BH Balanced Hackmons Central Resources

Ignoring all the other stuff for now, a simple nom:

Rayquaza - Normal: UR > C probably, but definitely at least D-worthy

Rayquaza can run almost everything its mega-form was able to do, but worse. As long as the set does not require hitting certain speed tiers that Mega-Ray met or exceeded or normal Ray falls short on, it can mimic it with pretty much no changes. However, the stat reduction on power and speed is very significant, leaving it as a mere shadow of its former Mega-self, and so it faces competition from mons like Yveltal, Charizard-Y, Ho-Oh, and potentially (IF they prove to be usable in the current meta) even stuff like Celesteela*, Thundurus(-Therian), Salamence-Mega, and Shaymin-Sky who all can compete with it in some ways or do some sets better, so I don't see it getting higher than C unless something happens that really makes it awesome again.

There might also be some niche mega-evolving Ray set, but I've not found or seen one notable enough to currently factor into its rating.

*Offensive Celesteela, specifically.
 
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alright bro stop theory gaming this. if u really wanna test it just play sl42 with the teams.

also the "jeran" in ur replay isn't the real jeran, stop putting shame on his name
That’s a great point. We should both play our ideas in a match.

However, I don’t regret my post because it was asked that I explain myself. Playing a match is one thing, but that wouldn’t have addressed the other points on what sets them apart, in general, not just the specific team in question.

Great insight on the signature match, I’ll edit the typo.

Anyways, I hope it’s clear I don’t want to diminish Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request)
I hope you understand. I simply wanted to address what was acknowledged and move forward.

Thanks.
I told you what Empoleon's niche is, your answer was to replace it with a non-magic bounce mon that loses to kart and Kyurem, with the benefits of checking mons that are already checked by the rest of the team.

If that's the best you can do, no further discussion is needed, and Empoleon shall remain in D rank based on evidence of its success.
Ferrothorn loses to Kyurem?
But that’s true for Empoleon as well.

For Kyurem-W it’s Specs Refrigerate Set can pack Secret Sword, which can nearly 1HKO if Timid; and possibly 1HKO Empoleon if Modest:

252 SpA Choice Specs Kyurem-White Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Empoleon: 292-344 (78.4 - 92.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem-White Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Empoleon: 320-378 (86 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Kartana was also discussed in a prior post of mine where Empoleon can be 1HKOed 75% of the time by a Choice Band Power Whip.

Again, Empoleon is not a safe switch in to either of the two you mentioned.

If you meant Kyurem-B? Bolt Strike handles Empoleon, as does Precipice Blades.
 
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My noms, since all the cool kids are doing it.

Remove M-ray from S-rank.

Rayquaza -> Unranked; no reason to use it. It's too slow and doesn't hit as hard as other mons could. The only niche there's about it is scarf imposter + mega evo shenanigans, or emergency take a diamond storm / ice coverage when it's not too strong (-ate from kyu breaks it with winds up, and so does TC band mmx).

MMY A+ -> A; the descent of MMY continues. The only real set is now SF Lorb, albeit with the occasional MG set which is coverage locked (not that much tbh) but less prone to chip. It will rise when new sets will come out, but right now MMY doesn't belong to A+.

Zygarde-Complete A -> A+; trading bulk with typing, Zygarde has one important advantage over Giratina; a significant portion of stuff that beats it hates Thousand Waves, which is a set that beats imposter too. Z-waves can also bypass and defeat normalize gengar, which is nice; it also deals a rather large chunk to earth weak stuff, like grounded steels and ttar, and diancie if you go soundproof. Too bad it can't spinblock.

Dialga B+ -> B; Dialga is nice but M-ray is gone, and as such it is less useful.

Kartana B+ -> A-; There's one less faster attacker in the meta, and your mandatory prankster is extremely pressured to stay alive otherwise Kartana takes over the rest of your defensive core, and then whatever has been paralyzed (did you know that nuzzle ph xern is aids? try it). Also I'd like to add that Kartana is a fantastic Spiker even with a band; compressing hazard control on prankster sets is really hard, and most magic bouncers will go down to stab/coverage so they won't happily switch in.

Magearna B+ -> B; Typing is godlike but it's not bulky enough to me as a wall, and not fast enough to threaten stuff. It's 18% less bulky than Registeel.

Regigigas/Slaking B+ -> B; They don't keep up with the meta. Core Enforcer, Steels and being able to only spore one thing at any given time it's not good for them. And the aforementioned pranksters usually beat those guys. And avalanche is weak af, they keep spamming shore up and eventually they catch you with core and you die.

Audino-Mega B -> B+; If you don't have an actual move for this, it's gonna be fatter than you will think. No longer being afraid of being boombursted by m-ray helps.

Garchomp-Mega B -> B+; the shark hits hard and actually has a nice offensive typing in the meta right now, being able to hit fat dragons and ground weak stuff, which is surprisingly a lot. I'm a fan of choiced adamant adapt; scarf goes faster than mmy and can rkill it even after a very weak u-turn from everything (ok, not chansey) with Precipice Blades, meanwhile band doesn't even need to think much about coverage as pblades 2hkoes zyg (it will also go past fc chansey). Improofing is hard as you have to drop tarrows and allow your cele to get in, sunsteel for shed or you need to go fc/prankster, fc isn't good and prank is already pressured. Unfort you are not that fast with adamant and mbee and faster stuff outspeed, jolly kinda lacks power but if you can chip stuff better then you outspeed even deoa too and rip it. M-chomp is the slower, physical brother of M-gar.

Gyarados-Mega B- -> C. it's not taking anything relevant. If you wanted to pursuit trap you'd be better with ttar. Smash trip is okay but smash is doing all the job, Gyarados doesn't add much, like you could run it on something else.

Beedril-Mega C -> B-; A bit prediction reliant but it has just enough power to plow through checks/walls. Hella fast.

Deo-A C -> B-; Ok SF really makes it worth it. Faster than mmy and moar power on physical means it goes mixed and you never see coming gunk shot at your xern. Paper thin defenses obv, pack something to kill pursuit trappers and avoid getting outprioritized. Imposter can't scout as everything ohkoes. Can afford to run sungeist geyser since everything is ohkoing anyway, you can kill shed on SF, which is woah.

Charizard-Mega-Y D -> C; Breathing room for the dragon (yeah I said it, bring it on) that has a nice ph selfproof set (magma qd coverage filler) and a usable triage set which isn't walled by steels (tg magma owing filler, taunt is nice). Has the Ho-Oh in Ubers syndrome.

Empolean -> Empoleon; just pointing a typo.

Sceptile-Mega D -> Unranked; He's dead, Jim. The only trait it has is making the fat dragons switchout, and the opponent then gets momentum since it's going to do nothing relevant at the opponent (and whatever effective it does it is done better by other mons). Enjoy your spore immunity, you weird tree.
 

E4 Flint

-inactive in BH due corrupt leader-
is a member of the Site Staffis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
Community Leader
We'll be doing vr updates following the trickling in of new nominations. I also wanted to bring up another popular topic which is sample teams! I think two weeks or so is a good enough to delay to start asking for more to replace our current batch.

In discord and other places, I've had some feedback about the way we approach samples so I'm going to go into what we look for and potential ways I've come up with to address some of that feedback

Here's what I wrote before
We are looking for teams that are effective in the meta, but more importantly intuitive and easy to pick up and get going. They can be any kind of team, HO, Balanced or Stall. Bonus points if you use sets that are creative or offer something new rather than say picking the top 6 best mons and their best sets from analyses/setpedia
Since our sample teams are targeted more towards an audience that is just starting their journey in BH, I think it is extremely important to give them a team that is intuitive first and foremost, where its reasonably easy to determine why a set was put on a specific mon, or what the usual combo plays are.

This is a little tougher to capture since it is subjective, but we're also looking for ateam that is not that "grindy" to use, or just has the same play every time; something with varying beginning and mid game options, and more "fun" to use. Again, I recognize that this is subjective and I'm hoping that by having multiple people look at the teams we can develop a good idea about this.

It is also extremely unlikely for a sample team to be able to take on every threat or playstyle in the metagame - again it is supposed to be a starting point, and something the new player can learn from but also easily make modifications to such as swapping out an offensive mon or changing a few moves or abils based on their recent matchups.

I also have received some feedback on how i laid out the samples itself and the formatting. To support both of these aims, i think that I could be presenting the samples better so i will ask you guys to provide some details when you post your samples (this will probably also help understand how I plan to format the sample teams post)
  • Your name of the team (this will appear in my screenshot from ps!)
  • a generic one-liner description of what the team does, which will be put with your name above the screenshot. If you don't provide a name, I am planning on just using this inside the screenshot too if it fits. If you don't provide either of these, I will make a description for you and use it
  • your team on pokepaste (or other text hosting service if you want) (try to include the above two points in pokepaste, but anything else is upto you)
  • how to use your team: try to answer the following - what are the effective combo pieces, what should you open with, what are some popular threats or playstyles your team is able to answer
  • (NEW) what sets or playstyles your team is weak to: maybe some quick changes that are suggested with a note about how it changes your mu, but this is not required
  • how effective is your team: why should someone use it? here you can add an rmt if you've written one but definitely some ladder/tour experience, possibly with a replay or two
This should make it easier to accept a few more teams I think and help users navigate the samples better. Also keep in mind that we would be ready to accept all kinds of samples, not just bulky offence or balance teams.

Another piece of feedback I've had is to accept more samples over time instead of post announcements. My tentative solution is that we'll continue to accept samples like this as they act as a good way to refresh and get a snapshot of the meta at this point in time and get a bunch of samples together, but we will also look at teams that people feel would be good additions as and when they post them.

Also, I want to say that we get a lot of great teams, but ultimately we would like to select a subset of them based on our reasoning above, and of course that means some teams will not make it (which will be the final decision of the BHC). It is scientifically shown that too many choices can overwhelm humans and put them off instead of increasing their interest. I've tentatively thought of keeping around a dozen samples and while this number is not fixed, I don't want to get into twenty or thirty of them either.

Also i will try to make it clearer that people can also come back to this thread and look for other teams to try out even if they are not featured.

Thanks! As always, I try to answer constructive feedback whenever i can, it just may take some time for me to think of a solution. :smogthink:
 
193741
This team was built around Sand and Magic Guard Mega Diancie. As such, this team takes more liberty vs Shedinja, because of the omnipotent threat of sand. Necrozma-Dusk-Mane improofs this Mega Diancie set, and walls a fair amount of -ate sets too. Because of Fur Coat, it can eat quite a few hits, and if sand is up, Shore Up helps. Zygarde-Complete improofs the Tyranitar set, while Giratina improofs the Mega Beedrill set. Mega Beedrill is speed control and a revenge-killer. It has no way of really hitting Giratina, but it's fine since Mega Diancie almost always OHKOes Giratina every time with Light of Ruin. Overall, this is a pretty decent team, especially since it has several ways of dealing with Shedinja, including Sand, Will-o-Wisp on Giratina, and Sunsteel Strike on Mega Beedrill.
Shell Smash > Volt Tackle is an option, but I personally prefer the AoA variant.
Alternatively, here's another Mega Diancie team.

193742
Built around the concept of Fairy-Spam, kinda. This team kinda struggles with Shedinja, hence why Necrozma-Dusk-Mane is carrying Sunsteel Strike. Xerneas is improofed by Ho-oh, Mega Diancie is improofed by Necrozma-Dusk-Mane. Honestly, I prefer the other team more because it has better ways of dealing with Shedinja, but this team did pretty decently on ladder.
 
1567653307111.png
The focus of this team is to use the speed control gained from Nuzzle Xern + Webs to allow Scarf Imp + Specs KyuW to decimate the opposing team. I usually lead with Registeel, but if you think the opponent will lead with something that can OHKO it, it's safer to go Imp or Gira. Once you get webs up or have all of the opponents fast mons paralyzed, you can either try to set up with Xern and sweep or start picking off mons with KyuW. This team is good at playing the slow pivot game due to Gira's Lagging Tail and is also quite bulky as a whole due to Registeel's Regenerator and it's ability to provide a full heal to one of the offensive mons like KyuW or Imp. This team does well against Shed due to my Gira set basically hard countering it, and it also does good against HO because of Scarf Imp and Nuzzle Spikes Xern both doing well against it. This team struggles with opposing mbounce ghosts due to the ability to pivot off of my own Parting Shot while also spinblocking registeel, which can be a problem for KyuW if rocks are up. This is partially remedied by Core Enforcer on Registeel allowing me to still get webs up. Another problem this team has is the defensive core of Regenvest Ice Resist + Shedinja. You have to make a lot of reads against this defensive core if you can't get spikes set up, but if you can you're fine. Para-hax from Xern also helps deal with this by stopping some pivots.

A few replays:

Vs Sand Balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-965402225

Vs Double Regenvest Balance
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-967590680

Vs Semistall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-965731165

Vs Sugarhigh HO
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-967613088

Vs. Volk Mono-Electric Meme Team
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-967600962

Vs BMOC, best team of Gen7 BH
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-969528275
 

Attachments



Basically after a Focus Energy MMX kills any switchin besides Shed, not even caring about Strength Sap or King's Shield or anything.
how to use: basically you just use shed/ho-oh/registeel to pick up momentum to switch mmx into a steel type, predict a giratina/zyg switchin to setup focus energy, and then ohko giratina/zyg. ho-oh sponges special attacks and giratina sponges physical attacks. make sure to scout every mon with imposter so you dont get ganked by random status or mold breaker moves.
weaknesses: like any shed team, you need to be careful of imposter when rocks are on your side. however, unlike a shed team, you can soft check mmx imposter with ho-oh's beak blast so that's pretty cool.
effectiveness: as with all shed teams, it can be very consistent if played well. but the real reason you should use it is cause its cooler than penguin!!!!


193773

you spam hail, you spam burns, you spam whirlwind, you win
how to use: Basically you keep hail up to chip the hell out of improofs and then bring out Chansey on the wincon for the countersweep. Regenvest Registeel is a nice blanket check to big special attackers like Specs Gengar-Mega and Mewtwo-Mega-Y; PH Giratina spreads burns, removes Toxic Orb and Safety Goggles for Lapras; Ho-Oh beats problematic mons like Diancie-Mega and Xerneas; Prankster Xerneas blanket checks physical attackers; and Chansey glues the team together.
weaknesses: since the prankster user is xerneas, you have to be more careful of setup sweepers that can hit it hard. also this team is kinda weak to kyub
effectiveness: i think it works pretty well and its also significantly easier to play than CHAD FOCUS ENERGY so yeah you should try it
wip
 
posted in wrong place first oof
"oh but pazza why are u submitting more than 1 species spam team aren't they bad?" :mehowth: i feel like sample teams are the easiest teams for new players to use since its very easy to cheese and win. hopefully this will bring more awareness about this problem.

here i will present u a good hyper offense. the one in the sample? BAD.

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https://pokepast.es/477c33e1cd2d3499

weaknesses: nuzzle spikes xern ph, gotta drop it with dbond or kill it with ttar.
effectiveness: kill prankster mon set up mmx, or just break teams with the sheer power of spamming mmx, most teams don't have a counter for every one.

uh i don't think i need to really explain much more go read the rmt if u need explaining
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/bh-tale-of-5-mega-mewtwo-xs-and-a-tyranitar.3652085/#post-8173505



now let me try to as well sample this other species spam team made by PinkDragonTamer w/ edits from me



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https://pokepast.es/bdf77a2c6ff7004e

2 shell smash mmx for sweeping
mold breaker gengar for leading and getting hazards up and dbond free kill
refridge mmx for zyg and gira and yvetal or any flying mon that walls mmx
scarf gengar for anti lead vs deos and kill other mmx/gengar/mmy/imposter/slowbro

weaknesses: reliant on speed ties, other than that I haven't found a lot of weakness to this team, maybe double prankster zyg/aegislash
effectiveness: really easy to click shell smash and win games


i think these should be samples over other species spam teams because i rly think these are the best in the metagame right now because of the fact mmx is so easy to spam with because of its insane attack and speed and is pretty bulky, good stats all around.
 

Gurpreet Patel (Sent you a Friend Request)

bh's very own pseudo-intellectual
is a Community Contributor

https://pokepast.es/90c79fd5290c8a30

this team generally rewards aggressive play with the 2 pursuit trappers to allow for the ph sweepers to sweep later on, but it doesn't take that much bh-specific knowledge so im submitting it here. qd 3 attacks xern can usually get a great matchup vs fat once hooh is removed by pursuit, and slaking beats hyper offense while setting up rocks and also benefits a ton from ash gren removing ghosts. gren is the speed control mon being able to take out threats like gar that are annoying for everyone else. registeel set isnt self sufficient but blanket checks a bunch of threats thanks to parting shot. dusclops is meant to take on diancie once its hit by parting shot and also is the counterplay for opposing ph users. regigigas breaks walls once ghosts are out of the way and can pursuit trap even with ghosts present. hail is to beat shed on the switch and prevent him from coming in for the next 4 turns as well (so if shed is their only ghost regi/slaking can do rly well)

the team won in ompl and won vs some decent players (above ladder tier) in the test games so im submitting it here.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971447866
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971452669
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971456838
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971457993
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971460191

might submit more later idk
 
may as well

BH SAMPLE TEAM
Spring Advent
Balance team that is good v most things
Screenshot from 2019-09-06 19-01-58.png

https://pokepast.es/9d2c70f77e6c8bb0 (Description on pokepaste)
Got to top 10 on ladder and got bored.

Problems
Team struggles to handle multiple set-up mons. It does not like CB MMx. It does not like Crit MMy or weird variants thereof. Bolt Strike and ice coverage KYUb is annoying.

Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971282837
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971292203
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-969412391
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-969349684

(earlier iterations of the team had lifeorb on Diancie; may be present on some replays)

may or may not be alive again
 
193908
Generic Balance team. Main Breaker is Deoxys-A which can also revenge slower threats quite easily (run calcs though). PH MMX provides support by getting hazards and chipping stuff. Giratina and FC Chansey make a solid core and Audino helps with hazards and pivoting while Imposter rounds the team off by providing additional defensive utility and scouting. Typical lead is Imposter but Audino is a really fine one as well to pivot into MMX. You should try to get Toxic Orb activated ASAP but you have 2 underleveled pivoting which should be helpful. Deoxys has 0 bulk so play it carefully but it can be very rewarding if you get it in and they don't have a durable switch-in, also since it dies to everything already switching into rocks or spikes is fine. FC Chansey might want to hit U-turn a lot but keep it reasonably healthy esp if hazards end up on your side. FC Chansey improofs Deoxys and Audino, Audino improofs Giratina and MMX, MMX improofs FC Chansey.

Team has no steel so Specs -ate definitely pressures a lot and in those matchups you really want to be keeping FC Chansey very high and hazards off. Team also doesn't have the greatest matchup vs PH Xern as Audino can get chipped down with QD+Moonblast.

Alternate options on the team are Gunk Shot over Sludge Wave on Deo-A for more power, Moonblast over Ice Beam or Sludge Wave to do more to MMX, U-turn over Volt on Audino to avoid Zygs, Anchor over Volt on Audino to ease improofing and matchup against Xerneas (team can undergo a bigger restructure), alternate move over Poison Fang on FC Chansey, Shed Shell over Eviolite on Imposter.

193909
Generic Balance team. Main Breaker is Charizard-Y which can sweep very very easily. Tyranitar provides offensive support. Xerneas Toxapex Giratina form a defensive core, Imposter rounds off. Lead is usually Imposter but leading with Char-Y or Pex is ok too. Really try to get Orb activation super fast because your Improof requires it. Tyranitar has great longevity and isn't very scared of Imposter coming in as it is doing good damage while threatening Knock. Toxapex is your NormGar check and is a very good bouncer overall, you can switch it into a lot of defensive mons as well as PH Xern and MMX without much trouble. You want rocks off for Charizard to ease setup. Charizard is pretty easy to get in actually as it has a lot of longevity, Tail Glow is safe play pretty much unless opponent has pivoting and Imposter. If everything is weakened or checks eliminated PH Xern can clean late game which is cool. Team has 2 strong priority which helps against non DQM setup. Tyranitar and Chansey improof Charizard, Xerneas improofs Giratina and Tyranitar, Toxapex improofs Xerneas.

Team is not great against Gengar because Tyranitar dies to Sword, luckily DQM doesn't have the boost so Pex can soft check kinda. Kyurem-W is also kinda threatening because Toxapex isn't a switch-in.

Alternate options on the team are utility move over Volt Switch on Chary to ease improofing. Pursuit over Sucker Punch or Rock Blast on TTar to trap and dent some stuff. Shed Shell over Eviolite on Imposter. Knock Off over Spectral Thief on Toxapex to ease Gengar matchup (use Charizard to check Xern).

Team has also seen solid performance on ladder and room tours.

193910
Generic Balance team. MegaChomp is ridiculous and breaks everything so the rest of the team is more defensive. Kyogre provides rocks and spreads burns and removes items helping Chomp sweep. Rest of mons make defensive core, Imposter rounds off. Giratina and Imposter are both good leads as Giratina can activate orb if needed. Safely activating both orbs is important as always. Giratina should be played more conservatively as it relies on passive recovery. If opponent doesn’t have Imposter or its been removed, Bulu is a nice emergency button. Garchomp is good at forcing switches and setup but if against ZygTina that might stay in you can z it for the ohko (scout for RegenVest). Bulu improofs Garchomp, Ho-Oh improofs Bulu, Giratina improofs Kyogre for rocks.

Choice Specs Gengar is threateningly as the team lacks a Ghost resist. Magic Guard Diancie is also threatening as Imposter is the only check. Shedinja is slightly annoying too.

Not many alternate stuff for the team as far as I can think of.

Just like the last 2 teams I used them to get a couple of alts to 90 GXE and had some success in some room tours.

193911
Generic Balance team. Choice Specs Diancie has almost 0 switch ins. Sand from Nihilego is nice as it lets Diancie take hits better and eliminates Shed. Zygarde and Slowbro complement by providing good physical bulk as well as a Prankster and a Bouncer. MMX supports Diancie with Spikes and pressures Steels. Imposter is standard glue. Team can be played aggressively as Diancie is super threatening in the meta and defensive core is decent to fall back on. Lead Imposter or Diancie if needed. Setting up Spikes with MMX is a good idea if opponent doesn’t have a good bouncers as Diancie is almost unstoppable with Spikes. Try to not give free turns to Xerneas and try to lure it with Koff Purify.

Team is weak to PH Earth Power Xern as it threatens the entire team well. Even if it’s not EP it sets up Spikes well which is why MMX is Purify. Kyurem W also pressures but MMX and Diancie both revenge kill it.

Not sure about alternate options.

Team was built for OMPL so it can’t be that bad right?

193913
Fun team around a Ghost core. Lunala is immensely threatening to anything not Dark, which it just blows up and frees Gengar potential sweep. Zygarde Cresselia and Kyogre act as a weird but decently effective defensive core. Nuzzle and Spectrals are kinda the main setup check so be careful with opposing setup. Lead Imposter or Cresselia into Zyg or something. Sometimes Lunala is a better breaker so use Gengar to weaken checks. Dark Z part shot can be used to heal Lunala to blow up stuff if it’s chipped.

Team is susceptible to Guzzlord because Lunala doesn’t blow it up and it checks Gengar. Pursuit trappers are also threatening as 3 mons are weak to them. PH normals are also somewhat threatening as they are immune to the main methods of setup control, forcing the use of the offensive mons to check.

Idk about alternate options.

Team is good I swear.
 
Alo guys. I am going to post the teams I want to submit as sample teams. I hope u enjoy reading this.

1. The Dovah Squad

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The Dovah Squad

This team is solid and very easy to use. It was built pre ray and contrary ban but it is still very solid in this meta. Its explained further in this RMT.


2. A TDS variation.

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Double pheal TDS variation

The core is almost the same. I chose ferrothorn over registeel to have a more solid answer to pheal spikes setter xerneas (without magma) that is rising in use (as well a spike setter pheal audino). Ferro is a nice mabouncer and got quite more usable post ray ban. In this variation I sack mmx and diancie and change them for yveltal and xerneas, both pheal. Xerneas was chosen for it utility to set spikes safely while bringing offensive power and the option to boost and sweep. Is hard imposterproofed by ferrothorn at +0 and+1, if its further boosted xern itself can still imposterproof (unless crit uh), letting imp set spikes but it also goes for you. Yveltal is chosen as a knock offer and u-turn punisher. I have a lot of oportinities to boost during a match and can punish spectral users with beak blast. It imposterproofs himself (unless crit uh x 2). Anchor stand for have a better mashup against audino, impostertrap and ocasionally trapping passive walls without stat control to boost in the face. Its a solid mon over all. This variation is a bit more defensive but still have enough offensive presence. Earth power in xern may be changed by nuzzle or another support move.


3. The legend of the panda

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The legend of the panda

I have been thinking to make a RMT about this team for a long time but I am too lazy. The ttar is meant to be a pangoro but I dont want the team to get auto rejected lol. beedrill and ferro do similar jobs than in the other team. Fini works as a stallbreaker with infestation+scald which is a deadly combo. Its also a good rock setter. Darmanitan is a regenvest to solid block non-rock stab diancies (ferro block diancies with rock coverage and darm does so with diancie with fire coverage), refridge kyurems, refri or pixi mmx and blanket check for mmy, as well as being able to spred burns with happiness. Standard physical wall gira and ttar finish the team with his raw high power and the ability to trap mons with pursuit and remove items. The improofs are: ttar > fini (after orb activation), bee > fini and darmanitan, gira > ttar and ferro, ferro > darmanitan, fini > itself and ferro, darmanitan > fini and ttar.

I have some other teams that may fit as samples but the ones I posted are the ones that I feel that are more solid.

shoutouts to pazza for being pazza

(maybe I have posted this in another thread by mistake sorry)

Have a nice day
 

Funbot28

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VR Update: September 26th, 2019

Ok so council voted on some stuff post the Mega Rayquaza ban after taking into consideration from nominations in the thread and here are the results:

Rises:
  • :Zygarde-Complete: A -> A+
  • :Kartana: B+ -> A-
  • :Garchomp-Mega: B -> B+
  • :Celesteela: B -> B+
  • :Aerodactyl-Mega: B- -> B
  • :Ho-oh: B- -> B
  • :Cresselia: B- -> B [Canceled post feedback]
  • :Beedrill-Mega: C -> B-
  • :Charizard-Mega Y: D -> C
  • :Rayquaza: UR -> D
  • :Toxapex: UR -> D
  • :Nihilego: UR -> D
  • Zygarde-C has been picking up usage as physical tank opposed to the more commonly seen Giratina due to it being able to better check threats such as Mega Gengar, Yveltal, and Shell Smash Mega Mewtwo X. Also, the lack of Ghost-typing to check Shedinja can usually be remedied by parrying Zygarde-C with common partners such as Aegislash, Mega Gengar, and Shedinja.
  • Kartana appreciates the removal of a common check in Mega Rayquaza and in general has been picking up usage as a great wallbreaker with sets such as Tinted Lens paired with Grassy Surge users to enable it to 2HKO nearly everything in the metagame.
  • Mega Garchomp is also an appreciated wallbreaker right now due to it being able to bypass 2 of the most common physical walls in Giratina and Zygarde-C thanks to it's mixed Adaptability sets.
  • Celesteela is not only a good Steel-type defensive wall that can check / improof dangerous threats such as Sheer Force Mega Mewtwo Y (with Volt Absorb) and Pixilate Mega Mewtwo X, but also has started abusing Triage sets due to it being the bulkiest setup sweeper after the banning of Mega Rayquaza.
  • Mega Aerodactyl has risen due to it being a great revenge killer that can be hard to account for without proper checks such as Zygarde-C and Registeel. It also provides defensive utility by checking threats such as Regigigas and Ho-Oh which is appreciated.
  • Mega Charizard Y has also seen use as a Triage / Magic Guard user after Mega Rayquaza's ban, being a potent wallbreaker that can be hard to support but deadly when properly utilized.
  • Toxapex was ranked due to it's useful resistances in Fire, Fighting, and Fairy making it act as a niche check to threats such as Mega Diancie and Mega Blaziken.


Drops:
  • :Rayquaza-Mega: S -> Shadow Realm
  • :Tyranitar-Mega: A- -> B+
  • :Dialga: B+ -> B
  • :Regigigas: / :Slaking: B+ -> B
  • :Magearna: B+ -> B
  • :Gyarados-Mega: B- -> C
  • :Empoleon: D -> UR
  • B+ -> B- [Added post feedback]
  • While Mega Tyranitar can check some prominent threats such as Mega Gengar, Ho-Oh, and Mega Mewtwo Y based of it's typing alone, common coverage run on the aforementioned threats makes it unreliable of a switchin. The removal of Mega Rayquaza also removes a lot of incentive of running it as well, despite Choice Band and Shell Smash sets still being quite potent.
  • Dialga has been falling off recently due to the passivity of it's RegenVest sets enabling Imposter to recover HP for free and the decline of usage of Tail Glow sets making it loss popularity and viability as a result.
  • Regigigas and Slaking just have a harder time setting up in a metagame where checks such as Prankster Zygarde-C and Mega Mewtwo X are more common, making them harder to be effective sweepers at the moment.
  • While Magearna is still a great Steel-type check to an abundance of special attackers, the removal of Mega Rayquaza removed a lot of viability for it as Magearna was commonly allotted to check it on a wide variety of teams.
  • Mega Gyarados has been dropping in viability for a while now, but with threats such as Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Diancie, and Xerneas seeing as much usage as they do, it has really fallen to a low point in terms of viability, giving reason for it's drop.
  • Empoleon is a meme that works in extremely specific scenarios and thus is not worthy to be ranked atm.


Vote Sheet as always linked here. Leave your thoughts below and don't forget to also submit samples as we will be selecting some to provide in the OP soon!
 
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rises:
:Zygarde-Complete: unsure
Zygarde-C has been picking up usage as physical tank opposed to the more commonly seen Giratina due to it being able to better check threats such as Mega Gengar, Yveltal, and Shell Smash Mega Mewtwo X.
Yveltal isn't really that problematic a mon; it usually can be walled by stuff like Magearna or even Registeel. Smash MMX is already handled solidly by Giratina (unless it's -ate, in which case Zyg doesn't handle either), but Mega Gengar is a fair point.
Also, the lack of Ghost-typing to check Shedinja can usually be remedied by parrying Zygarde-C with common partners such as Aegislash
lol aegislash

I'm kind of on the fence on this one, Giratina handles Adaptability MMX and Steelworker Kartana and Shedinja while Zygarde is a more offensive mon, not being Imposter bait and being able to trap and eliminate certain walls.

:Kartana: disagree
It's a wallbreaker that 2HKOs most things while mostly checked by Imposter and smart plays. This makes it almost the same as Garchomp-Mega, which is B+. Kartana should be B+ with it.

:Garchomp-Mega: agree

:Celesteela: disagree
Celesteela is not only a good Steel-type defensive wall that can check / improof dangerous threats such as Sheer Force Mega Mewtwo Y (with Volt Absorb) and Pixilate Mega Mewtwo X, but also has started abusing Triage sets due to it being the bulkiest setup sweeper after the banning of Mega Rayquaza.
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Mega Mewtwo Y Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Celesteela: 177-209 (44.4 - 52.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Mewtwo X Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 186-219 (46.7 - 55%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Celesteela is a very shaky check to MMY and not a check at all to MMX. The only places I could see it working are improofing MMY lacking Electric coverage, Garchomp without Thousand Arrows, and things like Smash PDon using Flash Fire/Primordial Sea. In other situations, Registeel or Magearna or other Steel-types are better.

:Aerodactyl-Mega: unsure
haven't used it enough to say either way

:Ho-Oh: agree
I find Ho-Oh to be very splashable, especially its Magic Guard set. It's a good special tank that checks Diancie-Mega and most walls (4x resistant to U-Turn, immune to burn, high Special Defense to take Core Enforcers), especially Zygarde-Complete. I've tried both offensive and defensive movesets and both are really useful, and other abilities (Magic Bounce, Aerilate, Regenerator) are pretty good as well. I could even see this being B+.

:Cresselia: unsure
I've used it occasionally, but I'm pretty on the fence about it. Sure, it has the Psychic typing and better Special Defense than Slowbro, but I feel like it's super passive and doesn't take Choiced hits very well.

:Beedrill-Mega: disagree
lol lack of reasoning
Beedrill-Mega isn't that great because while its main claim to fame is pressuring offense, it doesn't really do that very well because it misses the ability to OHKO MMX. It's basically an Aerodactyl-Mega that's slower and trades the ability to cleanly OHKO MMY without the use of Tough Claws and the situational Toxic Spikes removal for being able to cleanly OHKO Fairy-types, which I think cements it in the C ranking.

:Charizard-Mega-Y: agree
pretty self-explanatory, rayban makes this the next best alternative when it comes to triage and (to a lesser extent) aerilate

:Rayquaza: agree
see above

:Toxapex: agree

:Nihilego: unsure

drops:
:Rayquaza-Mega: hard disagree
bring back ray mega it was 10000% not broken cause i only use choice scarf corrosion

:Tyranitar-Mega: agree
With the rises in Diancie-Mega and Kyurem-White to fill in the niche Rayquaza-Mega left, Tyranitar loses viability as a special wall. It does check Gengar-Mega really well, though, and offensive sets are pretty decent as well.

:Dialga: agree
reasoning put it perfectly

:Regigigas::Slaking: agree
see dialga

:Magearna: disagree
Recently, there's been a surge of Mold Breaker hazard setters, and Pixilate Magearna is really good at removing hazards. It also can dish out some good damage with Pixilate Boomburst, especially when boosted by Metronome. Besides that, Magearna also has its Magic Bounce and Regenerator sets, which are also very solid. I see it as a Registeel that trades some bulk and negative speed tier for less passivity, neutrality to Fighting, and resistance to Dark, which should keep it in B+.

:Gyarados-Mega: agree
While I've seen some offensive sets around (Poison Heal), Gyarados-Mega just kinda sucks atm. As a Dark wall, it's overshadowed by Tyranitar and Yveltal; as a Water wall, it's outclassed by Slowbro and Kyogre; its niche of resisting all Mold Breaker moves is offset by the fact that it gets chunked by VoltTurn and Fighting-moves, which are common on attackers with said moves.

:Empoleon: unsure
ask Zovrah about this lol
 
VR Update: September 26th, 2019

Ok so council voted on some stuff post the Mega Rayquaza ban after taking into consideration from nominations in the thread and here are the results:

Rises:
  • :Zygarde-Complete: A -> A+
  • :Kartana: B+ -> A-
  • :Garchomp-Mega: B -> B+
  • :Celesteela: B -> B+
  • :Aerodactyl-Mega: B- -> B
  • :Ho-oh: B- -> B
  • :Cresselia: B- -> B
  • :Beedrill-Mega: C -> B-
  • :Charizard-Mega Y: D -> C
  • :Rayquaza: UR -> D
  • :Toxapex: UR -> D
  • :Nihilego: UR -> D
  • Zygarde-C has been picking up usage as physical tank opposed to the more commonly seen Giratina due to it being able to better check threats such as Mega Gengar, Yveltal, and Shell Smash Mega Mewtwo X. Also, the lack of Ghost-typing to check Shedinja can usually be remedied by parrying Zygarde-C with common partners such as Aegislash, Mega Gengar, and Shedinja.
  • Kartana appreciates the removal of a common check in Mega Rayquaza and in general has been picking up usage as a great wallbreaker with sets such as Tinted Lens paired with Grassy Surge users to enable it to 2HKO nearly everything in the metagame.
  • Mega Garchomp is also an appreciated wallbreaker right now due to it being able to bypass 2 of the most common physical walls in Giratina and Zygarde-C thanks to it's mixed Adaptability sets.
  • Celesteela is not only a good Steel-type defensive wall that can check / improof dangerous threats such as Sheer Force Mega Mewtwo Y (with Volt Absorb) and Pixilate Mega Mewtwo X, but also has started abusing Triage sets due to it being the bulkiest setup sweeper after the banning of Mega Rayquaza.
  • Mega Aerodactyl has risen due to it being a great revenge killer that can be hard to account for without proper checks such as Zygarde-C and Registeel. It also provides defensive utility by checking threats such as Regigigas and Ho-Oh which is appreciated.
  • Mega Charizard Y has also seen use as a Triage / Magic Guard user after Mega Rayquaza's ban, being a potent wallbreaker that can be hard to support but deadly when properly utilized.
  • Toxapex was ranked due to it's useful resistances in Fire, Fighting, and Fairy making it act as a niche check to threats such as Mega Diancie and Mega Blaziken.


Drops:
  • :Rayquaza-Mega: S -> Shadow Realm
  • :Tyranitar-Mega: A- -> B+
  • :Dialga: B+ -> B
  • :Regigigas: / :Slaking: B+ -> B
  • :Magearna: B+ -> B
  • :Gyarados-Mega: B- -> C
  • :Empoleon: D -> UR
  • While Mega Tyranitar can check some prominent threats such as Mega Gengar, Ho-Oh, and Mega Mewtwo Y based of it's typing alone, common coverage run on the aforementioned threats makes it unreliable of a switchin. The removal of Mega Rayquaza also removes a lot of incentive of running it as well, despite Choice Band and Shell Smash sets still being quite potent.
  • Dialga has been falling off recently due to the passivity of it's RegenVest sets enabling Imposter to recover HP for free and the decline of usage of Tail Glow sets making it loss popularity and viability as a result.
  • Regigigas and Slaking just have a harder time setting up in a metagame where checks such as Prankster Zygarde-C and Mega Mewtwo X are more common, making them harder to be effective sweepers at the moment.
  • While Magearna is still a great Steel-type check to an abundance of special attackers, the removal of Mega Rayquaza removed a lot of viability for it as Magearna was commonly allotted to check it on a wide variety of teams.
  • Mega Gyarados has been dropping in viability for a while now, but with threats such as Mega Mewtwo X, Mega Diancie, and Xerneas seeing as much usage as they do, it has really fallen to a low point in terms of viability, giving reason for it's drop.
  • Empoleon is a meme that works in extremely specific scenarios and thus is not worthy to be ranked atm.


Vote Sheet as always linked here. Leave your thoughts below and don't forget to also submit samples as we will be selecting some to provide in the OP soon!
I completely agree with this entire rank change!
I told you what Empoleon's niche is, your answer was to replace it with a non-magic bounce mon that loses to kart and Kyurem, with the benefits of checking mons that are already checked by the rest of the team.

If that's the best you can do, no further discussion is needed, and Empoleon shall remain in D rank based on evidence of its success.
Apparently, my arguments and the opinions of others were enough - based on evidence of its vote declaring it below D.
#Overruled
 

https://pokepast.es/90c79fd5290c8a30

this team generally rewards aggressive play with the 2 pursuit trappers to allow for the ph sweepers to sweep later on, but it doesn't take that much bh-specific knowledge so im submitting it here. qd 3 attacks xern can usually get a great matchup vs fat once hooh is removed by pursuit, and slaking beats hyper offense while setting up rocks and also benefits a ton from ash gren removing ghosts. gren is the speed control mon being able to take out threats like gar that are annoying for everyone else. registeel set isnt self sufficient but blanket checks a bunch of threats thanks to parting shot. dusclops is meant to take on diancie once its hit by parting shot and also is the counterplay for opposing ph users. regigigas breaks walls once ghosts are out of the way and can pursuit trap even with ghosts present. hail is to beat shed on the switch and prevent him from coming in for the next 4 turns as well (so if shed is their only ghost regi/slaking can do rly well)

the team won in ompl and won vs some decent players (above ladder tier) in the test games so im submitting it here.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971447866
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971452669
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971456838
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971457993
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7balancedhackmons-971460191

might submit more later idk
use shift gear over dd on slaking you fool
 
Mostly re-iterating what I said on discord. But I would've expected that most of the VR changes are based on Rayquaza's ban, yet very little of the reasoning highlights how a mon's viability has changed, instead it just says inheritent attributes of the mons, attributesa that it already had before.

I'll start with what I agree with cause positivity is good for health.
Honestly I think Ray being gone has been huge for Zygarde in practice, because it means Zygarde can freely rely on its much better ground stab without being a completely free switch for the #1 wallbreaker in the meta. Waves allows Zygarde to run stab + trapping + momentum (volt switch) on the same set which very few mons can do, and waves with z move is also much better against Gengar as it hits it super effectively. This also makes it harder for Diancie to come in (whereas Giratina is typically free). So yeah much easier to use Zyg now imo.

I agree, I think chomp has proven himself as a really potent wallbreaker and now you removed not only its main competition, it's most common rker, but also a switchin to its most powerful stab. Chomp is really gucci rn.

Similarly, much easier to run Ho-Oh now without Ray around since it can beat Xern and Diancie who are really common and good rn. And check a few MMY sets.

Yeh hard to find a niche for it rn, feels like it loses to all common offensive threats.

But some of the stuff on the other had is very weird to me.
It's the reasoning that really irks me here. Grassy surge teams have been tried many times throughout the entire generation. And they'v pretty much always been bad. Grassy terrain has a history of failure behind it. It's a pretty shit archetype partly because of how counterproductive it is. Kart is frail as shit so getting it in typically means doubling and switching around for ages, which gives your opponent tons of time to heal off chip. And Kart being hard to bring it is annoying when you're limited on terrain turns.
I don't think Kart got any better. It still has very little defensive utility and is kinda slow. It didn't really get any harder to rk with ray banned, the only real difference is that typical answers to it are more common now. Mons like Ho-Oh, Groudon and even Darm that I never saw before are kinda roaming around threatening it. It can alctually make it hard to do anything with your limited pp.
I'm not against a rise outright, if it's well justified. But grassy terrain is lol.

Honestly a significant part of its niche was being an offensive check to ray, especially triage ray. Now it just feels like it lost a massive niche. Idk how you can justify a rise really.
 
Mostly re-iterating what I said on discord. But I would've expected that most of the VR changes are based on Rayquaza's ban, yet very little of the reasoning highlights how a mon's viability has changed, instead it just says inheritent attributes of the mons, attributesa that it already had before.

I'll start with what I agree with cause positivity is good for health.
Honestly I think Ray being gone has been huge for Zygarde in practice, because it means Zygarde can freely rely on its much better ground stab without being a completely free switch for the #1 wallbreaker in the meta. Waves allows Zygarde to run stab + trapping + momentum (volt switch) on the same set which very few mons can do, and waves with z move is also much better against Gengar as it hits it super effectively. This also makes it harder for Diancie to come in (whereas Giratina is typically free). So yeah much easier to use Zyg now imo.

I agree, I think chomp has proven himself as a really potent wallbreaker and now you removed not only its main competition, it's most common rker, but also a switchin to its most powerful stab. Chomp is really gucci rn.

Similarly, much easier to run Ho-Oh now without Ray around since it can beat Xern and Diancie who are really common and good rn. And check a few MMY sets.

Yeh hard to find a niche for it rn, feels like it loses to all common offensive threats.

But some of the stuff on the other had is very weird to me.
It's the reasoning that really irks me here. Grassy surge teams have been tried many times throughout the entire generation. And they'v pretty much always been bad. Grassy terrain has a history of failure behind it. It's a pretty shit archetype partly because of how counterproductive it is. Kart is frail as shit so getting it in typically means doubling and switching around for ages, which gives your opponent tons of time to heal off chip. And Kart being hard to bring it is annoying when you're limited on terrain turns.
I don't think Kart got any better. It still has very little defensive utility and is kinda slow. It didn't really get any harder to rk with ray banned, the only real difference is that typical answers to it are more common now. Mons like Ho-Oh, Groudon and even Darm that I never saw before are kinda roaming around threatening it. It can alctually make it hard to do anything with your limited pp.
I'm not against a rise outright, if it's well justified. But grassy terrain is lol.

Honestly a significant part of its niche was being an offensive check to ray, especially triage ray. Now it just feels like it lost a massive niche. Idk how you can justify a rise really.
While I believe that Kart benefitted by losing something faster than it, I do agree with your point on Darm becoming more common, as I have seen even offensive variants (as shown in my link within my prior post), and actually ran into that trainer. (I still think Smash is a better setup but w/e).

Overall, anything that needed a niche as a physical attacker - like Kartana doesn’t have to compete with Tough Claws Rayquaza-Mega anymore, as we can clearly see Base Form Rayquaza is nowhere near as fast, or potent.

——————

One thing I will say about Aerodactyl, while it may have lost a niche as a defensive / offensive check fo Rayquaza, it did gain since Ray’s ban, bc we have almost exclusively focused on SpA replacements for Triage and possibly Boomburst, but have we considered Physical sweepers?

I could see Aero on the rise, now that a key check to MMX is banned. Afterall, MMX adapting to the Giratinas surge due to the Ray ban with sets like Focus Energy, etc. with Fleur Cannon, as Zovrah uses means that we need something faster that can check it.

Aerodactyl’s Flying coverage sees use here, especially on Magic Guard Choice Band / LO Aerodactyl-Mega sets, which don’t have to worry about Dazzling like Diancie-Mega, or being speedtied/outsped like Gengar-Mega.

Sure, we also have Beedrill and Pheromosa, but they are unable to KO MMX like Aerodactyl-Mega can, and that will improve its value.

——————

One thing I believe deserves a rise, which wasn’t mentioned, is Necrozma-Ultra.

With Rayquaza-Mega gone, the need for a fast Dragon still remains, as being able to slap on Specs, or a Life Orb and wall break with its current speed tier, is honestly enough to warrant over the rather middling Speed that Kyurem-W offers.

Further, unlike Kyurem-W which has rather redundant Dual STAB, Necrozma’s STAB Photon Geyser and options for Nuke moves off of Psycho Boost remains a good value. Why? Because if it packs Life Orb, it can switch to its equally powerful Attack stat and not feel crippled by a 1x use attack. It also gets the underrated Light that Burns the Sky, which off of its Adaptability set, can use as a Nuke on either Attack or Special Attack to bypass Assault Vest, Fur Coat, etc.

Lastly, while many Pokemon in Ubers have a single strong offensive stat, such as Gengar-Mega, Kartana, etc. Necrozma’s great speed tier and great mixed offense stats allow it to be less predictable, and that alone warrants a review.

Currently, I believe it should be considered for B- rank.

Adaptability LtBtS= 400 Bass Power and bypasses all abilities - which in BH is still over 9,000!. Just super “saiyan”.
 
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Getting some noms in before official update.
:garchomp-mega: B -> B+ I'm not sure about this rise as while Garchomp is pretty good breaker in the meta its unfortunate speed tier in this offensive meta is quite annoying and its 4x Ice Weakness means stuff like MMX can rk easily, unlike some other stuff that lack 4x weaknesses.
:celesteela: B -> B+ This should not be higher than Ho-Oh as its bulk is actually terrible and stuff like Kartana just 2HKOs as well as Specs Diancie. Stay B.
:aerodactyl-mega: B- -> B Not Ho-Oh level and honestly this suffered just as much as it gained. Speed tier is really good but it wants a lot of moves to function which kinda sucks. Also hard to fit on teams.
:ho-oh: B- -> B Could go even higher but yeah this mon is really good as it is hard to force out actually. Aerilate sets have been popping up which is pretty good too.
:cresselia: B- -> B This mon shouldn't rise because a) its usage is horrendous and b) MMY usage isn't very high. Slowbro does better at checking MMX as it takes PH Knock Offs better and eats Fridge sets better. Also very very passive.
:rayquaza: UR -> D Could go higher. Dragon Ascent sets have the ability to Mega which can be pretty good as Delta Stream is very good defensively. C rank is imo better.
:tyranitar-mega: A- -> B+ Could drop more seeing its speed tier is terrible and offensive teams just roll over this with MMX, Diancie, and Sword Gar. B is better imo.
:regigigas: :slaking: B+ -> B Don't think these should drop. People are preparing for these less and hazards are pretty good on them. Also does decently against offense. BTW Slaking to B+ and Gigas to B is possible as Slaking's ability to not lose to PH MMX is pretty big.

:yveltal: B+ -> A- Controversial nom, but this is really solid in checking Gar and also being a really threatening Triage user (Revelation Dance is very powerful). Also best dark so.
:solgaleo: B+ -> B- Why is this still here I thought it was dropped already. NDM outclasses this completely now as it technically has the ability to burst for speed or dragon stab which is a relatively new tech.
:kyurem-white: B- -> B Don't know why this is lower than Cube but yeah this is a pretty threatening breaker rn. Defensive Kyogre usage isn't high and fat steels are declining.
:scizor-mega: D -> C This mon is cool as it tanks Sunsteel from Kartana and can maybe check MMX. It can run both Anchor or U-turn with no FF to improof with any fire move which is very nice with Shed Shell Imp affecting trapping sets.
 

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