I thought the standard item was safety goggles? With Pursuit gone Shedinja has even less to worry about.
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Metagame SS OU Metagame Discussion (Usage stats in post #944)
- Thread starter TPP
- Start date
- Status
Rk/force out Sub Dragapult/Aegi/Chandelure/Dracozolt/Eiscue/hydreigon ( hex does 30+ish if statued )/togekiss (max ghost helps a lot since "base hex is quite weak )
I also played a bit of stall this gen , Iron head max steelstrike Corv helps getting rid of Hatterene and lo Clef , the tech works well and most of times it catches peoples of guard .
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Heavy Duty Boots is now considered the best Shedinja item
Hey there everyone. I'd like to bring a bit of attention to an archetype that's seen a bit of resurgence this generation - Trick Room teams. Trick Room has gotten an absolute boon this generation, from the massive influx of new Trick Room abusers due to the slower nature of Gen 8, to the great new Trick Room setters that we've received. I'd like to show off some Pokemon that I've found very interesting to use on Trick Room teams in this post. (I'll make a post about Trick Room setters and additional Trick Room abusers in the future once I've done some more testing).
I'll make some more Trick Room related posts when I find Pokemon I've had a lot of success with. Until then, I hope you find these Pokemon to your liking!
Arctovish
Stats:
Details:
Pincurchin
Stats:
Details:
Greedent
Stats:
Details:
Stats:
HP: 90
Attack: 90
Defense: 100
Special Attack: 80
Special Defense: 90
Speed: 55
Attack: 90
Defense: 100
Special Attack: 80
Special Defense: 90
Speed: 55
Details:
Arctovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fishious Rend
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Icicle Crash
This. Is. The. Only. Pokemon. To. Get. Fishious. Rend. Other. Than. Dracovish.
Now you're probably thinking "isn't this the worst of the fossils?" You'd be right to think that, however you shouldn't underestimate the qualities that Arctovish has as a Pokemon just because it's not as good as Dracovish. Firstly, STAB Fishious Rend under Rain still hits like an absolute truck, even without a Strong Jaw boost. Second, Water Absorb means it's not intimidated by the Dracovish Fishious Rends going around. It's a tad bulkier on the Special side as well having great 90 / 100 / 90 bulk, a water immunity and a quad resistance to Ice. Being able to reset its own rain via Dynamax is useful as well. It gets great coverage (along with other options not mentioned on this set such as Rock Slide / Stone Edge for Max Rockfall. Obviously there are some shortfalls with Water / Ice defensive typing, but most of the time you're going to be nuking them anyways, and with Trick Room set up you'll be going first more often than Scarf Dracovish would go first in typical OU play.
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Fishious Rend
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Icicle Crash
This. Is. The. Only. Pokemon. To. Get. Fishious. Rend. Other. Than. Dracovish.
Now you're probably thinking "isn't this the worst of the fossils?" You'd be right to think that, however you shouldn't underestimate the qualities that Arctovish has as a Pokemon just because it's not as good as Dracovish. Firstly, STAB Fishious Rend under Rain still hits like an absolute truck, even without a Strong Jaw boost. Second, Water Absorb means it's not intimidated by the Dracovish Fishious Rends going around. It's a tad bulkier on the Special side as well having great 90 / 100 / 90 bulk, a water immunity and a quad resistance to Ice. Being able to reset its own rain via Dynamax is useful as well. It gets great coverage (along with other options not mentioned on this set such as Rock Slide / Stone Edge for Max Rockfall. Obviously there are some shortfalls with Water / Ice defensive typing, but most of the time you're going to be nuking them anyways, and with Trick Room set up you'll be going first more often than Scarf Dracovish would go first in typical OU play.
Pincurchin
Stats:
HP: 48
Attack: 101
Defense: 98
Special Attack: 91
Special Defense: 85
Speed: 15
Attack: 101
Defense: 98
Special Attack: 91
Special Defense: 85
Speed: 15
Details:
Pincurchin @ Life Orb
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Zing Zap
- Liquidation
- Recover
- Sucker Punch / Throat Chop
This thing has an Electric Terrain boosted STAB Zing Zap with a 30% chance to flinch. That alone should be enough to make you want to use it under Trick Room. But alas, there's more! This thing got access to Liquidation for absolutely amazing coverage and a 20% chance to drop the opponent's defense (wonderful if it's on a rain team). To counteract its low HP it also has access to Recover, and it has access to both Sucker Punch and Throat Chop for additional coverage + Priority as well. Sucker Punch is good especially if Trick Room has run out, but if you're running Trick Room the base power of Throat Chop could be a better bet. This thing will pretty much always move first thanks to Trick Room and its abysmal speed.
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Zing Zap
- Liquidation
- Recover
- Sucker Punch / Throat Chop
This thing has an Electric Terrain boosted STAB Zing Zap with a 30% chance to flinch. That alone should be enough to make you want to use it under Trick Room. But alas, there's more! This thing got access to Liquidation for absolutely amazing coverage and a 20% chance to drop the opponent's defense (wonderful if it's on a rain team). To counteract its low HP it also has access to Recover, and it has access to both Sucker Punch and Throat Chop for additional coverage + Priority as well. Sucker Punch is good especially if Trick Room has run out, but if you're running Trick Room the base power of Throat Chop could be a better bet. This thing will pretty much always move first thanks to Trick Room and its abysmal speed.
Greedent
Stats:
HP: 120
Attack: 95
Defense: 95
Special Attack: 55
Special Defense: 75
Speed: 20
Attack: 95
Defense: 95
Special Attack: 55
Special Defense: 75
Speed: 20
Details:
Greedent @ Figy Berry
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Seed Bomb / Body Slam / Last Resort
Do I even need to mention why this set rules? Basically a bulkier Linoone under Trick Room at the cost of only 5 attack. While it doesn't have access to priority (would have made this thing even more nuts), it has an incredible movepool. Along with the options I listed (Crunch for Ghosts and Psychics, Earthquake for Rocks, Fires, and Steels, Seed Bomb for Water and Ground) it has the option of running moves like Psychic Fangs, Gyro Ball, Superpower, Wild Charge, etc. Seriously, dig into this thing's movepool it's nuts.
Ability: Gluttony
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Seed Bomb / Body Slam / Last Resort
Do I even need to mention why this set rules? Basically a bulkier Linoone under Trick Room at the cost of only 5 attack. While it doesn't have access to priority (would have made this thing even more nuts), it has an incredible movepool. Along with the options I listed (Crunch for Ghosts and Psychics, Earthquake for Rocks, Fires, and Steels, Seed Bomb for Water and Ground) it has the option of running moves like Psychic Fangs, Gyro Ball, Superpower, Wild Charge, etc. Seriously, dig into this thing's movepool it's nuts.
I'll make some more Trick Room related posts when I find Pokemon I've had a lot of success with. Until then, I hope you find these Pokemon to your liking!
I believe Finch has already stated that we should expect a suspect on Dynamaxing pretty soon(no idea if it has already happened), and also he stated the council would be either banning both Dynamaxing and G-Maxing, or neither. But with so many people clamoring for Dynamaxing's banishment just enjoy it while you can ig.
How are people finding Ferrothorn in this meta?
I think Body Press is a nice addition for potential moves, but is hard to justify over any of the tried and true big 3 ferro moves 'leech, hazard and whip'. It also faces real competition for a fourth move slot. The abundance of rain also helps, though you need something to deal with the three kings of OU rn. Darm, Gyara and Dracovish. I think it's in a solid spot and have even been using curse ferro on occasion.
Aside from that I'm really interested to see if Glalie can be utilized now that moody is unbanned. I also think people are sleeping on Runegrigus. With the abundant physical threats in the meta, an iron defense body press set is kind of nuts.
I think Body Press is a nice addition for potential moves, but is hard to justify over any of the tried and true big 3 ferro moves 'leech, hazard and whip'. It also faces real competition for a fourth move slot. The abundance of rain also helps, though you need something to deal with the three kings of OU rn. Darm, Gyara and Dracovish. I think it's in a solid spot and have even been using curse ferro on occasion.
Aside from that I'm really interested to see if Glalie can be utilized now that moody is unbanned. I also think people are sleeping on Runegrigus. With the abundant physical threats in the meta, an iron defense body press set is kind of nuts.
Congratulations my guy on becoming a dad. I won't respond to your comment too much myself, but I agree with postponing a decision on dynamaxing until a significant suspect period has been undertaken. Yung Dramps is right though, any further discussion of dynamaxing here is ultimately futile, so I would say that we should save further discussion on the mechanic as a whole for the suspect thread.
Ferro is very common rn. Even tho FerroPexGcor has died down FerroPex is still a good core and is used very commonly, Ferro especially. It can fit basically anything that's not HO or Sun and I'm only 90% sure about the HO one.
Mainly the big things limiting it is that lack of reliable recovery and lack of other hazard setters so it often can't heal via Leech Seed as much as it would like.
I think Ferro is still in a good spot.
Body Press seems difficult to put on it because there are so many moves that I feel would be higher in priority before it. Like you said a hazard Leech Seed and Power Whip seem to be the three I've personally liked. I think Protect is pretty nice right now with Dynamax running around. Knock Off is really good too since it can weaken quite a few Pokemon with the removal of their item, and there are no Z Crystals nor Mega Stones to protect Pokemon anymore. I think Gyro Ball is also fine since you can prevent Ferrothorn from being free setup on some Pokemon (Togekiss and Hydreigon being examples here with Substitute) or having Iron Head for Hatterne. I just think Body Press is really low in priority for Ferrothorn and doesn't really help it in a lot of matchups in the current SwSh meta.
Body Press seems difficult to put on it because there are so many moves that I feel would be higher in priority before it. Like you said a hazard Leech Seed and Power Whip seem to be the three I've personally liked. I think Protect is pretty nice right now with Dynamax running around. Knock Off is really good too since it can weaken quite a few Pokemon with the removal of their item, and there are no Z Crystals nor Mega Stones to protect Pokemon anymore. I think Gyro Ball is also fine since you can prevent Ferrothorn from being free setup on some Pokemon (Togekiss and Hydreigon being examples here with Substitute) or having Iron Head for Hatterne. I just think Body Press is really low in priority for Ferrothorn and doesn't really help it in a lot of matchups in the current SwSh meta.
frog_fucker
Banned deucer.
Basically copied this from my reddit thread on www.reddit.com/r/stunfisk , but thought i'd share here too:
What up squad, here with a bombass team to share. This team has given me a lot of success on the Pokemon Showdown and has gotten me out of the dreaded low ladder. Before I climb to the top of high ladder, I wanted to give my team a little bit of polish first. Here's the team:
Seismitoad (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Moonlight
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Protect
Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Thunder Punch
Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Discharge
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Transform
1. First up, let's talk about toad. This thing is a fucking beast. Unquestionably one of the best 'mons in the tier right now. Defensive Toad just eats fucking Pokemon for it's big frog breakfast. This thing can take hits from all the heavy hitters, set up rocks, and go about its merry frog business. It seems like such an underwhelming tank on paper, but it can just come in on so many Pokemon. Rotom, fossils, bulky waters, the mighty Mr. Toad just shrugs before them and hits em with a clean toxic. In addition, this thing is also a great lead. It shits on exca and TTar and just sets up rocks while spreading burn + poison.
2. Clef is a 'mon that kind of triggers me. It can be so good and yet so useless. Maybe I have a wack spread, but I feel like clef fails to break through a lot of Pokemon. Don't get me wrong, it does great damage and just sits on so many Pokemon like Toad and ferro, but it absolutely sucks momentum away from Pokemon it can't kill. Nevertheless, it's still pretty good. Can kill unboosted Gyra as well as destroy Ferro.
3. Ok, ok, you know I couldn't make a team without my boy big Thorn. Ferro is a fucking beast this gen. Everyone called it, everyone knew it, everyone is seeing it. This guy is an absolute monster. He sits on SO many fucking pokemon and just does his thing. Even better than 'Pex imho. Ngl, my set is a little wack, but I feel like phys def is essential in this meta. Rocky helmet is Ferro's best item rn, don't @ me. The extra damage is just crushing on switches to physical attackers. As far as moves go, the abundance of heavy hitters with dynamax make leech + protect a necessity. This thing eats dynamax for days. I swear to god, you can switch this guy in on any phys attacker and just watch it sit there. If Dracozolt is running choice and doesn't have dynamax, then your opponent is shit out of luck. In addition, Ferro can stall out dynamax turns using protect with ease. This allows Ditto to come in and reverse sweep. Anyways, I made sure to put whip on this thing since i kind of struggle against the mighty toad. I used to have gyro for fairies like Gard, but ever since she got mystical fire I feel like whip is better. I'm thinking about adding bullet seed for Mimmikyu, but I'm not sure.
4. Ok c'mon, you know I had to do it. This Pokemon is why Dynamax needs to be banned lol. Hawlucha is unquestionably THE best dynamaxer in the tier. Too slow? Max airstream. Too weak? Knuckle. Need to pop unburden? Just hit my young luchador with that max lightning. It beats so many 'mons in the tier and is unqeustionably broken. My strategy in most games is to just bait out the opponent's dynamax, stall with my ferro-toad-clef core, and then fucking pop off with lucha. Plus here's the kicker: opposing Ditto can't copy unburden. That's right, Hawlucha beats Ditto, one of THE defining 'mons in the tier rn. Being a good Mexicano, You know Hawlucha must pray before every fight. God has rewarded him because he is truly blessed in this meta.
5. Rotom-H is a solid poke. I've been toying around with specs, but I think this set works fine. Heavy duty boots are nice since my team kind of shrugs off hazards in general. Rotom threatens out a lot of Pokemon and provides momentum with volt. I've toyed with wisp over discharge, but I feel like it pairs well with nasty plot. I'd love to hear differing opinions. Anyways, NP allows Rotom to set up on a lot of 'mons that forces a switch to a wall. This let's me volt out and then attempt to either wall the threat or sweep. Solid 'Poke, but I'd be open to experimentation.
6. Well well well, who do we have here? That's right. Ditto is like your average high school prom queen. She sleeps with everyone and still gets good grades. You hate her 'cause she's so popular, but it's cause you know she gives such great handjobs behind the boys locker room. Ditto gives handjobs to EVERYONE in the tier. Someone sends in a sweeper? Ditto. Someone sends out a Dynamax boosted 'mon? Ditto. Sticky web lead? Ditto. I swear to god, in this crazy meta Ditto is an answer to everything. In addition to being undoubtedly the best revenge killer in the game, Ditto can pull off crazy revers sweeps. If an opponent is not prepared, ditto can destroy entire teams with ease. One needs to be careful with opposing ditto's, but it's generally pretty easy to send him in and let him do his thing.
Welp, that's the team. Thanks for reading and if you have any suggestions I'd love to hear em. Shout out to my boy Mr. Toad: great Pokemon and solid Disney Land ride.
What up squad, here with a bombass team to share. This team has given me a lot of success on the Pokemon Showdown and has gotten me out of the dreaded low ladder. Before I climb to the top of high ladder, I wanted to give my team a little bit of polish first. Here's the team:
Seismitoad (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Toxic
Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunderbolt
- Fire Blast
- Moonlight
Ferrothorn @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Protect
Hawlucha @ Electric Seed
Ability: Unburden
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Acrobatics
- Thunder Punch
Rotom-Heat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Overheat
- Volt Switch
- Discharge
Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 0 Spe
- Transform
1. First up, let's talk about toad. This thing is a fucking beast. Unquestionably one of the best 'mons in the tier right now. Defensive Toad just eats fucking Pokemon for it's big frog breakfast. This thing can take hits from all the heavy hitters, set up rocks, and go about its merry frog business. It seems like such an underwhelming tank on paper, but it can just come in on so many Pokemon. Rotom, fossils, bulky waters, the mighty Mr. Toad just shrugs before them and hits em with a clean toxic. In addition, this thing is also a great lead. It shits on exca and TTar and just sets up rocks while spreading burn + poison.
2. Clef is a 'mon that kind of triggers me. It can be so good and yet so useless. Maybe I have a wack spread, but I feel like clef fails to break through a lot of Pokemon. Don't get me wrong, it does great damage and just sits on so many Pokemon like Toad and ferro, but it absolutely sucks momentum away from Pokemon it can't kill. Nevertheless, it's still pretty good. Can kill unboosted Gyra as well as destroy Ferro.
3. Ok, ok, you know I couldn't make a team without my boy big Thorn. Ferro is a fucking beast this gen. Everyone called it, everyone knew it, everyone is seeing it. This guy is an absolute monster. He sits on SO many fucking pokemon and just does his thing. Even better than 'Pex imho. Ngl, my set is a little wack, but I feel like phys def is essential in this meta. Rocky helmet is Ferro's best item rn, don't @ me. The extra damage is just crushing on switches to physical attackers. As far as moves go, the abundance of heavy hitters with dynamax make leech + protect a necessity. This thing eats dynamax for days. I swear to god, you can switch this guy in on any phys attacker and just watch it sit there. If Dracozolt is running choice and doesn't have dynamax, then your opponent is shit out of luck. In addition, Ferro can stall out dynamax turns using protect with ease. This allows Ditto to come in and reverse sweep. Anyways, I made sure to put whip on this thing since i kind of struggle against the mighty toad. I used to have gyro for fairies like Gard, but ever since she got mystical fire I feel like whip is better. I'm thinking about adding bullet seed for Mimmikyu, but I'm not sure.
4. Ok c'mon, you know I had to do it. This Pokemon is why Dynamax needs to be banned lol. Hawlucha is unquestionably THE best dynamaxer in the tier. Too slow? Max airstream. Too weak? Knuckle. Need to pop unburden? Just hit my young luchador with that max lightning. It beats so many 'mons in the tier and is unqeustionably broken. My strategy in most games is to just bait out the opponent's dynamax, stall with my ferro-toad-clef core, and then fucking pop off with lucha. Plus here's the kicker: opposing Ditto can't copy unburden. That's right, Hawlucha beats Ditto, one of THE defining 'mons in the tier rn. Being a good Mexicano, You know Hawlucha must pray before every fight. God has rewarded him because he is truly blessed in this meta.
5. Rotom-H is a solid poke. I've been toying around with specs, but I think this set works fine. Heavy duty boots are nice since my team kind of shrugs off hazards in general. Rotom threatens out a lot of Pokemon and provides momentum with volt. I've toyed with wisp over discharge, but I feel like it pairs well with nasty plot. I'd love to hear differing opinions. Anyways, NP allows Rotom to set up on a lot of 'mons that forces a switch to a wall. This let's me volt out and then attempt to either wall the threat or sweep. Solid 'Poke, but I'd be open to experimentation.
6. Well well well, who do we have here? That's right. Ditto is like your average high school prom queen. She sleeps with everyone and still gets good grades. You hate her 'cause she's so popular, but it's cause you know she gives such great handjobs behind the boys locker room. Ditto gives handjobs to EVERYONE in the tier. Someone sends in a sweeper? Ditto. Someone sends out a Dynamax boosted 'mon? Ditto. Sticky web lead? Ditto. I swear to god, in this crazy meta Ditto is an answer to everything. In addition to being undoubtedly the best revenge killer in the game, Ditto can pull off crazy revers sweeps. If an opponent is not prepared, ditto can destroy entire teams with ease. One needs to be careful with opposing ditto's, but it's generally pretty easy to send him in and let him do his thing.
Welp, that's the team. Thanks for reading and if you have any suggestions I'd love to hear em. Shout out to my boy Mr. Toad: great Pokemon and solid Disney Land ride.
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Avalugg
Stats:
HP: 95
Attack: 117
Defense: 184
Special Attack: 44
Special Defense: 46
Speed: 28
Stats:
HP: 95
Attack: 117
Defense: 184
Special Attack: 44
Special Defense: 46
Speed: 28
Okay, I know you've all been accepting of some of my more outlandish underutilized sets in this thread, but y'all really need to hear me out for this one. I promise you it's absolute gold and I've gotten some absolutely hilarious results with it.
Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Body Press coming off Avalugg's absurd 184 defense stat (which is 405 with only the 4 def investment and a neutral nature, absolutely bonkers). Iron Defense acts as a Swords Dance while making you untouchable on the Physical side. Recover to regain HP and Rapid Spin to boost your garbage speed while clearing hazards. Obviously this gets walled by Ghost types, but my god is it fun to nuke things.
You could also use max HP and max Defense EVs with an Impish nature instead, but I've found that the Special Bulk EVs can really help me in a pinch. But if you want even more monstrous power, go for it.
Don't even get me started on Body Press Onix or Steelix. Jesus.
Edit: chimp put some great calcs in the post below this one because I was too dumb to figure out the damage calculator, go take a look at them. Even with 4 attack EVs it shows some insane power!
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The damage calculator lets you adjust base stats if you want too. So, you can just manually change the Attack stat to match whatever Avalugg's Defense stat is. It'll give you the same result.Avalugg
Stats:
HP: 95
Attack: 117
Defense: 184
Special Attack: 44
Special Defense: 46
Speed: 28
Okay, I know you've all been accepting of some of my more outlandish underutilized sets in this thread, but y'all really need to hear me out for this one. I promise you it's absolute gold and I've gotten some absolutely hilarious results with it.
Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Body Press coming off Avalugg's absurd 184 defense stat (which is 405 with only the 4 def investment and a neutral nature, absolutely bonkers). Iron Defense acts as a Swords Dance while making you untouchable on the Physical side. Recover to regain HP and Rapid Spin to boost your garbage speed while clearing hazards. Obviously this gets walled by Ghost types, but my god is it fun to nuke things.
The damage calculator is broken so I can't do Body Press calcs (they keep using Avalugg's attack stat instead of its Defense stat), but boy oh boy can I tell you it hits like a truck. Go have fun with this, please. I want you all to feel the joy that I feel.
To avoid a one-liner, here are some calcs:
4 Atk Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 158-186 (44.8 - 52.8%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO
4 Atk Avalugg Body Press vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Seismitoad: 94-111 (26.7 - 31.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 Atk Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Corviknight: 95-112 (23.7 - 28%) -- 6.2% chance to 4HKO after Figy Berry recovery
4 Atk Avalugg Body Press vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 298-352 (82.3 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Avalugg Body Press vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 364-432 (106.4 - 126.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Certainly not bad for a mostly defensive Pokemon.
Decided to play around with Moody for a bit to see if it's broken. Ultimately, it's a very hard strategy to pull off against well-built teams, as Glalie needs many free turns to be able to set up properly. That being said...
Glalie @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe (spread can probably be optimized)
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Disable
- Freeze-Dry
I can't see this thing being healthy for the meta in the long run. With Disable, it can completely set up in front of any defensive mon that has only one attacking move. Stall teams are going to have to run multiple phazers to be safe against this thing. Even Haze Toxapex isn't a consistent counter, if Haze is disabled and the Glalie user gets the right boost:
+2 4 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 186-222 (61.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (note that Scald won't break Glalie's subs unless Sp. Def drops)
As for right now, dynamaxing sweepers mean that Glalie is the least of defensive teams' worries, hence why it is not very effective right now. But in the futureif when dynamax is banned, this will be something to look out for. Hey, at least it's good for annoying people with a last mon sweep: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8ou-1020342038
P.S. Dynamax Hawlucha is the most broken thing I've ever used in OU and I love it
Glalie @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe (spread can probably be optimized)
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Disable
- Freeze-Dry
I can't see this thing being healthy for the meta in the long run. With Disable, it can completely set up in front of any defensive mon that has only one attacking move. Stall teams are going to have to run multiple phazers to be safe against this thing. Even Haze Toxapex isn't a consistent counter, if Haze is disabled and the Glalie user gets the right boost:
+2 4 SpA Glalie Freeze-Dry vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Toxapex: 186-222 (61.1 - 73%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery (note that Scald won't break Glalie's subs unless Sp. Def drops)
As for right now, dynamaxing sweepers mean that Glalie is the least of defensive teams' worries, hence why it is not very effective right now. But in the future
P.S. Dynamax Hawlucha is the most broken thing I've ever used in OU and I love it
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There is absolutely no reason at all to even try to patch up it's horrendous spdef imho.Avalugg
Stats:
HP: 95
Attack: 117
Defense: 184
Special Attack: 44
Special Defense: 46
Speed: 28
Okay, I know you've all been accepting of some of my more outlandish underutilized sets in this thread, but y'all really need to hear me out for this one. I promise you it's absolute gold and I've gotten some absolutely hilarious results with it.
Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Body Press coming off Avalugg's absurd 184 defense stat (which is 405 with only the 4 def investment and a neutral nature, absolutely bonkers). Iron Defense acts as a Swords Dance while making you untouchable on the Physical side. Recover to regain HP and Rapid Spin to boost your garbage speed while clearing hazards. Obviously this gets walled by Ghost types, but my god is it fun to nuke things.
You could also use max HP and max Defense EVs with an Impish nature instead, but I've found that the Special Bulk EVs can really help me in a pinch. But if you want even more monstrous power, go for it.
Don't even get me started on Body Press Onix or Steelix. Jesus.
Edit: chimp put some great calcs in the post below this one because I was too dumb to figure out the damage calculator, go take a look at them. Even with 4 attack EVs it shows some insane power!
You'd be better off doing this:
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 296-350 (84 - 99.4%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 215-254 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 161-190 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Unfort GCor just sits on you, and results definitely not as satisfatory as expected, but decent for a non-STAB.
Honestly just don't use this, so much better BP users and spinners.
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Seismitoad: 215-254 (51.9 - 61.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Def Avalugg Body Press vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 161-190 (40.8 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Unfort GCor just sits on you, and results definitely not as satisfatory as expected, but decent for a non-STAB.
Honestly just don't use this, so much better BP users and spinners.
tbh avalugg has no place in the current meta, even with all the physical attackers running around, it's still not worth it imo bc the most common mons out there (gyara, lucha, etc) arent gonna take anything from avalugg without avalancheAvalugg
Stats:
HP: 95
Attack: 117
Defense: 184
Special Attack: 44
Special Defense: 46
Speed: 28
Okay, I know you've all been accepting of some of my more outlandish underutilized sets in this thread, but y'all really need to hear me out for this one. I promise you it's absolute gold and I've gotten some absolutely hilarious results with it.
Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Iron Defense
- Body Press
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Body Press coming off Avalugg's absurd 184 defense stat (which is 405 with only the 4 def investment and a neutral nature, absolutely bonkers). Iron Defense acts as a Swords Dance while making you untouchable on the Physical side. Recover to regain HP and Rapid Spin to boost your garbage speed while clearing hazards. Obviously this gets walled by Ghost types, but my god is it fun to nuke things.
You could also use max HP and max Defense EVs with an Impish nature instead, but I've found that the Special Bulk EVs can really help me in a pinch. But if you want even more monstrous power, go for it.
Don't even get me started on Body Press Onix or Steelix. Jesus.
Edit: chimp put some great calcs in the post below this one because I was too dumb to figure out the damage calculator, go take a look at them. Even with 4 attack EVs it shows some insane power!
Regardless of anything with that set, there are several major flaws with it.
1) Sturdy is currently unavailable for Avalugg. Not that it matters too much in this set, but it's worth pointing out.
2) Sorry I need to make a correction - for some baffling reason I said Body Press won't affect Dynamaxing Pokemon. This is my mistake and I'm sure I'm being mocked in another room. Regardless of this, Special Attackers that resist Body Press like Togekiss, Life Orb Clefable, and of course immune like Gengar switch into this set without much trouble and threaten Avalugg out.
3) Toxapex can simply Haze away the boosts or poison with Baneful Bunker and swap with something like Galarian Corsola.
4) As you mentioned Ghost-types really screw this set up. It's hilarious how Dragapult suddenly becomes a counter to an Ice-type, but here we are.
If I'm using Avalugg I'm using it as a Spinner with Heavy-Duty Boots. Sucks that Sturdy isn't available, but it do be like that sometime.
1) Sturdy is currently unavailable for Avalugg. Not that it matters too much in this set, but it's worth pointing out.
2) Sorry I need to make a correction - for some baffling reason I said Body Press won't affect Dynamaxing Pokemon. This is my mistake and I'm sure I'm being mocked in another room. Regardless of this, Special Attackers that resist Body Press like Togekiss, Life Orb Clefable, and of course immune like Gengar switch into this set without much trouble and threaten Avalugg out.
3) Toxapex can simply Haze away the boosts or poison with Baneful Bunker and swap with something like Galarian Corsola.
4) As you mentioned Ghost-types really screw this set up. It's hilarious how Dragapult suddenly becomes a counter to an Ice-type, but here we are.
If I'm using Avalugg I'm using it as a Spinner with Heavy-Duty Boots. Sucks that Sturdy isn't available, but it do be like that sometime.
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Alright since y'all hurt my feelings with all the facts and logic about my glacier boi being destroyed by the meta right now, I'd like to bring up a Pokemon that functions a fair bit differently. I've had quite a bit of success with the meta right now. Falinks. Also his nickname is nipple worm and no-one can take that joy away from me. This guy is another underlooked threat and has the right tools to succeed.
Falinks @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- No Retreat
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
- Rock Slide
No Retreat is a move unique to Falinks that boosts all of its stats by 1 at the cost of making it unable to switch out. Thanks to its great coverage, solid stats and great ability in Defiant which makes opposing Intimidates and Parting Shots a blessing instead of a curse, this thing can get both bulky, strong, and fast QUICK. It functions perfectly as a late game cleaner. STAB Close Combat is going to nuke just about everything that doesn't resist it. Throat Chop means that the myriad of Ghosts running around can't just switch in, and Rock Slide is for additional coverage against specific threats like Gyarados (although it has other options like Megahorn and Zen Headbutt as well).
It's definitely a Pokemon that should be looked into more.
Falinks
Type: Fighting
Abilities: Battle Armor / Defiant
Stats:
HP: 65
Attack: 100
Defense: 100
Special Attack: 70
Special Defense: 60
Speed: 75
Type: Fighting
Abilities: Battle Armor / Defiant
Stats:
HP: 65
Attack: 100
Defense: 100
Special Attack: 70
Special Defense: 60
Speed: 75
Falinks @ Leftovers
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- No Retreat
- Close Combat
- Throat Chop
- Rock Slide
No Retreat is a move unique to Falinks that boosts all of its stats by 1 at the cost of making it unable to switch out. Thanks to its great coverage, solid stats and great ability in Defiant which makes opposing Intimidates and Parting Shots a blessing instead of a curse, this thing can get both bulky, strong, and fast QUICK. It functions perfectly as a late game cleaner. STAB Close Combat is going to nuke just about everything that doesn't resist it. Throat Chop means that the myriad of Ghosts running around can't just switch in, and Rock Slide is for additional coverage against specific threats like Gyarados (although it has other options like Megahorn and Zen Headbutt as well).
It's definitely a Pokemon that should be looked into more.
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I think Avalugg's best option is serving as a fat spinner and not concerning itself with any serious damage output. Physdef is better for now since Gyara and Darm are running around. Body Press is still a good option in the last moveslot, it hits a lot of the tier for huge damage in tandem with Avalanche and leaves it less passive against most steels, bar Aegislash, which it needs EQ for.
Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Own Tempo / Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Avalanche
- Body Press
This set can switch into any of Darm's moves besides a banded Flare Blitz (94.1% chance to 2HKO). It also beats Scarf Dracovish without any trouble, but if Vish is banded and/or if rain is up then it will be easily 2HKOd if not OHKOd.
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Rain: 367-433 (93.1 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO seriously what the fuck
Own Tempo is realistically the best ability until we get Sturdy, as no confusion or Intimidate is nice. However, Ice Body gives you lefties recovery if you dynamax and use Max Hailstorm.
The actual heat set:
Personally I doubt Falinks is going to be good enough to have a niche in OU since its stats are so mediocre but I'd be happy to be proven wrong, it's a cool mon. No Retreat + Dynamax is a menacing combo.
Avalugg @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Own Tempo / Ice Body
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Recover
- Avalanche
- Body Press
This set can switch into any of Darm's moves besides a banded Flare Blitz (94.1% chance to 2HKO). It also beats Scarf Dracovish without any trouble, but if Vish is banded and/or if rain is up then it will be easily 2HKOd if not OHKOd.
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg in Rain: 367-433 (93.1 - 109.8%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO seriously what the fuck
Own Tempo is realistically the best ability until we get Sturdy, as no confusion or Intimidate is nice. However, Ice Body gives you lefties recovery if you dynamax and use Max Hailstorm.
The actual heat set:
Avalugg @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Recover
- Earthquake / Avalanche
- Body Press
Avalanche is still good but tbh fuck STAB moves when Body Press OHKOs any non-resist. EQ is for ghosts and other fat resists. Corsola-G is a bitch though.
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Iron Defense
- Recover
- Earthquake / Avalanche
- Body Press
Avalanche is still good but tbh fuck STAB moves when Body Press OHKOs any non-resist. EQ is for ghosts and other fat resists. Corsola-G is a bitch though.
Personally I doubt Falinks is going to be good enough to have a niche in OU since its stats are so mediocre but I'd be happy to be proven wrong, it's a cool mon. No Retreat + Dynamax is a menacing combo.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/falinks-0-1.3656870/
I feel the analysis has the superior move options other than it not being able to touch Ghosts. I would only use Throat Chop if I was pairing this mon with Dugtrio to trap Toxapex.
ima have to agree with colonel m on this one dog but falinks has a pretty meh movepool (basically the only moves u can use on this thing is no retreat/cc/firstimpression/ironhead/megahorn/poisonjab/rockslide/throatchop/zenheadbutt which is alright but it pretty much gets walled by pex, which i havent seen much falinks and none have ran zen headbutt. also physdef corviknight 1v1s this thing too. it cant hit ghosts for shit especially with the majority of the corsola being physdef too. there's better fighting types out there. i also feel like this thing is gonna struggle in lower tiers a bit because what i think is with its bad movepool there's always gonna be something thats gonna wall it. the only niche falinks has is dynamax but in all honesty its just not good enough to thrive in OU
PsyducksChili
Banned deucer.
D Y N A M A X = G A R B A G E
D E L E T E I T N O W !
Look, dynamax is fun and all, but
I T ‘ S O P
Here‘s why, fuck y’all
What are some busted fucking DMax mons?
Let’s analyze these broken ass Pokeemons, shall we?
Max airstream is a HUGE reason. Moxie + airstream let it come in on shit with low health, like Ferrothorn, and grab a +1 attack boost and a 1+ speed boost, pretty much a free DD. But the broken part is, it doesn’t haAVEEE to DD. A free DD for a KO, on an already top-tier threat sounds pretty not epic.
Another big reason is max geyser. Max geyser lets it get free rain, which is not epic, either.
The max moves push this gay fish over the edge.
This is primarily on HO. SD. DMax. Knuckle. Whatever the flying type one is. Win. Enough said tbh.
This dumb bitch has the AUDACITY to come and steal your mon, revenge it, then reverse sweep you with dmax. Let it come in on your Gyara and you’re fucked. It’ll scarf bounce you and then dmax to beat your TTar, or whatever hoping to counter it. I’ve heard people say Ditto is “broken” (nottrue), and that is likely due to dmax making it reverse sweep your whole ass team
This shit is the ideal sweeper. Nasty plot, hax, fight coverage, whats not to love? It’s speed tier. It’s speed tier is absolute garbage. But with max airstream, it fixes its speed problems and gets a boost to finish it’s sweep without being revenged by shit like Excadrill, Hydrei, etc.
Bring in TTar, max geyser, bring in Torkoal (idk), max rockfall, whatever weather changer you have loses to this.
idk if this is the right place to post this, but moody is pretty broken, even with the removal of evasion boosts. I'm a really really bad player and i just reached top 10 spamming moody glalie:
Glalie @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 80 HP / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Disable
- Freeze-Dry
It takes no skill, serves as a ticking time bomb from turn 1 it's in, invalidates good teambuilding because it's independent of the other 5 mons, and is literally randomness incarnate. And for a mechanic that as i said is completely dependent on randomness, it doesn't even matter most of the time because you gain a net positive of +1 boost every turn and can just stall it out to victory, because moody puts your opponent on a timer and forces them to be the ones actively trying to stop your snowballing snowball. And as long as you don't play like the offspring of an ape that drank during pregnancy, you're almost guaranteed to set up with it every game. There are very few pokemon in the game that can even wall you because you can just sit behind your sub, disable their move that breaks your sub, spam protect every other turn, and just play the waiting game because again, your opponent is the one on the timer, not you. I assume the octopus thing is broken with moody too, I just haven't bothered to play it yet. Jesus was black, ronald reagan was the devil. thank you for your time and good night.
Glalie @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
EVs: 80 HP / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Disable
- Freeze-Dry
It takes no skill, serves as a ticking time bomb from turn 1 it's in, invalidates good teambuilding because it's independent of the other 5 mons, and is literally randomness incarnate. And for a mechanic that as i said is completely dependent on randomness, it doesn't even matter most of the time because you gain a net positive of +1 boost every turn and can just stall it out to victory, because moody puts your opponent on a timer and forces them to be the ones actively trying to stop your snowballing snowball. And as long as you don't play like the offspring of an ape that drank during pregnancy, you're almost guaranteed to set up with it every game. There are very few pokemon in the game that can even wall you because you can just sit behind your sub, disable their move that breaks your sub, spam protect every other turn, and just play the waiting game because again, your opponent is the one on the timer, not you. I assume the octopus thing is broken with moody too, I just haven't bothered to play it yet. Jesus was black, ronald reagan was the devil. thank you for your time and good night.
Anyone tried out defensive Kommo-o?
Defense is actually its highest stat, so STAB Body Press from max defense Kommo-o actually hits significantly harder than an Aura Sphere from special Kommo-o or Dragon Claw from a physical set.
Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Abilty: whatever
EVs 252 HP / 252 Defense / whatever
Impish nature
-Body Press
-Dragon Tail
-Stealth rock
-Toxic
Hit hard, phase, setup hazards, spread status and switch into this:
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kommo-o in Rain: 123-144 (34.7 - 40.6%) -- 55.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Body Press will 2HKO fish after rocks. Just pray they didn't click Outrage.
Defense is actually its highest stat, so STAB Body Press from max defense Kommo-o actually hits significantly harder than an Aura Sphere from special Kommo-o or Dragon Claw from a physical set.
Kommo-o @ Leftovers
Abilty: whatever
EVs 252 HP / 252 Defense / whatever
Impish nature
-Body Press
-Dragon Tail
-Stealth rock
-Toxic
Hit hard, phase, setup hazards, spread status and switch into this:
252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kommo-o in Rain: 123-144 (34.7 - 40.6%) -- 55.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Body Press will 2HKO fish after rocks. Just pray they didn't click Outrage.
Defensive kommo is great! It's actually one of the few things with a chance to eat 2 CB fishious rends from Dracovish(gotta watch out for psychic fangs/outrage), and it's a pretty solid aegislash check. Super annoying for some rain teams too, and body press hits extremely hard. Bulletproof in general is super nice to pivot into random shadow ball since ghost types are so predominant right now.. I actually expect it to be quite common once the metagame chills out from all the offense a bit, you could even experiment soundproof as a complete stop for toxtricity and offensive clanging scales Kommo-O(unless they dynamax). I like running flamethrower+relaxed nature or EQ though so you don't miss out on checking aegi(over dragon tail).
I agree with everything, I've been trying for 3 days to create an anti-meta team and I'm pretty close to it while also taking some ideas from your posts ;)
I was just a little salty and felt I was wasting my time playing because I usually have a lot of fun while facing stall is everything but fun, btw I know exactly how to beat it, I just don't want to keep switching and playing the long game every single time.. thank god with dynamax I mess up their switch ins and percentages of damage or else I'd hate the game.
I have an OP Gengar set that I haven't seen anyone use that's doing really fine, hope to present it to you if I can get back up to 1700.
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