The Anarchism Thread

Hi, I'm a former conservative capitalist who was introduced to anarchism in early 2020. I'd like to talk about anarchism as a political movement. The dictionary defines anarchy as a total lack of rules and structure, but anarchism as a policy is anything but. Anarchists strive for a stateless classless society without any hierarchies. All the structures and orders you would want is still there, but this time, everybody is involved in the process of making it happen, rather than just everybody voting on a special group of governors to give up their power too.
Anarchism may seem like an archaic way of thinking, but there are in fact some small anarchist societies still thriving today, such as some sections of Mexico. What do you think about Anarchism? How do you think it compares to our current norms of capitalism? Please discuss.
 
there are in fact some small anarchist societies still thriving today,
I don't know enough to comment on much else in this post, but I think the word small and, by implication, homogeneous are the keywords here. When you have a shared set of perception and values, you can feasibly trust the collective to come up with a way forward that's agreed upon (though there's no guarantee that that way forward is good) and not get stuck in gridlock, but hey welcome to America where 25% of people think Sun revolves around Earth.

"if men were angels, there would be no need for government" - thomas jefferson
- michael scott
 
how do you leave the right side
like commieism it can work in small communtiies for a short amount of time but people are greedy, like power, and like a backed up security. Businesses, governments, even just someone with a gun will take over an anarchy.
you also dont promote technological innovation, or any production really, through the free market. sure all the faults of capitalism exist but it works
 
When you say "whitewashed" what do you mean?
historically and presently, the label 'anarchism' is misapplied to indigenous movements against imperialist/fascist forces that are essentially socialistic/communistic in nature. this rhetoric ignores these movements' post-colonial roots.
 
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I’m still not sure what you’re implying. EDIT: Oh wait, I think I get it... you’re saying that anarchism was originally a movement consisting mainly of indigenous people, and that white people took it away from them in some way?
 
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no I'm saying that the label is often misattributed when applied to anti-imperialist causes, it is the difference between abstractly rejecting the idea of state power full stop versus rejecting the practice of a particular state's power. i am not at all saying anarchism was a movement originally composed of indigenous people and some how white ppl took anarchism away, what sense would that make? I would say that some white anarchists have a tendency to incorrectly apply the label of anarchism to socialist movements however.
 
Anarchism as a philosophy is really interesting to me from what I know of it so far. Dissolving hierarchies where present is usually a good thing imo, as concentrated power seems to be the root of a lot of problems. As someone who puts collective wellbeing firs in their politics (workers owning the means of production, universal systems that provide people with their basic needs, etc), I tend to most identify with the umbrella term socialist. What would you say are the biggest differentiators between a socialist and an anarchist? I know people who identify as both and there's some overlap, so I'm curious to see what you'd say the dividing lines are.

Edit: also considering your recent shift in political identification I am curious to hear about that shift more. What about anarchism drew you over from being a conservative capitalist?
 
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I tend to most identify with the umbrella term socialist. What would you say are the biggest differentiators between a socialist and an anarchist? I know people who identify as both and there's some overlap, so I'm curious to see what you'd say the dividing lines are.
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are you being obtuse for lolz or is this an actual question. because it comes off as rather hurrdurrmcgrrr.

My understanding of Anarchism is that hierarchies are not outright rejected, but all authority is questioned and must be justified, where failing this, illegitimate hierarchies are rejected.

Hierarchies can form from both tyranny and competence. If a society rejects the latter form of hierarchy, how does it progress? How does it reward competence without creating hierarchies? Without reward, how does it incentivise competence, innovation, and progress? My comment suggested that society would in fact regress, because what would be the point of doing anything productive whatsoever; the endgame being subsisting as a hunter gatherer.
 
anarchism is a fantasy. anarchism is only capable to exist in video games where any opposing political forces are literally hard-coded to not exist.
 
Anarchism as a philosophy is really interesting to me from what I know of it so far. Dissolving hierarchies where present is usually a good thing imo, as concentrated power seems to be the root of a lot of problems. As someone who puts collective wellbeing firs in their politics (workers owning the means of production, universal systems that provide people with their basic needs, etc), I tend to most identify with the umbrella term socialist. What would you say are the biggest differentiators between a socialist and an anarchist? I know people who identify as both and there's some overlap, so I'm curious to see what you'd say the dividing lines are.

Edit: also considering your recent shift in political identification I am curious to hear about that shift more. What about anarchism drew you over from being a conservative capitalist?


Yes, I was born into a rather conservative family all things considered, so I never really questioned the nature of getting a job and making money, even if that money WAS the difference between life and death in many scenarios. I did not shift from conservative capitalist to anarchosocialist all in one go. I gradually shifted my views towards the political left (the democratic party, progressive politics broadly, such as Richard Wolf from economic update,). Then I started watching a lot of leftist Youtubers like Thought Slime and Non Compete. I saw that a lot of their arguments make sense, and when I talk about it to my acquaintances, they too enjoy the idea of society's economic system becoming a lot more NEED-based rather than profit-based.

I could go on, but I think you guys get my point.
 
Yes, I was born into a rather conservative family all things considered, so I never really questioned the nature of getting a job and making money, even if that money WAS the difference between life and death in many scenarios. I did not shift from conservative capitalist to anarchosocialist all in one go. I gradually shifted my views towards the political left (the democratic party, progressive politics broadly, such as Richard Wolf from economic update,). Then I started watching a lot of leftist Youtubers like Thought Slime and Non Compete. I saw that a lot of their arguments make sense, and when I talk about it to my acquaintances, they too enjoy the idea of society's economic system becoming a lot more NEED-based rather than profit-based.

I could go on, but I think you guys get my point.

I haven't watched Thought Slime or Non Compete--

Was there anything that made you reject the idea (or go past the idea) of falling somewhere in/around Richard Wolf; probably a broadly socially democratic society that is based primarily on a worker-owned economy and enshrining some form of direct democracy?

I'll be honest that I haven't delved much into content made by actual anarchists, but as someone whose ideal could be broadly painted as:
-Hybrid Government with elected executives & legislators but also over-ride mechanism from direct democracy legislation
-Social Democratic Safety net secured as rights
-Primarily worker-owned organizations running the economy

We're probably on a similar page direction-wise. Also I can sympathize with your political transformation-- I'm from basically a neo-liberal capitalist family but I found so much sense in what Bernie Sanders was saying that the logical arguments that followed pulled me further and further left.

Also would be interested in hearing your thoughts (or anarchist's ideas) on connectivity issues: foreign policy/immigration/trade. While generally I consider myself more sympathetic to arguments from the left, I can't help thinking that there are real practical limitations to securing even pockets of justice without acknowledging the merits of some forms of localized power/sovereignty.
Example: I do think there would be more social justice in the US if they re-shored many of their production chains, and I would be willing to work with right-wing populists who agreed with the sentiment. Feel the same for the country I live in: Japan.

Another example: Living in Japan, I have like 81% agreement with the Japanese Communist party according to ISideWith. That said, it boggles my mind how The Communist Party of Japan can think that it is a primary goal of theirs to make Japan independent of US imperialism, but ALSO think Japanese military capabilities need to be dramatically scaled back. How does that work???? <--willing to have my thoughts changed by other leftists.

Or on energy: Sure green energy that turns everyone's house into a mini power plant on a socialized connected grid is the most democratic type of energy, but watching Japanese progressives make eliminating nuclear power priority numero-uno when this country is still under western thumb and running on foreign-controlled fossil fuels just seems insane to me. Tokyo Electric, a nationalized corporation, just should not be on the left's big bad radar when we're still reliant on the fossil fuels controlled by the Middle East, Russia, and the US.

So I think there are arguments to be made for having localized centers of power (like countries), and don't see open borders as inherently better for justice or socialism.
 
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Example: I do think there would be more social justice in the US if they re-shored many of their production chains, and I would be willing to work with right-wing populists who agreed with the sentiment. Feel the same for the country I live in: Japan.
would general xenophobia there just, yknow, make social justice hard (idk japan nowadays or much at all sooo)
Living in Japan, I have like 81% agreement with the Japanese Communist party according to ISideWith. That said, it boggles my mind how The Communist Party of Japan can think that it is a primary goal of theirs to make Japan independent of US imperialism, but ALSO think Japanese military capabilities need to be dramatically scaled back. How does that work???? <--willing to have my thoughts changed by other leftists.
being independent of the US impearlists is primarily a culture/economic thing and military is a government thing on protection, both goals would be ideal regardless of the other problems. plus the U.S probably wont attack to get their way but idk
they too enjoy the idea of society's economic system becoming a lot more NEED-based rather than profit-based.
how do you force people to work
bc capitalism... forces people to work without actually forcing them with the profit incentive
 
Anarchism? more like socialism thats been white washed to distance it from its post-colonial roots imo.
Are you that blind as to how authoritarian socialism is? Anarchism is literally the exact fucking opposite.

(This is not me throwing my hat to Anarchism, it's still equally a stupid idea)
 
Are you that blind as to how authoritarian socialism is? Anarchism is literally the exact fucking opposite.

(This is not me throwing my hat to Anarchism, it's still equally a stupid idea)
Socialist governments can be authoritarian just as capitalist ones can. That doesn't mean socialism is inherently authoritarian.
 
Socialist governments can be authoritarian just as capitalist ones can. That doesn't mean socialism is inherently authoritarian.
It's hard to justify socialism as libertarian leaning by any stretch of the imagination when you're literally centralizing a government to do whatever the hell you want, whether it'd be workers owning their means of labor through the government gun (because screw business owner, subsidized equal paychecks, or centralized healthcare. You can look at Venezuela, Cuba, etc. And before you suggest the nordic countries, they're primarily capitalist, and that notion has been debunked over and over. If you're gonna support socialism, more power to you, but say what it actually is. What Myzozoa did was incredibly misleading.
 
It's hard to justify socialism as libertarian leaning by any stretch of the imagination when you're literally centralizing a government to do whatever the hell you want, whether it'd be workers owning their means of labor through the government gun (because screw business owner, subsidized equal paychecks, or centralized healthcare. You can look at Venezuela, Cuba, etc. And before you suggest the nordic countries, they're primarily capitalist, and that notion has been debunked over and over. If you're gonna support socialism, more power to you, but say what it actually is. What Myzozoa did was incredibly misleading.
Socialism as an umbrella term is basically just a wide variety of ideas typically centered around workers collectively owning the means of production aka democratized workplaces in which people aren't subservient to one person just cuz they have a ton of capital. More people having more power over their work. No inherent authoritarianism there
 
It's hard to justify socialism as libertarian leaning by any stretch of the imagination when you're literally centralizing a government to do whatever the hell you want, whether it'd be workers owning their means of labor through the government gun (because screw business owner, subsidized equal paychecks, or centralized healthcare. You can look at Venezuela, Cuba, etc. And before you suggest the nordic countries, they're primarily capitalist, and that notion has been debunked over and over. If you're gonna support socialism, more power to you, but say what it actually is. What Myzozoa did was incredibly misleading.
Myzos original comment was arcane as fuck but they already explained it in a follow up post. How are you such a collosally bad reader?
 
Myzos original comment was arcane as fuck but they already explained it in a follow up post. How are you such a collosally bad reader?
He was comparing socialism and anarchism, which are literal polar opposites. Thanks for the impartiality, as always. :I
 
He was comparing socialism and anarchism, which are literal polar opposites. Thanks for the impartiality, as always. :I
Myzo Post #1: Something something really esoteric about socialism and anarchism
Myzo Post #2: Doesn't like the label anarchism because it's misapplied to socialism
Dece1t Shitpost: Socialism isn't anarchism!!!

You called them out twice just to accidentally agree with them

Gordon Ramsay wishes his taste was as selective as your reading.
 
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