lucario will OHKO most defensive Pokemon in the metagame after some chip, and 2HKO almost everything regardless of chip. Notably most of the Pokemon that are avoiding OHKOs after Nasty Plot that have any way of doing anything back are regenvesters, which can be work down into KO range with rocks and unboosted hits providing you keep the pressure on and don't let them in for free with other teammates. Lucario can also lure in Pokemon that are used to check the Tough Claws or -ate sets which are more common and dent or KO them or just steal set up turns.
Despite its power however Lucario has some major drawbacks.
1-Focus Blast. Accuracy sucks. Any 2hko that requires two Focus Hits in a row has less than a 50% chance of actually happening. When possible use Focus Blast into Flash Cannon, but even then it's an incredibly unreliable move. When possible you should ideally play this set so that Lucario is forcing the opponent to rely on you missing, rather than you relying on hitting (IE, you are in a situation where even if you miss you don't lose Lucario, you can still maintain offensive momentum / pressure, stuff like that. This requires good plays and good teambuilding.)
2- Speed. Lucario isn't fast for an offensive Pokemon. It's outsped and forced out by offensive juggernauts like Landorus-Therian and Victini who really don't mind switching in once or twice. Even if it ran coverage for these Pokemon it's forced to hit them on switch-in which, while better than doing little to nothing, isn't ideal. It also makes Lucario serious deadweight against most offensive teams without Vacuum Wave, and even with Vacuum Wave there are Pokemon like Tapu Koko, Victini, Mega Alakazam, etc. etc. on most offensive teams that tank Vacuum Wave easily.
3- Frailty. To my mind this is the least important of the three major flaws Lucario has. It's not tanky at all, but you shouldn't be trying to tank hits with it. What Lucario is good at is tearing apart or applying huge amounts of pressure to slower tankier builds, and that doesn't require taking hits from powerful Pokemon. Still, being frail severely limits Lucario's setup opportunities, and prevents it from doing anything against offensive teams where its outsped (see flaw 2) and often gets OHKO'd. (for reference 252 Atk Aerilate Landorus-Therian Frustration vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 289-342 (102.8 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO)
Despite these flaws Lucario is good at doing what it wants to. I wouldn't say its a top tier Pokemon or anything, mostly because it's really matchup dependent, but it's fun and I've seen it do some impressive things to unprepared teams.
I'll post some replays once I bother to save some.
minor but
funbot’s sample has 204 def / 52+ spe, while i can do this and get 8 extra def points
funbot’s sample has 204 def / 52+ spe, while i can do this and get 8 extra def points
So admittedly, I'm not an AAA main, but I do enjoy playing the metagame and I'd like to bring something up that's always kind of baffled me as we're on the eve of Generation 8.
Why is Ability Clause allowing 2 abilities?
Now, realistically, there's no reason it should be 2 as opposed to 3, 4, 5, or 6, other than to reduce the passive recovery on a team or to reduce the net offensive power of a team to the point where it's unwallable. But where was it decided that 2 is fine? What makes 2 any better than any of the other numbers, other than having less of it?
Don't get me wrong - I know that 3, 4, 5, or 6 abilities on the same team could be ridiculously uncompetitive. Tinted Lens is already a very scary ability, and having to deal with the possibility of 2 users is terrifying. But why is it 2?
I think the ability clause should be changed, preferably to one ability. The reason is that 2 promotes endless battles - If you have two Regenerator Pokemon and your opponent has 2 Regenerator Pokemon, or if you have a Pokemon that cannot outdamage your opponent's Regenerator, etc... These are all endless battle situations. And from what I've seen, there's really no reason an Ability Clause should be at exactly 2, which seems to just be arbitrary. Now, I can see the counterpoints coming, and I'll do my best to address most of them.
1) If we limit Ability Clause to one ability per team, it doesn't stop people from creating endless battles.
To which I reply - Since when has the ability to cause endless battles been a result of one thing in particular? Stuff like Funbro, Leppa Berry stall, and other concepts have all been dealt with in an attempt to axe endless battles, and yet it's still an issue. The point of this proposal isn't to axe endless battles entirely, but reduce the likelihood of it happening.
2) There's legitimate uses for dual abilities on a team.
I'll admit this is true. Weather teams, terrain teams and teams which opt to run dual Tinted Lens, Adaptability, etc. will be hit hard by this. However, it's my belief that reducing the abilities on endless battle clauses has the ability to promote creativity, skill, and competitiveness. When you have two weather setters on a team, you can play fairly relaxed most of the time as you only really need to keep one of them alive if your wincon is dependent on having weather up, while your opponent has pretty much lost the matchup as once they've dealt with one setter, they have to deal with the next as well. And weather teams, which are generally offensive in nature, will probably have won the game by then unless they're playing stall (in which case I hope they've won the game, because stall is aids.) With a change in the ability clause, it'd promote more careful playing in the battle, while also making it a lot more taxing to put an ability on a Pokemon, as once you've put that ability on a Pokemon, you cannot use it on the same team. This would also increase the opportunity cost of running broken threats such as Terrakion, Kartana, and other things (though honestly, they'd still be broken and probably still be banned.) You'd have to decide which Pokemon deserves Tinted Lens or Adaptability more, which is a really large decision to make and would overall make building easier defensively, since the overall threat level of the meta would decrease as a result of there being less threatening Pokemon on the opponent's team.
3) Endless battles aren't actually a thing on the ladder because of the turn limit, and there's policies in place in tournaments to deal with the scenario of an endless battle.
While this is true, the 1000 turn limit isn't a great solution. For this, I'm going to reference my battle vs Chloe in the first edition of OM Snake Draft - While it's in Camomons, I believe the concerns I have with the 1000 turn limit still apply here. In that game, my browser started lagging and I kept disconnecting throughout the game, which made getting back into the battle a difficult experience and consistently reduced my timer. It turned the battle into a competition not of skill or positioning, but of who could last the longest, who had the most free time and who had the better Internet and computer. This isn't something a Pokemon game should come down to. The goal of every meta should be to promote skill and competitiveness. I believe nerfing the Ability Clause is an important step in this direction, as it reduces the amount of means by which this endgame can be achieved.
In tournaments, it's true that the general idea is to replay a game if an endless game is achieved. However, if an endless game is achieved and you do have to replay, then you have more limited time to prepare, as your previous preparation pretty much just went down the drain. One could argue that this situation has never arisen - But why risk it? Why have people play a metagame where this is a very real possibility instead of acknowledging the potential problem before it becomes a problem?
Now, I'm aware that most of the points I've brought up here are related to only AAA really, but I do think this plays a part in BH too as well as smaller OMs (since they're kind of forced to take this clause on), so I think that if a decision is made, it should be with the interest of all of the affected tiers.
I'd like to get the AAA council's input on this, as well as the OM Leaders as they have a hand in policy as well. Since this will also impact BH, I'll tag its leader (although he's also an OM leader, I believe input from him both as an OM leader and a BH leader is important.) I will also be tagging players who have played the metagames in OMWC and AAA & BH Open Semifinals, since those are the two most recent showings and I'm far too lazy to go through the rest. Also tagging motherlove because that guy's hella smart.
Note that if I did tag you, you're not obliged to chip in, and if you're not tagged then your input is just as welcome as the rest. The tags are just so people who play the metagames affected can see this.
(sorry in advance for the tagspam!)
e: regirock wanted a tag
Why is Ability Clause allowing 2 abilities?
Now, realistically, there's no reason it should be 2 as opposed to 3, 4, 5, or 6, other than to reduce the passive recovery on a team or to reduce the net offensive power of a team to the point where it's unwallable. But where was it decided that 2 is fine? What makes 2 any better than any of the other numbers, other than having less of it?
Don't get me wrong - I know that 3, 4, 5, or 6 abilities on the same team could be ridiculously uncompetitive. Tinted Lens is already a very scary ability, and having to deal with the possibility of 2 users is terrifying. But why is it 2?
I think the ability clause should be changed, preferably to one ability. The reason is that 2 promotes endless battles - If you have two Regenerator Pokemon and your opponent has 2 Regenerator Pokemon, or if you have a Pokemon that cannot outdamage your opponent's Regenerator, etc... These are all endless battle situations. And from what I've seen, there's really no reason an Ability Clause should be at exactly 2, which seems to just be arbitrary. Now, I can see the counterpoints coming, and I'll do my best to address most of them.
1) If we limit Ability Clause to one ability per team, it doesn't stop people from creating endless battles.
To which I reply - Since when has the ability to cause endless battles been a result of one thing in particular? Stuff like Funbro, Leppa Berry stall, and other concepts have all been dealt with in an attempt to axe endless battles, and yet it's still an issue. The point of this proposal isn't to axe endless battles entirely, but reduce the likelihood of it happening.
2) There's legitimate uses for dual abilities on a team.
I'll admit this is true. Weather teams, terrain teams and teams which opt to run dual Tinted Lens, Adaptability, etc. will be hit hard by this. However, it's my belief that reducing the abilities on endless battle clauses has the ability to promote creativity, skill, and competitiveness. When you have two weather setters on a team, you can play fairly relaxed most of the time as you only really need to keep one of them alive if your wincon is dependent on having weather up, while your opponent has pretty much lost the matchup as once they've dealt with one setter, they have to deal with the next as well. And weather teams, which are generally offensive in nature, will probably have won the game by then unless they're playing stall (in which case I hope they've won the game, because stall is aids.) With a change in the ability clause, it'd promote more careful playing in the battle, while also making it a lot more taxing to put an ability on a Pokemon, as once you've put that ability on a Pokemon, you cannot use it on the same team. This would also increase the opportunity cost of running broken threats such as Terrakion, Kartana, and other things (though honestly, they'd still be broken and probably still be banned.) You'd have to decide which Pokemon deserves Tinted Lens or Adaptability more, which is a really large decision to make and would overall make building easier defensively, since the overall threat level of the meta would decrease as a result of there being less threatening Pokemon on the opponent's team.
3) Endless battles aren't actually a thing on the ladder because of the turn limit, and there's policies in place in tournaments to deal with the scenario of an endless battle.
While this is true, the 1000 turn limit isn't a great solution. For this, I'm going to reference my battle vs Chloe in the first edition of OM Snake Draft - While it's in Camomons, I believe the concerns I have with the 1000 turn limit still apply here. In that game, my browser started lagging and I kept disconnecting throughout the game, which made getting back into the battle a difficult experience and consistently reduced my timer. It turned the battle into a competition not of skill or positioning, but of who could last the longest, who had the most free time and who had the better Internet and computer. This isn't something a Pokemon game should come down to. The goal of every meta should be to promote skill and competitiveness. I believe nerfing the Ability Clause is an important step in this direction, as it reduces the amount of means by which this endgame can be achieved.
In tournaments, it's true that the general idea is to replay a game if an endless game is achieved. However, if an endless game is achieved and you do have to replay, then you have more limited time to prepare, as your previous preparation pretty much just went down the drain. One could argue that this situation has never arisen - But why risk it? Why have people play a metagame where this is a very real possibility instead of acknowledging the potential problem before it becomes a problem?
Now, I'm aware that most of the points I've brought up here are related to only AAA really, but I do think this plays a part in BH too as well as smaller OMs (since they're kind of forced to take this clause on), so I think that if a decision is made, it should be with the interest of all of the affected tiers.
I'd like to get the AAA council's input on this, as well as the OM Leaders as they have a hand in policy as well. Since this will also impact BH, I'll tag its leader (although he's also an OM leader, I believe input from him both as an OM leader and a BH leader is important.) I will also be tagging players who have played the metagames in OMWC and AAA & BH Open Semifinals, since those are the two most recent showings and I'm far too lazy to go through the rest. Also tagging motherlove because that guy's hella smart.
AAA Council:
Jrdn Racool Sylveon. Funbot28
BH Leader:
E4 Flint
OM Leadership:
E4 Flint The Immortal Ransei
AAA OMWC Players:
Hamhamhamham Jrdn Xayah byronthewellwell skysolo14 Sabella Snaquaza rozes Mark_K The Immortal Sylveon. In The Hills Aaronboyer tysequaine frisoeva
BH OMWC Players:
SuperSkylake E4 Flint MAMP Willdbeast GL Volkner (hey look it's me :D) morogrim Chessking345 tzop DF-Shock jasprose Klang Quantum Tesseract Aethernum Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request) byronthewellwell
AAA Open Semifinalists:
Plas highlighter Quantum Tesseract rozes xavgb Chloe
BH Open Semifinalists:
MAMP highlighter sugarhigh Akashi
Jrdn Racool Sylveon. Funbot28
BH Leader:
E4 Flint
OM Leadership:
E4 Flint The Immortal Ransei
AAA OMWC Players:
Hamhamhamham Jrdn Xayah byronthewellwell skysolo14 Sabella Snaquaza rozes Mark_K The Immortal Sylveon. In The Hills Aaronboyer tysequaine frisoeva
BH OMWC Players:
SuperSkylake E4 Flint MAMP Willdbeast GL Volkner (hey look it's me :D) morogrim Chessking345 tzop DF-Shock jasprose Klang Quantum Tesseract Aethernum Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request) byronthewellwell
AAA Open Semifinalists:
Plas highlighter Quantum Tesseract rozes xavgb Chloe
BH Open Semifinalists:
MAMP highlighter sugarhigh Akashi
(sorry in advance for the tagspam!)
e: regirock wanted a tag
I won't speak about metagame effects but policy-wise, I've never liked the clause being limited to 2. As mentioned above, it's arbitrary and it doesn't follow any precedents (Smogon clauses such as Species or even Sleep are 1 limit, Nintendo clauses are 1 limit, etc...). And it sets a bad example for smaller or newer OMs in that they would assume it's fine to limit w/e mechanic their meta follows to have a limitation of 2, or any higher number for that matter.
I was staunchly against going for two at the time of its creation (can look through my post history at the time) however I was not the BH leader at the time and that ended up forming the precedent. It was definitely more of an impact on AAA esp last gen where I felt it would’ve prevented a bunch of bans. From my previous conversations about it, I do feel that at this stage though it might be better to start it that way next gen.
I'll be the first to admit, I think 2 is arbitrary, but I've honestly felt that about any number of limitations. If an ability is broken when too many people have it, it shouldn't be allowed. I also don't see having the limit taken away as beign that big of a problem. Only a handful of abilities are really usable on more than two mons at a time, like regen and adapt. If you try and put in 6 tinted lens users you're going to struggle.
Just remove it outright, the changes will be minimal and require few to no bans.
Just remove it outright, the changes will be minimal and require few to no bans.
im glad this is finally brought up.
always been that guy who always asked why is it 2 and why arent all of the abilities clauses across the metagames just 1 like everything else
i believe 1 as a limit is standard and good for the competitive scene.
Teambuilding for every meta(esp AAA) that is affected by this will improve. it feels nice not having to worry about 2 unawares/2 tinted lens/2 phs or 2 of anything. it makes scouting easy and more effective while playing AAA and thats good.
im sure everyone hated those duel combo abilities on teams such as duel tinted lens/duel regen in particular. The viability of pokemon and teambuilding will be changed a bit and impacted positively. Its the main reason why i drifted from AAA, i felt like alot of previous bans even could have been influenced if this change came about earlier.
for bh, im not too sure about how it would affect the metagame because from my experience having 2 tinted lens mons or 2 of anything in bh doesnt have the same effect it does in AAA however if any change were to happen in bh due this change, the impact will be very minimum, though i believe this change is great and should be done now before gen 8 or at least at the start of gen 8, with armored evolution being confirmed and all, we are about to be blessed with some broken mons and abilities once again.
always been that guy who always asked why is it 2 and why arent all of the abilities clauses across the metagames just 1 like everything else
i believe 1 as a limit is standard and good for the competitive scene.
Teambuilding for every meta(esp AAA) that is affected by this will improve. it feels nice not having to worry about 2 unawares/2 tinted lens/2 phs or 2 of anything. it makes scouting easy and more effective while playing AAA and thats good.
im sure everyone hated those duel combo abilities on teams such as duel tinted lens/duel regen in particular. The viability of pokemon and teambuilding will be changed a bit and impacted positively. Its the main reason why i drifted from AAA, i felt like alot of previous bans even could have been influenced if this change came about earlier.
for bh, im not too sure about how it would affect the metagame because from my experience having 2 tinted lens mons or 2 of anything in bh doesnt have the same effect it does in AAA however if any change were to happen in bh due this change, the impact will be very minimum, though i believe this change is great and should be done now before gen 8 or at least at the start of gen 8, with armored evolution being confirmed and all, we are about to be blessed with some broken mons and abilities once again.
Ability Clause should be changed from 2 to 0
I have seen (and have been) in too many situations where one of the 2 players in a battle is left with a two regen mons and there is no way to break it, or on the on the other hand, a team built entirely with 3 offensive abilities like though claws, tinted and adaptability and it's just a "click the stab and win". I agree with the fresh new start
Frankly I have always been a proponent of changing the ability clause to 1, for the simple sole reason of diversity as bland as that sounds. While the 2 ability clause affected the Gen 6 vastly, due to it revolving around PH a lot more than this Gen does. But it'll still be a huge meta-game shift, in general, not so much for offensive teams since repetition of abilities except possible tinted cores, isn't that good a strategy for breaking purposes. But defensively oriented teams will really face the brunt of it in general.
Its not as if its not possible, some of you will be aware of a Klang stall, which was being spammed through-out the AAA open, consisting of 6 mons with 6 different abilities and still it was near perfect.
But in my opinion, the biggest standing point against it will be how near OMPL is right now, and it unfortunately being the biggest testing ground for AAA these days, if we introduce a decently big change to the meta-game just a month prior to it, how much will it affect the stability of the current meta-game, which i think has been super stable after weavile's exit. It's easy to theory-mon that yeah it won't really affect the meta much, but due to the power-creep in Gen 7, its always hard to see if any or what offensive mon might go out of hand, and might even result in multiple bans.
So basically my point being, while I am all up for single ability clause, but if we want to try it in the remaining Gen 7, might as well do it as soon as today, since everyone who has shared their opinion seem to be on the same wavelength, or wait till after OMPL. Because whatever ability clause, last thing we want is a unstable meta-game which hasn't been tested properly in OMPL.
Also I dont like doing this, but
Its not as if its not possible, some of you will be aware of a Klang stall, which was being spammed through-out the AAA open, consisting of 6 mons with 6 different abilities and still it was near perfect.
But in my opinion, the biggest standing point against it will be how near OMPL is right now, and it unfortunately being the biggest testing ground for AAA these days, if we introduce a decently big change to the meta-game just a month prior to it, how much will it affect the stability of the current meta-game, which i think has been super stable after weavile's exit. It's easy to theory-mon that yeah it won't really affect the meta much, but due to the power-creep in Gen 7, its always hard to see if any or what offensive mon might go out of hand, and might even result in multiple bans.
So basically my point being, while I am all up for single ability clause, but if we want to try it in the remaining Gen 7, might as well do it as soon as today, since everyone who has shared their opinion seem to be on the same wavelength, or wait till after OMPL. Because whatever ability clause, last thing we want is a unstable meta-game which hasn't been tested properly in OMPL.
Also I dont like doing this, but
"click the stab and win" is just blatantly disregarding the meta-game. I get you might have your qualms with the metagame for some reason, but trying to undermine it instead of offering a constructive opinion is never the solution. If thats really the problem you are facing, you might need to work on the teams you are using.
nooooooo my stall double regeeeeen xD
I think that in AAA it could be a great idea... But in BH, except regen in stall, PH, contrary and fur coat there is no many double ability
I think that in AAA it could be a great idea... But in BH, except regen in stall, PH, contrary and fur coat there is no many double ability
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That’s hardly unique to regen, and honestly isn’t any more the case here than in standard. Banning dual regen won’t solve the problem that refraining from using PP will often be the best strategy.
Despite my inactive period, I will give my opinion. (Sorry for my bad English)
AAA: I'm not a player of this OM but seems good to me.
BH : The most of teams had only one ability for each mon, so it won't change the meta a lot. But this new clause can be useful.
Regevest : Can be painful. some Endless Battle Clause situation... But isn't the only way to do that... A imposter + a Regeforce can to the same thing (look at my replay on my signature to look that). I think it could be a reason to change this clause...
PH: Is not too powerful for me.
Imposter: Is not too powerful, but limit the PPstall.
Contrary: YES, you can beat one (hardly) but two is so hard to deal with it... The new clause will nerf that and it is a great point for me.
Adapt/Tinted Lens... : It will be nice, you can do a lot of abuse with this kind of abilities.
Finally I agree with the new Abilities clause, can nerf some things in BH like Double Contrary, Double Regevest...
AAA: I'm not a player of this OM but seems good to me.
BH : The most of teams had only one ability for each mon, so it won't change the meta a lot. But this new clause can be useful.
Regevest : Can be painful. some Endless Battle Clause situation... But isn't the only way to do that... A imposter + a Regeforce can to the same thing (look at my replay on my signature to look that). I think it could be a reason to change this clause...
PH: Is not too powerful for me.
Imposter: Is not too powerful, but limit the PPstall.
Contrary: YES, you can beat one (hardly) but two is so hard to deal with it... The new clause will nerf that and it is a great point for me.
Adapt/Tinted Lens... : It will be nice, you can do a lot of abuse with this kind of abilities.
Finally I agree with the new Abilities clause, can nerf some things in BH like Double Contrary, Double Regevest...
Just wanted to post a couple of teams I found success w/ on the ladder
There isn't really a ton to say about this team; just lead Krookodile, set up rocks if it's free, eq/knock off to beat counterleads, and taunt to stop immediate defog. After that, it's really just a matter of picking which of the offensive mons makes it hardest for the opposing team to get off a free defog. Personally, I like Blacephon into eventual explosion as a countermeasure. Zapdos is the magic bouncer/emergency defogger of this team so you don't get 6-0ed by flash fire ferrothorn, other than that it's just a bunch of hard-hitters. The goal is just to hit everything as hard as possible so they can't recover. Scarfed Victini could be used over banded, but at the cost of A LOT of damage.
Edit: Also experimented with
Gengar set over Blacephalon to better deal with the physical attackers (ttar, muk) that annoy blace, while still maintaining that role of a strong special ghost
This team is basically centered around the main stall core of unaware chansey for basically every special setup sweeper; pheal tapu fini (staple mon) to blanket cover physical attackers and other tapu finis while also providing defog and scald burn fishing; spdef pheal snorlax so Noivern doesn't 6-0 at lead (snorlax can also kinda handle volcarona if you switch immediately and click facade-chansey exists though); and regen doublade to beat things like snorlax, buzzwole (even if they have earthquake, you toxic for free and double into buzzwole), Tapu Koko-ish(doublade can switch into pretty much every hit and forces it to take recoil for free if they choose to wild charge), and even the occasional mega medicham. The flash fire buzzwole is my main victini switchin--it pretty much nullifies every physical set and doesn't mourn too much from being tricked a scarf/band; it can also switch into physical setup sweepers such as kommo-o and garchomp to do a lot of dmg w/ ice punch and be a nuisance. Onto the flavor mon...Magic Bounce flyinium talonflame. Honestly, I'm not completely sure why this set works, but it definitely does. Ferrothorn is completely shut down as long as this is alive, and even if they have gyro ball you roost until they switch out or run out of pp. The benefit of having this over let's say mbounce zapdos is that setup sweepers such as kommo-o and garchomp don't get a free turn to swords dance/SD. They either have to attack, switch out, or take the dmg from the z move.
Not completely sure how submitting to sample teams works, but maybe they could be added? (Who knows)
Tapu Koko @ Choice Band
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- U-turn
- Wild Charge
- Roost
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- U-turn
- Switcheroo
- Defog
Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- U-turn
- Bolt Strike
- Trick
Blacephalon @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Mind Blown
- Shadow Ball
- Knock Off
- Explosion
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Discharge
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
Krookodile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Taunt
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- U-turn
- Wild Charge
- Roost
Noivern @ Choice Specs
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- U-turn
- Switcheroo
- Defog
Victini @ Choice Band
Ability: Desolate Land
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- V-create
- U-turn
- Bolt Strike
- Trick
Blacephalon @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Mind Blown
- Shadow Ball
- Knock Off
- Explosion
Zapdos @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 240 Def / 20 Spe
Bold Nature
- Discharge
- U-turn
- Defog
- Roost
Krookodile @ Focus Sash
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Taunt
There isn't really a ton to say about this team; just lead Krookodile, set up rocks if it's free, eq/knock off to beat counterleads, and taunt to stop immediate defog. After that, it's really just a matter of picking which of the offensive mons makes it hardest for the opposing team to get off a free defog. Personally, I like Blacephon into eventual explosion as a countermeasure. Zapdos is the magic bouncer/emergency defogger of this team so you don't get 6-0ed by flash fire ferrothorn, other than that it's just a bunch of hard-hitters. The goal is just to hit everything as hard as possible so they can't recover. Scarfed Victini could be used over banded, but at the cost of A LOT of damage.
Edit: Also experimented with
Gengar @ Focus Sash
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Destiny Bond
- Counter
Ability: Adaptability
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Destiny Bond
- Counter
Snorlax @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Facade
- Curse
- Protect
- Earthquake
Tapu Fini @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Defog
- Protect
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Refresh
- Soft-Boiled
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def
Brave Nature
- Swords Dance
- Toxic
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
Buzzwole @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Ice Punch
Talonflame @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost
Ability: Poison Heal
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Facade
- Curse
- Protect
- Earthquake
Tapu Fini @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Scald
- Defog
- Protect
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Impish Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Stealth Rock
- Refresh
- Soft-Boiled
Doublade @ Eviolite
Ability: Regenerator
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 240 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def
Brave Nature
- Swords Dance
- Toxic
- Sacred Sword
- Shadow Sneak
Buzzwole @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Drain Punch
- Roost
- Bulk Up
- Ice Punch
Talonflame @ Flyinium Z
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Roost
This team is basically centered around the main stall core of unaware chansey for basically every special setup sweeper; pheal tapu fini (staple mon) to blanket cover physical attackers and other tapu finis while also providing defog and scald burn fishing; spdef pheal snorlax so Noivern doesn't 6-0 at lead (snorlax can also kinda handle volcarona if you switch immediately and click facade-chansey exists though); and regen doublade to beat things like snorlax, buzzwole (even if they have earthquake, you toxic for free and double into buzzwole), Tapu Koko-ish(doublade can switch into pretty much every hit and forces it to take recoil for free if they choose to wild charge), and even the occasional mega medicham. The flash fire buzzwole is my main victini switchin--it pretty much nullifies every physical set and doesn't mourn too much from being tricked a scarf/band; it can also switch into physical setup sweepers such as kommo-o and garchomp to do a lot of dmg w/ ice punch and be a nuisance. Onto the flavor mon...Magic Bounce flyinium talonflame. Honestly, I'm not completely sure why this set works, but it definitely does. Ferrothorn is completely shut down as long as this is alive, and even if they have gyro ball you roost until they switch out or run out of pp. The benefit of having this over let's say mbounce zapdos is that setup sweepers such as kommo-o and garchomp don't get a free turn to swords dance/SD. They either have to attack, switch out, or take the dmg from the z move.
Not completely sure how submitting to sample teams works, but maybe they could be added? (Who knows)
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I think I'm gonna agree with Quantum Tesseract on this one.
I don't see the 2 to 1 ability clause changing a lot, I've counted from the 7 teams I built since "coming back" none of them have duplicate abilities (they're all at least somewhat offensive).
I think by far the most affected here is stall's ability to run dual unaware, dual unaware is far more important than dual PH or Regen imo.
For me, and again going off quantum tesseract's post, the problem may boil down to regenerator being too powerful.
Regenerator has become the prime way to safely pivot on your breaker/offensive mon with 0 risk and at 0 cost, you can do it as many times as you want in the game, you lose absolutely nothing from it. I've found it to completely skew some matchups to who has the more useful regenerator in this game.
Manaphy, Magearna and muk are super popular now because they pivot on basically everything for free and continuously annoy through the entire game, it's impossible to wear down.
You also instantly get the momentum back which is often huge in offence matchups.
Regenvest is also worth bringing up because of how well it pairs with regenerator, it turns mons into ridiculous defensive behemoths that can scout and pivot on anything it's kinda ridiculous.
Having the correct regen mon for the matchup means you essentially never let go of momentum and render some mons in the opposing team completely useless by virtue of existing.
The difference between regen and other walls/counters is that you never have to heal, you never give your opponent a free turn to get back momentum.
In order to not lose momentum that's when you start to see stuff like ppl switching their regen mons on regen mons. Slippery slope.
My problem with infinite battles and whatnot seems to boil down mainly to regen pivots being overpowered overall.
To quickly compare it to BH, in BH setup is far more readily available so regen mons can't just continuously pivot around risk-free. You have far more opportunities for what hazards you may wish to run. And regen is also giving momentum to the opponent's Imposter. I think it's much easier to deal with over there. In aaa it's just too much.
Edit: In short I would prefer to go with QT's suggestion and remove ability clause entirely and following that suspect regenerator.
I don't see the 2 to 1 ability clause changing a lot, I've counted from the 7 teams I built since "coming back" none of them have duplicate abilities (they're all at least somewhat offensive).
I think by far the most affected here is stall's ability to run dual unaware, dual unaware is far more important than dual PH or Regen imo.
For me, and again going off quantum tesseract's post, the problem may boil down to regenerator being too powerful.
Regenerator has become the prime way to safely pivot on your breaker/offensive mon with 0 risk and at 0 cost, you can do it as many times as you want in the game, you lose absolutely nothing from it. I've found it to completely skew some matchups to who has the more useful regenerator in this game.
Manaphy, Magearna and muk are super popular now because they pivot on basically everything for free and continuously annoy through the entire game, it's impossible to wear down.
You also instantly get the momentum back which is often huge in offence matchups.
Regenvest is also worth bringing up because of how well it pairs with regenerator, it turns mons into ridiculous defensive behemoths that can scout and pivot on anything it's kinda ridiculous.
Having the correct regen mon for the matchup means you essentially never let go of momentum and render some mons in the opposing team completely useless by virtue of existing.
The difference between regen and other walls/counters is that you never have to heal, you never give your opponent a free turn to get back momentum.
In order to not lose momentum that's when you start to see stuff like ppl switching their regen mons on regen mons. Slippery slope.
My problem with infinite battles and whatnot seems to boil down mainly to regen pivots being overpowered overall.
To quickly compare it to BH, in BH setup is far more readily available so regen mons can't just continuously pivot around risk-free. You have far more opportunities for what hazards you may wish to run. And regen is also giving momentum to the opponent's Imposter. I think it's much easier to deal with over there. In aaa it's just too much.
Edit: In short I would prefer to go with QT's suggestion and remove ability clause entirely and following that suspect regenerator.
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has anyone ever seen any success w/ specs water spout primordial sea blastoise in AAA ?