-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
BH BH7 Suspect Poll 8: Species Clause vs Shell Smash [Read Post #52 re: Forme Clause][Suspect Shed Selected]
- Thread starter E4 Flint
- Start date
- Status
But what about Formes of Arceus or Magearna whom can literally use 2 forms of the same type, stats, and abilities without any differences beyond aesthetics.
Are Magearna and Arceus deemed not good enough to be considered a factor?
While typically not offensive enough to be top tier threats, is there any reason for them to be able to bypass the rule? I just fear that someone could spam 2-3 of them while everything else gets impacted by this limit. Any Arceus without Multi-type + Plate gets to be a Normal type, while Magearna gets a fraternal twin just based on a Copper and Golden hue.
I also think this should be discussed because Gen 8 could have similar implications if they allow multiple forms with loopholes on absolutely zero changes to their type, stats, etc. as Arceus has shown.
Do these Pokemon get a free pass? Can people spam Arceus?
I don’t want to badger, but I do think the community should get clarity, as this is a first, Gen 7 is literally ending, and will literally set the precedence for Gen 8 in... 5 weeks.
Last edited:
Aesthetic changes, such as Gastrodon or Unown, are called forms. We define formes as Pokémon with more than just aesthetic differences - as Pokémon with stats or type changes. With that said, a GhostCeus that looks like a FightCeus is still a GhostCeus. Under Forme Clause, you should not be able to run two GhostCeus even if they look different. As for Magearna, it is purely aesthetic.
I had the reqs before my last loss and quite frankly, I don't really feel like climbing again, so please don't force me to do it again. Personally, I want to do away with all meta morphing garbage that isn't imposter (the only borked shit that happens to be good for the meta) (41/54=75%).
With that in mind, I propose getting rid of meta molding pokemon/ability combos like norm gengar+sheddy, strong insta set up (shell smash/belly drum/geomancy+power herb/evoboost), species spam (implement 2 form clause so mewtwo x and mewtwo y can be used on the same team).
Reasons
(Normgar isn't the most awful thing ever, but needing to run counters to it is so freaking annoying, and I'd rather not be forced to ALWAYS run something to deal with it) (Well made and played sheddy teams can be virtually impenetrable) (Shell Smoosh and other strong Set up forces prankster spam and can take out at least one poke per set up if you don't anticipate the smoosh or belly drum) (Species spam in tandem with strong set up is so terrible. Lose your check to one of them- boom- can't win)
Basically, get rid of the rest of the meta centralizing nonsense, and this meta will be substantially less obnoxious (or least I think so).
Also, I apologize to anyone on the ladder that I harassed when I lost. My bad.
E4: Took your vote as for Other: shed as it seems to be the thing you seem to support the most to suspect
With that in mind, I propose getting rid of meta molding pokemon/ability combos like norm gengar+sheddy, strong insta set up (shell smash/belly drum/geomancy+power herb/evoboost), species spam (implement 2 form clause so mewtwo x and mewtwo y can be used on the same team).
Reasons
(Normgar isn't the most awful thing ever, but needing to run counters to it is so freaking annoying, and I'd rather not be forced to ALWAYS run something to deal with it) (Well made and played sheddy teams can be virtually impenetrable) (Shell Smoosh and other strong Set up forces prankster spam and can take out at least one poke per set up if you don't anticipate the smoosh or belly drum) (Species spam in tandem with strong set up is so terrible. Lose your check to one of them- boom- can't win)
Basically, get rid of the rest of the meta centralizing nonsense, and this meta will be substantially less obnoxious (or least I think so).
Also, I apologize to anyone on the ladder that I harassed when I lost. My bad.
E4: Took your vote as for Other: shed as it seems to be the thing you seem to support the most to suspect
Last edited by a moderator:
I have tallied the results.
But it's probably better to visualize it this way:
The results certainly surprised and informed me. I have decided based on the fact that:
I will leave a grace period of a couple days in case you see that there is a mistake I've made with your vote, and for planning the next suspect. Thanks all for voting!
| user | Forme Clause | Shell Smash | Other: Shedinja | Other: Name Clause | Other: none | |
| Quantum Tesseract | 1 | |||||
| In The Hills | 1 | |||||
| fwqef | 1 | |||||
| chessking345 | 1 | |||||
| willdbeast | 1 | |||||
| Marsopa Trump & Test Rex | 1 | |||||
| Chloe | 1 | |||||
| WhitePhoenixAce | 1 | |||||
| motherlove | 1 | |||||
| Funbot28 | 1 | |||||
| Mickle314 | 1 | |||||
| a loser | 1 | |||||
| abriel gabram | 1 | |||||
| Chazm | 1 | |||||
| Cfchor | 1 | |||||
| pazza | 1 | |||||
| tzop | 1 | |||||
| OM! | 1 | |||||
| Gurpreet Patel | 1 | |||||
| ElMustacho | 1 | |||||
| GL Volkner | 1 | |||||
| Anaconja | 1 | |||||
| ShedMiddleFinga | 1 | |||||
| Ransei | 1 | |||||
| Balanced Freakmons | 1 | |||||
| LaBalladeDesCieux | 1 | |||||
| Andyboy | 1 | |||||
| DarkBersker | 1 | |||||
| Pyroshi02 | 1 | |||||
| SuperSkylake | 1 | |||||
| Magii | 1 | |||||
| Rumors | 1 | |||||
| thepotato513 | 1 | |||||
| Coldembrace | 1 | |||||
| DF-Shock | 1 | |||||
| Jho | 1 | |||||
| Catalystic | 1 | |||||
| PinkDragonTamer | 1 | |||||
| xavgb | 1 | |||||
| Betathunder | 1 | |||||
| SectoniaServant | 1 | |||||
| jasprose | 1 | |||||
| E4 Flint | 1 | |||||
| finally | 1 | |||||
| hosemisnuba | 1 | |||||
| xapx | 1 | |||||
| Totals | 17 | 0 | 20 | 1 | 8 | 46 |
- it won in raw numbers
- it was brought up even when it wasn't one of the original options
- most opinions support that it ought to have a suspect - moreso than the original options. There is also better reasoning for it than that I've seen for the other options (something which I've posted about in the suspects thread)
- Even in the votes for species/forme clause and others, there are notes where people say "this should be looked at" referencing shed
- There is still a sizable chunk of the vote that said (in reference to the original options) that no action is needed. This combined with my previous comment about how the arguments for forme clause don't really cover everything I wanted makes me think it should wait
I will leave a grace period of a couple days in case you see that there is a mistake I've made with your vote, and for planning the next suspect. Thanks all for voting!
- Status