Ag or OUThe tier with Volcarona
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OM Analyses Reservation Thread [READ THE ANNOUNCEMENT]
- Thread starter Ginger Princess
- Start date
- Status
Mystic Water Primarina was created as a filler item (so says Nalei herself) and at this point is more outdated when compared to Chilan and WP. We don't want to do an analysis w/ that as an item
Say can I replace Grimmsnarl (AG) with Bisharp (Nat Dex)?
Bisharp @ Black Glasses
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Knock Off
- Iron Head
- Sucker Punch
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name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Knock Off
move 3: Iron Head
move 4: Sucker Punch
item: Life Orb
ability: Defiant
nature: Jolly / Adamant
evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
This is the bisharp set that should be written about. Ur good to go but write about this one
i would like to propose another Zekrom set for BH:
Baton Pass Receiver
Moves: Bolt Beak, Dynamax Cannon, Fishious Rend, and Obstruct/baton pass/King's Shield
Ability: Speed Boost or Poison Heal
Item: Leftovers, toxic orb or Life orb
EVs: 252 all stats
Nature: Naughty or Lonely
The point of this Zekrom set is to open up holes for your team to exploit. Speed Boost, while it does work very well with the rest of the moveset, could be switched out for poison heal if you already have a baton passer with speed boost on it. the most helpful part of the set has to be the dynamx cannon since fairy types are rare outside of Zacian or Alcremie, and there are only a few steel types who can truly threaten Zekrom via dynamax. also, it is most likely better to run leftovers instead of life orb, since life orb deals recoil, and Zekrom does enough threatening damage on its own withouut life orb. this set does, however, get checked by the previously mentioned Zacian (hero of many battles forme) if it has pixilate, as extreme speed can effortlessly threaten it. This Pokemon is the only reason why you would run King's shield over baton pass (which gets you out of more situations and keeps offensive momentum by potentially passing to a dynamax threat like G-max Snorlax) or obstruct (which gives you another turn of speed boost to dish out extra damage with fishious rend or bolt beak, in addition to potentially dropping the opponent's defense, making those two moves all the more painful).
I would also like to reserve Xurkitree for National Dex:
Scarf Threat
Xurkitree @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Ice
This one I'm still researching. I would like to have a few other people test this in teams that are either built around it or (and I would much rather this be the case) as a secondary win condition that is meant to help a team that is somewhat lacking in offense or that doesn't cover the types that this set does.
Baton Pass Receiver
Moves: Bolt Beak, Dynamax Cannon, Fishious Rend, and Obstruct/baton pass/King's Shield
Ability: Speed Boost or Poison Heal
Item: Leftovers, toxic orb or Life orb
EVs: 252 all stats
Nature: Naughty or Lonely
The point of this Zekrom set is to open up holes for your team to exploit. Speed Boost, while it does work very well with the rest of the moveset, could be switched out for poison heal if you already have a baton passer with speed boost on it. the most helpful part of the set has to be the dynamx cannon since fairy types are rare outside of Zacian or Alcremie, and there are only a few steel types who can truly threaten Zekrom via dynamax. also, it is most likely better to run leftovers instead of life orb, since life orb deals recoil, and Zekrom does enough threatening damage on its own withouut life orb. this set does, however, get checked by the previously mentioned Zacian (hero of many battles forme) if it has pixilate, as extreme speed can effortlessly threaten it. This Pokemon is the only reason why you would run King's shield over baton pass (which gets you out of more situations and keeps offensive momentum by potentially passing to a dynamax threat like G-max Snorlax) or obstruct (which gives you another turn of speed boost to dish out extra damage with fishious rend or bolt beak, in addition to potentially dropping the opponent's defense, making those two moves all the more painful).
I would also like to reserve Xurkitree for National Dex:
Scarf Threat
Xurkitree @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Energy Ball
- Thunderbolt/Hidden Power Ice
This one I'm still researching. I would like to have a few other people test this in teams that are either built around it or (and I would much rather this be the case) as a secondary win condition that is meant to help a team that is somewhat lacking in offense or that doesn't cover the types that this set does.
I use this set on one of my BH teams:
Munchlax @ Eviolite
Ability: Fluffy
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Shade
- Wish
- Court Change
- Teleport
Xurkitree is currently not up for reservation, please select a Pokemon from S to B+ on the Viability Rankings to write an analysis on
I think you should switch it to Fur Coat and then switch it to Type: Null, this way you have more balanced stats across the board, while Fur Coat allows it to handle Fighting-type moves. The hidden benefit of it is that Secret Sword, a Special Attack, hits off of the Defense stat, which allows the ability to simply handle the most used Fighting-type Special Attack, as Aura Sphere and Focus Blast don’t enable mixed sweeping / perfect accuracy, respectively.
Fluffy has the same effect, except it fails on non-contact moves, or Fire-type attacks. You have the right mindset though.
Type: Null would definitely use Teleport on some sets, but I would suggest Baton Pass over Teleport, Recover over Wish (many things set up - so go for the immediate Heal), Spectral Thief (over Night Shade) which works well since the foe cannot use it against you (Normal-type immunity coming into play), and the last move would be possibly Court Change (but they could just set up again), so I would replace it with Rapid Spin.
The reason? Rapid Spin boosts its Speed by +1, making it actually have a guaranteed boosting move.
Like you, I use Zekrom, which is a perfect recipient of +1 Speed, due to Bolt Beak. Since Rapid Spin is first seen as a Utility move, the foe won’t assume you are going to Baton Pass, so it can catch them off guard. Totally pays off!
I use the same set for my Umbreon, except with Ice Scales and it serves me well.
Also, another benefit over Umbreon and Munchlax, is not only a greater Attack, but greater Speed.
This can pay off if you use Spectral Thief against someone using Dragon Dance, as you might end up being faster, and have enough Speed to go first the following turn to Attack with Spectral Thief a second turn in a row before they can Recover. It does strong damage versus, say, Marshadow, or Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, who thinks it’s Fighting STAB or Sunsteel Strike, respectively, can break past Fur Coat, only to realize Eviolite makes it bulkier than even Arceus.
Another benefit is that it outspeed the Dragons like Reshiram, and Zekrom, letting you cut their initial Bolt Beak in half by being faster (for Zekrom), while one trick with Reshiram is to Rapid Spin the turn it uses Quiver Dance, then Spectral Thief to stay faster, and then Baton Pass to an ally, who will outspeed it, and threaten it, such as Tyranitar, or Primordial Sea Zamazenta-Crowned.
Type: Full (Type: Null) @ Eviolite
Ability:
EVs: 252 HP / 252 / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Recover
- Court Change / Rapid Spin
- Baton Pass
*To everyone just sad or laughing reacting you, I remind them to wake on up out of feeling you are not able to understand. Instead of trying to laugh off your posts, I would rather help you understand, and explain the purpose, not just brushing past your ideas, so you can better consider more options and why.
We were all new once!
Fluffy has the same effect, except it fails on non-contact moves, or Fire-type attacks. You have the right mindset though.
Type: Null would definitely use Teleport on some sets, but I would suggest Baton Pass over Teleport, Recover over Wish (many things set up - so go for the immediate Heal), Spectral Thief (over Night Shade) which works well since the foe cannot use it against you (Normal-type immunity coming into play), and the last move would be possibly Court Change (but they could just set up again), so I would replace it with Rapid Spin.
The reason? Rapid Spin boosts its Speed by +1, making it actually have a guaranteed boosting move.
Like you, I use Zekrom, which is a perfect recipient of +1 Speed, due to Bolt Beak. Since Rapid Spin is first seen as a Utility move, the foe won’t assume you are going to Baton Pass, so it can catch them off guard. Totally pays off!
I use the same set for my Umbreon, except with Ice Scales and it serves me well.
Also, another benefit over Umbreon and Munchlax, is not only a greater Attack, but greater Speed.
This can pay off if you use Spectral Thief against someone using Dragon Dance, as you might end up being faster, and have enough Speed to go first the following turn to Attack with Spectral Thief a second turn in a row before they can Recover. It does strong damage versus, say, Marshadow, or Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, who thinks it’s Fighting STAB or Sunsteel Strike, respectively, can break past Fur Coat, only to realize Eviolite makes it bulkier than even Arceus.
Another benefit is that it outspeed the Dragons like Reshiram, and Zekrom, letting you cut their initial Bolt Beak in half by being faster (for Zekrom), while one trick with Reshiram is to Rapid Spin the turn it uses Quiver Dance, then Spectral Thief to stay faster, and then Baton Pass to an ally, who will outspeed it, and threaten it, such as Tyranitar, or Primordial Sea Zamazenta-Crowned.
Type: Full (Type: Null) @ Eviolite
Ability:
EVs: 252 HP / 252 / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Impish Nature
- Spectral Thief
- Recover
- Court Change / Rapid Spin
- Baton Pass
*To everyone just sad or laughing reacting you, I remind them to wake on up out of feeling you are not able to understand. Instead of trying to laugh off your posts, I would rather help you understand, and explain the purpose, not just brushing past your ideas, so you can better consider more options and why.
We were all new once!
I have a BH perfect analysis submission that is really unique to face, getting into the 1610s (top 15 in just a couple of days) on the Ladder.
I don’t know if I need to post replays here, so I am using hide tags.
I will show it is “meta enough”, so much so it can even handle the less orthodox teams, in addition to the more standard ones. Now, in each replay, it basically handles entire teams mostly on its own in the first couple of matches.
Rain
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1121184026
Sun
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1120865987
Bonus: You know it’s good when others start using it too!
I have created an Inspiration (see in-game text)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1120853232
Rain
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1121184026
Sun
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1120865987
Bonus: You know it’s good when others start using it too!
I have created an Inspiration (see in-game text)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8balancedhackmons-1120853232
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock / Spikes / Rapid Spin
- Psycho Shift
- Facade
- Strength Sap / Recover
This unique set is a multi-tasker, and really uses all of its assets in one moveset:
Sets up hazards (or removes them - even against Ghosts), Burns foes with Psycho Shift to bypass Magic Bounce, Flash Fire, and Primordial Sea. You can also Psycho Shift away other status conditions, if Burn isn’t active, or absorb status, if Burned.
*Facade avoids the Burn drawback while becoming 252 base power thanks to Pixelate: 2HKOing Eternatus, Zamazenta-Crowned, and 1HKOing Umbreon / Mandibuzz, Zamazenta.
Lastly, I choose Strength Sap to cut down on slower Steel-types like Melmetal and Zamazenta-Crowned’s STAB and turn the tables on their power to become my healing spree. Recover can be used if you want more consistent healing.
This set is groundbreaking; hit like a truck, spread status, stall out its Steel counters, and outspeed the majority of the metagame, all while providing hazard support, or Pixelate Rapid Spin support against Ghosts. This unique set is a multi-tasker, and really uses all of its assets in one moveset.
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You need to focus on testing it yourself (Xurkitree) to ensure it is worth writing. I feel like your sets are better off being posted in the Creative and Underrated threads, while the Analysis reservation is for the “final product” version.
It is also important to check the on-site BH list of completed analysis (scroll to find Zekrom at the near bottom), or any already in progress (in the listing underneath this thread) to ensure you do not duplicate sets.
Your Poison Heal set with Zekrom is already done, and your set using Dynamax Cannon may be useful for when a foe Dynamaxes, but based on a higher Atk, and having an equally powerful base damage move in Dragon Darts, which can also break Focus Sash and Substitute, you will find that move, instead of Dynamax Cannon, more useful. The PH set in the analysis also works off its strengths, such as packing Knock Off to punish Choice Scarf wielding Imposter, (Pokemon who use Imposter to copy your exact Pokemon with much higher HP, or if Pikachu Atk/Spe - they often pack Scarf to outspeed you and try and KO you first). Because of Imposter, Knock Off is used over Drsgon Darts, at times, and Will-o-Wisp works because Poison Heal prevents you from being Burned, even if you target something with Magic Bounce. Overall, their analysis thought of everything and tested out the most common issues it had and minimized them...
I would from now on only test; then share with others in the Creative and Underrated threads after consistent success (save some replays), and consider the most optimal sets only.
I used to focus on what sounded fun, and niche, but when it comes to analysis that is a category of only standard sets. Basically, view the analysis as a readable Pokemon profile for people who are just starting out to learn from.
If you post anything less than optimal, it will not be selected, only exceptions being strong alternatives (such as Fur Coat Vs Ice Scales would possibly require a different moveset). I want what is best for you, and it feels that others were not helping you, so I am giving you the matter of fact response to guide you.
For the Central Resources threads for overall information, check this for National Dex, and especially Role Compendum, that alone will get you to understand the best way to conceptualize the role a Pokemon can and should have, so it stands out, for you to consider alternatives or new standard sets for Pokemon analysis — down the line.
Check out this Central Resources thread for Balanced Hackmons, plus this overall thread, just for the first pages of information, so you can get the core data of what makes Pokemon work and then build out a new or waiting-to-be-published standard set.
You sound like an awesome, honest, and passionate about the metagames person, it’s just that analysis require finality in their overall goal, where you post only what is consistently good, and less situational stuff. I think with more practice you will come back here ready to post your next request. You, in the meantime, would only benefit from trying to see the examples of completed analysis, and at least ones in-progress now.
Have you checked anything done, or in-progress (not this request thread)? I would, the best way to learn is to see the approved examples, then go from reading the resource / main threads to getting to the final analysis request after learning what works, so you see how they explain the set, Pokemon, etc. and basically why it is so good it needs to be written about, so you can do the same.
Don’t feel bad, it’s just a matter of testing it. Not everyone’s stuff will be approved, but I have seen an analysis of mine go thru the full stages, and it was accepted because people know I am very much a tester of Darmanitan-Zen and have probably the most knowledge of it than the other players in the community, since it is the main Pokemon I used. In that regard, people who know me as the “Darmanitan-Zen” guy, already knew I tested it.
With less experience on newer Pokemon, like Zacian, I included replays in my analysis request to demonstrate it works, so people see how it is used, both individually, in the team support it needs (I.e. Having a Pokemon to counter it when Imposter comes in- such as my Magic Bounce Melmetal), and in the metagame what niche it has over similar Pokemon. For example, it is the fastest Fairy-type able to hold Flame Orb, has relatively high attack for Facade, and isn’t weak to many Special Attacks (Eternatus’ Sheer Force Sludge Wave is basically it, since Steel Special Attacks suck), etc.
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Point taken, but the set I shared for Zekrom serves a different purpose, and poison heal is only for when your baton passer already can boost speed quickly and easily by more than two stages. This Zekrom is not meant to sweep by itself, and also is not used in the late game. This set is more for the early and mid-game, when baton passes are more doable. if you don't have a move that increases speed and can be used multiple times without leaving the passer too vulnerable, then you run Speed Boost. Additionally, the Zekrom set already listed in the Smogon Dex is not that helpful against ground, according to the author. Fishious Rend is able to cover some ground types and is NOT listed as a potential move in the set; just Bolt Beak. Speaking of Bolt Beak, the only other commonality between the two Zekrom sets is Poison Heal (yes that includes Toxic Orb), which is listed as a secondary option. Also, Zekrom still has a very good special attack at base 120, so a baton passer that can buff all stats could work really well with this set, lessening the need for Poison Heal. A wish passer could also be useful on a team surrounding this set, and then adding another strong baton pass sweeper like basically any Zacian set (yes, that includes yours, i guess) or a Pokemon that can hit hard with both attack and sp. atk with the following moves:
-Flying Press
-any ground type move
-any ghost type move
-Freeze-dry
this set can hit the most Pokemon super effectively, and hits every type except fairy super effectively in addition to that.
TL;DR, Different movesets, different roles.
The Xurkitree point is completely valid tho, I just don't really have any other friends who are good at Pokemon lmao
Imma probably just post the set on a PS discord server I'm in and resubmit it.
edit: apparently not, since Xurkitree isn't "viable enough". Why is that a thing?
edit 2: the entire process of getting this submitted is like getting approval to build something lmao. so much paperwork
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bruh
if you won't let me do Xurkitree, can you at least give me sand rush stoutland? pwwwweeeeease?
here is the set:
choice band sand rush coverage killer
Stoutland @ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fire Fang
- Ice Fang
- Pursuit/crunch
- Play Rough
this set has trouble killing those the set is neutral to, but can easily put pressure on those it does hit super effectively with a KO. It pairs well on sand teams with Excadrill, as they both cover most of the types they cannot hit super effectively themselves.
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Permission to retake AG Grimmsnarl
reserving Fraxure for NFEFraxure @ Choice Band
Ability: Rivalry
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Superpower / Stomping Tantrum
- First Impression
Fraxure @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance / Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Stomping Tantrum
- Poison Jab / First Impression
Ability: Rivalry
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Superpower / Stomping Tantrum
- First Impression
Fraxure @ Eviolite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance / Swords Dance
- Outrage
- Stomping Tantrum
- Poison Jab / First Impression
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I'd like to take Shedinja and defensive defog Salamence Mega for Natdex AG.
Mence's speed investment is fairly customisable, it can be a lot lower or a bit higher without compromising its utility. I don't remember why I run 56 spe on my mences but there's definitely a good reason.
Shedinja @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Baton Pass
- X-Scissor
- Will-O-Wisp
- Toxic
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Slam
- Defog
- Refresh
- Roost
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 200 Def / 56 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Slam
- Defog
- Refresh
- Roost
it's good except:
-shadow sneak>xscissor (48PP, and better than spite while zygarde sleeps)
-salamence should be faster than adamant full speed pdon at least, so 16 evs like supportceus. 124 speed for jolly ones is irrelevant cuz u cant do anything back anyway, 16 is fine cuz it doesnt cost anything. 88 creeps yveltal but you are not switching in, so let's say 16.
Reserving Diancie-Mega for Nat-Dex OU
Set:
Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 224 HP / 32 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Substitute
Set:
Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 224 HP / 32 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Substitute
Alolan vulpix nfe
can i do vullaby for nfe
Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Shiny: No
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic / U-Turn / Taunt
Vullaby (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Roost / Dark Pulse
Vullaby @ Eviolite
Ability: Overcoat
Shiny: No
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Knock Off
- Roost
- Defog
- Toxic / U-Turn / Taunt
Vullaby (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Air Slash
- Heat Wave
- Roost / Dark Pulse
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