Format Discussion Pokemon Sword & Shield Random Battle Sets

[Merritt]

Since Sparkling Aria was mentioned and I got a Lapras with it, any Pokemon that has access to Surf should not have Sparkling Aria in their move options. Sparkling Aria, "cool signature move" aside, is pretty strictly inferior in singles as it has less PP and can cure enemy burns, something far more likely to screw you over than help.

 

[breh]

Does anybody actually like aura sphere on blastoise? It helps beat ferro but I feel like earthquake would be a better option so that it's not as awful against any specially bulky pokemon. It's a cool max move, too, as it actually has a useful effect and its damage isn't reduced either.

@above: sparkling aria is a sound move that hits through sub; there is a certain value to this and there is also a certain shittiness to losing your strongest STAB to throat choppers, especially bisharp

 

[breh]

Alolan Persian can get Technician; coincidentally, it cannot get moves that are boosted by Technician

If has no moves boosted by technician, reject technician

 

[DAHLI]

I don't know if this has been adressed (and feel free to delete my post if it was) but can we somehow nerf Zacian-C and Eternatus? Maybe removing Swords Dance from Zacian's set and making Eternatus 2 attacks instead of 3, I remember that I saw Toxic/Flamethrower/Cannon/Recover but only once (idk if that set got deleted or something) every other ocassion its the 3 sets attack + recover which I think it's too good. Those 2 mons (and maybe Mewtwo too) have more than decent coverage and in the case of Mewtwo and Eternatus a pretty good bulk + a recover move, seems a bit overpowered to me

 

[DracoRage]

Having a chance to get No Guard Choice Band Machamp without Dynamic Punch is shitty - Conkeldurr and Obstagoon are much better Guts abusers, Machamp most unique set is No Guard Dynamic Punch. I feel like making it Conkeldurr 2.0 is a disservice to the mon, not to mention the chance of what I mentioned happening.

No Thunder Wave in Grimmsnarl is an absolute waste. Prankster mons really need a way to speed control or otherwise screw with the opponent, and Grimmsnarl was one of the best in randoms format. The new Mew set is incredibly inferior to the previous set with Megahorn. Brave Bird hits fighting, grass and bug mons super-effectively, out of those, fighting is already hit super-effectively by Psychic Fangs, and Grass is hit super-effectively by Megahorn, which also has the huge benefit of hitting psychic-types that resist Fangs, much much harder than Crunch does - it also makes Mew significantly easier to wear out, the chance to rise speed with Max Airstream simply isn't worth it.

The fact that Sandaconda still has Body Press to this day annoys me. Multiple people have pointed out that Body Press + Earthquake is shitty coverage - Stone Edge, hell, Rock Tomb stand as more powerful and versatile coverage options.

 

[breh]

Is there any reason Grapploct doesn't get Octolock right now? It could actually be pretty ok with Drain Punch / Protect / Octolock / filler, and certainly more unique with those moves than it currently is ("bad throh with sucker punch")

@above

-Conkeldurr doesn't have the freedom to spam a 120 BP guts boosted STAB move. Obstagoon is significantly speedier but even its Facade, which seems crazy strong, is out damaged by Guts CC.

-Agree on twave for grimmsnarl (as mentioned in my previous post) since killing random sweeps is really, really valuable.

-BB is for max airstream. Every pokemon wants to have 1 million moves and mew is the best example of that; sacrificing megahorn for coverage on fat psychic pokemon for max airstream is (imo) a good trade.

-Kind of agree about body press sanda being kind of shit but on the edge

 

[xerovis]

I feel like Delibird needs a buff, he can barely get 1 spikes out without getting rekt even by a neutral move. Same with regular farfetch'd can't even get a SD or roost off, not fast enough to do much either lol. Also getting both of these on the same team is total RIP

Regarding Type: Null, I don't think it's overpowered because rest/sd/crush/sleep is walled by any ghost, and rest/sd/payback/crush has much more limited effectivity in exchange for the coverage. Being able to deal with Type:Null Easily is a dice roll sure, but that seems like the nature of randbats. Sometimes you get a team that has some monotype team level weaknesses and you still have to play around it. I think Type: Null is good where it is.

Obviously things like 1 person getting no ubers and even an nfe or less useful mons, and the other getting 2 ubers 1 of which is zacian will become better once they have the tiering in place.

 

[DracoRage]

Delibird at least has enough speed to get off 1 single spikes, rapid spin, freeze dry or memento, making it a nice suicide mon.

Farfetch'd definitely needs to be level 88-90 in order to do anything at all.

 

[Mega-Pokebattlerz]

Got an AV Duraludon with Flash Cannon/Draco Meteor/Thunderbolt/Body Press.

Why is this a thing? Its SpD is crap even with AV, and its offensive movepool isn't even that good. I'd much rather have Lefties or even Specs.

 

[Consignia]

Life Orb Gorilla Tactics G-Darmanitan

Hide

 

[breh]

didn't notice TI made rands changes so late but summary in case anybody wants it:

move changes

Blastoise loses Aura Sphere, gains Earthquake
Cloyster loses Liquidation, gains Hydro Pump
Octillery loses Liquidation, gains Surf
Shiftry loses Leaf Blade, Swords Dance, and Throat Chop, gains Dark Pulse, Nasty Plot, and Heat Wave
Conkeldurr loses Stone Edge, gains Ice Punch and Earthquake (tbh EQ is kind of shit on conk but very glad to see stone edge gone, wish it had payback over eq)
Hawlucha gains Throat Chop
Shiinotic loses Giga Drain and Substitute, gains Energy Ball (imo Giga Drain > eball but w/e)
Arctozolt loses Bulldoze, gains Body Slam (this still can't get choice items REE)

other changes

Strength Sap is added to the list of recovery moves. I'm sure there are fine effects to this, but one relatively big one is that lead Strength Sappers can't get Focus Sash now (especially relevant for Vileplume).
Additionally, Strength Sap is now rejected on Bellossom until it gets Quiver Dance.
Facade is rejected if the Pokemon has Ice Punch or Bulk Up and is Fighting type (so Conk doesn't mix abilities, although guts ice punch is still fine imo... also, every time you see burn orb proc, you know instantly that its set is Facade / Drain Punch / Mach Punch / Earthquake and know instantly that it is hard walled by ghosts like the previous conk sets were most of the time)
Fire Punch is now rejected when the Pokemon has Curse (used to be if it was in its movepool, now just rejected outright... so it's harder to get Curse Snorlax with Fire Punch)
Giga Drain can now be rejected on Pokemon with Leaf Storm regardless of whether or not they have setup moves (this is literally only Celebi)
Stone Edge rejection conditions are edited a bit to make less mixed Guts / No Guard Machamp sets
Pokemon with Chlorophyll no longer require Sunny Day to get the ability, but do require a setup move (I think this is for Shiftry, I guess this always got Early Bird and I just never noticed. Early Bird is also kind of uniquely bad on it since the only way it can fall asleep is 2 Hypnosis users (orbeetle / persian-a) and yawn users (eeveelutions, hippo, and meowstic))
Mold Breaker is now rejected if the Pokemon has Unburden and has no setup moves (only for Hawlucha, I wish sets without SD just didn't exist lol)
Technician is no longer rejected when the Pokemon has setup moves or Stealth Rock, but is now rejected if the Pokemon has no Technician moves or has Tail Slap (I have no clue what the original reject conditions were for but Technician persian-a is gone now lol)

 

[Zaide]

Just noticed that, but why is base Corsola level 80 ?

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Just noticed that, but why is base Corsola level 80 ?

It's unreleased

 

[tennisace]

- I don't think LO Iron Fist Conk should be a set. It's super disappointing because it's straight up a worse version of Guts, and doesn't reflect how it is used in OU, where it's a top threat because of Guts alone.

- Throh should be treated as a mini Conk, with Guts + Flame Orb. The difference is Storm Throw / Circle Throw allow it to either ignore defensive boosts or phaze them out.

- Bisharp without Sucker Punch is super underwhelming, that + Iron Head should be the starting point of any set with SD / Sub / Throat Chop / Low Kick also being options.

- Sheer Force Braviary is not a good set since its best moves (Brave Bird / Close Combat) don't get boosted. Defiant @ Leftovers/Life Orb with Brave Bird / Close Combat / Roost / [U-Turn, Crush Claw, Rock Slide] is better.

 

[ascriptmaster]

- Sheer Force Braviary is not a good set since its best moves (Brave Bird / Close Combat) don't get boosted. Defiant @ Leftovers/Life Orb with Brave Bird / Close Combat / Roost / [U-Turn, Crush Claw, Rock Slide] is better.

What use does Rock Slide actually give if not boosted by Sheer Force, anyways? The only things that come to mind that it covers better than BB/CC are what, Thundurus? Heat Rotom?? Likewise, Crush Claw just feels mediocre if not paired with Sheer Force, and if you really wanted Normal coverage for some reason on a Defiant set I feel like Facade or Retaliate would be much better.

I see no problem with having Sheer Force on it because the extra damage on that coverage move can help in the niche situations where they're needed, and you won't always face an Intimidate mon, but if we're going all in on a Defiant set I'd say its moves should be changed to remove all Sheer Force-compatible moves as the best way to actually handle the situation.

 

[DracoRage]

Facing it multiple times, as well as getting it a few times in ladder, it's becoming clear to me that level 90 Galarian Mr Mime is broken AF. It has the same BST as normal Mr Mime BUT also the ability to use eviolite, making it unreasonably bulky AND speedy. 231 standard speed is crazy, it outspeeds pretty much everything except choice scarfers, Ninjask, Jolteon, Dragapult and box legendaries. Unlike normal Mr Mime, that is actually frail so using Nasty Plot isn't an autowin button.

Type Null and Galarian Mr Mime should be level balanced to be a much lower level, as having eviolite and such a huge level in comparison with the rest of the mons in random battles meta makes them extremely hard to break through.

 

[Zaide]

Facing it multiple times, as well as getting it a few times in ladder, it's becoming clear to me that level 90 Galarian Mr Mime is broken AF. It has the same BST as normal Mr Mime BUT also the ability to use eviolite, making it unreasonably bulky AND speedy. 231 standard speed is crazy, it outspeeds pretty much everything except choice scarfers, Ninjask, Jolteon, Dragapult and box legendaries. Unlike normal Mr Mime, that is actually frail so using Nasty Plot isn't an autowin button.

Type Null and Galarian Mr Mime should be level balanced to be a much lower level, as having eviolite and such a huge level in comparison with the rest of the mons in random battles meta makes them extremely hard to break through.

I've complained about Type:Null enough before, and I'd agree to an extent with Galarian Mr. Mime.

I get using tiers as a basis for levelling, but that's not enough for balance. There should be considerations regarding certain sets, moves or pokémon with high BST and good stats spread but which are not used in higher tiers due to matchups. I know it's kind of annoying to do manual adjustments, but I feel like the problematic Pokémon will usually be mentioned here a couple times. Maybe there's a way to know the % of wins a Pokémon gets at high ELO to identify problematic ones too (i.e. if players that draw Pokémon A win >75% of the time in ELO1700+, there might be an issue).

Personally, from the top of my head, I'd have Type:Null at level 84 (high BST + uniform spread which means ridiculous bulk with evio + SD + recovery), Galarian Mr Mime at level 86 (decent BST, high speed and nasty plot), Barbaracle and Polteageist at level 82 (Shell Smash with >150 speed and high base attack/special attack), and Zacian at level 73 (or maybe even 71).

 

[breh]

Intimidate should reject lead sash (ideally, in every gen)

 

[DracoRage]

Well at least now they decreased Galarian Mr Mime level to 88

 

[breh]

Leech Seed should either count as recovery (to reject lead sash) or just reject lead sash outright

 

[Dratios]

Given the Venusaur gets Earth Power now, I feel like it should be added to its moveset - kinda tired of being walled by Steel types

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Given the Venusaur gets Earth Power now, I feel like it should be added to its moveset - kinda tired of being walled by Steel types

Just subseed them

 

[DracoRage]

Why, in the love of God, is this "attacking" set for Bronzong even a thing?

Body Press/Iron Head/Psychic/Toxic with leftovers.

Not only is Bronzong weak enough it won't be hitting hard except 4x weaknesses, quite honestly it takes away from far more useful roles like screens, stealth rock setter or using gyro ball to hit setup sweepers hard. But no, we get this absolute trash set.

 

[A Cake Wearing A Hat]

Why, in the love of God, is this "attacking" set for Bronzong even a thing?

Body Press/Iron Head/Psychic/Toxic with leftovers.

Not only is Bronzong weak enough it won't be hitting hard except 4x weaknesses, quite honestly it takes away from far more useful roles like screens, stealth rock setter or using gyro ball to hit setup sweepers hard. But no, we get this absolute trash set.

Gyro ball in rands usually hits for around 70 base power due to the lack of negative nature in speed and the lack of full speed investment in other Pokemon. Iron head is, on average, stronger in randbats by a good margin. To give some raw numbers, against 200 Speed Pokemon, Gyro Ball is only 85 BP, and over 50% of Pokemon are below that.

3 attacks bronzong has always existed and it's honestly always needed all three. Earthquake was recently replaced with body press because it hits darks and does about the same damage as earthquake. Removing body press means bronzong is hard walled by all steels. Removing psychic means bronzong cannot check fighting or poison types. Removing steel STAB means bronzong cannot check fairies. All of the moves are necessary in the pool.

 

[DracoRage]

Body Press hitting darks is irrelevant if they can survive 2-3 hits, setup and then wreck the rest of your team, same for the Psychic and Iron Head combination. If you guys REALLY, REALLY want an attacking bronzong set, setup conditions to reject Toxic and Leftovers so it gets trick room and life orb. That way, some of your 3HKOs (after weakness) become 2HKOs and they can't setup as easily in your face.