I never claimed to know everything on every team. I did, however manage to already accomplish what I was told I hadn’t done.
That was his basis for saying I don’t know anyways.
Please don’t pretend I said I know everything, I do however, have the knowledge of the metagame and the variances that occur during teambuilding, surprise coverage moves, and nuances as the metagame evolved for Gen 7.
That’s all I was addressing, and made clear in my quote, which you then made it seem like I am saying I know all, when my point was I know how different types of teams work in function.
I didn’t keep posting everything in theory. A calculation isn’t a theory, it’s a fact.
You posting about Venusaur having a niche without providing a single replay was, in fact, theory because there was no evidence you used it to great effect. In your current replays, you admit they are not ideal in evidence to show its niche, also leading us to believe that Venusaur-Mega might have theoretically been okay or even good, but your practice in using it against, in your own words: a bad opponent, and overall both replays “aren’t the best”.
I’m not trying to say you did a bad job, but you are telling me I Post theories only, but you yourself are not always bringing the evidence to showcase it’s not a theory of yours, until I prompted you, and even then replays you are not sure are all that great.
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A) Nature: It depends what is more important to cover, Empoleon cannot switch to relaxed because it won’t save it either way, but Ferrothorn can if it needs to, depending on what your team needs more coverage for.
B) Xerneas with Spikes: My calculations had a non-QDance and a QDance Boost. Motherlove’s has +1 for theirs, but I definitely included both boosted and unboosted. So I don’t understand why you said I included Calcs with boosts, when my unboosted calc itself is nearly a 2HKO...
Also, it’s not hard to set up on Empoleon, when Empoleon has to switch out from Earth Power manually, because it cannot use a slow U-Turn without taking a heavy hit.
Therefore, if Empoleon switches out, it fears switching back in due to Earth Power, so it’s situational at best to suggest it can handle Spikes and Earth Power... if you switch out when it uses Earth Power to Shedinja, that’s a great predict. If you switch out as they use Spikes, you just compromised Shedinja coming in later, and now if they predict Endeavor they can switch to Gengar as you slowly U-Turn to Empoleon, which allows their Gengar to Strike, whether it be the Specs Set, or otherwise with Secret Sword hitting off of Empoleon’s weaker Defense stat. If it’s the Specs Gengar, they can also pivot with Volt back to Xerneas, and put Empoleon into KO range for Earth Power. I’m not seeing the winning scenario here.
C). If Xerneas is at 13%, but effectively prevents Shedinja from being able to repeatedly switch in, puts Empoleon even closer to 2HKO range, and allows a free switch to a Ghost from Shedinja, then I think the momentum built is still in the Xerneas’s favor. After all, if you have Empoleon which is a pretty much safe heal turn for Xerneas, and will survive any single layer of Spikes anyways.
For SF MMY: “If Imposter is healthy”, well that’s another theory that Imposter doesn’t have much damage taken yet.
After a Bolt Strike, your team’s Scarf Blissey Imposter won’t be healthy:
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Mewtwo-Mega-Y Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252- Def Blissey: 292-344 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
View attachment 193252
Since the assumption in the scenario for your Imposter throwing off my SF MMY was where Xerneas laid Spikes as I took Shedinja’s Endeavor, and then switched to SF MMY as you switched to Empoleon, and you switch to Imposter against my SF MMY. That would mean that Empoleon takes 12.5%, Imposter takes Spikes + Bolt Strike, (Shedinja cannot come in), and Empoleon can only come in if SF MMY switches out.
Then the Improof for your Imposter SF MMY would have to come in as Imposter tries to predict and switches in Empoleon. Empoleon then takes another 12.5% bringing it to 75% health, and has to ensure it can Defog while the Imposterproof to Imposter Blissey as SF MMY can threaten it. For example, if the Improof to SF MMY is my own Shedinja, then Empoleon has to then face Endeavor if it stays in to Defog, and then my Shedinja’s Extreme Speed will force you to switch out Empoleon at 1 HP to switch to your Scarf Imposter and block Extreme Speed, while scouting if my own Shedinja has Stealth Rocks like yours does.
The Imposter would have taken another 1 layer Spikes which means after the 40.8% Bolt Strike plus the two switch-ins adding up to 25% from Spikes, your Blissey is at 34.2% max remaining HP.
Now you have 2 Pokémon at 1 HP, a Blissey at about 1/3, and my Xerneas is at 12.5%.
Sounds like a pretty good trade-off in my favor.
D) Moongeist:
I’ll accept that because of the recent trend, and it makes sense for my Shedinja on the scenario above, since I would not need Geist on MMY for something with 2 forms of hazards (Stealth Rocks on Shedinja and Spikes on Xerneas) to handle Shedinja.
Still, I did bring it up bc Chessking said it like Moongeist is not used, and bc you wrote the analysis so it showcases that if he vouches for your team, sets, etc. that he also consider what you wrote for the official analysis on SF MMY.
All in all, fair point.
F). Magic Bounce point:
Sl42 please... that’s taking my point out of context.
Chess said:
“so apparently you think shed non Offense teams are ok without a bouncer and rely on the 24 pp Defog vs 32 pp sr/spikes. Also spore is not a move in the current metagame so like ??? Also moldy hazards is like not common. Also like sure they get hazards up the first time but are you really dumb enough to let them get it up the second time like ???”
Here is my full context reply on the matter:
“I never suggested in any case that any opponent would let them set up a second time, did I? Afterall, Diancie-Mega might pack Spikes and Precipice Blades, so it’s not a safe switch-in for Empoleon. Slow pivoting Empoleon won’t work for Magic Bounce either, so that’s also not an option.
Empoleon cannot switch in safely to be the universal Magic Bouncer, so obviously, you can discover what uses hazards, but you cannot simply tell when they will predict your switch to Empoleon and use a super effective attack.”
Chessking states that I must have meant that a team could set up their hazards twice, I never made that assertion.
Overall, he leads readers to assume Empoleon can block hazards up by the second attempt, but my focus is that offensive setters pack coverage moves for Steels, like Precipice Blades, and that is a deterrent for Empoleon coming in period.
Even
SuperSkylake said that Diancie’s Boomburst 2HKOs Empoleon, so clearly it cannot switch into that resisted hit, let alone a super effective one on its lower Defense.
My point wasn’t to say Empoleon is bad bc it cannot handle all setters, as you attempted to oversimplify and imply, I state that you simply cannot assume it can always block Spikes bc some setters are already capable of keeping Empoleon in its Pokéball until they have switched out.
P.S. To your second point: What list of hazard setters does Empoleon check better than any other mon? It’s niche is obviously that, so let’s address which ones Empoleon can uniquely simultaneously check, that no one else can also blanket check.
G). Ferrothorn: Well, it’s moveset is as passive as Empoleon’s... since we assume the same moveset.
You are saying that Diancie-Mega can come in for free and Ferrothorn is a sitting duck, but it isn’t threatened by Diancie-Mega and can Defog away the Spikes as Diancie-Mega switches to a Ferrothorn check.
All of that while Empoleon would have to switch out completely to avoid being KOed by Precipice Blades, or even Boomburst. And hope that if it predicts Diancie-Mega will use Spikes that it doesn’t take a Boomburst or Precipice Blades instead.
Seems to me that Ferrothorn is the safer pick and can Defog regardless.
