Metagame np: PU Stage 2 - Let's Go Crazy (Crown Tundra is out)

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Haven't really played in a while, but just a minor post on one of my favorite lower tiered Pokemon to use in Sawk. Feel like this mon will be pretty stupid to deal with. Incredibly high attack even preventing Pokemon that may resist Close Combat from freely switching in on it, solid coverage (Knock, Stone Edge, Poison Jab, Earthquake, Ice/Thunder Punch), great abilities, and a solid speed tier. Sawk easily becomes one of the most threatening (if not THE most) wallbreakers, and revenge killers (although less threatening) available. I personally don't seeing this mon lasting a long time here.
 
Well, the final phase of the first DLC cascade has finally made its way down to PU, and it's a bit of a whimper compared to the previous shifts. Given how many mons came to inhabit NU last shift, I was kind of expecting more to drop off; then again, I did think that most of what dropped to NU were genuinely good in that tier. Still, this does make things easier for me, so without further ado, we cover the last stage of this phenomenon-

Alcremie: Outside of the potentially banworthy stuff, Alcremie stands out to me as probably one of the best mons to fall this shift. PU is not exactly swarming with Fairy types, and the two it does have are significantly distinct from Alcremie. Crem is a great CM sweeper, with Recover allowing it to stick around against anything lacking enough power or a SE button. It can go CM + 3 Attacks, CM/STAB/Stored Power/Recover or even mono-attacker thanks to Acid Armor. STAB + Psychic/Stored Power will probably be sufficient in most scenarios, but it does also possess Mystical Fire to blast through the few Steels in the tier. You could also do a Specs set, although I'd say CM is probably the better option. Just an all around solid CM sweeper.

Avalugg: The sturdy wall of Ice that it is, Avalugg probably would have preferred it if there weren't so many physical attackers with SE STAB. That's not to say it's bad though; even with those problematic STABs, Avalugg finds use as a physically sturdy Spinner, able to get Spin off reliably thanks to Sturdy + Boots, with Recover to stay healthy. It's last two move slots are probably best given to Toxic and Body Press (not a lot of Poisons right now); you could drop Toxic for Iron Defense, but Lugg's spin duties mean it naturally invites Ghost types in, so you probably want something to hit them on the switch. Maybe you could also do something with Avalanche? Lugg is good at what it does, but between a bevy of weaknesses and pitiful special bulk, don't expect it to top the charts.

G. Corsola: Gorsola brings its primed talent for shutting down physical threats between Wisp/Scald and Strength Sap, the latter also providing it more than sufficient recovery. It also serves as a reliable Rocker or potential Haze user to really screw over would be sweepers and Night Shade to dish out consistent damage. Sure, its passivity and low Speed make it Taunt bait, but that's really its only flaw. Unlike MZ, I don't think I'd say it's banworthy, but it is definitely very hard to crack given PU's power level.

Cramorant: Let's face facts: Cramorant is a gimmick. It is that way by design. That doesn't mean it's bad, though. I imagine it'll just do what it always does- STABs, Defog and Roost with Boots, and use its ability for team support. Cram doesn't really change much, but it doesn't really need to.

Cursola: "Yes, we need to ban Gorsola ASAP!" .. Yeah, Cursola definitely hates being in the same tier as its pre-evo, since Gorsola's utility completely outclasses the power Cursola brings to the table, especially since PU already has several good offensive Ghosts who don't instantly fold to one physical hit. Cursola's one role is as a suicide Rocker for more offensive teams, utilizing the gimmicky Weak Armor + Endure combo to actually outspeed- something. Theoretically. Overall, Cursola is just too specific compared to Gorsola and Runerigus, so it might not be able to stay even PU.

Ferroseed: Ferrothorn Jr. isn't too hard to figure out. It will probably go Spikes over Rocks since they aren't as common, only shared by Crustle, Roselia and fellow drops Qwilfish and Pincurchin. Leech Seed is also a must since Seed needs Eviolite and so has no recovery otherwise. Knock Off remove items, while Gyro Ball provides STAB. Seed isn't as consistent a defensive staple as Mareanie, but it definitely has its place.

Galvantula: So, Ribombee didn't leave NU this shift, but this is still a rather odd drop to see. Galvantula- is going to be pretty great in PU; forget Webs, with Galv's speed tier it outpaces all but three mons sans Scarf, allowing it to be one speedy Specs user. Sure, the presence of Jolteon/Manectric and Ground types mean it can't just spam CE Thunder, but its secondary STAB Bug Buzz and Energy Ball allow it sufficient versatility on the attacking front. The final slot goes to either Webs (which are still good, mind you; they're just not as essential to Galv's success) or Volt Switch for pivoting. Again, not being able to spam its main STAB endlessly means it probably won't be broken, but I see this being easy A range.

Jolteon: The new fastest mon in the tier, Jolteon is a decent Specs user, but I don't think it'll be that great. While its SpA is naturally greater than the aforementioned Galvantula, I think Galv outclasses it do to reliably strong STAB and actually having relevant coverage, plus Webs utility. Heck, I'd also say Manectric is better since at least Fire coverage is useful for some mons like A. Dugtrio. Jolteon's Speed will probably be enough to give it a niche, especially when paired with Pincurchin, but I don't see him being that good.

Pincurchin: Well, it would seem the higher tiers are all insistent on sleeping on Pincurchin; their loss. Spikes support is well appreciated, as is double status in Discharge and Scald; as tempting as guaranteed double-power Rising Voltage is, I prefer Discharge since it furthers Pin's support capabilities and still hits pretty hard. Recover grants it longevity on balance while Memento serves to help start a sweep on HO teams. Hopefully the power level is finally low enough for Pin to be truly appreciate.

Quagsire: Unaware of where it is, Quagsire is another mon that does what is always does; dual status in Scald/Toxic, Earthquake for standard damage, Recover to stave off death. Unaware remains the better ability since PU doesn't have that many Water types, forming an obnoxious anti-sweeper core on defensive teams alongside Gorsola. It won't be unbreakable, since unlike Water, Grass types aren't in short supply here, and with Quag flopping around everywhere, Grass types as a whole will probably get better.

Qwilfish: Qwilfish is naturally suited as a suicide lead for offensive teams; set Spikes or TSpikes, status in Scald or Poison moves, Taunt to shut down opposing hazard leads, and if you can fit it Explosion or Destiny Bond to get an early trade; also Intimidate allows it some further usage if you can manage to preserve it. More defensive team don't really need it when Mareanie already exists and is far more durable. It could also see use as a Swift Swim user on manual rain teams, but I don't know enough about manual weather to tell if that would be viable.

Runerigus: Finally free from the shadows of Golurk and Mudsdale/Rhydon, Runerigus finally distinguishes itself as a physically sturdy Rocker and user of Poltergeist. This freedom is most apparent in Rune finally being versatile; other than Poltergeist and Earthquake, there's a whole variety of moves Rune could be running. Stealth Rock or Toxic Spikes for hazard setting, Body Press or Rock Slide/Stone Edge as a back up attack, Wisp to directly spread status, Memento once Rune has done its job, Trick for a possible Band set (not sure about this, but it does have potential), possibly even Trick Room for that niche style. Honestly, I find this guy to be the most interesting of the drops largely because of its diverse potential.

Sawk: Well, it's hard to disagree on what is quickly becoming the consensus on this one; Sawk stands head and shoulders above the other drop as the "well, he's not going to be staying too long" pick. Sawk, especially with added speed from a Scarf, is just a nuclear threat by PU standards, throwing out those hands with Close Combat, smacking would be Ghost switch ins with Knock Off, and the options to nail Poison with Earthquake, Flying types with Ice Punch and the non-Mawile Fairies with Poison Jab. Of course, if one has speed control (such as the recently added Webs Galvantula), then you suddenly have the option to swap Scarf for the disgusting power of Band and wreck shit even harder. Bulk Up is also possible, although the power of Choice sets is usually too good to pass up. If anything should get banned, it's Sawk.

Silvally- Dark: Oh, Silvally, have you ever been a tiering headache this gen. DarkVally looks primed to be a top-tier PU threat given the relative lack of competition from other Dark types, the solid option of Iron Head for Fairies and Psychic Fangs for Fighting types, pivoting in U-turn or Parting Shot, and a solid speed tier (+ possible Flame Charge). It's definitely not as overwhelming as Sawk considering its item restriction, but you'd better hope you have at least one Dark answer as long as it's here.

And with that, the first wave of DLC cascade comes to a close- just in time for the next drop later this month. Dear Lord, next shift is going to be a hot mess.
 
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MZ

And now for something completely different
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Bouffallant, Exeggutor, Klinklang, Kangaskhan, Silvally-Poison, and Silvally-Bug are unbanned from PUBL.
I want to just briefly talk about what justifies an unban because this saw a lot of Discord discussion today. We voted on the entirety of PUBL but mostly focused on freeing Pokemon that we thought had the best odds to be balanced. The idea is that hey, we just banned Klinklang, but there's a lot of new checks that mean it won't be so overbearing to figure out checks for, I go from having almost no defensive options to things like Runerigus and Quagsire and I think people generally get the idea. The flipside to that is that we will be having another quickvote this Sunday for immediate quickbans, which means if we free something and it turns out to be completely busted there is the option to immediately re-ban. The counterpoint though is that if we free too much broken stuff it will be more hard to tell if something like, say, Galvantula is really a problem when there's Butterrfree and Arctozolt running around. This incentivizes not freeing things that we consider almost certainly broken if they're reintroduced and "wasting" our time with dealing with their presence. That's a really subjective line to draw and why we had views ranging from sg's "we can free everything it's fine" to "let's not waste our time on most of this stuff" takes from HJAD or Sam I Yam.

This doesn't even touch the Silvallies and how best to deal with them, I'm way too sick to want to type more but they are an absolutely excellent place to start if you want to try to share your meta thoughts. Not that the drops aren't too.

Again, we will have a quickban vote this Sunday!
 
Any chance there will be another vote once the Meta stabilizes? Most of the PUBL stuff were clear cut broken but I still think as the metagame stabalizes we can afford to free a couple more vallies like grass or electric as well as perrsker which was a split vote and something I personally see as manageable now
 

jcbc

lechonk is so cute
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey PU i've been investing a lot of time with the tier as of lately and as i promised to my man tlenit (yes, i know it took me 4 days lol i'm sorry bro was just lazy lmao) i'm going to post my thoughts on how the tier looks. I would like to start by saying that i didn't liked how the tier looked pre shifts at all, it had so many threats to cover with very mediocre answers around, the rimes being broken, a lack of good answers to liepard making throh be everywhere, which resulted to also be an amazing pokemon; everything was just yikes and building was a headache. I'm very excited to see how the tier develops after the shifts which are awesome to have specially with this unbans which imo where needed. But let's talk about some of the mons that got into the tier.

SHIFTS MONS

:alcremie: - Is this finally a good dark resist? Can't believe we finally got one! Now with jokes aside, Alcremie came to be an awesome pokemon, it has bulk for days to stop threatning fighting and dark types pokemon such as throh and liepard, but not only that, it can be a really good wallbreaker and/or sweeper. From CM, to a stored power sweeper with acid armor, aswell as the defensives sets without forgetting 3 atks recovers; makes alcremie so versatile. Mystical Fire ans Psychic gives it perfect coverage.

:cursola: - Cursola is pretty one dimensional but its so good at its job. Excellent rocker that can move to be a sweeper if you play around it careless. Weak armor paired with Endure and a Focus Sash having into account how good the coverage it has (Hydro Pump and Earth Power mainly) makes it to be threatning for a lot of teams, but is not as if it didnt had counters or checks, things like bouffalant, liepard to name some. But I can't try to talk about this pokemon without mentioning how it doesnt really add something defensively, it works the best in HO builds, for balance you'd rather go with runerigus and for fat/stall its pre evo G.corsola but we'll see; i'm honestly very high on this pokemon tho.

:avalugg: - The table has one and only one job but hell it does it well. The ability of stomaching physical hits of the table is uncomparable in the tier. It also adds more hazard control options and an option to hit very hard with Bpress and Avalanche. Sadly with the additions of so many ghosts and a lot of the physical attackers being fighting types will the ice wall have success on the tier?

:ferroseed: - Ayeee another steel type!!!... that still loses to broken rimes :facepalm: (fr tho can we ban those 2 already?). This aside, Ferroseed is a very good add, it has a notable bulk that is rather helpful aswell as being a very good hazard setter capable of keeping in check a lot vast majority of the tier to the point that i could see things like alcremie, kangaskhan, the silvallys or things like that to run fire coverage just for it.

:kangaskhan: - Talking about kangaskhan... hjad favourite mon is back, can't wait to see some kanga spikes teams rolling. This mon needs no explanation tbh; if you were around this tier in SM you already know what this does. One of the questionable pokemons to me since there's not much you can do as there's no actual safe switchin to it. The speed tier is cery good and it doesnt suffer from a 4MSS at all since a set of fake out/double edge/fire punch/earthquake already covers everything. But maybe things like runerigus, ferroseed and stunfisk to name some makes it alright to handle.

:quagsire: - The saviour of klinklang and therefore the tier from the ice types reing. Quagsire is the pokemon that this tier needed, not only it's a good pokemon for silvallys but also for recently unbanned klinklang. This mon is very dimensional in fact that it has one role to fullfill and it can't actually come out of it, but yet still can keep teams in checks rather easily thanks to its overall bulk.

:galvantula: - *checks the bug resists on the tier* .... *checks how many of those can eat a thunder or a Energy Ball*... Uh oh... Broken mon alert, i repeat, broken mon alert. I'd say the spider is just to good and powerful for PU as it has not a safe switchin as per se. Having hdb makes it very hard to punish with hazards and theres not much in the tier that can revengekill it.

:jolteon: - Another electric type woohoo, this time it's a very good one tho. Jolteon FINALLY DROPPED (s/o the nu ladder for holding it for 5 months), an unrivaled speed tier added to a decent spa stats makes jolteon to be a threat you need to think about when building. But does this mean Jolteon is broken? No, i don't think so. Not having hidden powers really sucks for it, and while you could argue gimmicks like weather ball in rain to make it be able to hit grounds, it just doesnt have enough coverage to get pass grass types such as appletun or roselia.

:qwilfish: - Oh boy, i can't wait to use this little spiky fish. It can work several ways and all of them will be solid, being a spikes support setter or a rain sweeper you can bet qwilfish will put on work for sure. Rain one specially very scary to face since it has powerful stabs with an awesome speed tier that can get to be an issue for some teams that are not prepared for it after an SD.

:sawk: - Do i need to talk about sawk for real? Well... ig i will...
Classes of how to win with sawk:
Step 1: Catch once their alcremie with poison jab.
Step 2: Keep cleaning the game until you win.
So yeah, now for real, can we get this pokemon banned asap? It doesn't have ways to be handled at all, Bulk Up, Scarf and Banded are all to powerful.

:cramorant: - Okey so hot take here but as long as you hit lol (70% acc moves are cringe) this pokemon doesn't have actual checks but you can counter it offensively with one of the electrics that we have in the tier. It can work as a defogger aswell with very much success as its bulk isnt bad at all. But is not the best addition of the shifts sadly because i like the mon.

:runerigus: - Very good rocker with amazing bulk and also adds Tspikes? Where do i sign! Runerigus is all that the tier could have asked for, it not only has the tools to handle all the physical threats of the tier but can also fire off power attacks as its base Atk isn't something that people should forget about that can make some offensive sets such as 3 atks TR or hell even Banded to be quiet a threat.

UNBANNED MONS

:silvally-bug:bug - I will start saying that i really think some of the other silvally forms could have been freed but this is definetly a good start tho. About bug one, it has one of the worst typing to use with multi-attack since pretty much all the rockers resist it, defensively isn't a good typing as per se either since it mainly checks fighting types but those have access to coverage that makes it not want to hard switch without scouting first. But not everything is bad ig, you can have fire/water coverage to hit those pokemons that would lile to switch such as runerigus or ferroseed for example. And another big thing about this vally form is that it adds a way to handle liepard easier altho who knows, we might see some NP sets come out. Overall i think that it's not busted at all and will make a good fit in the tier.

:exeggutor: - Exeggutor has HUGE raw power but idk... tier has got a lot of stuff to handle it, silvally bug being on the tier, ferroseed, klinklang and the ice types, more ghost types and liepard being here makes it ok to be. It opens up to more stypes and type of teams which is always welcomed tho. Future Sight and Teleport will make it the slowbro of PU but idt it will be broken at all.

:silvally-poison:poison - Same as Bug vally, poison isn't the best typing to have to use multi attack on and i could honestly keep talking about it but it would be pretty much the same things i said about bug one but changing one or two things; mainly on what can it check/counter and what checks/counters it.

:klinklang: - *Unpopular opinion alarm* Klinklang did nothing wrong to be banned, in fact it made the tier to be stable, but can't do nothing with that now as that's past and past can't be changed. Now that it's back we now have again a way to handle ice types partially well. Shift Gear sets will not be that good either as it got new checks added to old ones. I'm happy that this pokemon is back because it adds a lot to the tier being able to keep in check certain pokemons (old and new ones) that otherwise could probably be broken.

:bouffalant: - This boy did nothing wrong to be banned imo. :pikuh: Bouffalant just was banned based on hipotetic scenarios where as it would have no counters nor checks when it did have them. But oh well... It's back and while now it would face competition with kanga for a spot in teams if you want a normal pokemon they are far to acomplish the same job. Bouffalant helps a lot to keep checked pokemons as drifblim, gourgeist or lilligant quite easily. But it has checks to switch into its powerful attacks, specially now with all the ghosts types that has been added.

I'm excited to keep testing things out and overall i'm so happy with the course of actions of the council and can't wait to see how the meta develops with all this changes.
 
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So I've decided to also hop on and give a few of my thoughts about this tier-shift and the unbans:

:sawk:- Huge threat, will probably get banned (I seriously have no clue why NU gave this to us). It has immense power with choice band or life orb and can 2HKO almost all of the tier with CC+KO+EQ including Quagsire, with the exception of Runerigus, Dusclops, Gourgeist-Super and G-Corsola if it's timid, and defensive Silvally-Bug even if it's adamant. The other dangerous set is choice scarf which acts as a great revenge-killer, getting rid of the opponent's items and just doing a lot of damage.
Defensively, You don't really want it to take any hits but it most definitly can take a hit or two, and if you decide to run bulk up you can sit on physical threats for some time but you'll eventually get worn down due to the lack of relyable recovery or drain punch. revenge killing it is- on the other hand- a lot easier, due to Unfezant, Kadabra, G-Mime and Pinsir being very common scarfers.
All in all, while I do want strong breakers in pu, I feel like this Sawk is just too big for us. PUBL for you for the 2nd time in a row.

:cursola:- Being tied with Eternatus at 5th highest special atk is no joke. This dead coral hits HARD. Unfortunatly, it has very low hp, defense and speed, meaning it has a hard time getting a chance to actually attack. If you do get to do Something with it you have a plethora of moves to chose from- offensive and supportive. Ice Beam, Earth Power, Scald, Hydro Pump- the list goes on, with the added bonus of Stealth Rock, Strength Sap, WOW and Haze topping it off for a big threat that can surprise you with some support. On first glance it seems kind of one dimensional- but it actually isn't- you can tailor your Cursola to what your team needs.
Should probably get banned, but it's not as limiting as Sawk is.

:jolteon:- Specs and life orb are going to be it's main sets, and often paired with Pincurchin. Rising Voltage and Shadow Ball are all it really needs in this tier, hitting everything for at-least neutral damage except for Morpeko (but Morpeko is by no means checking Jolteon).
Jolteon can also explore a bit with HDB with Galvantula running loose, but it generally wants the added power from boosting items.
it's going to have some good competition with Galvantula and Manectric, but hey- why not run the three of them with Pincurchin and terrorise the whole tier?
Will probably get banned, though I would personally like it to stay.

I'm not going over every drop, these are just some initial thoughts after watching and battling in this new tier.
 
Simply put Galvantula seems too strong for PU. I haven't done a large amount of testing, but just from my initial impression it seems very busted. The focus sash set is fantastic for getting up webs and also shuts down any potential spinners/defoggers. Max sp. attack Galvantula easily beats Unfezant, Drifblim, Morpeko, and Rime. Not only that, it muscles out potential counters like Sandslash and Stunfisk thanks to energy ball/giga drain. This doesn't even begin to cover how good webs are in the current meta with all of these new powerful threats.

I don't wanna make sweeping assumptions due to my lack of playing for the past month or two, but right of the bat Galvantula seems like a big problem and is probably too powerful for PU.
 

Deleted User 350996

Banned deucer.
Some quick thoughts about the drops:

- Alcremie: a new fairy type looks like a really nice addition to the tier since we have a few here in PU. Excellent typing with good movepool and bulk, specs looks really fine but CM/CM + Acid Armor and Stored power is usable too I guess since its ability prevents Encore or Taunt.

- Avalugg: I'm surprised it dropped until here but anyway it's a solid option for stallish or defensive teams. Avalanche can hit Runerigus/Gourgeist (if they intend to block Rapin Spin) while Body Press hits hard most of other mons.

- Corsola-G: looks really annoying and certainly one of the biggest bulky mon of the tier, it should fit well in hazard stacking and stall teams. Really interesting movepool but I'd say it's manageable with Knock Off/Poltergeist all around.

- Cramorant: a fun mon to play with. Some months ago I fit it in my RU team and my set was Surf/Air Slash/Defog/Roost, with Rocky Helmet. It was not that good but not so mediocre actually, imo it's just that some similar mons do its things way better (such as Mantine).

- Cursola: tremendous Sp.Atk but mediocre bulk and terrible speed, even with Weak Armor. It has many options tho (suicide lead with sash and rocks, specs, bulkier versions with Colbur/Kasib/no item variants...).

- Ferroseed: well we all know what it does and it does it well although it's consequently easily predictable. It's nice to get a new Steel type I guess.

- Galvantula: it's honestly scary and I expect it to get banned. I'm actually surprised it's here but Vikavolt does it better in NU (well it's RU now so Galvantula might return NU next month I guess?). I'd quickban this imo.

- Jolteon: PU is the tier it deserves. Losing HP Ice/Grass is really annoying since its movepool wasn't so good. Rain players will certainly appreciate Jolteon tho!

- Pincurchin: it's back and electric terrain offer some interesting options; Jolteon and Manectric learn Rising Voltage btw.

- Quagsire: I've been used to see it drop and rise since ORAS, it's definitely a solid option for stuff like Klinklang or SubSD Bouff'.

- Qwilfish: it was in most of my teams last gen (such a good synergy with Mesprit) and it's back now. It has many support options and can even be played offensively on rain teams (it learns SD and has 95 Atk after all!).

- Runerigus: really interesting mon right here, it can check plenty of physical attackers and support the team with t-spikes and prevent Rapin Spin. I'm actually surprised it dropped here...

- Sawk: it's definitely broken imo. Band set is ridiculous and it can even run boots + Sturdy now so it can act as a revenge killer. I expect this thing to get quickbanned too...

- Darkvally: this mon also scares me but I look forward to see what he can do now.

Thanks for reading, see you around!
 
Galvantula is powrtful bit nowhete near broken. AV Hitmonchan, Roselia, Flareon, Carkol, Lickilicky, RestTalk Throh, TypeNull and a few other mons handle it nicely, half of them can set up on it!

It's not that strong without Specs or Orb and it's worn down far too quickly without Boots.

So far I'm not sure I want to see any of the new mons banned tbh, they all kind of check each other. Maybe Sawk.

Cursola is a fun wincon, Weak Armour/Petaya/Endure, Shadow Ball, Earth Power, Ice Beam sets up quite reliably and hits a solid speed tier, though it struggles to outspeed a lot of Scarfers. If you can squeeze in a second Weak Armour boost its even better. Here's a replay I just had where both Galvantula was not broken and Cursola cleaned up; https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8pu-1196905551


Edit: Klinklang is still broke af though btw
 
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Bag of Trixx

I like to call it a passion
is a Pre-Contributor
Howdy PU !

I really enjoyed theorizing some potential sets and sharing my initial thoughts on new drops/unbans last time - so like I did last shift, I'll continue to share what I've found along with the help of some people when it comes to testing, theorizing, and creating these ideas! I'd like to make this something I continue doing as well as wish to get a bit more involved with forums, and this to me is the best way I know how.

SORRY FOR THE LENGTHY READ, but I hope this helps some people who may be struggling to figure out what to do with all these new mons added to the tier or even helps put these mons into perspective in regards to the tier as a whole.

TL:DR -----
Sawk and Galvantula should be banned because as a duo, there is no competition for them to demolish the tier and their power levels are simply off the charts for PU to handle currently. But even individually, they are more than comfortable on their own with very limited switch-ins. But the fact that each of them possess the power, stats, incredible STABs, and offensive support to demolish every defensive and offensive check for each other just isn't a healthy combination the tier can withstand. Everything else seems relatively safe on paper, although Corsola-Galar (Gorsola :D) might be an issue eventually.

Pincurchin is also noteworthy in my eyes as something problematic and genuinely unhealthy for the PU meta-game. With its ability to effortlessly shut down an entire mechanic (RestTalk) just by being present in a game, as well as providing free nuclear-esque buffs to Electric types carrying Rising Voltage is just too much for the tier to handle. Especially considering many Electric types already have fantastic coverage as is and are naturally faster than everything in the tier, but getting a free nuke only makes it so they get past their non-immune checks that much more easily. However, Pincurchin I believe should be the one addressed and not the abusers themselves because Pincurchin is the one who actually makes the unhealthy mechanics even possible in the first place and manually having to set up terrain is not worthwhile.

Offensive special attackers seem to keep getting better and better, therefore defensive measures against them may be found a priority for the tier to address via unique Offensive SpDef mons once again.

Stall and Balance also look like actually promising playstyles for the tier now, which is great to see some new team dynamics.

Cramorant finally came home!

Jolteon is fast af lol




Alcremie is definitely one of the more highly anticipated drops as well as a controversial topic which was discussed in the PU chatroom earlier before writing this post (this was PRIOR to Silvally-Poison and Klinklang being unbanned) and I do support the idea that the hype for this is definitely warranted. However, I wouldn't go so far as to say controversial, especially after Silv-Poison and Klinklang rejoining the tier. This mon is definitely solid in its own right with excellent coverage and setup potential, recovery, great bulk as well as decent speed given what it wants to do as a bulky setup mon, but what separates this from its main competitor in Rapidash-Galar is that Rapidash more-so threatens the newest addition in Silvally-Poison due to naturally outspeeding it as well as cannot be poisoned. Those two points are critical for Rapidash-Galar's success in the tier. Alcremie on the other hand, does not have these attributes and could be seen as 2nd best to Rapidash. However, that does not deter Alcremie from being an excellent and resourceful bulky Calm Mind sweeper on Bulky Offense or Balance builds.

Defensive Calm Mind
(Alcremie) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Mystical Fire
- Recover
- Dazzling Gleam

This Alcremie set is designed to make use of its naturally high SpA and decent speed which can be manipulated to outpace some of its slower checks such as Mawile and can hit its Steel type switch-ins such as Klinklang for reliable damage. However, Alcremie not being faster than Klinklang means it cannot reliably stay in to get the 2HKO with Mystical Fire comparatively to Rapidash-Galar. However, with Alcremie's naturally higher bulk and Special Attack means it can abuse Calm Mind more easily once its faster checks and resists are gone. 144 Spe allows Alcremie to outspeed Adamant Mawile.

Calm Mind + 3 Attack
(Alcremie) (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Mystical Fire
- Draining Kiss

This set is definitely one of my more favorite sets I've tried and had quite a bit of success with in testing (although have not tried this vs a team with Silv-Poison or Klinklang, as I created this before they were announced so I'm not sure how well this implements into that meta, however neither one of them have recovery options so any chip vs them is great for Alcremie late-game). Life Orb is excellent to pair with this set because it ensures certain 3HKOs become 2HKOs and makes Alcremie far more threatening. Most notably, Sub BU Throh, Qwilfish, Roselia, and SpDef Flareon are 2HKOd from Psyshock and Mareanie also has a high chance of being 2HKOd. Furthermore, with a Life Orb and Modest nature ensure guaranteed OHKOs vs Offensive Mawile and Pawniard, and even OHKOs Offensive Klinklang after minimal chip damage. Mystical Fire is mandatory on this set for its ability to hit the Steels such as Klinklang, Mawile, and Pawniard. Draining Kiss is an interesting option here, because not only is it Alcremie's STAB here but it is the recovery option to mitigate the Life Orb, without giving up offensive pressure with Recover. 224 Spe allows Alcremie to outspeed Adamant Pawniard.

Calm Mind Stored Power
(Alcremie) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Stored Power
- Dazzling Gleam
- Recover

Similarly to what all of the other Stored Power users do in the tier, but Alcremie makes use of its higher Special Attack and even better Recovery Option as opposed to Morning Sun and Moonlight. Exact same EV spread as the Defensive Calm Mind set, but with Stored Power over Mystical Fire in order to make this Alcremie a more reliable win-con on some kind of Balance team that isn't pressured by the likes of Klinklang, possibly partnered with Stunfisk here. I also liked this idea on a possible semi-stall team and using this as one of the main win-cons for those kinds of teams, however Rapidash-Galar probably still does this better due to its ability to not be poisoned supports its longevity a bit more than Alcremie.

Specially Defensive
Alcremie (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Aroma Veil / Sweet Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 208 SpD / 48 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Recover
- Mystical Fire
- Dazzling Gleam
- Psyshock

I think Alcremie might also be able to pull off a specially defensive set rather effectively as well for a lot of reasons. Mainly since Alcremie has a naturally high SpDef and access to Recover. For an offensive mon, Alcremie I believe has the highest SpDef in the tier (outside of like Dusknoir). However, in tandem with the natural coverage and access to Mystical Fire; Alcremie can check many special attackers with this set. Although Aroma Veil is a stronger ability naturally with the ability to block Encore and Taunt; Sweet Veil is still a good alternative here in order to have a dedicated Lilligant/Exeggcutor/Sleep check. Psyshock is definitive on this set because of how naturally strong Alcremie is, it is able to 2HKO SpDef Roselia without any investment. 48 Spe is here for outspeeding Defensive Roselia.

~~~~
Other options I tried are Acid Armor + Calm Mind, but with the implementation of several Dark types in the tier, as well as Klinklang being added back, and on top of that it still needs to fit Recover means that this set seems highly difficult to pull off. Flame Orb was something considered on the Stored Power set in order to prevent being Toxic'd, but the lack of Leftovers was too crippling.



The table has finally made its appearance in PU this gen and will definitely be an appreciated physical tank and another form of hazard control which also has recovery options. Given Heavy-Duty Boots also means Avalugg does not mind its horrid typing as much since it doesn't have to worry about hazards and on top of that can Recover in order to maintain its Sturdy. Avalugg is a straightforward mon who is rather limited as to what it does, but does so effectively, especially given its new toy in Body Press. There might be some kind of unique play with Avalugg of trying to make use of its naturally high Attack with Curse or even an offensive Boots set, but I really do not see the table deterring from its standard ways from past generations or even in the tiers it was in prior to the drops.

The Table
(Avalugg) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Body Press / Earthquake
- Avalanche

This will most likely be the standard for Avalugg because it makes use of everything Avalugg wants to make use of. Access to reliable recovery, hazard control further supported with its ability to threaten most of the Ghosts in the tier with its STAB Avalanche meaning they risk trying to spinblock, immunity to hazards making full use of Sturdy every time it is at full HP, and even has Body Press to threaten a whole lot of the Ice resists in the tier such as Klinklang and Mr. Rime. Offensive Mr. Rime for example takes half from Body Press due to Avalugg's monstrous Def stat. Although Avalugg does offensively threaten the most used Stealth Rocker in the tier being Stunfisk, the table needs to be weary of taking a Toxic or Rocky Helmet damage (since Avalanche is a contact move and a negative priority move, meaning there is no point in trying to speed-creep for Stunfisk) because by doing so, this will mitigate Avalugg's overall longevity and make Sturdy useless if it takes the Toxic. Earthquake could also be swapped over Body Press for Qwilfish or Heatmor since those can prevent Avalugg's Recover via Taunt.

Mirror Coat Lure
(Avalugg) @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Avalanche
- Mirror Coat

In order to cause less confusion in alternative move options on the first set, I decided to share this one as a separate set since the 4th move causes an entirely different tactic for Avalugg's playstyle from not just being a physical behemoth, but also as a special lure from the likes of Mr. Rime, Mr. Mime-Galar, Heatmor, or mainly any special attacker since Avalugg has such pitiful SpDef. However, with Study and Heavy-Duty Boots, this means Avalugg can almost always guarantee this strategy to work with some good predictions. Same EV spread as before, but the Defense isn't just invested for Avalugg's physical tanking prowess, but more-so it doesn't interfere with special attacks doing potentially less damage and Mirror Coat misses out on some important KOs vs weaker special attackers thinking they are safe to fire off such as Defensive Politoed.

~~~~
Some other moves that seemed good on Avalugg, but were troubling to fit at times were Roar and Toxic, but having those could be more useful if the 4th move isn't as demanding to be either Body Press, EQ, or Mirror Coat.


Corsola-Galar is yet another bulky Ghost, however this one has far more supportive options than some of its competitors such as Gourgeist-Super and Dusknoir. Corsola-Galar also provides the tier with another Rocker, which is heavily appreciated but more importantly opens the door for even more Balance builds and some Stall builds to really shine in the PU meta-game. Furthermore, Corsola-Galar is also a good addition for its ability to check both sides of the offensive spectrum comfortably, even without investment in one of those stats and sometimes still checking weaker mons even after having its Eviolite is removed because Corsola is just that bulky naturally.

I am a little worried that Corsola-Galar's presence might be a bit centralizing on a very well-built Stall team assuming Balance looks like it'll finally take over the tier, however Corsola is extremely one-dimensional. With that being said though, some builds could still struggle getting past this one trick pony just due to the sheer tanking capabilities this thing has assuming it never lost its Eviolite. Removing Corsola's Eviolite should always be a priority for the opponent and a team that doesn't have Knock Off support will inevitably lose to Corsola-Galar over time, or at the very least have an extremely difficult time getting past this. With that being said, I am still happy that several new team dynamics are implemented just off of first-glance with this mon paired with several of the other drops as well as current-tier contenders.

Specially Defensive Strength Sap
Corsola-Galar @ Eviolite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Shade
- Strength Sap
- Will-O-Wisp
- Stealth Rock / Haze / Whirlpool

This set is entirely designed to make Corsola-Galar tank both sides of the physical and offensive sides by investing in SpDef, but pairing it with both Will-O-Wisp and Strength Sap in order to check most physical attackers in the tier. Night Shade is the only recommended attack since Corsola has no offensive presence whatsoever, but still allows Corsola-Galar to at least threaten with set-in-stone damage reliably. Stealth Rock is the 4th move because Corsola-Galar should have virtually no problems ever getting hazards up since most teams will need to switch into something in order to threaten Corsola-Galar. However if the team has Rocks already, Haze can be an excellent addition on a Stall team or even Whirlpool could perhaps be nice to trap and 1v1 something such as Swords Dance Rapidash-Galar or even Klinklang with a little luck via Cursed Body and Will-O-Wisp since Strength Sap will not lower its attack due to Clear Body.

~~~~
BTW it's Gorsola !!!


FINALLY!!! I might be biased, but this is personally the most exciting mon out of the drops for me just because Cramorant is the coolest mon introduced in Sword/Shield and I have patiently been waiting for it to come home to PU ever since its release.

With that out of the way, Cramorant is definitely a neat addition to the tier for its ability to provide even more hazard control backed with its ability to offensively punish Stunfisk unlike the premiere PU bird Unfezant. On top of this, Cramorant has interesting coverage options further supported by decent offensive potential and a respectable Speed of 85. Not to mention the unique ability in Gulp Missile providing Cramorant multiple opportunities to further threaten revenge-killers since they aren't safe to attack after Cramorant clicked Surf (or Dive but that isn't a good move). Cramorant I also think could make use of its coverage by running some sort of Mixed Attacker set or even fully specially offensive utlitizing a Life Orb or some soft of offensively boosting item since Cramorant does not have access to Nasty Plot or any way to boost its stats naturally. However, Cramorant definitely seems to be a good addition to the tier for its unique way to threaten multiple commonly used threats in the tier being Gourgeist and Throh and still is able to hit Ground types without being threatened too much by them such as Sandslash.

In case anyone is not aware how Cramorant's ability works: after clicking Surf/Dive and depending on Cramorant's HP stat (either above 50% or below 50%) will depend on what Cramorant has in its mouth for Gulp Missile.

If above 50%, Gulp Missile will pull Arrokuda immediately after clicking Surf/Dive and the opponent's attack (either physical or special) hits Cramorant -- the opponent will take 25% and receive -1 Defense.
If below 50%, Gulp Missile will pull Pikachu immediately after clicking Surf/Dive and the opponent's attack (either physical or special) hits Cramorant -- the opponent will take 25% and receive Paralysis.

NOTE: Gulp Missile does not damage Magic Guard mons such as Kadabra, but still does the -1 defense or paralysis. And Gulp Missile will also change Cramorant's form behind a Substitute, but WILL NOT activate after being attacked until the sub is popped because the substitute took the attack, not Cramorant specifically. Once the sub is popped and Cramorant is then attacked, Gulp Missile will throw the Arrokuda or Pikachu.

Offensive Defog
Cramorant @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Gulp Missile
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Hurricane
- Surf

Cramorant's excellent typing allows it to threaten several meta-relevant mons with just its STABs alone including Gourgeist, Throh, Sandslash, and Stunfisk and this sets it apart from its competition in the likes of Unfezant since that mon cannot touch Sandslash or Stunfisk without risking Rocky Helmet chip or Static respectively. Because of this unique trait that only Cramorant has, it can afford to Defog quite freely at times due to offensively pressuring the aforementioned mons. However, Cramorant is not very strong and does not have access to U-turn, therefore it relies on things getting chipped down quite a bit before its able to beat down what it offensively checks, such as Stunfisk not being OHKOd by Surf but offensively threatens back with Discharge. Also, because it's reliant on Heavy-Duty Boots to further its longevity as a Defogger, this means Cramorant does not have a way to offensively boost its damage output since it has no setup moves or items to pair with it.

Mixed Attacker
Cramorant @ Life Orb
Ability: Gulp Missile
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Roost
- Superpower
- Hurricane
- Surf

This set is designed for Cramorant to be able to make use of its excellent coverage option in Superpower as a way to threaten some of its defensive checks such as Ferroseed and Lapras as well as some offensive checks like Morpeko. Life Orb provides Cramorant that extra bit of firepower needed to warrant its offensive potential; such as being able to OHKO Morpeko on the switch and also do more than half to SpDef Boots Lapras. Hurricane and Surf are Cramorant's primary forms of damage output since they pair so well together offensively against the tier and Roost is necessary for Cramorant to mitigate the Life Orb damage and provide a way to nullify Stealth Rock damage since it is no longer Heavy-Duty Boots.

Choice Specs
Cramorant @ Choice Specs
Ability: Gulp Missile
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Hurricane
- Roost
- Air Slash


Cursola is a dangerously powerful addition to the tier, bolstering an astronomical base 145 Special Attack backed by several coverage options and recovery. On top of this, Cursola has a very strong offensive typing for the tier and has Calm Mind in order to further enhance its offensive potential. However, Cursola faces stiff competition from several other Ghosts in the tier because Cursola's major drawback is its abysmal Speed. This can be helped with its abilty Weak Armor, and in tandem with Strength Sap, this could provide Cursola a way of mitigating the Defense drops whilst also gaining HP. Alteratively, Cursola can just be an insane wallbreaker for the tier by holding a Choice Specs due to its extremely limited switch-ins, mainly Type: Null and Silvally-Dark. This mon is definitely abusable in many ways and for certain will be devastating against teams not prepping for it. Cursola is going to be a high-risk high-reward mon assuming it is played to the best of its abilities.

Cursola, I find to be potentially too much for the tier offensively. Its movepool, coverage options, and insane damage output with very few defensive checks in a meta with several other prominent special attackers means that special defensive counterplay is going to be pushed to the test as well as might struggle to keep up with the dominance that special attackers may inevitably have on the tier. Type: Null, Silvally-Dark, Vullaby, and Kangaskhan are some of the very few mons I see who can actually switch into this behemoth, at least on paper. However the argument of Cursola's Speed preventing it from getting multiple hits off in sequence could be what prevents it from going over the top, but I still think this mon might be crazy.

However, I do like the implementation Cursola has though in potentially further developing a player's situational awareness and predicting skills not just as the Cursola user but as the opponent. Knowing when to click the right move and knowing when to make the correct switch are pivotal in developing a player's skills and Cursola is something that will help enhance that.

Special Wallbreaker
Cursola @ Choice Specs
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 80 HP / 252 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Psychic / Hex

This set is designed for Cursola to abuse its insane coverage options and hit mostly everything it wants to hit bar Type: Null and bulky specially defensive Normal types or certain Ghost resists. Earth Power is mandatory for being able to OHKO Mawile and Pawniard on the switch, meaning they cannot Knock Off the Choice Specs. Ice Beam is excellent supportive coverage in order to hit Ghost and Ground immunes such as Unfezant. Psychic is also excellent coverage in order to threaten Throh from wanting to to switch in and Knock Off, but Hex could also be used in tandem with Thunder Wave support since Cursola is extremely slow. 176 Spe allows Cursola to outspeed slow base 50s.

Strength Sap + Weak Armor
Cursola @ Power Herb
Ability: Weak Armor
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Meteor Beam
- Shadow Ball
- Earth Power
- Strength Sap

This set is more-so a gimmick, but ultimately sounds really fun if pulled off effectively. Meteor Beam + Power Herb allow Cursola to get a SpA boost as well as become immune to Poltergeist and Strength Sap in tandem with Weak Armor give Cursola a way to boost its Speed and somewhat mitigate the Defense drops through Strength Sap.


Ferroseed is another Spiker and Rocker added to the tier, granted with an incredible defensive typing in tandem with Eviolite and Leech Seed support for longevity. Ferroseed also has a ton of other support options such as Knock Off, Thunder Wave, Toxic, and Worry Seed. What I've noticed though is that Ferroseed isn't a replacement for other bulky Grass types in the tier. Teams cannot throw Ferroseed on them and expect it to do what Gourgeist or Appletun do. Even Roselia, another Grass type with Spikes is not comparable to Ferroseed because all other bulky Grasses do different things in this tier and Ferroseed can be difficult to fit on teams. Instead, I feel Ferroseed is a specific mon that can only fit on certain teams who can greatly appreciate its defensive capabilities alongside its hazards being paramount for the team's success. But that is not to take away from Ferroseed's success; because although it cannot fit on every team, usually Ferroseed is irreplaceable on the teams it finds itself on.

Defensive Hazard Setter
Ferroseed @ Eviolite
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Gyro Ball / Protect


Galvantula is an incredible addition to the PU tier who potentially opens up another alternative for team dynamics with its unique Sticky Web support. However, where Galvantula truly shines is its diverse offensive movepool and incredible natural Speed and Special Attack with pivoting options and threatens quite a majority of the tier because of this. Compound Eyes Thunder is ridiculous on its own but the fact it has the breaking potential to bust through a majority of the Grass types who would otherwise resist this such as Appletun, Galvantula can handle via Bug Buzz. Also, Galvantula further supports the VoltTurn dynamic that PU adores with a Volt Switch user who doesn't care about Ground types all too much thanks to Energy Ball. Galvantula is also an excellent breaker on its own now thanks to Heavy-Duty Boots, aiding the spider in its longevity which will ultimately cause an annoyance for the opponent in terms of having to deal with this. Because of Boots, Galv can very safely revenge-kill a majority of the tier with little effort simply because of how strong its STABs and coverage are in tandem with each other.

In my opinion, Galvantula poses a major issue for PU because of the dominance it can have in a multitude of games. Galvantula on its own provides so much momentum for the user that will inevitably overwhelm its opponents; especially considering nothing safely resists Galvantula without allowing a Volt Switch into another threat, thus causing a domino effect. On top of this, Galvantula doesn't even need to attack every turn in order to support its team in such an advantageous way and that's because it has Sticky Web. Galvantula can either threaten offensively with its incredible coverage, or support other teammates' efforts into breaking the opponent's team until everything is within range of Galvantula since Galvantula outspeeds naturally a majority of the meta-game even without Sticky Web.

Offensive Sticky Web
Galvantula @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Thunder / Volt Switch
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball / Volt Switch

This set proposes the idea of Sticky Webs being introduced into the tier on a level that no other Sticky Web setter has ever been able to do for PU and that is providing offensive capabilities as the setter itself. Galvantula's incredible power allows it to blast through a majority of the tier, or provide momentum into something that can blast through even harder much more effectively thanks to Sticky Web. Thunder and Bug Buzz are Galv's strongest STABs and Energy Ball allows Galvantula to bypass the Ground types who'd normally be comfortable vs Electrics such as Stunfisk and Sandslash. However, Volt Switch can replace Energy Ball or Thunder in order to provide offensive momentum after getting up Sticky Web in order to initiate a more favorable offensive matchup.

Choice Specs
Galvantula @ Choice Specs
Ability: Compound Eyes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Thunder
- Bug Buzz
- Energy Ball

This set allows Galvantula to forego Sticky Web and instead go for an all-out-offensive set utilizing a Choice Specs. This can be deadly for the fact that it even further limits Galvantula's checks such as Dugtrio-Alola from ever having a chance to try and pivot on a resisted Bug Buzz and revenge-killing with Stone Edge, since Energy Ball has a chance to OHKO after Spikes.


Jolteon is another incredibly strong Electric type whilst also being the fastest mon in the tier naturally. Although the offensive coverage is not as impressive as Galvantula, Jolteon is significantly stronger and faster than Galvantula. On top of this, it has a useful Electric immunity to help vs opposing Jolteon or Galvantula and can provide Wishpassing potential through the likes of Wish + Volt Switch, albeit not very big Wishes. But, Jolteon is able to support Bulky Offensive teams who need Jolteon's immediate revenge-killing prowess and naturally strong attacks alongside its pivoting. However, Jolteon also has access to a few new toys under its belt and the main one is Weather Ball. Weather Ball opens up an entirely new dynamic for Jolteon for its ability to now offensively threaten Ground types in the Rain. On top of this, Jolteon has the rare Quick Feet, which makes Jolteon's Speed completely unmatched by anything else in the tier. For perspective, Timid Swift Swim Golduck hits 590 Speed in the Rain and Jolteon with Timid and Flame Orb Quick Feet outpaces Golduck by one point- hitting a blistering 591 Speed.

Offensive Pivot / Revenge Killer
Jolteon @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Volt Switch
- Toxic / Hyper Voice / Wish

This set allows Jolteon to make sure of its naturally high Special Attack and Speed without having to forego a Life Orb or Choiced item and instead utilitizes Heavy-Duty Boots to ensure Jolteon can pivot as many times as it wishes to do without worrying about hazards. Shadow Ball is Jolteon's best coverage option, as that is mandatory for hitting Gourgeist who would otherwise hard-counter Jolteon. Toxic is great for hitting other would-be switch-ins to Jolteon such as Stunfisk and Sandslash, or alternatively this could be Hyper Voice to hit opposing Electric immunes such as Jolteon or Manectric for the highest damage possible. Wish is also an option on this set to provide a small HP boost to something after pivoting with Volt Switch.

Speed Demon
Jolteon @ Flame Orb
Ability: Quick Feet
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rain Dance
- Thunder
- Weather Ball
- Shadow Ball

As mentioned before, this set creates an unparalleled Speed stat for PU. Only being rivaled by priority, and Choice Scarf Swift Swim users in the Rain. On top of this, Rain Dance further boosts Jolteon's offensive potential by being able to effectively utilize Thunder and Weather Ball in tandem with Shadow Ball to hit Gourgeist.

SubTox
Jolteon @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Substitute
- Protect
- Toxic

SubTox is an excellent strategy for Jolteon to pull off due to its lack of coverage. Therefore, common Electric checks such as Sandslash, Appletun, and Gourgeist might believe they are safe to come in vs Jolteon. But with SubTox, even they fall victim. Protect is great for additional Leftovers recovery but also for scouting vs Choice Scarf users such as Unfezant and Golduck.


Pincurchin is back in PU and opens up the dynamic of Electric Terrain once again. However, this time it has Rising Voltage for itself and all new powerhouse partners such as Galvantula to abuse the terrain. Pincurchin has several supportive options in the likes of Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Recover, Memento and Self-Destruct. However, Pincurchin offensively is able to threaten on its own thanks to Rising Voltage and having Hydro Pump or Scald for opposing Ground types such as Stunfisk. However, Pincurchin would much rather leave the breaking to its teammates and would instead like to provide support via Hazards.

I think Pincurchin might eventually be unhealthy for the PU meta-game due to Rising Voltage. Pincurchin itself isn't the issue, it's the fact that Electrics gain access to a free nuke whenever Pincurchin can bring them in safely, which it is able to do rather comfortably thanks to Self-Destruct and Memento. On top of this, Pincurchin on its own technically shuts down an entire mechanic just by switching in and that is Sleep. RestTalk is a core function for a majority of bulky teams and how they function and the fact Pincurchin single-handedly shuts down that entire aspect of the meta-game is borderline broken. However, I would never pose the assumption that the Electric abusers or the Unburden abusers such as SubCM Drifblim are deemable as problematic on their own because they cannot abuse this mechanic on their own right as freely without the possibility of Pincurchin. Therefore, I'd suggest Pincurchin should be banned at some point.

Pincurchin @ Terrain Extender
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Spikes / Toxic Spikes
- Self-Destruct / Memento
- Rising Voltage
- Toxic Spikes / Scald

Pincurchin is able to very freely provide Spikes support + an absurdly powerful mechanic in the likes of Electric Terrain partnered with Rising Voltage and Unburden abusers and take advantage of it for as long as possible thanks to Terrain Extender. Self-Destruct is excellent at providing a free switch initiative on the opponent's pivoted Ground or Grass type, however Memento can also be used to bring in a setup sweeper such as SubCM Drifblim. Furthermore, Pincurchin can also pair Memento better with Toxic Spikes in order to make setup sweepers' jobs much more easily accomplished thanks to overall residual chip damage. Scald can also be an option over Toxic Spikes in order to further spread status ailments.



Quagsire is nothing new to PU, and eventually may rise to higher tiers but that's just how Quagsire functions as a mon. However, Quagsire is a very good implementation and a premiere staple for many Stall teams, if not all of them. Unaware is the main reason as to why Quagsire sees so much play on Stall, regardless of the tier it is in, but maybe this time around it might be able to use it's useful Water Absorb on some Balance builds as well (although I probably doubt it because we have better Water immunities in the tier and Quag doesn't have very much outside of its standard movesets). Nevertheless, Quagsire is still going to excel and be the main face for most, if not every Stall team in the current PU meta-game.

The Quag
Quagsire @ Leftovers / Rocky Helmet / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Recover
- Earthquake
- Scald
- Curse / Protect / Toxic / Haze / Encore / Yawn

This is the bread-and-butter set for every Quagsire on Stall teams because Quagsire has the tools to stave off and tank through most setup sweepers excluding the obvious Grass types and Toxic/Taunt users. The first 3 moves- Recover, Earthquake, and Scald are always a given. However, the 4th move is where Quagsire can really show its versatility on Stall. Curse is an excellent option to make Quagsire an extremely late-game win-con on its own after removing the Grass types, the special attackers, and limiting the Toxic spreaders from the opposing team to a minimum or by eliminating them entirely. Protect can go well in tandem with Leftovers not just for additional HP recovery but as well as PP stalling goes a long way for the late-game. Toxic can be necessary on teams if Quagsire is needed to fulfill a status spreading role in tandem with Scald burns, however Haze can also be great to support its own teammates since Quag has Unaware, which already ignores the boosts in the first place. Encore can be great to lock opponent's into setup moves, making it easier for its teammates later on, however Haze is typically better due to having a higher PP count as well as simply removes the boosts. Yawn is also great on Stall teams in order to help its teammates set up hazards more easily. Rocky Helmet can be swapped for Leftovers in order to provide additional chip damage overall, whereas Heavy-Duty Boots can be an excellent alternative in order to preserve Quagsire's longevity vs opposing hazard spamming teams such as KangaSpikes.



Qwilfish is an awesome addition for the PU tier as being the fastest Spiker and Toxic Spiker setter in the tier. On top of this, Qwilfish is an excellent partner for Rain teams as an offensive Swords Dance user. It's also notable that Qwilfish is faster than Drednaw, however Drednaw has a stronger Attack as well as better coverage options. Nevertheless, Qwilfish excels for its Poison STAB on Rain teams as a way to truly bust through Grass types excluding Gourgeist-Super. The downside is that Qwilfish, is a glass cannon regardless of the set chosen, so it really needs to make use of its 4 moves as efficiently as possible. Its excellent typing does help this situation, as well as having Intimidate to help on the physical side. Nevertheless, Qwilfish can excel as a premier Spiker/Suicide Lead on Bulky Offensive teams.

Offensive Spikes Lead
Qwilfish @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Taunt
- Poison Jab / Thunder Wave / Destiny Bond
- Scald
- Spikes

Intimidate goes a long way with Rocky Helmet as making Qwilfish quite a decent physical check to some weaker threats such as Unfezant going for U-turn but mainly Fighting types like Throh. Being able to Taunt opposing hazard setters or slower setup sweepers is critical for Qwilfish's success on Bulky Offensive teams, as well as also providing additional chip on several bulky mons with Spikes support + Rocky Helmet and Scald burns (shout-out to SM PU KangaSpikes). Poison Jab is a great option for hitting bulky Grass types who do not particularly mind Qwilfish all too much such as Appletun, but Thunder Wave can also be exceptional in order to provide some Speed control. Destiny Bond can also work in this spot as a way to double down vs a slower mon trying to pick off a really weak Qwilfish after getting its Spikes up.

Rain Sweeper
Qwilfish @ Life Orb / Lum Berry / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Liquidation
- Poison Jab
- Throat Chop / Explosion / Aqua Jet / Destiny Bond

Offensive Qwilfish can be scary on Rain teams thanks to the coveted Poison STAB in tandem with its already fantastic Water STAB. Being able to bypass most of the Grass types in the tier with Poison Jab is critical for either supporting its Rain abusing teammates such as Drednaw or even outright sweeping on its own if it can. Throat Chop is a great coverage for its ability to further threaten Gourgeist, but can be swapped out for Explosion to get a one time nuke. Aqua Jet is nice for a priority option vs fast threats such as Galvantula under Sticky Web, or even a last minute, extremely fast Destiny Bond can catch an opponent off guard after Qwilfish has done its job chipping away at a majority of the opponent's team. Lum Berry could be great to bypass a random Static from Stunfisk or Wisp from Gourgeist, but the loss in power due to no Life Orb is largely noticeable. Alternatively, Heavy-Duty Boots could be used here in order to make it more safely for Qwilfish to actually set up the Swords Dance.




I'll be honest, I never really expected this mon to fall to PU, but I'm not complaining! Runerigus is another offensive Ghost for the tier, but this one has a great secondary STAB option with Ground and has decent coverage alongside this to be considered as a breaker on its own under Trick Room. Base 95 Atk is decent alongside really strong STABs + Stone Edge coverage is pretty great. However, Runerigus seems to face stiff competition from the plethora of other Ghosts in the tier such as Gourgeist who not only pack the coveted Poltergeist, but have secondary STABs of their own which compliment well with the additional coverage they possess. But, what Runerigus has that Gourgeist lacks is access to some outstanding support moves such as Stealth Rock, Toxic Spikes, and Memento. On top of this, Runerigus has an excellent Electric immunity to help with the sheer amount of strong Electric breakers in the tier such as Choice Specs Manectric. Runerigus will definitely fit well on Bulky Offensive teams who need hazard support alongside key immunities in order to pivot around weaker attacks and can potentially threaten back with its own powerful moves under Trick Room.

Trick Room Wallbreaker
Runerigus @ Colbur Berry / Life Orb / Itemless
Ability: Wandering Spirit
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Def
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Poltergeist
- Stone Edge
- Trick Room

What I like about this set is it tries to abuse Runerigus' great STABs and coverage alongside decent offensive stats with fantastic natural defensive bulk further supported by a great typing under Trick Room. Runerigus can comfortably set a Trick Room vs many mons in the tier such as Unfezant clicking U-turn, Throh, Klinklang, and Kangaskhan (remember that Wandering Spirit swaps with Kanga's Scrappy after it attacks with Fake Out or whatever, meaning Rune can hit Kanga with Poltergeist afterward). Stone Edge is mandatory because not only is it Runerigus' strongest coverage option but it prevents Rune from being 100% walled by Unfezant or SubCM Drifblim after an Unburden. Colbur Berry makes sense because of how slow Runerigus is without Trick Room, meaning it is usually going to take a Knock Off from Throh before threatening it out after Trick Room has been clicked. However, Life Orb can also go here as a way to ensure even more damage output. Itemless can also be considered so that way opposing Runerigus and Dusknoir cannot hit it with Poltergeist, as well as forcing Gourgeist to play the accuracy game with Power Whip.

Defensive Rocker + Wisp
Runerigus @ Leftovers / Colbur Berry
Ability: Wandering Spirit
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Will-O-Wisp
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Toxic Spikes / Body Press

This set utilizes Runerigus' incredible bulk to set up Stealth Rock comfortably as well as provide Will-O-Wisp support upon switch-ins such as Heavy-Duty Boots Unfezant who think they are typically safe to Defog. Toxic Spikes is also great to set up as well, since Tspikes absorbers such as Silvally-Poison and Mareanie could never switch into Earthquake comfortably. Body Press however, could be included here as a way to 3HKO Type: Null - a who commonly walls most Ghost types such as Offensive Gourgeist, Dusknoir, and Heavy-Duty Boots Drifblim. Leftovers is most ideal for Runerigus because Rune is really held back by its shallow HP, but Colbur can also be nice for weakening Knock Off.



Stating that Sawk is staying in PU is an unrealistic expectation. This mon is absolutely absurd and deserves no place in the current PU meta-game just because of the fact Choice Band 2HKOs everything in the tier as well as it is naturally faster than a majority of the tier as is. Sawk would limit teambuilding to the point where it's either "kill or be killed". Either build some incredibly fat team with at least 2 designated Sawk checks such as Gourgeist-Super + Togetic or itemless Musharna or something orrr use Sawk yourself until it is inevitably banned. The argument could be made that Choice Band is prediction reliant, yes. However, Sawk has access to Knock Off Mold Breaker Earthquake meaning that prediction is less required and Knock Off is almost always a free move which just makes cleanup easier for something like Galvantula (who very easily deals with Sawk's aforementioned checks). Sawk + Galvantula as a duo completely wreck the tier. There is no point to post a set about recommending this for players because there is no expectation from me it remains in PU by tomorrow.


Silvally-Dark makes its debut in SS PU and it is looking very promising as a solid Swords Dance sweeper, just like every one of its predecessors. However, I suspect Silvally-Dark will not take the throne as the most dominating mon in the tier immediately (or ever fwiw) because Silvally-Dark may not first be even recognized compared to the new toys PU has received such as Galvantula, Sawk, Cramorant, and Alcremie. Nevertheless, once the hype (and the inevitable bans happen) dies down, Silvally-Dark will be recognized as a great sweeper in the PU meta-game. It won't do anything differently that the other Silvally's haven't tried, but will still find success in doing so because Dark is such an incredible typing and STAB for the tier as a whole. However, what I like that is noticeable about Silvally-Dark compartively to some of the other Silvally's such as Bug and Poison is that Silvally-Dark seems forced to have an opt-out for Fighting types because of how weak it is to them. Whether that means Swords Dance Psychic Fangs/U-turn or just an all-out-attacker set become the standard sets really shows how pressured Silvally-Dark is defensively comparatively to its competition in Bug or Poison.

Swords Dance Sweeper
Silvally-Dark @ Dark Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Psychic Fangs / U-turn
- Flame Charge

This to me seems to be Silvally-Dark's most promising set. Having the option to either smack a Fighting type or gain momentum vs it is mandatory for Silvally's success. Dark is such a fantastic offensive typing for the tier and very few Dark types actually have success in the tier because of the lack of coverage options they have for Fightings such as Throh and Falinks (hence why Nasty Plot Liepard is not as formidable as Nasty Plot Thievul was, regarding only their offensive movepool). Psychic fangs not only hits the Fighting types, but also threatens Mareanie trying to use Haze. U-turn however, can be used in order to gain momentum vs the aforementioned.

All-Out-Attacker
Silvally-Dark @ Dark Memory
Ability: RKS System
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- U-turn
- Multi-Attack
- Psychic Fangs
- Flamethrower

Same moveset as the Swords Dance set, however it utlizes U-turn over SD to gain leverage vs the opposing Fighting types assuming they aren't in Psychic Fangs range yet. Flamethrower however, it is recommended over Flame Charge in order to do more vs Mawile as well as Shiinotic or even catch Silvally-Bug on the switch-in.
 
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asa

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+

bag of trixx brought this up in their discussion post, but after using the core myself, I figured to add my two cents regarding it. Getting right to the point, Choice Band Sawk and Heavy-Duty Boots Galvantula make an incredible pair. The two naturally take on each others' weaknesses, with Sawk also compensating for Galvantula's relative lack of power (without a boosting item) while Galvantula generates momentum for Sawk, giving it more opportunities to either attack or possibly make use of Sturdy. Both are reliant on proper prediction to attain the best results, but just being paired with one another minimizes this flaw and immediately puts insane pressure on any team no matter the style. There are even ways to shore up other weaknesses that either member might have; for example, Sawk's middling Speed hinders it against offense, but this is less of an issue if Galvantula tacks on Sticky Web. If you haven't tried this core out, I highly recommend doing so. It's put in a lot of work on the teams I've included it on.



As a bit of an addendum to the earlier points made about Sawk + Galvantula, I think it's worth mentioning that I find Sawk (on its own) to be overwhelming, though I'm not sure about Galvantula. Sawk is still more than capable of ripping through just about everything because of its high power and good coverage options, and it even has some room for set variability in Choice Scarf and possibly even Taunt + Bulk Up sets. Galvantula is certainly great in its own right, but it doesn't feel as *consistently* absurd. Being faster than a lot of the tier does mean free momentum a lot of the time, and Energy Ball + secondary Bug typing keeps it from being dead weight against Ground-types; however, it tends to end up either too weak or too quickly worn down, and it doesn't have much defensive utility to its game other than resisting Grass and being neutral to Ground. I'll probably think it less problematic as time goes on, but I'm not sure right now.

Other than that, to me, there isn't much that immediately stands out as broken or too good. Maybe the Silvally forms will go back to doing their Silvally nonsense, but they don't seem bad just yet. In terms of playstyles, there's more room for creativity for offensive and defensive teams alike, which is always appreciated. Specifically, hazard stacking offense, Electric Terrain offense, and stall all look pretty formidable after being somewhat inconsistent in the previous metagame. The new Pokemon have been fun so far, here's hoping this meta is epic(tm).

edit: make sure to purchase steve dlc and stay safe :)
 
I'm back again to share my thoughts after the metagame has settled in a bit.

First of all, let's talk about Electric Terrain:
1) Offense
:jolteon: :drifblim: :liepard: :swoobat: :manectric:
So we can break down the offensive abusers into two roles: Rising voltage users and Electric Seed holders.
:jolteon::manectric:- In contrast to what I thought before, Jolteon doesn't really need a boosting item when it's using Rising Voltage in terrain. 182 BP vs grounded targets (before you take the STAB boost into account) which is basically the BP of Z-Moves. Just seems quite spamable and broken.
Defensive counterplay would obviously be ground types, but with the fact that Lilligant and Galvantula with Energy Ball are very common, I would say ground types are quite afraid. On top of that, the ground types in this tier are grounded, and can get easily worn down with the hazard stacking options these teams can have- Pincurchin (duh), Runerigus or what ever you feel like. Another defensive option would be Lightning Rod\Volt Absorb\ Motor Drive, but these pokemon are either ground types, electric types, or just frail pokemon (Emolga, Seaking).
Their (limited) coverage also limits the moves you need to run (especially in terrain), and you get a chance to use Thunder Wave or even Wish in Jolteon's case.
Seed sweepers are pretty scary, but they have their flaws:
:Swoobat:- Can be outsped and is quite frail even with the +2 boost from the Electric Seed, with the added bonus of not being able to do anything vs dark types.
:liepard:- Is also frail, and overall not the best offensive pokemon around.
:drifblim:- yeah it's pretty good under terrain, seed+CM+Strength Sap is amazing. Counterplay: Basically Morpeko.
2) More Offense
:Galvantula: :Sawk: :Silvally-dark:
The Amount of offensive pressure these pokemon have even without terrain is increadible, so why not put them together?
:galvantula:- The coverage, The SW support, the great synergy with Sawk- Everything was pretty muchsaid about this pokemon, So I wouldn't be surprised to see it leave us tomorrow, But I do think that without Sawk\ without terrain it might be able to stay. it isn't super strong and it can't set up, so it's not as threatening as Butterfree was, or hard to switch into like Thievul was. Since I see a scenario in which terrain will be banned, I would suggest to leave it in the tier.
:sawk:- Too strong for this tier. Already talked about it, but to sum it up: has no defensive counterplay, especially with webs support. Just Ban it.
:silvally-dark:- Similarly to Sawk, really appriciates webs and Galvantula in general taking care of dark types. I see it getting banned simply for the fact that Multi-Attack is too strong, especially with dark being a spamable type in this tier.
3) Support
:pincurchin: :Galvantula: :runerigus:
Just set hazards, you don't even need removal when your team has HDB or just doesn't care about them. Runerigus can spin-block, Galvantula usually gets a chance to get webs up, and Pincurchin is neccesary for terrain (again, duh), hazards, and being another wall next to the rune.
Bonus- Shuts down sleep powder from Lilligant and rest from Throh. Just throwing that in the mix.

I've used a team based on these ideas (and lost twice due to misclicks, but won the rest), and it seems like the tier will be shifting towards terrain sooner or later. Even if Galvantula, Sawk and Silvally-Dark will be banned, terrain will stay and it will be quite centralizing in my oppinion.
Therefore, I'm going to suggest that the council will look into banning Electric Terrain (or Electric Surge if you want to be more specific).
If before the DLC terrain teams were a nice niech after the Swoobat ban, Now they are a propper team option with very limited answers in conjunction with the support mentioned above.

Edit: Secondly- Sawk :sawk:
I did mention it already, but just ban it.

P.S. After Sawk will be banned, Pinsir can come in instead and play the role of the strong physical threat pretty well, though it won't like Stealth Rock. Just a thought.
 

Leni

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I've used a team based on these ideas (and lost twice due to misclicks, but won the rest), and it seems like the tier will be shifting towards terrain sooner or later. Even if Galvantula, Sawk and Silvally-Dark will be banned, terrain will stay and it will be quite centralizing in my oppinion.
Therefore, I'm going to suggest that the council will look into banning Electric Terrain (or Electric Surge if you want to be more specific).
If before the DLC terrain teams were a nice niech after the Swoobat ban, Now they are a propper team option with very limited answers in conjunction with the support mentioned above.
Very quick respond about the suggestion. The terrain itself wont be banned, but the Pincurchin instead in case it ends up being problematic to avoid making complex ban. Manual terrain setters haven't been the issue ever, but instead of the autosetters eg. the Pincurchin in this case. Personally I think its very, very close to be over the top for now, but will be playing more with terrain teams to settle my thoughts
 
Very quick respond about the suggestion. The terrain itself wont be banned, but the Pincurchin instead in case it ends up being problematic to avoid making complex ban. Manual terrain setters haven't been the issue ever, but instead of the autosetters eg. the Pincurchin in this case. Personally I think its very, very close to be over the top for now, but will be playing more with terrain teams to settle my thoughts
Wouldnt banning the auto setting ability fall more in line with what smogon has done before with Drizzle/Drought if an auto weather got too powerful? Pincurchin seems like it could be a decent defensive pokemon in the tier without auto terrain pushing a team archtype into stupid levels of opressiveness, much like Politoad with Drizzle would be way too much for the tier but fitting in nicely without it.

Id rather suggest a vote on electric surge as opposed to Electric Terrain in general or Pincurchin as a mon.
 
:jolteon: - Another electric type woohoo, this time it's a very good one tho. Jolteon FINALLY DROPPED (s/o the nu ladder for holding it for 5 months), an unrivaled speed tier added to a decent spa stats makes jolteon to be a threat you need to think about when building. But does this mean Jolteon is broken? No, i don't think so. Not having hidden powers really sucks for it, and while you could argue gimmicks like weather ball in rain to make it be able to hit grounds, it just doesnt have enough coverage to get pass grass types such as appletun or roselia.
This brings the question: what can Jolteon do to not be outclassed by Manectric?
 
This brings the question: what can Jolteon do to not be outclassed by Manectric?
The issue with Jolteon, as I see it, is primarily just its lack of coverage. While it may be stronger and faster than Galvantula and Manectric, those two both have multiple traits that make them inherently more appealing; Galv has Webs, secondary STAB, great coverage in Energy Ball and a stronger STAB (at least without support) in Compound Eyes- boosted Thunder, while Manectric has Fire coverage, an ability than can boost SpA and Switcheroo, a very ideal move for Choice users. Jolteon, meanwhile, has become stuck with Shadow Ball as its only natural special coverage, which is good for Runerigus but isn't particularly threatening to other Ground types. All hope isn't lost, though; PU also gets Pincurchin now, which provides Spikes support to whittle down opponents and Electric Surge to give Jolteon a much needed power boost in Rising Voltage. Then again, you could also put Manectric in this role. However, there are two potential routes that are wholly unique from the motor doggo.

1. Rain
Yes, after some careful examination I think manual rain could have its place in the tier. You see, Jolteon does get one option for Ground types- Weather Ball. Normally useless, rain transforms WB into a 100 BP Water move for hitting all those pesky Ground types (except Water Absorb Quagsire, but Unaware is a very tempting ability) and making it not dead weight. What's more, rain allows Jolteon to tap into stronger STAB in Thunder, providing a 1-2 punch so strong that it can afford to give up Specs for Boots to capitalize on Volt Switch while also preventing it from getting stone walled by a wrong prediction. Normally, this would be nothing but a gimmick (okay, maybe it still is), but Jolteon has some terrific partners on rain- Swift Swim users such as Golduck, Drednaw and fellow addition Qwilfish, Grass types who like damage reduction from Fire while not caring much about opposing Water types, Hurricane spam from- basically just Cramorant. Man, PU really doesn't have many Hurricane users. Still, I think the point is clear- manual rain does have potential in PU. Not sure who the best Rain Dancer is, but you probably want something defensive or fast. Honestly, I think Bag of Trixx has a point about how Jolt itself could be at least a back-up setter on top of a high-power menace, but you might be better served with some option for WA Quag.

Theoretically, one could also try WB tech out on Hail team, as that weather gives access to the coveted BoltBeam combo, but that may still be niche since Hail is just worse than Rain, the only natural setters are NFEs and it doesn't come with the bonus of stronger STAB. Still, maybe someone could get this to work. As for the other thing it does uniquely, it's a bit more- questionable.

2. Fast Support
This one instinctively feels more gimmicky to me, but Jolteon has- some decent support moves. Notably, it has Wish and Heal Bell; in conjunction with Boots and Volt Switch, Jolt may be able to serve as a fast cleric. While Jolteon is not the only PU legal mon with Wish, it is one of only a few than can also pivot, which eases the damage the Wish recipient does take. The only others who get this combo (in PU) are Raichu, Unfezant and Wigglytuff; Jolt is distinctly better than Raichu in this role, Unfezant rarely utilizes Wish and Wigglytuff functions differently enough as a cleric that it shouldn't automatically disqualify this niche (although Wiggly itself is lowkey underrated right now). From there, you have your choice of Heal Bell for additional cleric support, Toxic to spread reliable damage and Protect to scout and receive its own Wish, all with a Speed stat that allows Jolt to reliably get these moves off. This role is obviously compromised by Jolt's rather lackluster bulk; as such, I think this usage of Jolt should probably be exclusive to HO teams. You should also make sure that any recipient for Wish has the bulk to actually stomach an attack given Jolt usually moves first, such as one of the Silvallys, who really appreciate any kind of Wish support and help make that nice little VoltTurn core that offensive players love.

Look, I know these don't sound too tier-defining on paper. Because they probably aren't. This post is pretty much just stating what Jolteon has that Manectric doesn't, and the something I could find is Weather Ball, Wish and Heal Bell. What about Quick Feet? I mean, Jolt's already the fastest unboosted mon in the tier; really, the only use QF has is outspeeding certain Scarfers and opposing Swift Swim users. Plus, reliably activating this ability also means sacrificing both power-boosting items and Boots. Especially with the other dangerous Electrics running around right now, Volt Absorb is just a more useful ability. Still, any other ideas for Jolt are more than welcome.
 

Ktütverde

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Hey, very interesting posts above. I'll echo some concerns voiced earlier and expand on them a bit, and add some new stuff too.

Broken stuff that dont need much description
I've played the new tier quite a lot and these three things struck me as super broken:
- Galvantula is stupid as hell and i'd even say it is tauros-level of dumbness, way too fast, can KO 3/4 of the tier with specs. Boots is extremely potent too, not as strong but puts foes in KO range via voltswitch, and takes away the hope to see the spider die from hazards. Bug buzz nukes jolteon and grass types, but manectric does it too with overheat. However, energyball pushes it over the edge since stunfisk, runerigus and quagsire cant do anything vs that. I've forfeited several games because I couldnt do anything vs it even when using runerigus and jolteon for instance.
- Sawk especially CB forces you to run multiple figthting checks because it can destroy every one of them, including runerigus, so you have to play guessing games "do i send qwilfish on a possible EQ or runerigus on the CB knock" etc.
- Darkvally has no real counterplay either, alcremie must be physdef to check it and loses to ironhead, avalugg loses to flamethrower, throh to psychic fangs. The other vallies are way different cuz their stabs kinda suck, but dark is spammable as hell.

Jolteon!
I'd like those to go and hope they do, i'm def not the first to complain about them. Now, positive talk. I really like the addition of jolteon, the interaction with manectric is also super fun: while manectric is much more dangerous since it can actually hurt stunfisk and grasses, jolteon's speed makes it way more splashable, and weirdly enough, it's at the same time better and less scary than manectric. Jolteon is dangerous for teams using runerigus or sandslash over stunfisk tho, but I'm pretty sure stunfisk will be the best ground once sawk leaves, so for the moment I'm convinced jolteon isnt broken (just use for example appletun with your ground and call it a day vs jolteon).
(to answer the post above, jolteon has the speed over manectric (while having better spa too), and that suffices to making it better. Speed is the best stat in the game, and this guy can revengekill anything without using a scarf, which is huge).

The other silvallies
Very happy with vallies epecially poison being allowed, we did need good defoggers, i thought we'd get skuntank but this will do too. Poisonvally was banned when teams had no ground cuz there were no grounds in PU back then LOL (palpitoad but eh), now there are 3 good grounds and not many ohter defoggers so this guy wont probably be seen using swords dance again. It checks stuff like sawk alcremie and lilligant and is the only good removal that beats roselia/qwilfish/ferroseed so I feel like it's very healthy and makes games smoother and more enjoyable.

Pincurchin HO
Jolteon and galvantula have turned this formerly joke playstyle into a threat. Pincurching also adds nothing of value to the ther except the possibility to cheese wins with this. If galvantula gets the boot maybe it'll probably make the playtyle less good since the only electric that can abuse stunfisk will be gone. Still you can force stunfisk to go down with drifblim for instance and then rising voltage jolteon wins... The worst imo is that u can actually make a significant number of variants of urchin HO, so preparing for this seems overwhelming to me.

Corsola-G
I really dislike playing against that. Like, you have to go out of your way like crazy to take it down. It burns half your team without trouble, spams nightshade and just doenst die and the best solution is to ppstall it with rest throh or something like that. PU has no real status absorbers, which really makes Gorsola annoying as hell. It's weak to toxic but you cant send a toxic user in easily, actually u dont want your ground or steel burnt just to toxic a damn coral when u need them healthy and not statused to answer other things. Thus I'd lean pro-ban based on my experience dealing with it.

Have a good evening guys! Keep up the discussion like that!
 
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Hera

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So, we're all talking about the drops? Might as well throw my hat into the ring since I think I can provide a new POV against what was already said.



:ss/galvantula:

(Click on the bug for an unfunny meme)

Out of all the drops we got, both from first impressions and actually playing around with it on ladder and in room tours, Galvantula stands out to me as the most problematic drops. I know most people would say Sawk, and I'll get to him later, but Galvantula is the more broken thing to me. Electric + Bug STABs are not resisted by any Pokémon that is PU by usage (apart from Duggy-A, which has a 3/4 chance to be OHKOed by Bug Buzz after a layer of Spikes), meaning to find a solid check, we would have to search the realms of NFE and ZU for something that resists them. Emogla and Hakamo-O are the only mons that resist both of its STABs (so does Dedenne but Energy Ball is a clean 2HKO so...), and even then Hakamo-O can be pivoted on via Volt Switch, so you're only really left with Emogla as a counter. Speaking of Energy Ball, the Ground types that would love to switch into a Thunder and decimated by Energy Ball, either taking considerable chip or simply dying because Galvantula clicked the right button. Other possible checks, such as SpDef walls or AV mons, are pivoted out into something that can threaten them. Boots or LO means it either has great longevity or great breaking power, and this choice of item makes Galvantula extremely hard to predict until its set has been revealed. Its Speed tier is also something that's worth looking at, outpacing all but a few non-Scarfed mons, and usually it's the fastest unbooted thing in the match. I've had more than a few serious games come down to "Which Galvantula wins the Speed tie?" simply because nothing on either team could revenge kill a Galvantula. But I think was really pushes the spider over the edge is Sticky Web. Oh, that Scarfer you were going to switch into Galvantula to pressure it? Well, it just clicked Webs, switched out into something that the Scarfer can't threaten, and now you're unable to pressure it again. This neuters all offensive counterplay except for Pawniard and Scarf Unfezant, both of which are easily worn down and can't switch in anyway since Thunder can OHKO both of them. Not to mention that Sticky Web provides an insane amount of support for its teammates, allowing other recent drops such as Sawk or Silvally-Dark to clean house. Overall, I think that Galvantula's near-perfect coverage, speed tier, and Webs combined with the unpredictably of its item makes it quite bannable.


:ss/sawk:

I'm a bit more on the fence about Sawk than I am with Galvantula. With Galvantula, I saw the breaking power on paper, the coverage, and Sticky Web, and I was almost convinced it was stupid. It only took me a few more games to actually know for sure it's broken. With Sawk, I had similar expectations going, that it was going to be a stupid and dumb mon that just clicked buttons and won. However, after using either set I saw as viable, I was pretty disappointed with the results I got from it. Sawk rarely contributed to a win, and if it did, it took out one weakened thing that I could've had anything else on my team do. When you get down to it, despite having amazing power, coverage, and a solid Speed tier, it's a Fighting type in a metagame which has sufficient checks to them. Band sets don't just get to click buttons randomly, they have to predict right or else lose momentum. Ghosts are immune to CC, and normally that would mean a Knock Off click, but with more Silvallys in the tier, it's not super easy to click that either. Stone Edge is stuffed out by Ground types, and Earthquake by Flying types, who just so happen to directly threaten Sawk. Plus, outside of Sturdy (which forces hazards removal in order to keep it or HDB, which don't seem that popular), Sawk offers no defensive utility whatsoever. 75 bulk across the board won't get you anywhere, even invested, and for that reason it's hard to get in and is outclassed by Throh on more balanced teams. I think the closest it will get to be broken is the LO AoA set I've grown fond to using, but even then that gets worn down easily by LO recoil and pressured out by the many offensive Fighting checks in the tier. Of course, I did say I was on the fence about it, and this post does seem very Sawk-favor. It still has amazing power and coverage that could break the tier, but struggles to use it without sufficient support, which is why I'm not sure it's broken.

I think one of the main reasons Sawk is so overblown in my opinion is how great of a core it and Galvantula builds. Coincidentally, most of one's checks are dealt with by the other. Galvantula deals with Flying-types that give Sawk trouble, and Sawk breaks through the SpDef walls that Galvantula hates. Most importantly, Galvantula can set Webs for Sawk to break through more offensive teams. Sawk is great, easy A+ or S, but it needs good matchups or significant team support, like Webs, in order to live up to its potential. Galvantula doesn't. My argument is if we remove Galvantula (which looks highly likely), Sawk might become balanced enough to remain within the tier due to not only Webs support being harder to provide, but Galvantula's ability to force less-then-viable checks and the SpDef walls that Sawk preys on.


:ss/silvally:

So PU has more than one Silvally back. Remember when these things controlled the meta, and when the most problematic were banned, another form just stepped up and got banned, which lead to all but Ice and Rock being banned? Good times. As for the returning Silvallys, I have mostly positive things to say about them. Poison has always been my favorite form to use, with its great defense utility, a cool color palette, and great, but not broken, coverage and move set options. I have been an active-ish proponent of seeing Silvally-Poison to return to the tier, and I am heavily impressed by how mixed, bulky, and AoA sets perform in the tier. Dark is a form I know a lot less about, only using it in a few PU battles and on an old Sun team in a higher tier, but it doesn't seem as spammable compared to Poison right now. This may only be New Toy Syndrome, as Sawk, Galvantula, and the pre-existing Fighting types are making it hard to use any Dark-type in the tier right now, so I expect it to uptick in usage after one or both get banned tomorrow. I feel that physical sets will be more popular, as it get Psychic Fangs for Fighting-types and Fire Fang/Flame Charge for Mawile. Bug, however, I have no experience with. From my first thoughts, Bug isn't the great STAB ever, and getting worn down by hazards while being outclassed by Ice at checking Grass-types and by Poison at checking Fighting-types kinda sucks. STAB U-Turn is pretty cool, but other than that I don't see a reason to use Bug over the others.


:ss/pincurchin:

I see Electric Terrain similarly as I see Drought in RU. On paper, it should be dumb. Rising Voltage STAB nukes means big numbers and clean 2HKOs on most resists and all but the bulkiest SpDef walls, and 6-7 turns of being able to spam that should be an easy ban. However, in practice, I've found it to be underwhelming. Full Electric Terrain teams struggle to get their abusers in, and often need LO in order to stay powerful, which leaves them worn down over time due to hazards and recoil. Magic Bounce users would usually remedy this, but neither Hattrem nor the more niche Natu enjoy the presence of Galvantula, which is on a lot of teams right now. Even if Galvantula is banned, full Terrain teams can struggle with proper speed control (being naturally fast and having Webs support means teams often end up falling back on Unburden mons for their speed control, which doesn't really work in the long run). I think the "wave" so to speak will be Pincurchin supporting one or two mons with Terrain, which doesn't seem to be broken at all. I don't think PU should take any steps towards banning it until after the quickbans coming up.


And yeah, I don't have much to say about the other drops. I guess Cursola is kinda dumb right now, Ferroseed is really annoying, Kanga I need to see more of after quickbans happen because it might be broken once people get tired of Sawk + Galvantula, but other than that I'm either satisfied or don't have an opinion on the others. Also I've seen some mumblings about Corsola-G and...really? Doesn't seem that hard to cripple with a bunch of Toxic and Knock Off users in the tier, and it simply cannot do anything against stuff like Lickillicky. Rocks are up, but in the process you've wasted, like, 10 turns or something? Seems like Dusclops except better, and lots of similar principles to beat that apply here, unless someone can prove to me it's broken and worthy of a ban, I'm always open to opposing views. Anyway, hope you have a good day/night!
 
Very quick respond about the suggestion. The terrain itself wont be banned, but the Pincurchin instead in case it ends up being problematic to avoid making complex ban. Manual terrain setters haven't been the issue ever, but instead of the autosetters eg. the Pincurchin in this case. Personally I think its very, very close to be over the top for now, but will be playing more with terrain teams to settle my thoughts
As PurpleEchoes responded (and I also mentioned in my post), I was suggesting to ban the ability, the same way Smogon has banned Drought\Drizzle in the past. Of course, unlike weather setting moves, terrain setting moves are pretty limited in distribution (11 possible setters, including ZU, NFE and LC) and therefore limit this play-style, so I wouldn't think of actually banning the move- only the ability.
On top of that, I don't think Pincurchin is the problem. Ok stats, decent coverage and good support with Lightning Rod as an ability sounds like something that can fit into pu, and even wall the electrics that are running around here.
 
So hot take but I honestly feel that Jolteon is stronger than Galvantula.

It's way faster. It's Thunderbolt is only a little bit weaker Galvantula's Thunder and doesn't have the pesky miss chance. Copycat is full of shenanigans.

Volt Absorb gives you a ton of free switch ins and you aren't as dependent on Boots as Galvantula so you're free to run Life Orb. If Galvantula runs Life Orb it'll kill itself for you, between Recoil ans hazards.

I honestly don't see how anyone who is trying to check /counter Galvantula can struggle to do so. Jolteon is far harder to check.

A good Hitmonchan to check Galvntula and a bunch of other special threats ;

Hitmonchan @ Assault Vest
Careful Nature
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 136 SpD / 48 Spe
- Fire Punch
- Drain Punch
- Throat Chop
- Rapid Spin/ Mach Punch/ Bullet Punch

Galvntula can't even 3HKO you, while you do 90% with Fire Punch. A priority move is useful to finish Galv off (though if it's running Orb you can just OHKO it after recoil.). Sadly it requires a bit too much Speed investment to outspeed if after a Rapid Spin, but it does earn you a LOT of swag points.
 
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jcbc

lechonk is so cute
is a Pre-Contributor
- Darkvally has no real counterplay either, alcremie must be physdef to check it and loses to ironhead, avalugg loses to flamethrower, throh to psychic fangs. The other vallies are way different cuz their stabs kinda suck, but dark is spammable as hell.
I just want to point out that darkvally suffers from a 4MSS that doesnt allow him to do all this and while it can have coverage for all its checks it doesn't break through some of them without an SD. Is obviusly a very good mon but i personally am not on the ban darkvally train yet.


I agree on the rest tho, good post ^^
 

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:ss/alcremie:
Alcremie-Salted-Cream (F) @ Leftovers / Pixie Plate
Ability: Aroma Veil
EVs: 108 HP / 252 SpA / 148 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dazzling Gleam
- Mystical Fire
- Psychic
- Recover

This is the set ive been using on Alcremie. Have found that offensive sets with CM take too long to start breaking common cores, or dont have a way of reliably taking down poisons like Silvally and Mareanie. This set allows you to not have to pick what you lose to thanks to having all the coverage you could ever want :D (The speed is for max neutral nature base 50's while also outspeeding anything that creeps said speed tier) Alcremie is a really good pick atm. It has great defensive utility and is quite splashable. Having a Liepard and Throh answer in one slot is so satisfying lol.

Onto the mons im most concerned about going into the vote:

:ss/sawk: Sawk has very little if not 0 defensive counter play. The set's ive found most problematic to be are CB and Bulk Up. CB has no reliable switch ins. Every time CB is in vs something that is not faster it can and most likely will get a kill. The coverage is far too good and niche things like no item phys def Runerigus have no reliable recovery so it can only switch in once. Bulk Up is a bit harder to use but it just tears through defense, it needs one turn and it turns into the monster that I just described with CB but can now switch up moves. So any hope of winning via scouting or making a hard read is gone. It also has semi reliable ways of setting up because of Boots Sturdy. Sawk is a monster and I don't think it should stay at all, Snake would be a mess with it.

:ss/galvantula: Galvantula is quite tough to maneuver around. We have a select few Spdef walls/tanks that can take Thunders and Bug Buzz's well, but they're also very exploitable or lose over time. Null takes every hit with ease, but it's too reliant on Eviolite if Volt Switch is clicked you're just boned. Spdef Throh can take hits similarly well, but if it wants to be a long term check it'll be forced to rest and be put in a bad spot. If Galvantula didn't have a way to hit all the grounds, I don't think it would be nearly as stupid. It simply chunks everything with it's dual stab, and hits all the volt immunes way too hard. Any defensive check doesn't actually beat it because you can never reliably stop Volt switch. I will most likely be voting ban on Galvantula because of this.

:ss/silvally-dark: Silvally Dark is far too powerful of a breaker. Dark is a top offensive typing rn (see CB Liepard for example) and combined with the amount of options it has, nobody is safe. Psychic fangs hits Throh, and only takes a little chip to kill Rest talk outright at +2. Flamethrower hits Avalugg and Mawile (and tangela but rip :pray:), Iron Head hits Alcremie and any niche Fairy type like Shiinotic and Wiggly, Flame Charge allows it to outspeed common scarfers like Unfezant and Golduck. We've seen this story before with other Silvallys and this time is no different. You have to hope it isn't running the right coverage option for the MU, and if it is well gl hf.

:ss/pincurchin: I'm torn on Pincurchin, and just to be clear I'm not too worried about it perpetuating terrain, Pincurchin is just a potentially dumb breaker. We have defensive answers like Roselia and Appletun, I just wonder how you can even switch in if you don't have one of those. Stunfisk doesn't like Specs Hydro, Quagsire needs to be Spdef or Water Absorb, Sandslash same thing as Stunfisk. It'll 2 hit KO and borderline OKO everything in the tier that isn't immune or one of Rose Apple. Not sure I really want this in the tier. We have powerful breakers, but Pincurchin feels like another level. Ig we'll wait and see how I feel when vote comes but rn it seems problematic.

Side note: the meta is very fun atm even with the things I just pointed out. Any time we get some new options this gen, it feels like a breath of fresh air. Seems like the others on council are liking it too, and we've been keeping a close eye on things to make sure we can have the best meta possible going into this week and the future weeks of snake and another tour coming up :blobpex:
 
So hot take but I honestly feel that Jolteon is stronger than Galvantula.

It's way faster. It's Thunderbolt is only a little bit weaker Galvantula's Thunder and doesn't have the pesky miss chance. Copycat is full of shenanigans.

Volt Absorb gives you a ton of free switch ins and you aren't as dependent on Boots as Galvantula so you're free to run Life Orb. If Galvantula runs Life Orb it'll kill itself for you, between Recoil ans hazards.

I honestly don't see how anyone who is trying to check /counter Galvantula can struggle to do so. Jolteon is far harder to check.

A good Hitmonchan to check Galvntula and a bunch of other special threats ;

Hitmonchan @ Assault Vest
Careful Nature
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Atk / 136 SpD / 48 Spe
- Fire Punch
- Drain Punch
- Throat Chop
- Rapid Spin

Galvntula can't even 3HKO you, while you do 90% with Fire Punch.
according to the definition of a counter, its actually a counter. It can switch in on any of its moves, not factoring in hax, and beat it every time. (again, without hax factored in)
 
according to the definition of a counter, its actually a counter. It can switch in on any of its moves, not factoring in hax, and beat it every time. (again, without hax factored in)
I say "Check" rather than Counter because you need to be very healthy to beat it one on one if Galv is from full, and between crits, SDef drops and Paralysis a lot can go wrong for Hitmonchan. However if you drop Rapid Spin for a priority move it makes it much easier. Annoyingly it requires too much investment in speed to outspeed at +1 from spin.
 

MZ

And now for something completely different
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That quickban vote we've been talking about happened. Sawk, Galvantula, and Silvally-Dark are banned, and Perrserker is unbanned. There's a lot of individual reasonings in the post and there will be a long edition of council minutes tomorrow. Really enjoying a lot of the posts here, played almost nothing of the new meta bc I was quite sick and found all of these summaries quite engaging so thanks guys.
 
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