SPOILERS! Pokemon Sword and Shield Datamine Thread

[PimpParasect]

What do you think are the best Hurricane spammers available?

I doubt we'll see it, but I had my eye on hurricane butterfree. Its probably way too difficult setup with, but if you could manage 2 quiver dances with sleep power, and D-max, you can hit things with tinted lens like a truck, not to mention speed boost for using it to avoid scarf revenge killers.

Unsure what power Max hurricane becomes but:

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Tinted Lens Butterfree Hurricane (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 325-382 (100.3 - 117.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 SpA Life Orb Butterfree Hurricane (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Toxapex: 259-305 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

Unlike frosmoth, coverage isn't necessary.

EDIT: just realized damage calc didn't include the life orb because of Z moves, ecks dee.

EDIT 2: swapped calcs with the actual Max hurricane damage

 

[Rarycaris]

Unsure what power Max hurricane becomes

140. Max moves never go over 150, and 150 is basically reserved for special cases.

 

[Nokocchi]

By the way, on the topic of Arcanine... it has been over 20 years, and GROWLithe still can't learn GROWL...

To be fair, it's original Japanese name is Gardie, which has nothing to do with Growling. Game Freak couldn't give a toss about what anything is called in any non-Japanese languages, especially stuff from really early gens where they had absolutely nothing to do with the choices of the various localization teams(they still are pretty hands-off for those, but they've worked closely with them since Gen VI for the purpose of releasing the games in all regions at the same time with all supported languages as options when you first start the game)

 

[Missingno.1998]

Just noticed when Zamazenta changes into its Shield Form, it loses 10 points in speed, while Zacian does not lose anything its sword form. Wow, not only does Zamazenta get clear un-favoritism, they really really did not think about balance with Zacion did they?

Not at all. I am so surprised they didn't give it less defense and more special attack. They usually give the box legends a high powered stat that they barely used.

 

[MrHands]

So you're saying *gasp* that the mechanic isn't broken, just certain users are?

No he's just saying the earliest broken users of dynamax have been found. Are we going to ban multiple pokemon that are only broken due to one single game mechanic? How many Pokemon will be fine but "broken when Dynamaxed"?

How long until we see dual screens + shell smash dynamax. I can't imagine that's going to be particularly skilled to play against. I'm sure there are plenty of other ways to break this.

Even just looking at it in a vacuum it gives you 2x hp and a 25%~ boost to your moves on top of the overpowered special effects like summoning rain or buffing your attack just for attacking.

It's clearly not a mechanic that rewards skill. This is going to be leagues worse than Z moves. Might be fun for a while though.

 

[TrainerX493]

Someone posted the list of move data into a spreadsheet. I edited a little for readability: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...vs5seF8ohDfhOiitp2q6IHXQUIc/edit?usp=drivesdk

 

[Siggu]

Someone posted the list of move data into a spreadsheet. I edited a little for readability: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...vs5seF8ohDfhOiitp2q6IHXQUIc/edit?usp=drivesdk

I noticed that Decorate is set to fail during a Sky Battle. Even though Sky Battles were only present in Gen VI.

... why?

 

[DrPumpkinz]

You do realize that their idea of what is best of the meta is simply what they believe is enjoyable right? Their opinion of what ought to be accepted doesn't outweigh anyone else's simply because of expertise. The majority rules not the best

Don't make me laugh. When balancing a meta, taking the majority opinion without filtering for skill is a hilariously bad idea. If Smogon did that, Darkrai and Aegislash would probably be terrorizing Gen 7 OU right now. If anything, Smogon should care even less about what unskilled players think, and stop tiering strictly by usage. Why do you think Jolteon is trapped in RU where it's complete asscheeks, instead of being allowed to drop to NU where it could actually find a niche?

 

[doipy hooves]

I noticed that Decorate is set to fail during a Sky Battle. Even though Sky Battles were only present in Gen VI.

... why?

No Gen 8 move has that flag. You probably saw the TRUE next to it that determines if the move animates if you use it on an ally in a double battle.

 

[Gen 8991]

Somebody who played the Nexus server, what are the viable options for defog/rapid spin looking like besides Excadrill? Really disappointed they took out Rotom's defog and pain split.

 

[Davidp]

Anybody have a link to the competitive team building thread?

 

[Obstagod]

I definitely agree that tiering should be determined by more than just usage, and that the tier naming scheme should be changed to reflect that as well. "Over/Under-Used" kinda loses its meaning when they're being tiered mostly by viability and not strictly by what's flavour of the month/generation imo!

 

[DrPumpkinz]

Somebody who played the Nexus server, what are the viable options for defog/rapid spin looking like besides Excadrill? Really disappointed they took out Rotom's defog and pain split.

I'm not sure how it's set up on Nexus, but once Home drops and transfering becomes possible, Rotom will probably be able to use Defog again. You just need to teach it Defog in USUM first.

 

[Guillerbro]

Somebody who played the Nexus server, what are the viable options for defog/rapid spin looking like besides Excadrill? Really disappointed they took out Rotom's defog and pain split.

conkeldurr has defog for whatever reason, thought that was funny

 

[Gen 8991]

I'm not sure how it's set up on Nexus, but once Home drops and transfering becomes possible, Rotom will probably be able to use Defog again. You just need to teach it Defog in USUM first.

When you transfer Pokemon from other games, it apparently gives you a message saying "the pokemon can no longer learn this move" and asks you to remove it before transferring occurs.

 

[Gen 8991]

conkeldurr has defog for whatever reason, thought that was funny

Yeah really weird considering they really narrowed down the pool of users

 

[DrPumpkinz]

When you transfer Pokemon from other games, it apparently gives you a message saying "the pokemon can no longer learn this move" and asks you to remove it before transferring occurs.

I thought that was just for moves that got deleted entirely.

 

[Guillerbro]

432 Defog Farfetch’d-1, Weezing-1, Hoothoot, Seedot, Drifloon, Pidove, Timburr, Rufflet, Braviary, Vullaby, Mandibuzz, Hawlucha, Noibat, Rowlet, Rookidee, Cramorant-0, Cramorant-1, Cramorant-2, Sirfetch’d, Frosmoth
229 Rapid Spin Squirtle, Wartortle, Blastoise, Mr. Mime-1, Delibird, Tyrogue, Hitmontop, Torkoal, Baltoy, Claydol, Drilbur, Excadrill, Bergmite, Avalugg, Bounsweet, Steenee, Tsareena, Turtonator, Dhelmise, Gossifleur, Eldegoss, Rolycoly, Carkol, Coalossal, Mr. Rime, Morpeko-0, Morpeko-1

 

[doipy hooves]

When you transfer Pokemon from other games, it apparently gives you a message saying "the pokemon can no longer learn this move" and asks you to remove it before transferring occurs.

We have no idea how Pokeman Home or transferring works. The only message we know of is a generic move description for the removed (but seeable) moves that tells you it can't be used and to remove it.

 

[Gen 8991]

Yeah you guys are right, I misread that; I hope we can transfer returning moves

 

[zferolie]

I have a question for eldgoss. Looking into movesets or potential for using it. Looks to be a great tank with regenerator and leech seed. Rapid spin could help it a lot with the speed boost it gets. However, not sure on the other moves. A stab move like giga drain yes, but the other moves it gets seem to be pollen puff or normal moves. Pollen puff may be good but your coverage may not be great.

Also, any point in using cotton guard over regenerator?

 

[Gen 8991]

Cotton guard seems a bit pointless because there isn't much you can do as far as status besides leech seed and sing to wear down the opponent; regenerator at least allows you to rapid spin and maybe throw out a stab leaf storm as you can reset stats and health upon switch out.

edit: leech seed and giga drain with a recovery item could give it a lot of health back to support its wall capabilities, but it would just be too passive against a switch that walls it because it has pretty low coverage

 

[Plasmaster09]

Thanks for flooding the thread...

it was an accident- around half of those were meant to be posted earlier but if you try to reply to multiple things before hitting post it treats them as one post

I think Cursed Body might still be preferred, since it doesn't rely on contact, and doesn't force Corsola to switch. Though if Dynamaxing does end up getting banned, I can see Perish Body being a powerful tool against certain physical sweepers, as they would be forced to switch out and lose their boosts. Though with Dynamaxing, Perish Body probably isn't much of an issue, unless Max moves can make contact.

Also, if you want to reply to multiple people at once, please for the love of god do it all in a single comment.

When I do that, even by accident, people complain that I'm flooding the thread.
Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

 

[DrPumpkinz]

I have a question for eldgoss. Looking into movesets or potential for using it. Looks to be a great tank with regenerator and leech seed. Rapid spin could help it a lot with the speed boost it gets. However, not sure on the other moves. A stab move like giga drain yes, but the other moves it gets seem to be pollen puff or normal moves. Pollen puff may be good but your coverage may not be great.

Also, any point in using cotton guard over regenerator?

Synthesis could be good for instant recovery, and it can spread status with Sleep Powder and Stun Spore, and it can cure status with Aromatherapy.

Regenerator seems like the better ability, at least in Singles.

When I do that, even by accident, people complain that I'm flooding the thread.
Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

I don't why someone complained to you about replying to multiple people in a single comment, because it's vastly preferred to making several separate posts in quick succession.

 

[Plasmaster09]

Don't make me laugh. When balancing a meta, taking the majority opinion without filtering for skill is a hilariously bad idea. If Smogon did that, Darkrai and Aegislash would probably be terrorizing Gen 7 OU right now. If anything, Smogon should care even less about what unskilled players think, and stop tiering strictly by usage. Why do you think Jolteon is trapped in RU where it's complete asscheeks, instead of being allowed to drop to NU where it could actually find a niche?

Yeah, usage/opinion tiering is bullshit. Replace "used" with "viable" or "powered" (AG, OP, Underpowered, Barely Viable, Nonviable).
If Smogon took the majority opinion, then things would be banned just for being mildly annoying- Togekiss, Shaymin-Sky and many others would be in AG just because people don't like fighting them.

Synthesis could be good for instant recovery, and it can spread status with Sleep Powder and Stun Spore, and it can cure status with Aromatherapy.

Regenerator seems like the better ability, at least in Singles.


I don't why someone complained to you about replying to multiple people in a single comment, because it's vastly preferred to making several separate posts in quick succession.

I don't know either.
Although it might have to do with the fact that it was like six replies in one post by accident.

MOD EDIT: Stop double posting! - CRoll