You have no clue what fascism is, even if it hit you in the face.
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Serious 2020 Democratic Primary Thread
- Thread starter MikeDawg
- Start date
Let's not conflate populism and progressivism.
That was a joke. I was mocking the Bernie Brothers in this thread. Thanks for playing, though.
Edit: Let's take a moment to appreciate how you un-ironically suggested that opposing Bernie is akin to "hoping things don't improve" in a comment accusing me of posting in bad faith.
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omg how could someone accuse you,
the person who literally said that you hoped bernie died due to contracting corona, and admitted to finding joy in seeing marginalized people with progressive ideals be distraught in politics, and dismissed the story of a women and sexual assault on arrival because it didnt fit your poitical agenda going sofar as to insult her, and strawmanned every progressive in this thread at least once,
to be acting in bad faith?! preposterous! :(
Biden won the vast majority of marginalized people. Thanks for playing, though.
Unless you meant the people in this thread, in which case... lol.
This is priceless coming from you, especially considering:
Once again, you've totally missed the point. Illiterate.
Didn't I just ask you to stop interjecting in my conversations with dumb shit? You and Blingas need to form a support group.
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https://www.businessinsider.com/cor...t-help-millions-of-uninsured-americans-2020-4
Can I get a HOIIYPPPE in the chat for trump passing m4a
Can I get a HOIIYPPPE in the chat for trump passing m4a
new york democrats said fuck criminal justice reform, we gotta incarcerate more black people. who needs enemies with friends like these?
once again you use marginalized people as a statistic to beat others over the head with but i still have seen no signs that you actually give one solitary shit about them beyond that. again i compel you: when is the last time you actually talked to and listened to a poor person?
a lot of right wing governments seem to be willing to implement policies they insisted were impossible or undesirable for ages, funny how that works. probably more of a sign that neoliberal ideology is complete bunk and capitalism always needed strong social policies to remain somewhat stable, rather than a sign that these right wing govts have the people's best interest in mind. nevertheless, looking at how even now biden refuses to support m4a and governor cuomo, newfound liberal wunderkind, is trying to slash medicaid during a pandemic, by the looks of it republicans really are fully capable of running to the left of the dems at this point irregardless of their motives
i like how this thread has reached a point where New York of all places is the target of progressive unhappiness.
yes, i don't believe trump and you probably don't, but there's a good reason it's significant. even if trump is talking out of his ass there's a good section of the population that believes him (the section that thinks he's doing a good job at handling the covid crisis). so while we may not "fall for it," trump just needs to throw a few of these out there to run to the left of biden on the most important issue. it doesn't matter that he won't do anything, what matters is that he can actually promise this and there's no way biden can; his base believes him more than biden's base believes biden. almost like biden shouldn't have boxed himself into promising to veto m4a
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???????? should he not be unhappy about medicaid cuts and the terrible new budget that pushes austerity? do you think new york is some sort of progressive utopia where bernie sanders and the squad party in the streets? what's the point of this post?
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I was unaware that keeping burglars in jail prior to trial was a bad thing.
like let’s be real, not all lessening of punishments or rules, etc. constitute positive criminal justice reform. There actually are still criminals who actually do need to be handled appropriately.
NY did in fact get way out ahead of the rest of the country on this and then realized a few problems their new no-bail regime was causing and reinstated it for a few crimes. They’re still ahead of most places.
I also don’t know where you got this news that NY is slashing Medicaid, which is patently false. I know a LOT about state Medicaid programs from working with them for the last 5 years at my job and NY’s is already one of the most generous (and complex) programs in the country and they’re barely cutting anything and certainly not slashing it...
Annual Medicaid expenditures in NY are over $60B a year. There’s a budgetary shortfall for the program of around $4B right now. Any responsible government would have to try to address this in some way. The gap is largely because of NY’s exceptionally generous, compared to other states, enrollment standards, none of which are changing. What NY is changing is predominantly provider reimbursement. Very little to do with the benefit package NY Medicaid recipients will get or who is eligible.
All in all the changes NY is doing will shift at worst $1B of the 4 back to NYC so it’s off the statewide budget. NYC can possibly afford this extra billion or at worst is in no worse of a position to afford it than NY state is. I don’t consider this to be an actual solution since it’s just budgetary wizardry. And I’m also not really in a position to say who should be paying these costs (NYC does have an unusual amount of control over its Medicaid expenditures for a city already and they are a driver of NY’s high enrollment). But regardless of that, none of this budgetary magic is an actual cut to Medicaid.
There are a few cuts in the new budget that are very minor, and based on the NY Medicaid staff I’ve worked with over the years I’m sure were supported with good evidence. Meanwhile the budget includes other good new measures such as insulin out of pocket price caps. the net effect here of small cuts and small improvements is probably a wash.
like let’s be real, not all lessening of punishments or rules, etc. constitute positive criminal justice reform. There actually are still criminals who actually do need to be handled appropriately.
NY did in fact get way out ahead of the rest of the country on this and then realized a few problems their new no-bail regime was causing and reinstated it for a few crimes. They’re still ahead of most places.
I also don’t know where you got this news that NY is slashing Medicaid, which is patently false. I know a LOT about state Medicaid programs from working with them for the last 5 years at my job and NY’s is already one of the most generous (and complex) programs in the country and they’re barely cutting anything and certainly not slashing it...
Annual Medicaid expenditures in NY are over $60B a year. There’s a budgetary shortfall for the program of around $4B right now. Any responsible government would have to try to address this in some way. The gap is largely because of NY’s exceptionally generous, compared to other states, enrollment standards, none of which are changing. What NY is changing is predominantly provider reimbursement. Very little to do with the benefit package NY Medicaid recipients will get or who is eligible.
All in all the changes NY is doing will shift at worst $1B of the 4 back to NYC so it’s off the statewide budget. NYC can possibly afford this extra billion or at worst is in no worse of a position to afford it than NY state is. I don’t consider this to be an actual solution since it’s just budgetary wizardry. And I’m also not really in a position to say who should be paying these costs (NYC does have an unusual amount of control over its Medicaid expenditures for a city already and they are a driver of NY’s high enrollment). But regardless of that, none of this budgetary magic is an actual cut to Medicaid.
There are a few cuts in the new budget that are very minor, and based on the NY Medicaid staff I’ve worked with over the years I’m sure were supported with good evidence. Meanwhile the budget includes other good new measures such as insulin out of pocket price caps. the net effect here of small cuts and small improvements is probably a wash.
i'll just preface this by saying i thought the actual cut was being made to medicaid, so my phrasing was probably wrong there. your post still strikes me as so wrong though
https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion...0200326-rnw6avzcvjgpzl3pn24me5ba3a-story.html
that's an opinion piece so i guess ill link this too: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/nyregion/coronavirus-hospitals-medicaid-budget.html
again, i could not care less about the mechanisms at play here, but it seems like you're ignoring the obvious effect in favor of gotcha jingoism. how is this not in effect a cut? (unless you thought that specific point was so important you had to make a big post about it)
https://www.syracuse.com/coronaviru...ate-legislative-session-effectively-over.html <- another great sign for times to come ahead, seems like the perfect time to stop doing legislation
hahahahaha this isn't related to what i said so i'm not gonna bother responding, but this tells me so much about your worldview
okay, so let's assume what i said is, technically, false. let's assume you're actually arguing this in good faith (this seems like such a gotcha and mikedawg did a number on me with the "bernie sanders voted for the iraq war" but let's try).
https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion...0200326-rnw6avzcvjgpzl3pn24me5ba3a-story.html
that's an opinion piece so i guess ill link this too: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/30/nyregion/coronavirus-hospitals-medicaid-budget.html
again, i could not care less about the mechanisms at play here, but it seems like you're ignoring the obvious effect in favor of gotcha jingoism. how is this not in effect a cut? (unless you thought that specific point was so important you had to make a big post about it)
well okay... i don't think you need to be a medical expert to talk about this--or even have worked in the system (if anything i'd wager it probably makes you more intrinsically defensive about it) but sure; since you know a LOT about these programs, one would think you'd actually be opposed to cutting funds during a pandemic?
it doesn't matter that it's generous compared to other states, the healthcare system is a fucking mess and we should be investing as much as possible especially in time of a crisis. or do you wanna spend more when it inevitably gets worse bc we didn't do enough?
https://www.syracuse.com/coronaviru...ate-legislative-session-effectively-over.html <- another great sign for times to come ahead, seems like the perfect time to stop doing legislation
i didn't realise there was a difference outside of pokemon
Kingler12345 I literally work with state Medicaid programs, but sure go off. Common journalism on the issues is alarmist and not accurate. It relies on people assuming any reduction in money being spent on the program means people will lose access to coverage. That's not what NY is doing here. From what I can tell the only benefit being cut substantially is CDPA, which while a good benefit in theory is, unfortunately, one riddled with fraud.
(added a source, for example. There's tons out there about problems with CDPA if you'd prefer not to read a report that came out from HHS during the Trump admin: https://oig.hhs.gov/oas/reports/region2/21601026.pdf)
The way NY is saving money on Medicaid is just paying providers less, not cutting benefits...
This is literally the same way that M4A saves money too. You can't be for one and not the other.
For what it's worth cutting provider payments during a pandemic probably isn't the best idea, and it's something the projects I am actively working on now are trying to avoid doing, though I don't approve of the way that my projects are going about doing it. In the projects I'm working on right now (not in NY), providers are prospectively paid incentives to provide higher quality care and then if they don't meet those care standards, they repay the incentive. Right now the government is considering just not making the low quality providers who didn't earn the incentive repay. That's a bad policy decision in my mind. NY's more across the board reduction seems more fair to me, since it's at least not perversely rewarding the low quality providers more than the high quality providers.
(added a source, for example. There's tons out there about problems with CDPA if you'd prefer not to read a report that came out from HHS during the Trump admin: https://oig.hhs.gov/oas/reports/region2/21601026.pdf)
The way NY is saving money on Medicaid is just paying providers less, not cutting benefits...
This is literally the same way that M4A saves money too. You can't be for one and not the other.
For what it's worth cutting provider payments during a pandemic probably isn't the best idea, and it's something the projects I am actively working on now are trying to avoid doing, though I don't approve of the way that my projects are going about doing it. In the projects I'm working on right now (not in NY), providers are prospectively paid incentives to provide higher quality care and then if they don't meet those care standards, they repay the incentive. Right now the government is considering just not making the low quality providers who didn't earn the incentive repay. That's a bad policy decision in my mind. NY's more across the board reduction seems more fair to me, since it's at least not perversely rewarding the low quality providers more than the high quality providers.
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noooo mikedawg dont post in cong your so sexy aha...
I’m making this post as someone who voted for Bernie in California’s primary.
Honestly, the Bernie crowd is starting to upset me. Bernie keeps losing primaries he won in 2016 (examples: Oklahoma, Michigan) so how is he supposed to drive turnout in the general election? At this point, you have to be delusional to believe he could drive turnout in the general when he can’t even seem to do it in the primaries. It’s starting to become apparent that people who voted for him in the 2016 primaries were more or less voting against Hillary Clinton than voting for him.
This isn’t to say Joe Biden’s supporters are any better. When people say they won’t vote for him in the general, shame won’t get them to do so; that only makes them double down. The Biden camp needs to start making a case for Biden that isn’t “orange man bad” or “not voting is equivalent to voting for Trump.” Both of these arguments reek of how the Democrats continually bitch about spoiler candidates (see: Ralph Nader 2000, Jill Stein 2016) instead of actually trying to fucking earn people’s votes.
tl;dr: The Democratic Party is a mess and they’re gonna keep losing to Republicans until they get their shit together (not holding my breath).
Honestly, the Bernie crowd is starting to upset me. Bernie keeps losing primaries he won in 2016 (examples: Oklahoma, Michigan) so how is he supposed to drive turnout in the general election? At this point, you have to be delusional to believe he could drive turnout in the general when he can’t even seem to do it in the primaries. It’s starting to become apparent that people who voted for him in the 2016 primaries were more or less voting against Hillary Clinton than voting for him.
This isn’t to say Joe Biden’s supporters are any better. When people say they won’t vote for him in the general, shame won’t get them to do so; that only makes them double down. The Biden camp needs to start making a case for Biden that isn’t “orange man bad” or “not voting is equivalent to voting for Trump.” Both of these arguments reek of how the Democrats continually bitch about spoiler candidates (see: Ralph Nader 2000, Jill Stein 2016) instead of actually trying to fucking earn people’s votes.
tl;dr: The Democratic Party is a mess and they’re gonna keep losing to Republicans until they get their shit together (not holding my breath).
Well today is fun. Gotta love voter suppression in action. I at least am not in Milwaukee and have a 6 hour wait at a polling place because only 5 out of 180 are open, but still would rather not have to vote today. Didn't do absentee voting because I hadn't done it before and didn't realize I needed to get approved by the clerk ahead of time. Safe to say any result from today in wi is basically a sham and should just be reheld at a later date
Ironically, I wouldn't be shocked to see WI voting numbers up for a primary during the pandemic. While it certainly depresses turnout in the sense of scaring people away or due to polling places being closed, I could also see voting be up for others because they have nothing else to do. Many people whose jobs would not ordinarily make voting easy now are not working. Also, despite this recent court drama, absentee voting, generally speaking, should be way up from past primaries. The salience of the court's action itself could also increase turnout today, since a court seat is on the ballot. I'm not sure which if any of these factors outweighs others.
This of course isn't to say anything about the court order. The ~10k people who didn't receive their requested absentee ballot should not be required to vote in person, whether or not there is a pandemic.
This of course isn't to say anything about the court order. The ~10k people who didn't receive their requested absentee ballot should not be required to vote in person, whether or not there is a pandemic.
Bernie out, just wanna say this has been an incredible thread, hope you all can deliver again in 4 years.
Tucker/Tulsi Millennial unity ticket 2024
Tucker/Tulsi Millennial unity ticket 2024
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thank god MikeDawg got banned before this
Thank god this is over. Bernie stayed in too long, but glad he didn't take it all the way like last time. Now we can turn to November and what a shitshow this election will be (COVID-19 will likely be in a second wave by then).
So Bernies livestream just finished; legitimately honored to have been part of such a campaign, I was undecided for a good amount of last year when I got back into following this stuff till January. honestly, there’s a million things I’d want to criticize in retrospect (namely just being way too kind and generous to people who clearly didn’t deserve it or come close to acting in kind), but I guess that’s the way he is and you can’t fault someone for being true to themselves. It took me 3 years from trumps election (I really started following this stuff because I couldn’t believe something that ridiculous could happen) to really break through the propaganda bubble about Bernie, and I’m sure others have a similar story in that regard. It’s absolutely incredible in a historical context of this country what he did, not since Eugene Debs I’m guessing was such a prominent socialist in the forefront of our national platform.
Thanks, Bernie.
Thanks, Bernie.
The favored cocktail of the Bernie or Bust crowd is officially a glass of red wine garnished with a lit cigarette
In all seriousness, though, I think this was the right call. Obviously there's COVID-19 going on that means we shouldn't be dragging out the primary season, but it was becoming way too painfully clear that Bernie got a big boost in 2016 on account of running against Hillary Clinton.
Joe Biden has a few extra months to win over Bernie voters; hopefully he uses them well.
In all seriousness, though, I think this was the right call. Obviously there's COVID-19 going on that means we shouldn't be dragging out the primary season, but it was becoming way too painfully clear that Bernie got a big boost in 2016 on account of running against Hillary Clinton.
Joe Biden has a few extra months to win over Bernie voters; hopefully he uses them well.