Unpopular opinions

[earl]

I can't see a grown man leaving his house dressed like pic 1 but I can see pic 2. Pic one is shoenn over design tier pic 2 is aquatic badass buisness, if you catch my DRIFT [heh]

One conveys the concept of team aqua (already a dipshit crazy team so might as well go all in) compared to a severely nostalgia-goggled view as old Archie both looking professional and "badass" (with that pose? lol). Is he aquatic looking because he has a blue bandana?

 

[Kurona]

I'm not really a fan of either design of Archie, to be honest. The original is so bland and characterless that just about any redesign was welcome in a remake, really; but what they went with was probably a bit too much in the other direction. A little too busy and too obvious with really weird little details (what are the yellow belt pieces? Why does he have a mini cape?) that distract from what could have been a good design.

Either way I find ORAS as a whole a lot more soulless than RSE, and that to me mostly comes down to RSE clearly pushing its capabilities to the limits in terms of what it could do with its tilesets and the GBA's limited graphics capabilities, compared to ORAS having a lot more power at its disposal and doing nothing truly interesting with it, instead opting for a very flat update to the region that at large adds nothing new and which doesn't really improve upon the original in any way beyond "it's 3D now". On a technical level, that tree sure is rendered in 3D and has more pixels and polygons going for it; and yet the 2D sprite consisting of maybe 60 pixels and 5 colours looks a lot more impressive to me.

There are exceptions, of course. As noted, Deoxys' entrance - and in fact the entirety of your little trip into space - stands out as very impressive and exciting, and a true testament to what they could have done with the rest of the game had they the commitment. And for all the criticism it drew for not being a full-fledged Frontier, the Battle Resort is a pretty interesting new area with a lot to do and a lot to explore, with a very pretty aesthetic to it. Mauville clearly had a lot of work put into it and is a unique idea for a settlement - an entire town being a set of flats, essentially - turning perhaps one of Hoenn's least notable towns into something with much more of its own identity to it, which I find a very good thing for this remake to do when Hoenn's MO with settlements was seemingly to have a unique idea to most of them. Mauville now stands alongside Fortree and Dewford as being much more memorable in its concept. Victory Road has similar things going for it.
It's difficult to come up with any other examples, though -- other new elements such as the updates to the Scorched Slab and the Abandoned Power Plant at first impress you with how much they've been changed, but then end up having little draw or visual interest in and of themselves beyond "this is a bit bigger now". Opportunities to improve upon setpieces like Seafloor Cavern or Mt. Chimney were either ignored of half-hearted in their attempts. I would struggle to tell you anything about any of the routes.

As I hope I've illustrated, it's a bit half and half... or perhaps 80/20. Areas like Victory Road and Mauville showcase a clear effort to improve upon what were some of the original's more forgettable and boring aspects, but much of the region that was left well-alone simply doesn't impress as much or breathe as much as its counterpart in the originals. This isn't helped by the continued problems of XY's 3D Pokémon Models which in far too many a case insist on being lifeless, uninspired and characterless in and of themselves; and that definitely doesn't help the experience. Ultimately I much favour replaying Emerald than going back to ORAS, but there's many things I can appreciate about the remake even if on the whole I feel it could have done with a lot more work.

 

[earl]

I'm not really a fan of either design of Archie, to be honest. The original is so bland and characterless that just about any redesign was welcome in a remake, really; but what they went with was probably a bit too much in the other direction. A little too busy and too obvious with really weird little details (what are the yellow belt pieces? Why does he have a mini cape?) that distract from what could have been a good design.

Either way I find ORAS as a whole a lot more soulless than RSE, and that to me mostly comes down to RSE clearly pushing its capabilities to the limits in terms of what it could do with its tilesets and the GBA's limited graphics capabilities, compared to ORAS having a lot more power at its disposal and doing nothing truly interesting with it, instead opting for a very flat update to the region that at large adds nothing new and which doesn't really improve upon the original in any way beyond "it's 3D now". On a technical level, that tree sure is rendered in 3D and has more pixels and polygons going for it; and yet the 2D sprite consisting of maybe 60 pixels and 5 colours looks a lot more impressive to me.

There are exceptions, of course. As noted, Deoxys' entrance - and in fact the entirety of your little trip into space - stands out as very impressive and exciting, and a true testament to what they could have done with the rest of the game had they the commitment. And for all the criticism it drew for not being a full-fledged Frontier, the Battle Resort is a pretty interesting new area with a lot to do and a lot to explore, with a very pretty aesthetic to it. Mauville clearly had a lot of work put into it and is a unique idea for a settlement - an entire town being a set of flats, essentially - turning perhaps one of Hoenn's least notable towns into something with much more of its own identity to it, which I find a very good thing for this remake to do when Hoenn's MO with settlements was seemingly to have a unique idea to most of them. Mauville now stands alongside Fortree and Dewford as being much more memorable in its concept. Victory Road has similar things going for it.
It's difficult to come up with any other examples, though -- other new elements such as the updates to the Scorched Slab and the Abandoned Power Plant at first impress you with how much they've been changed, but then end up having little draw or visual interest in and of themselves beyond "this is a bit bigger now". Opportunities to improve upon setpieces like Seafloor Cavern or Mt. Chimney were either ignored of half-hearted in their attempts. I would struggle to tell you anything about any of the routes.

As I hope I've illustrated, it's a bit half and half... or perhaps 80/20. Areas like Victory Road and Mauville showcase a clear effort to improve upon what were some of the original's more forgettable and boring aspects, but much of the region that was left well-alone simply doesn't impress as much or breathe as much as its counterpart in the originals. This isn't helped by the continued problems of XY's 3D Pokémon Models which in far too many a case insist on being lifeless, uninspired and characterless in and of themselves; and that definitely doesn't help the experience. Ultimately I much favour replaying Emerald than going back to ORAS, but there's many things I can appreciate about the remake even if on the whole I feel it could have done with a lot more work.

I agree with the fact that Emerald is leagues better than ORAS (worst games in the series, remember), but regardless I am overall a big fan of a lot of the character redesigns. Fortree being called a "jungle" but still being full a pinetrees was the biggest disappointment for me, I think.

Man, I hate those games.

 

[stage7_4]

ORAS vs Emerald is more a matter of taste at this point, as both have their ups and downs. Arguing over which has more soul seems to miss the point of game design, as I poured my heart and soul into my Painting 101 class yet my dahlias still look more like bleeding giraffes. Both games have effort and style, it's just whichever is to your taste.

Emerald Pro:
1. Honestly I like the green bandanas on your characters, they give a color splash the old palates really needed.
2. Having both Magma and Aqua fighting each other was intriguing.
3. The Battle Frontier, all of it.
4. Contests might not be as flashy but still have more strategy than their replacements.

Emerald Con:
1. Your rival is the lamest in the series, never even fully evolving their starter.
2. Magma/Aqua trying to be serious just highlights how stupid their plans are. ORAS redesigns may look silly but they are fitting for this group of Captain Planet villains.
3. While I like Wallace and Juan, Steven Stone is the more interesting Champion and he's really under utilized in Emerald.
4. I can honestly barely remember that Aqua/Magma even had admins much less what they looked like.
5. Features tied to that dumb e-reader or Wondercard. Like, half the Sevii Islands were in the game but sure as heck nobody outside of Japan can reach them.
6. If you tried to play the game right now, odds are the internal battery has died and Hoenn has experienced a time crash. Food shortages are abundant as berries will refuse to grow, days refuse to progress forward, the citizens have become apathetic as their lives stretch onwards to infinity with nothing ever changing. It is the heat death of the R/S/E universe.
7. The most humane thing would be to use the link cable to redirect the delta meteor to the R/S/E Hoenn to annihilate the planet so the endless banality of existence may cease. That is, if Zinnia wasn't being such a stuck-up brat about it.

For things specific to ORAS (that aren't just re-stating the above)
ORAS pro:
1. Dexnav is amazing, love the dexnav, live the dexnav.
2. The change from the Abandoned Ship to Sea Mauville were more interesting, as despite the easy high concept of an abandoned ship it was rather tame. So a half-sunk oil platform with a really creepy history was for the best.
3. You can fly on a Lati@s. And the whole map is rendered for it!

ORAS con:
1. The Delta episode had some nice moments with your rival and going to space, but the whole Zinnia plot was just dumb. So dumb. I'm not a big fan of throwing this word around, but Zinnia was a complete Mary Sue.

le gasp

LE GASP!

I'm sorry derpy shocked pikachu but she is, Zinnia drops exposition left and right like a scientist despite being a college drop-out hobo, tried to destroy the world twice if we count her sabotaging the first meteor destroying plan, and we all are supposed to be sorry for her because her girl-buddy died (of completely unrelated causes to the plot at large).

2. The reason the Game Corner is gone felt kinda mean spirited. They could have left the message out or given us voltorb flip or something.
3. Mr. Bonding, the origin story. I still have nightmares.

 

[earl]

6. If you tried to play the game right now, odds are the internal battery has died and Hoenn has experienced a time crash. Food shortages are abundant as berries will refuse to grow, days refuse to progress forward, the citizens have become apathetic as their lives stretch onwards to infinity with nothing ever changing. It is the heat death of the R/S/E universe.

Emulate for your own sanity

 

[Yung Dramps]

Here's my actual hot take: ORAS is at least on par with HGSS as the best set of remakes in the series. Dexnav, new megas, expanded Pokedex, revamps for underutilized/poorly utilized characters in the originals like the Aqua/Magma admins and Wally, finally getting to use some Hoenn mons in their home post-physical-special split (Crawdaunt, Absol, Sharpedo), secret bases and G O O D L O R D T H A T S O U N D T R A C K O H M Y G O D. In addition, if it had Battle Frontier, this would be a popular opinion.

 

[stage7_4]

leonard (from big bang theory) If I could emulate GBA games I wouldn't even be here, I'd be playing Mother 3.

That's a lie, I'd be replacing the background music tracks in every pokemon game with Hold On by Wilson Phillips.

 

[earl]

leonard (from big bang theory) If I could emulate GBA games I wouldn't even be here, I'd be playing Mother 3.

That's a lie, I'd be replacing the background music tracks in every pokemon game with Hold On by Wilson Phillips.

No computer or smartphone? Really anything can emulate GBA nowadays

 

[Kurona]

expanded Pokedex,

Not to cherrypick, but this barely seems like a point worth considering when it's just a handful of evolutions/pre-evolutions; the pre-evolutions which aren't really accessible and serve no point, and the evolutions not even being available until late-game. Arguably this actually acts as a point against it, as the new evolutions like Gallade and Dusknoir which could have been cool to use can barely even be considered accessible to you.

The Dexnav I must admit I find a little overhyped. It has a lot of things going for it, but the slightest thing can render your search over; and you can pretty much forget about using it in any caves or some of the narrower water routes. It also takes far, far too long and far too many encounters to run into anything of note; leaving it as a feature only really of use to the hardcore shinyhunters or IV hunters (who have better means anyway). It's interesting but could have used a lot more work to be good. Guess that's my thread title for the day.

 

[Eruvala]

ORAS is at least on par with HGSS

 

[stage7_4]

No computer or smartphone? Really anything can emulate GBA nowadays

It's more because I'm terrible at being an internet pirate and can't find the legit emulators. But let's cut that conversation on the forums and PM me if you know something.

To keep this conversation valid, I agree that DexNav ain't perfect but it is by far the best version of finding/chaining pokemon for IVs and egg moves we have seen in this series (shinies being more debatable, I had more luck at the Friend Safari or SOS battles).

 

[Luisar2002]

Soul in games can enhance the experience, but not carry it, games like HGSS relly on the "soul" so much that they forget that they are supposed to be a videogame, ending up with stuff like terrible starter balance, the worst level gap i've ever seen on an RPG besides fire emblem revelations, the empty waste of data that is kanto....

You can critizise the looks of a game, but judging the game based exclusively on how it looks is being superficial as fuck, fire emblem three houses looks like garbage yet almost everyone on the fanbase loves it, you know why? because it's a funtional game. ORAS is garbage, but it's garbage because it drastically changed the level design of the game for the worse, to the point of it not being fun anymore, if the remake actually improved the design of the game but still looked soulless, i would still defend it until the end of my life, period. This is an RPG, not a walking simulator/visual novel/glorified nintendogs, and the franchise will only improve when they realize that.

 

[Kurona]

I'm not terribly fond of the implication that a focus on the look of the game is superficial, or that the game is even being judged solely upon that when not only was the conversation focusing on the feel and soul of the game; but you've also mistaken "feel and soul" for "graphic design" when it also applies to narrative, sound design, character. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I find it equally superficial to look at a game purely - or heavily - in terms of its numbers, its coding and its balance. Without artistic direction, without sound design, without some form of character; the function means nothing. A good example that comes to mind is XY; a game that is technically sound, that functions fine, that doesn't have too many balance problems if you decide against going with certain things like Mega Lucario or the Exp. Share, but is still so dull and boring and half-hearted in what it does with pretty much any element of its storytelling and visual design that there's not a lot of people that would call it one of their favourites or go back to play it much.

In the scenario you've laid out where ORAS was not just as competently made as RSE but actually improved upon many of its mistakes to be technically superior, but looked and felt as bad if not worse than it is now... then I would still far, far prefer Emerald. Judging a game on its function is just as superficial as judging a game on its graphic design, and to toss aside one as if it's not anywhere near as important as the other is in my eyes quite naive and unaware as to how we consume media. And, if I may; comes across as a little ironic coming from someone with a Dragon Quest XI avatar; a game that quite heavily relies on the beauty of its world.



Also, I would disagree that FE:3H looks garbage and very heavily disagree that function is the pure reason people like it. You might argue that its graphics aren't quite as high quality as they could be; but fantastic art direction and some of the best character design the series has seen in years (granted, Fates set the bar pretty low) greatly pulls it through; to say nothing of other elements like the intriguing story, the loveable characters that the game forms its emotional core around, and the as-always fantastic music. There are low points such as the unfortunate blend of 3D and cel-shading used for cutscenes which I really wish FE would realise are not a good idea, but they are just not enough to hurt this game much at all. I would highly contest people only like FE:3H because it is functional when so much of the fan reception has been focused on how much they love the characters and narrative.

 

[Luisar2002]

I'm not terribly fond of the implication that a focus on the look of the game is superficial, or that the game is even being judged solely upon that when not only was the conversation focusing on the feel and soul of the game; but you've also mistaken "feel and soul" for "graphic design" when it also applies to narrative, sound design, character. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I find it equally superficial to look at a game purely - or heavily - in terms of its numbers, its coding and its balance. Without artistic direction, without sound design, without some form of character; the function means nothing. A good example that comes to mind is XY; a game that is technically sound, that functions fine, that doesn't have too many balance problems if you decide against going with certain things like Mega Lucario or the Exp. Share, but is still so dull and boring and half-hearted in what it does with pretty much any element of its storytelling and visual design that there's not a lot of people that would call it one of their favourites or go back to play it much.

In the scenario you've laid out where ORAS was not just as competently made as RSE but actually improved upon many of its mistakes to be technically superior, but looked and felt as bad if not worse than it is now... then I would still far, far prefer Emerald. Judging a game on its function is just as superficial as judging a game on its graphic design, and to toss aside one as if it's not anywhere near as important as the other is in my eyes quite naive and unaware as to how we consume media. And, if I may; comes across as a little ironic coming from someone with a Dragon Quest XI avatar; a game that quite heavily relies on the beauty of its world.



Also, I would disagree that FE:3H looks garbage and very heavily disagree that function is the pure reason people like it. You might argue that its graphics aren't quite as high quality as they could be; but fantastic art direction and some of the best character design the series has seen in years (granted, Fates set the bar pretty low) greatly pulls it through; to say nothing of other elements like the intriguing story, the loveable characters that the game forms its emotional core around, and the as-always fantastic music. There are low points such as the unfortunate blend of 3D and cel-shading used for cutscenes which I really wish FE would realise are not a good idea, but they are just not enough to hurt this game much at all. I would highly contest people only like FE:3H because it is functional when so much of the fan reception has been focused on how much they love the characters and narrative.

1-No i didn't mistaked "feel and soul" with graphic design, yes i stand still with my take on it. Narrative, sound design, character...all of those are almost like the sauce of a videogame, they can make it better, but if you are eating a piece of shit, it's going to taste bad no matter how much sauce you use. Also, XY IS a poorly funtional game and it sucks because of it, and no, doing stupìd selfchallanges won't solve anything, if we could justify any poor design choice with "don't use it", then literally every RPG in existance is a masterpiece. Second, if games that lack "feel and soul" but compensatewith solid function "means nothing", then why are arcade games still popular to this day? hell, why do people keep playing chess to this day? because it's a funtional, well designed competitive turn based strategy game, and for literally no other reason. And calling me hypocrite for saying that gameplay is more important than soul on a videogame is honestly stupid for one reason alone, videogames was a genre that was created to be played, it has been and is supposed to be the main focus, the only exceptions are genres that sacrifice gameplay entirely like visual novels, but RPGs are not an exception to this rule. Stories and graphics in videogames are doomed to be inferior to the stories and visuals of movies on almost every single example because movies are a genre specifically designed to support those while videogames have to be careful with stuff like ludonarrative dissonance, so if you think that both gameplay and stories are about as vital for a game, why not just watch a movie for less than 1/5 the price and even better "soul"? Videogames have to relly on replayable value and mechanics to justify their high price, after all, a solid gameplay can make you want to replay a game multiple times, but with the story and visuals, once you have experience it, that's it, you can just listen to the songs on youtube/the soundtest of the game and you already know the story, so it's never the reason of why you come back to a game, or at least not the main reason.

2-I main hero in smash ultimate, i will change my profile pick into something that defines my taste on games more accurrectly if that's what you want to see.

3-I will give you that point.

 

[stage7_4]

ORAS is garbage, but it's garbage because it drastically changed the level design of the game for the worse, to the point of it not being fun anymore,

Gonna zero in on this right here because it doesn't make sense to me. Besides visually the routes and levels are nearly identical to Ruby and Sapphire, with the only significant changes being to Mauville City and Sea Mauville replacing the Abandoned Ship which (in my opinion) are big improvements over the originals.

Route 117 a visual comparison

Oh no, they moved the double battle to the south of the trees, RUINED FOREVER!!

I'm kidding, but still can't really get behind "they ruined the level design" when they are so similar.

 

[Luisar2002]

Gonna zero in on this right here because it doesn't make sense to me. Besides visually the routes and levels are nearly identical to Ruby and Sapphire, with the only significant changes being to Mauville City and Sea Mauville replacing the Abandoned Ship which (in my opinion) are big improvements over the originals.

View attachment 195181View attachment 195182

Is the fact that they shifted the double-battle to the south on Route 117 bothering you?

I'm kidding, but still can't really get behind "they ruined the level design" when they are so similar.

With level design i meant level progression and stuff like that, gen 3 was already really easy but ORAS not only gave you an exp share and didn't designed the game around it, but they also gave you a free mega lati@s on the midgame for literally no reason. Babysitting doesn't even begin to describe ORAS' ""difficulty""

 

[stage7_4]

With level design i meant level progression and stuff like that, gen 3 was already really easy but ORAS not only gave you an exp share and didn't designed the game around it, but they also gave you a free mega lati@s on the midgame for literally no reason. Babysitting doesn't even begin to describe ORAS' ""difficulty""

Okay, that's a fair enough point but remember that the game never forces you to use either the exp share nor Lati@s, so if you're finding the game too easy nobody forced you to keep the training wheels on.

While yes the presentation of difficulty options and what the intended difficulty curve is are certainly arguments to be had (as the exp share defaults to on, for example), singling out ORAS as the lone offender doesn't seem fair. This entire series has had a problem providing challenge, ORAS was nothing new.

 

[Kurona]

Gonna zero in on this right here because it doesn't make sense to me. Besides visually the routes and levels are nearly identical to Ruby and Sapphire, with the only significant changes being to Mauville City and Sea Mauville replacing the Abandoned Ship which (in my opinion) are big improvements over the originals.

Route 117 a visual comparison

View attachment 195181View attachment 195182
Oh no, they moved the double battle to the south of the trees, RUINED FOREVER!!

I'm kidding, but still can't really get behind "they ruined the level design" when they are so similar.

Oh, Sea Mauville! That completely slipped my mind.

I'm very, very half and half on Sea Mauville because while I'm a fan of it in and of itself, the original atmosphere and design of the Abandoned Ship was not just fine, but a high point of the game in my opinion. I loved that it was just this abandoned wreck that only you, a scientist and a handful of trainers are only really just discovering; and Sea Mauville being almost... commercialised, turned into more or less a tourist attraction heavily takes away from that feeling of adventure, which I feel sums up a lot of problems with modern Pokémon. Rather than you finding these places on your own through your own hard work and going out of your way and remembering things, you're pretty much told these place exist and more often than not there's people there to greet you.

That said... there's nothing wrong with Sea Mauville on its own, and despite what I just said; I like that they at least kept the "come back as you get more tools" aspect and that what you use dive for for instance is still something you discover on your own rather than being laser-focused into. And, heck, that creates an entirely different positive aspect to it as well -- sure, these people have discovered this wreck and turned it into a commercialised reserve; but they don't know what's underneath. So I did at least like that part even if overall I did prefer the Abandoned Ship.

 

[Luisar2002]

Okay, that's a fair enough point but remember that the game never forces you to use either the exp share nor Lati@s, so if you're finding the game too easy nobody forced you to keep the training wheels on.

While yes the presentation of difficulty options and what the intended difficulty curve is are certainly arguments to be had (as the exp share defaults to on, for example), singling out ORAS as the lone offender doesn't seem fair. This entire series has had a problem providing challenge, ORAS was nothing new.

Again with the "if you don't like it, don't use it", i already mentioned posts above but i will say it once again, you can't justify the design flaws of the game with that, should we justify sonic forces' broken boost with "just don't use it"? should we justify jump forces' horribly designed high speed counter with a "just don't use it"? Of course we shouldn't, and pokemon is not an exception, this isn't a difficulty system, they are tools that the game gave to you, you know what i call intentionally limiting your options for the sake of a bigger challenge? a self-challenge run, should we judge the game based on that? Fucking no.

 

[Merritt]

Route 117 a visual comparison

View attachment 195181View attachment 195182
Oh no, they moved the double battle to the south of the trees, RUINED FOREVER!!

Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire are remakes of Pokemon Ruby and Sapphire, not Emerald. The double battle was on the southern side of the patch of trees in RS, in Emerald they're on the northern side.

The actual change is the path down the middle of the route.

 

[Eruvala]

Z moves, megas, the transition to 3d, power creep, many legends every generation, the absence of battle frontier etc has set this series in a downward spiral. I thank the skies every day for gen's III-V.

 

[earl]

Z moves, megas, the transition to 3d, power creep, many legends every generation, the absence of battle frontier etc has set this series in a downward spiral. I thank the skies every day for gen's III-V.

I'd argue Gen 5 is the poster child for power creep. Or at least where it really began, with each following gen just continuing the trend

 

[Luisar2002]

Z moves, megas, the transition to 3d, power creep, many legends every generation, the absence of battle frontier etc has set this series in a downward spiral. I thank the skies every day for gen's III-V.

Z moves and megas were horrible ingame, one powering your mon up to the point of the already scrubby opponents not having any chance of beating it and the other giving you a free nuke every battle, which is even worse when every trainer in the region has 2 or 1 mon only. I also agree that the jump to 3d was a huge flop, i would say it was even worse than sonic's jump to 3D. Powercreep and legendaries only affect competitive so i won't talk about it. I don't see many reasons for the battle frontier to return tbh, it is just battle spot singles with some gimmicks, im definitively not going to miss it if it never comes back, hell,i would prefer the contests over it lmao.

 

[Eruvala]

I'd argue Gen 5 is the poster child for power creep. Or at least where it really began, with each following gen just continuing the trend

I would actually agree, I love the campaign of gen V but going back and playing gen V ou is gross to me, gen V uu is literally gen 4 OU. The games themselves though were 9/10 save for the pixel-distortion that plauged odd camera angles and battle sprites that felt robotic, the cast in gen V of mons is polarizing but they have grown on me, for the most part. Post game I tend to stick to emerald and HG/SS and Plat

 

[Codraroll]

Power creep has been pretty bad in recent generations too. Have a look at the top eight teams of this year's Masters division in VGC. Forty-eight Pokémon slots in total. Between them, only six slots were taken up by Pokémon from Generations I to V. Those were three Amoonguss, two Tornadus and one Umbreon. Three different species. The remaining 42 slots were filled with Pokémon whose forme used in battle originated in Generations VI and VII. Which are the two smallest generations by number of introduced Pokémon, mind you. Although I don't really agree with their chosen method to do so, I can honestly understand why Game Freak would want to start again with a blank slate.