Fixed those issues, adding Draco Meteor and Steel Beam on those who gets Dragon-type or Steel-type respectively, and removing the same moves from those who loses the respective moves. If there are still some that I missed, let me know.
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Pet Mod Regional Evolutions (Concluded for Generation 8)
- Thread starter Samtendo09
- Start date
On this topic all grass types seem to have access to Grassy Glide although it’s not specifically limited to grass types only.
Is it fine if I nerf Chivalot’s Attack stat by 10 and add them to Speed to not be THAT broken?
I do not think it should apply to Grassy Glide, as a few non-Grass-type outside of Mew can learn them, i.e. Comfey, Dubwool line and Sirfetch'd. As such Grassy Slide is not mandatory for any Grass-type submission.
It would be fine, yes.
I’m thinking Arctyrant will be very problematic. It’s got Dragon Dance and a Fishious Rend clone with Strong Jaw, and it’s naturally faster and hits harder than Dracovish. After one Dragon Dance, it’s faster than Scarf Dracovish, stronger than Band Dracovish, and isn’t locked into a move. Also, unlike Electric and Water, Ice doesn’t have a type or Ability that’s immune to it, so you can’t switch in something like Seismitoad. The only things that can even hope to switch in on a Biting Chill at +1 or +2 are fully invested physically bulky dual-resists like Heatran, Bakufugu, Fojiyama and Reluvish (or Thick Fat Arctigoat, a physically bulky triple-resist). All of these either take a huge chunk from Earthquake or are outright OHKO’d by it, except for Levitate Bakufugu. Even at only +1, Life Orb Arctyrant’s Biting Chill can still 2HKO a fully invested Avalugg. Arctochomp is a bit easier to deal with due to the lack of Dragon Dance or Strong Jaw, but it’s still going to end up being OP.
I hate to propose a ban before any playtesting is done, but all evidence points to Biting Chill making two separate Pokémon broken, so banning the move is probably the best solution.
Autotomize on Reluvish is probably also a bit much, and it should lose Rock Polish as well, considering it has Fishious Rend, Strong Jaw, base 130 Attack, and a better offensive and defensive typing than Dracovish. Remember that the moves we’re working with here are ridiculously powerful and should be treated very carefully. Anything with more than about base 90 Attack shouldn’t be getting those moves, and nothing that gets Strong Jaw or any way to boost their Attack or Speed.
I hate to propose a ban before any playtesting is done, but all evidence points to Biting Chill making two separate Pokémon broken, so banning the move is probably the best solution.
Autotomize on Reluvish is probably also a bit much, and it should lose Rock Polish as well, considering it has Fishious Rend, Strong Jaw, base 130 Attack, and a better offensive and defensive typing than Dracovish. Remember that the moves we’re working with here are ridiculously powerful and should be treated very carefully. Anything with more than about base 90 Attack shouldn’t be getting those moves, and nothing that gets Strong Jaw or any way to boost their Attack or Speed.
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Yeah, I'll tell you what, I'd immediately ban Biting Chill because of the problems it would cause. I knew I cannot trust people making clones of Fisheous Rend/Bolt Beak, because there's ending up no restraint about these moves.
Fisheous Rends is what caused Dracovish to be banned from Gen 8 Galar OU.
So, would I have to nerf Poison Dart to 50 BP?
It needs to be a clone of an existing move. You can make it a clone of Dragon Darts (50 BP, 2 hits, no secondary effect), Twineedle (25 BP, 2 hits, 20% poison chance on each hit), Pin Missile (25 BP, 2-5 hits, no secondary effect), or Dynamic Punch (100 BP, 50% Accuracy, 100% poison chance), or pretty much anything else you can think of (Water Shuriken? Surging Strikes?), but the move you’ve got now isn’t a clone of something else.
Come to think of it, doesn’t Bisharp have a BST of 490 anyway? That’s above the cap of 485 listed in the OP. Lycanroc gets a pass because it’s not exactly viable, but Steel/Fighting Guts Bisharp (with an Eviolite boost, mind you) seems OU-worthy on its own. I’d think that Chivalot would work better as a replacement for Bisharp instead of a whole new stage.
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I was actually thinking of nerfing Biting Chill's base power to 50 BP for the reasons mentioned - there needed to be a check and balance in that the move has to be weaker and also that Arctyrant should not have moves to counter any the opponents that can withstand Biting Chill. That said, Biting Chill can't be nerfed because you guys said that new moves can only be clones of existing ones, thereby preventing any BP nerf from happening, so Ice Fang is a valid substitute given the high attacking power for both Arctyrant and Arctochomp as it stands. There's also the alternative of making Biting Chill an Ice-type Crunch clone with only the type being changed, but I'm not sure if that'd be any more useful than just using Ice Fang as is.
By the same token, kindly remove any Ground-type moves from Arctyrant's movepool and any speed-boosting ones from that of Reluvish (replace Autotomize with Harden and you should be good). I am willing to accept any changes that would keep these two from being absurdly overpowered, even if we also have to consider the risk of these changes making them next to useless in OU.
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TBH not everything needs to be useful for OU; we do not want the NatDex OU to become bloated and it's more important to nerf down OP threats than buffing anything not exactly fitting for OU because of that. As such, something being overpowered should be treated as a bigger red flag than something just not viable enough for OU (unless it's ending up in something like UUBL or RUBL).
Most I could do for this is to simply banish Biting Chill until it is given for something much slower and more middling Attack and replace it by Ice Fang, and remove Earthquake to not cheese Fire-type and Steel-type so easily. I will also accept transwiththeplans' change for Poison Dart.
In short, I removed Speed boosting moves from Galarian Relicanth line, removed Biting Chill from Arctyrant and Arctochomp, and Ground-type coverage from latter two so that they can't cheese thorough FIre and Steel-types too easily. If the Galarian Relicanth line would proves to be too problematic with Fisheous Rend, I would just remove that move from the line as well but may give back Autotomize and Rock Polish.
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I don’t think they’d be anywhere near useless in OU. Slow as Reluvish is, it’s a Water/Steel type with bulk and a base 130 Attack Strong Jaw-boosted Fishious Rend (which will still be a problem; I’d suggest making a Water-type Crunch clone instead so that people can switch into it). Galarian Relicanth has similar stats but is arguably better because of Eviolite. Arctyrant still has Dragon Dance and strong STAB, and Arctochomp has base 130 Attack and similarly powerful STAB. They’re all viable at the very least. Also, as I mentioned before, Reluvish gets Autotomize and Rock Polish, which should both go if you keep Fishious Rend but might be allowed to stay if you don’t.
The lore I had in mind was that Fishious Rend always was inherent to the -vish half of Dracovish and Arctovish, so it was going to originate with Reluvish from day one. The stat spread and type combination were meant for -vish to be a slow-moving but hard-hitting tank as well (which also fits with Galarian Relicanth going extinct because its heavy head weighed it down too much to escape faster predators). As such, I'd suggest nixing Autotomize and Rock Polish, so that the damage boost from attacking ahead of the opponent would be much rarer than in Band Dracovish's case.
I get that Fishious Rend is there for flavoring reasons, and I’d be all for it if the Reluvish line wasn’t quite so strong with it. The main problem isn’t outspeeding opponents, it’s punishing switch-ins and thus acting as a pseudo-trapper in the same vein as Stakeout users. Even without the Speed boost, Fishious Rend boosted by Strong Jaw has a base power of 127.5 coming off of a base 130 Attack. Basically, it’s akin to a Wicked Blow coming off of Urshifu-Single-Strike (which is banned in Natdex OU) or a Close Combat off of a Conkeldurr, except with Stakeout.
Perhaps we could say that Water-type Ice Fang/Fire Fang clone “Fishious Bite” (with the effect changed to, say, -1 Attack instead of a status condition) is the original move and Fishious Rend only arose due to the mix-and-match nature of the Cara Liss Experiment, in the vein of “they tried to play God and ended up with an abomination”. That gives a much more reasonable base power and you can keep Autotomize and Rock Polish.
Or it could be a Psychic Fangs clone that removes something like entry hazards or weather, or a Leech Life clone that’s also a biting move, or whatever. It’s your submission, I’m just making a suggestion. The choice is yours!
A bit of a non sequitur here, but I have to ask this because it’s been bugging me all day: How do you pronounce Hp’lamaroth?
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I like "Fishious Fangs" as a Water-type Psychic Fangs clone, actually - and given that Dunkleosteus' bite is basically an armor-piercing move, what if it removed protection moves instead of barrier ones in the vein of Psychic Fangs? I have yet to see that many moves that affect the Protection category, so having this mechanic be a thing could be interesting. I'd still get rid of Autotomize at the minimum though because it doesn't make sense with the flavor, though maybe Rock Polish could stay if we go with retyped Psychic Fangs route. Still, the switch-in punish is definitely worth considering, so I suppose you can never be too careful with regards to keeping the raw BP more reasonable. So anti-protection Psychic Fangs clone it is!
Is that why Habanecro has Shadow Tag?
(it’s fine, no need to change it, it can run other stuff)
It is heavily flavor-based, yes, but there still has to be a certain level of reasonable balance. This is eventually going to be playable, after all; I’d prefer we don’t have any majorly unhealthy threats right as the mod kicks off.
Yeah, and but do keep in mind that flavor =/= balance, so we should at least try to tone down some ridiculously overpowered threats shall some of them managed to slipped under our radar during testing. (We definitely do not need to change Shadow Tag from Habanecro since it have other Abilities.]Is that why Habanecro has Shadow Tag?
(it’s fine, no need to change it, it can run other stuff)
It is heavily flavor-based, yes, but there still has to be a certain level of reasonable balance. This is eventually going to be playable, after all; I’d prefer we don’t have any majorly unhealthy threats right as the mod kicks off.
Especially since well, this is Regional Evolutions, with several of them being a stage further than the usually one-or-two staged evolutionary line like Obstagoon or Cursola or Sirfetch'd or Mr. Rime (and cousins). It's only one Galarian form, but Galarian Darmanitan ends up being banned in OU, so we should not be surprised if we end up having super-overbearing threats in here or Regional Variants Pet Mod as well.
Question for transwiththeplans:
I see that the Alolan Falinks line’s secondary typing is “Variable”. Looking at the submission for it, you say its typing changes depending on which of the four of them is the leader; I’m assuming they change between Electric, Grass, Fairy and Psychic because those are the four Tapu/Terrain typings. My question is, how does it change between these typings? If it changes during battle, that probably requires a custom Ability in the vein of something like “Mimicry but only for secondary typing”. If it’s an in-battle form change like Castform’s, making a Forecast clone for Terrain will work. If it’s an out-of-battle form change that occurs from, say, being on a specific island in Alola or using a certain item in-game, you don’t need to make any new Ability. Regardless of whether the form change occurs in battle or out of it, if there’s a form change at all, each form should be detailed separately to prevent confusion.
I see that the Alolan Falinks line’s secondary typing is “Variable”. Looking at the submission for it, you say its typing changes depending on which of the four of them is the leader; I’m assuming they change between Electric, Grass, Fairy and Psychic because those are the four Tapu/Terrain typings. My question is, how does it change between these typings? If it changes during battle, that probably requires a custom Ability in the vein of something like “Mimicry but only for secondary typing”. If it’s an in-battle form change like Castform’s, making a Forecast clone for Terrain will work. If it’s an out-of-battle form change that occurs from, say, being on a specific island in Alola or using a certain item in-game, you don’t need to make any new Ability. Regardless of whether the form change occurs in battle or out of it, if there’s a form change at all, each form should be detailed separately to prevent confusion.
Oh, the variable is dependent on the Nectar used. It’s the same situation as Oricorio.
Neat idea. I’m a fan of it. Since that’s the case, we have to detail all the forms of Falinks-Alola and Falitotem. Even though they’re basically the same outside of typing, so are Oricorio’s forms and it still has each one listed separately. Maybe the forms could be named after the Island Guardians (Falitotem-Koko, Falitotem-Lele, etc.) or the islands themselves (Falinks-Melemele, etc.)? And perhaps they should have a physical Revelation Dance clone that changes based on their secondary typing?
On the note of flavor-based changes, how do you like the idea of giving Spectral Thief (or a Spectral Thief clone) to Mr. Crime, so it can steal stats in addition to items? It definitely fits the “shadow thief” Arsène Lupin motif.
Again, I’m just spitballing ideas here. You don’t have to change anything you don’t want to.
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Falinks / Falitotem - (island name) works for me.
Now, about Mr. Crime's move- I'd imagine it'd be a combination of Snatch and Spectral Thief, where it steals the status move and then deals damage.
Changes accepted, but would you like Mr. Crime's signature move to be Fairy or Dark? Mr. Crime still doesn't have any physical Fairy STAB unless I recalled things wrong.
I don’t think it should get strong physical Fairy STAB. It’s got Prankster Parting Shot and Hypnosis, after all, so Dark-types are going to be the main answer to it.
So this means signature move be Dark-type, got it. I understands why is this the case.
BTW transwiththeplans, how would you like to call that Spectral Thief clone (steals the status move before dealing damage) for Mr. Crime?