SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

DreamPrince said:
Its weird that the Grass type has never had a cover Legendary. Not sure if Calyrex counts, since its the mascot of the Expansion, not of a box. Even if it does, this would be the first time in more than 20 years that Grass has had a legendary mascot. In fact, Virizion was the first Grass type Legendary ( Not Counting Mythicals ) and that was in Gen 5. Its so strange for a being starter type, you think it would have more prominence, but no, its kind of like how scarce Fire is a type despite being starter type.

I honestly think its bizarre that Grass hasn't had a Cover Legendary. Lore wise, there are countless nature deities and Forest Spirits from various cultures and religions, so I don't think inspiration is problem. Looking back it, Xerneas would be perfect Grass type, it sleeps in the form of a tree, and can create forests. Yet, no Grass type.
Click to expand...

If I had to guess, the reason we've hadn't had a Grass-type cover legendary is just because the themes they go for never lead to the Mascot Legendaries being Grass... except Xerneas totally should have been a Fairy/Grass (if I had to guess why they didn't, they wanted to make Fairy "look good" for its first Legendary; however making it Fairy/Grass would have put it on even ground with its counterpart's Dark/Flying). Another issues if probably a Grass Legendary being a nature spirits which they made in Celebi which is a Mythical... and then again with Shaymin which is also a Mythical.

R_N said:
Psychic I have no explanation for. In the base game Bede is the only Psychic specialist and he doesn't stick with that the whole game, switching to Fairy. There's Avery but he's exclusive to the DLC. Feels like an odd omission, no matter how you slice it.
Click to expand...

It feels like every generation there's one Type they can of let fall to the wayside for no reason. Last Gen it was Ice-type having no Type Expert unless you count Sina.
 
Pikachu315111 said:
It feels like every generation there's one Type they can of let fall to the wayside for no reason. Last Gen it was Ice-type having no Type Expert unless you count Sina.
Click to expand...
Sina probably should count. Her battle is with 2 ice types and she's got 3 of them in her Battle Tree pool (Dexio, surprisingly only has 2 Psychics)
It's still odd that you don't fight Sina for the mega ring/zygarde in moon/ultra moon.
 
R_N said:
It's still odd that you don't fight Sina for the mega ring/zygarde in moon/ultra moon.
Click to expand...
don't mind me I got bored and looked into such an idea
:glaceon: :sandslash-alola: :vanilluxe: :lapras: :glalie-mega:

Checking the Alolan dex at the time of SM, there are only 14 Ice-Types. Out of these, Crabominable, Cloyster, and Weavile seem unlikely candidates, and with Glaceon already being showcased, (not to mention Deixo also having Espeon), Delibird being unlikely to be seriously used this late into the game, and Glalie being the only available Ice-Type mega evolution, this leaves Froslass, Vanilluxe, Lapras, and the two alolan forms as extra party members. If consistency with Deixo's team is to be achieved, one of those two alolan forms is mostly guarenteed, (I lean towards Sandslash here to achieve version exclusiveness) and nobody else in the game uses Vanilluxe and Lapras, leading to those being decided.
 
One thing that has been on my mind as of late is Volcarona. It's not a Legendary Pokemon...but part of me wonders if it was intended to be a legendary Pokemon at some point when they were developing BW. I mean, it has so much in common with legendaries in its debut generation, oddly too much in common for it to really be a coincidence:

- It's a single unique encounter in the Relic Castle. Like all legendaries you find in the games, you find it at the end of the dungeon, interact with it, and battle it and potentially catch it.
- It's also a post-game encounter at Level 70, which is a pretty common encounter level for post-game legendaries in the games.
- It has a signature move, Fiery Dance. Which is also still its signature move. And this particular one is distinct in that it's learned at Level 100, and has a remarkably powerful effect of having a high chance of raising Volcarona's special attack by one stage. This is too good a move to just be distributed on just any Pokemon.
- It's in the Slow EXP group, like most legendaries.
- Its dex placement has it right before the Legendary Pokemon, and right after Hydreigon (the pseudo-legendary line). Barring two exceptions, the pseudo-legendaries are always listed right before the Legendary Pokemon of the generation in the dex listings or in the case of Dragonite and Tyranitar, in between the sub-legendaries and the major ones. Yet Volcarona and only Volcarona (and Larvesta) stands between Hydreigon and Cobalion in the dex.
- Its design just screams something powerful. It's a giant, six-winged moth. Plus look at its dex entries! It's described as being akin to the sun and having saved Pokemon from freezing once in history. It's also located in an ancient civilization. It's also described as a deity, and is depicted in ancient murals.

Just too much lines up for this to be a coincidence. I know it's not actually classified as a legendary, but looking at all this, it really does raise the question as to whether they were planning to make it one when BW was being developed. The only other thing is that it's Alder's signature Pokemon, and if it was a Legendary it would have given off more meaning to Alder losing to N since it would mean Alder himself has a legendary and yet was still trumped by N, who had an even stronger legendary Pokemon. But when you look at it...it really does feel like Volcarona was designed to be a legendary Pokemon originally, but then made into a non-legendary.
 
Codraroll said:
Using that term is like saying "Base stats" about EVs or "potential" about IVs. Just because it's Game Freak's stupid nomenclature doesn't mean we should accept it. "Pseudo-legendary" has worked fine for two decades, and still does.
Click to expand...
Except the official term "legendary" has been stretched so thin than saying something is "like a legendary" (literally "pseudo-legendary") has very little meaning.
 
Codraroll said:
Using that term is like saying "Base stats" about EVs or "potential" about IVs. Just because it's Game Freak's stupid nomenclature doesn't mean we should accept it. "Pseudo-legendary" has worked fine for two decades, and still does.
Click to expand...
oooor ‘first partner’ for stater Pokémon, because reasons i guess?
like stater works fine, we aren’t gonna suddenly call cinderace the best first partner pokemon
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Except the official term "legendary" has been stretched so thin than saying something is "like a legendary" (literally "pseudo-legendary") has very little meaning.
Click to expand...

Well, no. The term has been around long enough that people generally know what is meant by it. It simply references the fact that Dragonite et al are on par competitively with certain legendary Pokemon; it doesn't mean anything other than that.

It's not a literal descriptor (iirc the Japanese term for pseudo-legendaries is "600 club", but that muddies the water even further since very few legendary Pokemon have a BST of 600) but "late bloomer" doesn't really work either since there are many, many Pokemon that "bloom late". Bulbapedia even stipulates that all pseudo-legends are in the Slow experience group when all sorts of other Pokemon are in it (Snover, Shellder, Type:Null, and even Tentacool to name a few).

Ironically, if we're going by the absolute literal meaning of pseudo-legendary, Phione is probably the closest thing to that.
 
Codraroll said:
Using that term is like saying "Base stats" about EVs or "potential" about IVs. Just because it's Game Freak's stupid nomenclature doesn't mean we should accept it. "Pseudo-legendary" has worked fine for two decades, and still does.
Click to expand...

Alright, I'll stop using it. I don't think it's a bad term but seems like I'm in the minority.

DrPumpkinz said:
Except the official term "legendary" has been stretched so thin than saying something is "like a legendary" (literally "pseudo-legendary") has very little meaning.
Click to expand...

That's Codraroll's point. GF is very loose or ambiguous with their terminology that it doesn't get across the idea of what they're talking about. You're right that in the games and official sources that many non-Legendaries and Mythicals have been called or compared to Legendaries, that's a problem as it muddies what the term Legendary means.

Meanwhile, fan/meta terminology has mostly been consistent with only arguments occasionally about who to include (mostly an issue with Legendaries with Pokemon like Phione & the Type: Null family). However "Pseudo Legendaries" and "Mythicals" have been a pretty straight forward group (though I guess the Phione argument exteneds into whether it should be a Mythical is Manaphy is). The fan/meta terminology terminology isn't perfect and sometimes it's a bit bland, but it's at least more consistent than official uses have been.

green_typhlosion said:
but "late bloomer" doesn't really work either since there are many, many Pokemon that "bloom late".
Click to expand...

Eh, there's always going to be exceptions to the rules. Like the Island Guardians technically don't match with the standard rule of Legendaries having at least 580 BST yet they're still Legendaries. Groudon and Kyogre have 670 BST but they're still considered Version Mascots.

Also you're kind of taking the term literally instead of what it means. A "late bloomer" is something which has great potential but that potential comes out at a later date far after many others have gotten to theirs. That pretty much describes the Pseudo Legendaries. They're not that great, infact some straight out stink, in their base form, reach average levels when evolving to their middle form (where many other Pokemon have fully evolved and reached their peak potential), and much later do they finally show why people compare their power to that of Legendaries.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Except the official term "legendary" has been stretched so thin than saying something is "like a legendary" (literally "pseudo-legendary") has very little meaning.
Click to expand...
So I know people have been beating this particular drum for about 18 years now, but, if you call something a Legendary people are going to know what you're talking about because its so entrenched. Likewise, so is pseudo-legendary. It doesn't matter how many there are (regardless of how many split categories GF throws out for marketing) or how they've tweaked the formula on what a legendary even is.

Only jokesters and people with chips on their shoulders are going to see "pseudo-legendary" and then go do you mean...... KUBFU??????
 
R_N said:
Only jokesters and people with chips on their shoulders are going to see "pseudo-legendary" and then go do you mean...... KUBFU??????
Click to expand...
Kubfu is a full-on legendary though. I was actually planning on making a joke about Teddyursa being a pseudo-legendary for that very reason.
 
DrPumpkinz said:
Kubfu is a full-on legendary though. I was actually planning on making a joke about Teddyursa being a pseudo-legendary for that very reason.
Click to expand...
My take on this oncoming joke was: taking a legendary some barely consider a legendary and haphazardly calling it a pseudo as a dunk on Gamefreak's legendary classification
 
R_N said:
My take on this oncoming joke was: taking a legendary some barely consider a legendary and haphazardly calling it a pseudo as a dunk on Gamefreak's legendary classification
Click to expand...

1602000813579.png

“It is outclassed by other Normal-type Pokemon like Stoutland and Kangaskhan because they have a more useful ability and more use offensively.”
sad regigigigigigas noises
 
Pikachu315111 said:
The fan/meta terminology terminology isn't perfect and sometimes it's a bit bland, but it's at least more consistent than official uses have been.
Click to expand...
In one instance, Game Freak (well, at least their translators) even adopted a fan term. The term "Shiny Pokémon" was used among the fans ever since GSC, but the phenomenon didn't have an official name until Gen V, I think. Back in the days, Bulbapedia insisted on using the term "alternate coloration" to underline how unofficial the term "shiny" was. And then BW was released, and an NPC in Nimbasa City had adopted the term...
 
Codraroll said:
In one instance, Game Freak (well, at least their translators) even adopted a fan term. The term "Shiny Pokémon" was used among the fans ever since GSC, but the phenomenon didn't have an official name until Gen V, I think. Back in the days, Bulbapedia insisted on using the term "alternate coloration" to underline how unofficial the term "shiny" was. And then BW was released, and an NPC in Nimbasa City had adopted the term...
Click to expand...
Especially notable because the media did use an assortment of terms before then. TCG's "Shining" (both english & Japanese) was probably the most notable, but there was also "differently colored" or my favorite was going out of their way to call the shiny pichu you got with the movie "Pikachu Colored Pichu". Apparently Stadium 2 called them "Color Pokemon"

I wonder what finally got them to go, no, lets give these an actual consistent name and then adopted the fan term that had seemingly permeated both the English & Japanese audiences. in retrospect its weird these pokemon didn't have an actual, distinct name to begin with.
 
So this just hit me when writing another post.

One of Giovanni's goals in the Gen I games is to amass many rare Pokemon for himself. Also note he just arms his grunts with super common Pokemon.

Yet, in the Celadon Game Corner, they're giving away the following Pokemon:
  • Porygon (The exclusive Pokemon that they stole from Silph Co.. Porygon can only be gotten this way but it's not that strong & doesn't evolve so Giovanni probably thought the best use for it: a shiny prize people would spend thousands of coins to just have the honor or owning (and who knows if Team Rocket didn't figure out a way to create more if need be, thus always having it in the front window to draw in suckers patrons))
  • Abra (Okay, I can see it being useless to give Abra to the weaker grunts as it can only learn Teleport and TMs to make it useful is probably too expensive/rare to waste resources on a low level grunt. But what about the higher level grunts? Even a Kadabra would make one to reckon with, maybe raise them "boss in mook clothing" levels. Not to mention how super strong Alakazam is)
  • Clefairy (While it's not that hard to catch, in-lore they do treat Clefairy as rare to encounter. Yet, Team Rocket is just giving them away. Once again, if they have a collection of Clafairy, maybe give some of those to at least the stronger grunts? Find some Moon Stones and evolve them to Clefable)
  • Nidorina (Okay, if they were selling a Nidoran it would have made some sense. Those are presented as easy enough to get so they would be doing what I expected the Game Corner of doing: selling com mons for inflated prices. But no, it's not a Nidoran, they went out of their way to evolve it first! Why? Why not sell a Nidoran and give Nidorina's to the grunts?)
  • SCYTHER (Blue & Yellow)(Okay, maybe it's too much to expect a grunt to raise an Abra to evolve to a Kadabra. But SCYTHER? It comes battle-ready! It would tear apart anyone who wants to get in Team Rocket's way, especially a kid. It's also rare to boot, fitting Giovanni's MO. Why they just giving away in Game Corner?)
  • PINSIR (Red & Yellow)(Copy & paste what I said above about but replace "Scyther" with "Pinsir" and replace "tear apart" to "crush to pieces". In Yellow give a grunt Scyther and Pinsir and he'll be on the road of becoming an admin)
  • DRATINI (Red & Blue)(... Are you serious Giovanni? DRATINI. The Pokemon that evolves into Dragonite, tied to be the 2nd strongest Pokemon in that Gen. You have to be super lucky to encounter one in Safari Zone and ultra lucky to catch it. And you're just giving them away. Cheaper than Porygon! Sure, Dratini ain't thart strong, but it's better than a Rattata! There are also some Rocket grunt in Silph Co with Pokemon over level 30 and trainers (assumed to be disguised members of Team Rocket) in Viridian Gym are all over level 30, one could have a Dragonair!)
Seriously, is casino window dressing the only thing Giovanni really thought he could do with these Pokemon, especially the latter 3?

... Wait, in Gold & Silver they're giving away Mr. Mime & Eevee and Crystal they're giving away LARVITARS?!
 
Pikachu315111 said:
So this just hit me when writing another post.

One of Giovanni's goals in the Gen I games is to amass many rare Pokemon for himself. Also note he just arms his grunts with super common Pokemon.

Yet, in the Celadon Game Corner, they're giving away the following Pokemon:
  • Porygon (The exclusive Pokemon that they stole from Silph Co.. Porygon can only be gotten this way but it's not that strong & doesn't evolve so Giovanni probably thought the best use for it: a shiny prize people would spend thousands of coins to just have the honor or owning (and who knows if Team Rocket didn't figure out a way to create more if need be, thus always having it in the front window to draw in suckers patrons))
  • Abra (Okay, I can see it being useless to give Abra to the weaker grunts as it can only learn Teleport and TMs to make it useful is probably too expensive/rare to waste resources on a low level grunt. But what about the higher level grunts? Even a Kadabra would make one to reckon with, maybe raise them "boss in mook clothing" levels. Not to mention how super strong Alakazam is)
  • Clefairy (While it's not that hard to catch, in-lore they do treat Clefairy as rare to encounter. Yet, Team Rocket is just giving them away. Once again, if they have a collection of Clafairy, maybe give some of those to at least the stronger grunts? Find some Moon Stones and evolve them to Clefable)
  • Nidorina (Okay, if they were selling a Nidoran it would have made some sense. Those are presented as easy enough to get so they would be doing what I expected the Game Corner of doing: selling com mons for inflated prices. But no, it's not a Nidoran, they went out of their way to evolve it first! Why? Why not sell a Nidoran and give Nidorina's to the grunts?)
  • SCYTHER (Blue & Yellow)(Okay, maybe it's too much to expect a grunt to raise an Abra to evolve to a Kadabra. But SCYTHER? It comes battle-ready! It would tear apart anyone who wants to get in Team Rocket's way, especially a kid. It's also rare to boot, fitting Giovanni's MO. Why they just giving away in Game Corner?)
  • PINSIR (Red & Yellow)(Copy & paste what I said above about but replace "Scyther" with "Pinsir" and replace "tear apart" to "crush to pieces". In Yellow give a grunt Scyther and Pinsir and he'll be on the road of becoming an admin)
  • DRATINI (Red & Blue)(... Are you serious Giovanni? DRATINI. The Pokemon that evolves into Dragonite, tied to be the 2nd strongest Pokemon in that Gen. You have to be super lucky to encounter one in Safari Zone and ultra lucky to catch it. And you're just giving them away. Cheaper than Porygon! Sure, Dratini ain't thart strong, but it's better than a Rattata! There are also some Rocket grunt in Silph Co with Pokemon over level 30 and trainers (assumed to be disguised members of Team Rocket) in Viridian Gym are all over level 30, one could have a Dragonair!)
Seriously, is casino window dressing the only thing Giovanni really thought he could do with these Pokemon, especially the latter 3?

... Wait, in Gold & Silver they're giving away Mr. Mime & Eevee and Crystal they're giving away LARVITARS?!
Click to expand...
I thought it was a plan to get masses of money to get even more rare Pokemon, for which selling the already rare ones seems like it would work.
 
CoolMan6001 said:
I thought it was a plan to get masses of money to get even more rare Pokemon, for which selling the already rare ones seems like it would work.
Click to expand...
Still doesn't quite explain why despite seemingly having such a surplus of rare and powerful Pokemon that he can sell them, he still arms his grunts with rats and bats.

My guess is that he doesn't want his grunts to have enough power to overthrow him. From what I've gathered, that seems to be a looming threat in organized crime (or really any group where leadership can be earned through revolution, see many real-life dictators being paranoid nutcases).
 
Codraroll said:
In one instance, Game Freak (well, at least their translators) even adopted a fan term. The term "Shiny Pokémon" was used among the fans ever since GSC, but the phenomenon didn't have an official name until Gen V, I think. Back in the days, Bulbapedia insisted on using the term "alternate coloration" to underline how unofficial the term "shiny" was. And then BW was released, and an NPC in Nimbasa City had adopted the term...
Click to expand...

"Eeveelution" is another case of them officializing a fan term, though so far only in the TCG and English translation of a side game (Pokemon Ranger: Shadows of Almia).
 
DrPumpkinz said:
For some reason they've made a new starting move for the Grass starter two generations in a row. Rowlet had Leafage, and Grookey had Branch Poke. Other Pokemon like Formantis and Phantump also get these moves, so they aren't proper signature moves, but it's definitely still strange.
Click to expand...
I can understand Leafage though. It acts as a weak physical Grass move that can be placed early on things where Vine Whip doesn't make sense. Being leaves, the distribution can end up decent.

Branch Poke however is a waste of a move, due to how specific of requirements something would need to learn it. Grookey should have just used Leafage.

Still, I do hope gen 9 doesn't make another 40 BP physical Grass move for it's starter.
 
CoolMan6001 said:
I can understand Leafage though. It acts as a weak physical Grass move that can be placed early on things where Vine Whip doesn't make sense. Being leaves, the distribution can end up decent.

Branch Poke however is a waste of a move, due to how specific of requirements something would need to learn it. Grookey should have just used Leafage.

Still, I do hope gen 9 doesn't make another 40 BP physical Grass move for it's starter.
Click to expand...
Leafage is "leaf + plumage". It's primarily a flavour move for grass birds.

In that sense, Branch Poke is a more generic move. It's about picking up a stick and prodding the foe with it. I hope Braixen gets it one day, just for the lols.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top