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Sword & Shield Battle Mechanics Research
- Thread starter Marty
- Start date
Since the animation is different when doubled versus not, I was able to test this easily. I had my Surge Pincurchin use Rising Voltage on a Milcery I gave Levitate. Without Mold Breaker, I got the basic animation. But after getting Mold Breaker via Entrainment, I got the boosted animation. So yes, a Pokemon with Mold Breaker (or Terravolt) can use a boosted Rising Voltage on Levitate Pokémon.
I have an oddly specific curiosity:
Say a Spectrier and a Cursola enter a doubles battle against a Pokémon with Neutralizing Gas and a Pokémon that has Throat Chop.
The Pokémon with Throat Chop uses Throat Chop on Spectrier, then uses it on Cursola the next turn. On the third turn, the Pokémon with Neutralizing Gas switches out.
Question: Under the effect of Throat Chop, will the Abilities 'Grim Neigh' and 'Perish Body' still trigger? (Since one seems sound based and the other seems connected with Perish Song.)
Also, are Soundproof Pokémon affected by Perish Body's effect?
Say a Spectrier and a Cursola enter a doubles battle against a Pokémon with Neutralizing Gas and a Pokémon that has Throat Chop.
The Pokémon with Throat Chop uses Throat Chop on Spectrier, then uses it on Cursola the next turn. On the third turn, the Pokémon with Neutralizing Gas switches out.
Question: Under the effect of Throat Chop, will the Abilities 'Grim Neigh' and 'Perish Body' still trigger? (Since one seems sound based and the other seems connected with Perish Song.)
Also, are Soundproof Pokémon affected by Perish Body's effect?
Has anyone looked into the possibility of Slow Start being buffed? With the focus on Regis this DLC and how infamously terrible that ability is it's not a completely absurd possibility
I'd like to propose a re-testing of Life Dew and how it interacts with Allies' Water-Immune abilities in Doubles/Raids. I know it has been tested already and I wouldn't usually doubt the thread, but I have recently seen a video where at one point while doing a Dynamax Adventures raid, the guy claims his mon was being healed more by Life Dew because it had Water Absorb. It could just be that he misunderstood what happened (The video itself doesn't show it happening, he just claimed it happened during a Max Adventure raid), however there is also a chance that it either has different mechanics in Max Adventures only or that the move and/or abilities got a patch when Crown Tundra dropped
While we are at it, if anyone has any chance to, please try out Lapras in a single battle with Life Dew + Water Absorb and the combo of Jungle Healing with a Sap Sipper mon.
While we are at it, if anyone has any chance to, please try out Lapras in a single battle with Life Dew + Water Absorb and the combo of Jungle Healing with a Sap Sipper mon.
Doesn't throat chop only affect moves and not abilities?
Here's a fun little nugget courtesy of the gen 7 source.
Lock-On and Mind Reader are both implemented using the same temporary status flag. This status lasts for 2 turns: one where you actually use Lock-On, then another turn so that you have a window to take advantage of it with a presumably inaccurate move next turn. It's also tied to the continued existence of a specific target on the field, so that if they switch, you don't get the benefit of Lock-On. This much is all mundane and we've known about for years.
There's also another status flag that triggers the same must-hit behavior, but without being tied to a specific target. It looked odd, and it turns out the only thing that sets this flag is...Accuracy-STAB Toxic. Yes, rather than rewrite the move's accuracy in this case, what it does (after checking that the move can't be stolen by Snatch, not least of all because Snatch doesn't exist in Sw/Sh) is apply this must-hit status to the user, but for only 1 turn rather than 2. Of course, normally what happens is it uses that turn to use Toxic with No Guard accuracy, then the one turn is over and it's back to normal for next turn.
But because it's "for the rest of the turn" instead of "for the duration of this single move's execution", you can do some sneaky stuff. Suppose you have a Nidoking that used Toxic last turn. If you then manage to outspeed it with your teammate Scarf Oranguru, you can use Instruct to have it use Toxic again, and because Nidoking is a Poison-type it will get this flag for the rest of the turn. Then when it uses its regular move for the turn, like...I don't know, Horn Drill...that move gets to benefit from No Guard accuracy as well.
If Toxic failed at a point in the success checks prior to step 37, such as if it got beaten by a faster Taunt, that will prevent the always-hit flag from being set. If it fails from some later point (such as opponent already being poisoned, or being a Steel type, or protected by Misty Terrain) then even though Toxic itself doesn't work this time, the flag was already set, and you can still use it for the benefit of your Nidoking Horn Drill or whatever.
DaWoblefet edit: cartridge footage:
[UPDATE] The 1.3.1 patch changes this, so presumably Toxic is now implemented in a way similar to Thunder in rain instead, and this no longer works.
Lock-On and Mind Reader are both implemented using the same temporary status flag. This status lasts for 2 turns: one where you actually use Lock-On, then another turn so that you have a window to take advantage of it with a presumably inaccurate move next turn. It's also tied to the continued existence of a specific target on the field, so that if they switch, you don't get the benefit of Lock-On. This much is all mundane and we've known about for years.
There's also another status flag that triggers the same must-hit behavior, but without being tied to a specific target. It looked odd, and it turns out the only thing that sets this flag is...Accuracy-STAB Toxic. Yes, rather than rewrite the move's accuracy in this case, what it does (after checking that the move can't be stolen by Snatch, not least of all because Snatch doesn't exist in Sw/Sh) is apply this must-hit status to the user, but for only 1 turn rather than 2. Of course, normally what happens is it uses that turn to use Toxic with No Guard accuracy, then the one turn is over and it's back to normal for next turn.
But because it's "for the rest of the turn" instead of "for the duration of this single move's execution", you can do some sneaky stuff. Suppose you have a Nidoking that used Toxic last turn. If you then manage to outspeed it with your teammate Scarf Oranguru, you can use Instruct to have it use Toxic again, and because Nidoking is a Poison-type it will get this flag for the rest of the turn. Then when it uses its regular move for the turn, like...I don't know, Horn Drill...that move gets to benefit from No Guard accuracy as well.
If Toxic failed at a point in the success checks prior to step 37, such as if it got beaten by a faster Taunt, that will prevent the always-hit flag from being set. If it fails from some later point (such as opponent already being poisoned, or being a Steel type, or protected by Misty Terrain) then even though Toxic itself doesn't work this time, the flag was already set, and you can still use it for the benefit of your Nidoking Horn Drill or whatever.
DaWoblefet edit: cartridge footage:
[UPDATE] The 1.3.1 patch changes this, so presumably Toxic is now implemented in a way similar to Thunder in rain instead, and this no longer works.
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That's pretty interesting. This should work if the Poison-type Pokémon gets Dancer as well (although it's more complex to prove as all attacking dancing moves have 100% accuracy, forcing the use of semi-invulnerable turns, evasion-increasing moves, or accuracy-dropping moves).
Would it also apply to Magic Bounce, working with less accurate status moves like Sing? Or does Magic Bounce work differently than cancelling the original move and producing another instance?
Any chance we could have any update on this with the crown tundra released? We know a lot of these moves to be working, and for instance that tail glow no longer works. I'm most curious about specifically Psycho Boost, since it's technically legal on the Lugia from gen 3. I assume psycho boost still doesn't work, but I haven't seen anyone verify whether or not it does.
What does it say?
First line of the move description is “this move cannot be used” (very much could be wrong my Japanese is not good) assumedly it’s the unusable move message? Do other unusable moves have move stats still listed?
Here you go:
Aerilate, Bad Dreams, Battle Bond, Color Change, Comatose, Dancer, Dazzling, Delta Stream, Desolate Land, Forecast, Galvanize, Grass Pelt, Magma Armor, Multitype, Neuroforce, Normalize, Parental Bond, Poison Heal, Power of Alchemy, Primordial Sea, Protean, Pure Power, Shields Down, Toxic Boost
Beak Blast, Chatter, Dark Void, Hyper Fang, Hyperspace Fury, Hyperspace Hole, Ice Hammer, Judgment, Light of Ruin, Relic Song, Revelation Dance, Seed Flare, Sketch, Tail Glow, Toxic Thread
To answer specifically, Psycho Boost is not clickable, no, as the above Japanese Twitter showed, though it is of course now obtainable. Here's the full list of moves that are unclickable (credit to Anubis):
Assist, Baddy Bad, Barrage, Barrier, Beak Blast, Bestow, Bide, Bone Club, Bouncy Bubble, Bubble, Buzzy Buzz, Camouflage ,Captivate, Chatter, Chip Away, Clamp, Comet Punch, Constrict, Dark Void, Dizzy Punch, Double Slap, Dragon Rage, Egg Bomb, Embargo, Feint Attack, Flame Burst, Flash, Floaty Fall, Foresight, Freezy Frost, Frustration, Glitzy Glow, Grass Whistle, Heal Block, Heal Order, Heart Stamp, Heart Swap, Hidden Power, Hyper Fang, Hyperspace Fury, Hyperspace Hole, Ice Ball, Ice Hammer, Ion Deluge, Judgment, Jump Kick, Karate Chop, Light of Ruin, Lucky Chant, Magnet Bomb, Magnitude, Me First, Meditate, Miracle Eye, Mirror Move, Mirror Shot, Mud Bomb, Mud Sport, Natural Gift, Needle Arm, Nightmare, Odor Sleuth, Ominous Wind, Pika Papow, Powder, Psycho Boost, Psywave, Punishment, Pursuit, Rage, Razor Wind, Refresh, Relic Song, Return, Revelation Dance, Rock Climb, Rolling Kick, Rototiller, Sappy Seed, Secret Power, Seed Flare, Sharpen, Signal Beam, Silver Wind, Sizzly Slide, Sketch, Sky Drop, Sky Uppercut, Smelling Salts, Snatch, Sonic Boom, Sparkly Swirl, Spider Web, Spike Cannon, Splishy Splash, Spotlight, Steamroller, Synchronoise, Tail Glow, Telekinesis, Toxic Thread, Trump Card, Twineedle, Veevee Volley, Wake-Up Slap, Water Sport, Wring Out, Zippy Zap, and all the Z-moves
Notice that all unobtainable moves are also currently unclickable.
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You are correct: "This move cannot be used. The capability to recall it will be lost, but it is recommended that the move be forgotten."
I never saw the in-game interface for this situation before, but from what I've heard it seems like the regular way of expressing that a move is deprecated.
- The effect of Core Enforcer is identical to Gastro Acid as far as ability negations go; Gastro Acid can stop Neutralizing Gas, so Core Enforcer can too.
- Core Enforcer can't disable As One because Gastro Acid can't disable As One.
- Gastro Acid can only fail to disable those abilities like Disguise, Gulp Missile, or RKS System that can't be interacted with at all. So if Gastro Acid fails on some Ability, it also can't be Skill Swapped / Role Played / Worry Seeded / etc.
- Right, Core Enforcer must be used after the target has moved in the turn for it to take the target's ability; switching isn't enough to fulfill Core Enforcer's ability negation condition, just like last generation.
- Whichever Pokemon used Lunar Dance / Healing Wish first will heal its target first (like a queue). The next one is further stored for later.
- If you use multiple Healing Wish (presumably multiple Lunar Dance), only the first Healing Wish / Lunar Dance is stored.
- Healing Wish -> Lunar Dance -> Healing Wish restores 1 Healing Wish first, then 1 Lunar Dance.
Throat Chop only affects sound moves. It doesn't affect Abilities at all, independently of how "sound-like" they are. Liquid Voice isn't negated under Throat Chop either, for example. Soundproof similarly only blocks sound moves, so it doesn't stop Perish Body from going off.
Only in the sense of it not halving Sp. Atk Max Moves like it halved Sp. Atk Z-moves last generation. It functions identically to previous gens (Attack and Speed halved for 5 turns until it gets its act together).
Life Dew + Water Absorb is unchanged (you only heal 25%, from Water Absorb). With regards to Jungle Healing + Sap Sipper:
- If the user has Sap Sipper and Jungle Healing, it will restore its own HP and status condition.
- If the other Pokemon has Sap Sipper and its ally uses Jungle Healing, the non-Jungle Healing user will activate Sap Sipper and not restore its own HP nor heal its status conndition.
Yes, the sure-hit flag is set with Toxic used by a Poison-type Magic Bounce Pokemon. And yes, any move subsequently used in the turn will be sure-hit, such as Sing etc. OHKO moves are just funnier!
Again, please do not post in this thread if you have not tested the mechanic yourself. All of Moxie, Beast Boost, and the Neigh abilities can receive a boost upon KOing some target with Future Sight. Soul-Heart is completely different from these first 3; the first 3 activate when that Pokemon takes a KO, whereas Soul-Heart gets a boost when any Pokemon on the field faints (which is why it's so good in doubles).
And finally, a couple other things:
- Hunger Switch's ability:
- Can be changed by the following effects: Hunger Switch user uses Role Play / some target uses Entrainment on Hunger Switch / Simple Beam / Worry Seed /Mummy
- Can be negated by Gastro Acid / Neutralizing Gas
- Cannot be changed by the following effects: some target uses Role Play on Hunger Switch / Skill Swap on user or target / Hunger Switch user uses Entrainment / Receiver / Wandering Spirit
- Gulp Missile and Ice Face can't be negated by Gastro Acid.
- If a self-hit confusion brings the user below 50% and prevents eating a Sitrus Berry, healing to less than 50% is still not enough to trigger Sitrus Berry (e.g. with Life Dew); the Sitrus Berry holder must take damage.
- When Mirror Armor attempts to switch in on Sticky Web, it tries to activate Mirror Armor to lower the Speed of the Pokemon that originally used Sticky Web instead. If that original Sticky Web Pokemon isn't currently on the field, it will say "[Mirror Armor Pokemon] was caught in a sticky web!", then Mirror Armor will not activate and no Pokemon's Speed will be lowered.
I did some testing regarding Future Sight, Roost, and Psychic Terrain. I had a Level 100 Noctowl with 189 Sp. Atk target a Level 100 Indeedee-F with 244 Sp. Def and a Level 100 Manectric with 153 Sp. Def. I found the following:
- Future Sight is boosted if the user is grounded via Roost on the turn it hits
- Noctowl used Roost, and Indeedee was hit for 44 damage
- Future Sight is not boosted if the Roost user switches out before the move hits
- Noctowl used Roost, Manectric used Roar to switch Noctowl for Indeedee, and Manetric was hit for 107 damage
- Future Sight is not boosted if the Roost user switches out and then back in before the move hits
- Noctowl used Roost, then was Eject Buttoned out to Wimpod, which switched back to Noctowl after Stealth Rock damage. Indeedee was then hit for 39 damage. Noctowl also took normal Stealth Rock damage when switched back in.
- I used Electrify on an Alakazam that used Teleport on the turn Future Sight hit. Future Sight did not become Electric type.
- If two Future Sights hit on the same turn, and the first one triggers Wimp Out, the Pokémon with Wimp Out switches out, but the second Future Sight will hit before you select the Pokémon to switch in.
Can a Pikachu, Eevee, or Meowth that has been given the Gigantamax Factor through Max Soup evolve? Likewise, can the gift G-max Pikachu, Eevee, and Meowth evolve if their Gigantamax Factor is taken away through Max Soup?
why are you using a ps replay to cite an untested in-game mechanic
Skill Swap is a thing that exists. As One (which includes one of the Neigh abilities in its function, and notably attributes the stat boosts to that ability rather than to As One when it triggers by a KO) can't be swapped, but all the other abilities can, and doing so is only a minor engineering obstacle. Considering the lengths we have to go to to test some of these things, when we could use any of...hm, what was it...
...no, the concept of "Future Sight user watches its own KO while it has Moxie or a clone thereof" is nowhere near farfetched(-Galar) enough to be unthinkable as the use case someone is trying to test.
So what you're saying is that there *is* a Pokemon which gets Future Sight and a Moxie clone -- namely, Calyrex. Which, for the record, is what I interpreted the question as asking about. Given that Toxic doesn't trigger Moxie even if the Moxie user laid the status, it wasn't clear to me whether Future Sight was similarly regarded as "always passive damage", and I can see good reasons for Calyrex-Shadow to run the move.
This is correct; if the Moxie / Beast Boost / Neigh are simply out on the field when Future Sight takes a KO, that's not enough to give them the boost. I took the questioner to mean something else; what if the Moxie / Beast Boost / Neigh user takes a KO with Future Sight? I have cartridge footage of this interaction which can be reviewed if you don't believe me (in fairness, I did not link to this footage in my original reply).
I should mention that you should never use Showdown to test mechanics for this thread. Many times this thread is used to inform Showdown of new mechanics to implement. We always want to see what the game itself does so Showdown, a simulator, can accurately simulate it. So it's important when you want to answer questions in this thread to make sure you test the stuff yourself in-game. I think we're both on the same page with not wanting to spread misinformation!
Forgot to mention this before, but yes, Slow Start does weaken Body Press, just like Choice Band, Huge Power, and burn all affect Body Press too.