-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
Project Metagame Workshop (OM Submissions CLOSED)
- Thread starter drampa's grandpa
- Start date
- Status
changing some ubers abilities to an 'inferiour' one won't solve the fact that they are broken. Palkia, Dialga, giratina, mewtwo, etc. aren't broken because of pressure, they are broken because of their stats, movepools or a combination of them. This change won't balance a lot of the ubers and you also restrict some random other mons like metagross for example.
This would just play out like an ever so slightly weaker ubers metagame.
Make it OU and maybe you've got something. Maybe. Probably not. But maybe. It's better than your other ideas.
(Note that Pokémon actually weigh in multiples of 100g; lbs are just provided for convenience of backward societies that haven't metricated yet.)
Disobedientmons
Depending on how many allies are left, each turn your Pokémon has a 10% per ally chance of disobeying and using a different move instead. This can change your Choice lock. Only applies when you're actually selecting a move, so not e.g. on the second turn of Solar Beam or Outrage.
Disobedientmons
Depending on how many allies are left, each turn your Pokémon has a 10% per ally chance of disobeying and using a different move instead. This can change your Choice lock. Only applies when you're actually selecting a move, so not e.g. on the second turn of Solar Beam or Outrage.
The choice lock thing is kinda interesting, but it just seems like an RNG fest.
Okay so...I have an idea. What if...
...every pokemon had the same stats as the lead pokemon? This would be an OU Metagame.
It would take a long while to list all of the pokemon that would benefit from this.
It would take a long while to list all of the pokemon that would benefit from this.
Type boost:
The attacks of the type of the first Pokemon you send out get boosted by 50% for the whole team for the whole match
Example: You send out Magearna on your first turn. Your opponent sends out Landorus on his first turn.
For the whole game your steel and fairy attacks are boosted by 50%, while your opponents flying and ground types are boosted by 50%.
If 50% boost is too much, the boost could also be lower like 33% or 25%.
The attacks of the type of the first Pokemon you send out get boosted by 50% for the whole team for the whole match
Example: You send out Magearna on your first turn. Your opponent sends out Landorus on his first turn.
For the whole game your steel and fairy attacks are boosted by 50%, while your opponents flying and ground types are boosted by 50%.
If 50% boost is too much, the boost could also be lower like 33% or 25%.
Permanence:
All pokemon stat changes, as well as some secondary effects, are permanent for the entire battle. Get intimidated by a lando? you're still going to be -1 next time you switch in. Get a swords dance up? You can switch out and come back later still at +2. Switch into sticky web multiple times? every single switch in is another -1 speed. I also think confusion and leech seed would stay on but no substitutes because that might be TOO broken.
Potential bans and threats:
Belly drum might be too much for this meta. Special attackers would also have an advantage with no intimidate to mess with them. I honestly think this might not even be as offensive a meta as you might originally think, with mons being able to amnessia/iron defense and bulk up all over the place. Haze would definitely be one of the most important moves to have as well as high crit chance moves/abilities
All pokemon stat changes, as well as some secondary effects, are permanent for the entire battle. Get intimidated by a lando? you're still going to be -1 next time you switch in. Get a swords dance up? You can switch out and come back later still at +2. Switch into sticky web multiple times? every single switch in is another -1 speed. I also think confusion and leech seed would stay on but no substitutes because that might be TOO broken.
Potential bans and threats:
Belly drum might be too much for this meta. Special attackers would also have an advantage with no intimidate to mess with them. I honestly think this might not even be as offensive a meta as you might originally think, with mons being able to amnessia/iron defense and bulk up all over the place. Haze would definitely be one of the most important moves to have as well as high crit chance moves/abilities
Why this is not a meta already I don't know why.
Perish Song could be used to force both players to pick a sack every third turn, since there's no getting rid of the perish count.
Regenerator mons like Slowbro might be too strong; able to set up while keeping Regenerator momentum.
Stall in general, like you said, might be too strong as stall can get a +2 defense/spd switchin from turn one (meanwhile the 1 boost the phys attcker gets is relatively smaller compared to usefulness of a stall member, but it might matter more)
SD on choice banded mons could be interesting on a predicted switch, now you are at effective +4 when forced out anyway
afaik its just stat changes, and not other semipermeables like confuse and psong
Put this in the wrong place beforehand, but now that’s I know this is a thing I want want to put it here.
Hi there. Not sure if this was the right place to put this.
I have been playing in Showdown for a bit now. And I do appreciate the battle formats, they are really fun. Mostly, like a lot of people I suspect, I have been playing in Random singles and double battles. It’s really fun, and sometimes a challenge to see what you can do with a randomly generated team.
However, I have some opposition to the way the format ends up, namely that Dynamaxing and the occasional Uber-mon results in the game mode being a little unbalanced.
My solution? OU Random battles. No Uber-tier Pokemon. No Dynamaxing. Only Pokémon from ranks OU and below will be randomly placed into teams, and no Dynamaxing makes it a more unique and fun gameplay that still uses the expanded Galarian Pokédex while being more balanced and possibly more fun.
Just a thought, take it as you will.
Hi there. Not sure if this was the right place to put this.
I have been playing in Showdown for a bit now. And I do appreciate the battle formats, they are really fun. Mostly, like a lot of people I suspect, I have been playing in Random singles and double battles. It’s really fun, and sometimes a challenge to see what you can do with a randomly generated team.
However, I have some opposition to the way the format ends up, namely that Dynamaxing and the occasional Uber-mon results in the game mode being a little unbalanced.
My solution? OU Random battles. No Uber-tier Pokemon. No Dynamaxing. Only Pokémon from ranks OU and below will be randomly placed into teams, and no Dynamaxing makes it a more unique and fun gameplay that still uses the expanded Galarian Pokédex while being more balanced and possibly more fun.
Just a thought, take it as you will.
There is something like that called "Battle Factory", where it's a Random Battle that takes place in a random tier (From Ubers to PU plus LC and Monotype) that uses viable sets from that tier and has team preview (I'd assume the Gen 8 version would not use Dynamax). The Gen 7 version still has a ladder, but I'm guessing the Gen 8 version hasn't been made yet since all the metagames have to settle down first.
While this meta seems interesting for a tour, I don't think it would have enough lasting interest to sustain a fully developed metagame, especially because the limited choices make balance likely impossible.Apparently nobody suggested this yet (perhaps for good reason)
Dexit Meta
Premise: The only Pokemon allowed are those currently not obtainable in Sword and Shield.
Explanation: I've seen a lot of SwSh based OMs and NatDex based OMs, but nothing based on the Pokemon which aren't available by any means. So I wondered what a metagame would look like if only the cut Pokemon could be used; think of it like the ones left behind trying to form a metagame as all their friends and foes were shipped off to Galar.
After two rounds of DLC, turns out there's not much left. Here's a list of FE Pokemon that would be available and not Uber:
(lmao)
Definite Bans:
Darkrai, Greninja-Ash, Arceus, Shaymin-Sky, Deoxys, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Speed, Unown (For stability reasons)
Potential Bans:
Deoxys-Defense, Greninja, Hoopa-Unbound, Staraptor, Gliscor
Observations:
This gives me serious Clean Slate vibes in the sense it's a super-condensed "micro-meta," and is reminiscent of older generations like RBY/GSC where the amount of Pokemon was just naturally small and you had to work with what you got. The pool of available Pokemon is absolutely tiny, and I think that opens up a lot of interesting teambuilding challenges.
For example:
Granbull and Florges are the only two fully-evolved Fairy types in the game.
There are ZERO Dragons.
Like Fast Electric types? There's only two that have over 100 Speed.
Steels are reaching PU territory of scarce.
Like Ice types? There's only two.
Like Normal and Bug types? We've plenty of those.
There's a combination of really strong Pokemon intermixed with some really niche options and some stuff which has been unviable for generations. Big names in Greninja, Gliscor, Serperior, Infernape, Hoopa, Empoleon, Breloom, Alolan Muk, Staraptor, Deoxys-Defense, and Manaphy, some mid-tier Pokes with sizeable viability such Forretress, Feraligatr, Swellow, Yanmega, Shaymin, Alomomola, Meloetta, Florges, and Venomoth, and some really strange options which I can't recall the last time they were important like Grumpig, Arbok, Golem, Electrode, Probopass, Floatzel, Zebstrika, Sawsbuck, Bruxish, and freaking Hypno.
I think this would end up being a really interesting meta if some of the more problematic Pokemon were banned, but it also could be... lame? There's not a lot of stand-out Pokemon and it could end up super-centralized as a result. On the other hand, it'd be nice to get to use these long-forgotten (mostly) Pokemon of the past.
I wanted to make something that brought these Pokemon back, not sure if there is enough going on here however. So I'm wondering: would you be interested in playing such a meta? Do you have ideas on how we can make things more interesting?
Other questions:
Do we allow any potential new moves listed here?
Would you like to see Mega Evolutions enabled? Medicham-Mega would probably get banned, maybe Beedrill too
Would you like to see lost moves returned? Unown would still be trash
The metagame seems to rest squarely on the backs of Alomomola, Muk-Alola, and Gliscor.
Hoopa-Unbound is, without a doubt, broken. Greninja is almost as surely borky, although Alomomola can punish it.
Serperior will plow through most teams. SubSeed or SubGlare will let it push through even Muk-A thanks to lack of recovery
Medicham has almost no switchins. Alomomola is the closest viable thing and it just dies to Band Thunder Punch or Bulk Up + whatever. Everything else just dies except... Granbull. Lol. I think Breloom is in much the same boat.
Staraptor is strong. Burd hit hurd. Ban prob.
No. No. No. All of these make this a Pet Mod, not an OM, something this already treads very close to.
Overall: I'd welcome this as a submission as a tour with a little tweaking of the banlist, considering what defensive counterplay actually exists to stuff. If it is extremely successful and popular as a tour we could discuss it going beyond that but don't get your hopes too high there.
This seems like it would garner negligible interest. Old gens with fewer mons is something Ruins of Alph would maybe do? But I would not approve this, it just doesn't offer enough over either old gen OU or current gen stuff.
As Urkerab said this is essentially Reliablemons. I would not personally object to seeing a Reliablemons revival. You may want to check out the old thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/reliablemons.3515558/
This isn't how most of these work. Rain Dance summons the rain field effect. The field effect doesn't care what type Rain Dance is, and will always boost the Water type and weaken the Fire type. Pretty much all of these are wrong except for the Flash Fire interaction from Will-O-Wisp, which is based on type not the move itself.
Also Thunder Wave would fail against types immune to it and hit Ground if not Electric. Electric types remain immune to Paralysis though.
I'm going to ask you to put a bit more thought and effort into your posts and ideas. Nobody is going to pay attention to any of them if there are 3+ ideas to a page and all undeveloped concepts of 1-2 lines. Before posting consider: what makes your idea unique? What makes it worth playing over standard tiers or other OMs? What would you need to do to make it balanced? And then tell us why we should be interested.
I could see something along the lines of punishment based on remaining mons working, but disobedience is RNG-heavy and icky. Ideally you'd want something that didn't punish any playstyle too heavily. I was thinking increased damage per mon down, although that makes stall very difficult. It doesn't completely eliminate suicide leads though which is nice. Stall usually tries not to have stuff die anyway.
This seems interesting and super hard to balance. Stored Power and Power Trip need to be banned for sure. Charm and other stat lowering moves would be nice. If you submit this we'll certainly consider it, although we may decide it will be too over the top broken. Not that that always stops a meta from being popular ;]
You need a new name, Follow the Leader is something else in OMs. Movepool and maybe ability I don't remember not stats. Frankly I think that Follow the Leader is superior to this idea in terms of how interesting and flexible it is in teambuilding.
Old thread: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/follow-the-leader.3603860/
I'll definitely work to get my 20 posts in and submit it. id love to see this meta play out even if it turns out to be too much
Frozen in Time:
this is a pretty similar idea to lockdown except the affect is perma every turn and the permaness is every turn. Anything that lasts a certain amount of time now lasts forever including screens and trick room.
Some bans might be aloraichu because it abuses eleterrain hard and some slow trick room abusers
this is a pretty similar idea to lockdown except the affect is perma every turn and the permaness is every turn. Anything that lasts a certain amount of time now lasts forever including screens and trick room.
Some bans might be aloraichu because it abuses eleterrain hard and some slow trick room abusers
Trick room can be countered by trick room. Trapping moves are worth banning because trapping forever would be broken
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/om-index-sun-moon-edition.3587933/#post-7104137
Maybe "Grookey See, Grookey Do?" And how can I improve on this idea? Maybe I can build on the past OM? Can I have a little more feedback on this one?
You could take it further and only have Dexit moves legal. I submitted this as an OM a while ago and got denied. It’s just a banlistApparently nobody suggested this yet (perhaps for good reason)
Dexit Meta
Premise: The only Pokemon allowed are those currently not obtainable in Sword and Shield.
Explanation: I've seen a lot of SwSh based OMs and NatDex based OMs, but nothing based on the Pokemon which aren't available by any means. So I wondered what a metagame would look like if only the cut Pokemon could be used; think of it like the ones left behind trying to form a metagame as all their friends and foes were shipped off to Galar.
After two rounds of DLC, turns out there's not much left. Here's a list of FE Pokemon that would be available and not Uber:
Definite Bans:
Darkrai, Greninja-Ash, Arceus, Shaymin-Sky, Deoxys, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Speed, Unown (For stability reasons)
Potential Bans:
Deoxys-Defense, Greninja, Hoopa-Unbound, Staraptor, Gliscor
Observations:
This gives me serious Clean Slate vibes in the sense it's a super-condensed "micro-meta," and is reminiscent of older generations like RBY/GSC where the amount of Pokemon was just naturally small and you had to work with what you got. The pool of available Pokemon is absolutely tiny, and I think that opens up a lot of interesting teambuilding challenges.
For example:
Granbull and Florges are the only two fully-evolved Fairy types in the game.
There are ZERO Dragons.
Like Fast Electric types? There's only two that have over 100 Speed.
Steels are reaching PU territory of scarce.
Like Ice types? There's only two.
Like Normal and Bug types? We've plenty of those.
There's a combination of really strong Pokemon intermixed with some really niche options and some stuff which has been unviable for generations. Big names in Greninja, Gliscor, Serperior, Infernape, Hoopa, Empoleon, Breloom, Alolan Muk, Staraptor, Deoxys-Defense, and Manaphy, some mid-tier Pokes with sizeable viability such Forretress, Feraligatr, Swellow, Yanmega, Shaymin, Alomomola, Meloetta, Florges, and Venomoth, and some really strange options which I can't recall the last time they were important like Grumpig, Arbok, Golem, Electrode, Probopass, Floatzel, Zebstrika, Sawsbuck, Bruxish, and freaking Hypno.
I think this would end up being a really interesting meta if some of the more problematic Pokemon were banned, but it also could be... lame? There's not a lot of stand-out Pokemon and it could end up super-centralized as a result. On the other hand, it'd be nice to get to use these long-forgotten (mostly) Pokemon of the past.
I wanted to make something that brought these Pokemon back, not sure if there is enough going on here however. So I'm wondering: would you be interested in playing such a meta? Do you have ideas on how we can make things more interesting?
Other questions:
Do we allow any potential new moves listed here?
Would you like to see Mega Evolutions enabled? Medicham-Mega would probably get banned, maybe Beedrill too
Would you like to see lost moves returned? Unown would still be trash
Last edited:
Anyways, I have a new OM idea.
Pokemon exchange a boost for a loss depending on your slot.
1 - HP Heals by 25% every turn, All incoming attacks will land no matter what.
2 - 50% Attack Boost, 50% Defense Drop
3 - 50% Defense Boost, 50% Attack Drop
4 - 50% Special Attack, 50% Special Defense Drop
5 - 50% Special Defense, 50% Special Attack Drop
6 - 50% Speed Boost, Ability Nullified
I feel like Archeops would benefit from this meta, losing that horrible ability and becoming very speedy. Chansey would MURDER stall and be able to become very defensive, more than it already was.
Do you think I should change the boosts?
1 - HP Heals by 25% every turn, All incoming attacks will land no matter what.
2 - 50% Attack Boost, 50% Defense Drop
3 - 50% Defense Boost, 50% Attack Drop
4 - 50% Special Attack, 50% Special Defense Drop
5 - 50% Special Defense, 50% Special Attack Drop
6 - 50% Speed Boost, Ability Nullified
I feel like Archeops would benefit from this meta, losing that horrible ability and becoming very speedy. Chansey would MURDER stall and be able to become very defensive, more than it already was.
Do you think I should change the boosts?
Special Reunion
In the transition from Pokemon RGBY to GSC, the split between the Special stat into the Special Attack and Special Defense was made to balance Pokemon such as Alakazam who had its Special incredibly high. For Kanto Pokemon, they either had identical SpA/SpD (such as Dragonite), gained in one or the other stat (such as Snorlax), or took a lose in one of those stats (such as Alakazam).
In this metagame, the SpA and SpD of all Pokemon will be unionized by the average (rounded down) of their Specials into 1 Special stat, and moves that boost either will be boosting by the same stages but for just the Special stat.
As an example:
In this meta, Togekiss will have the following stats
85/50/95/117/80.
Here, instead of having a 120 Special Attack or Special Defense 115, Togekiss now has a 117 Special instead. This is because the average of 120 and 115 is 117.5. This is rounded down to be a whole number.
Let’s also examine some special (pun intended) cases with moves, abilities, and items:
Boosting moves that boost one stat:
Moves such as Nasty Plot, Amnesia, and Charge Beam will boost the entire Special stat by how many stages they raise their respective stat. Nasty Plot will raise Special by 2 stages, Amnesia will raise Special by 2 stages, and Charge Beam will raise Special by 1 stage.
Boosting moves that boost both stats:
Moves such as Calm Mind, Quiver Dance, and Geomancy will simply have the boosts condenced. Calm Mind will raise Special by 1 stage, Quiver Dance raises Special by 1 stage and speed by 1 stage, and Geomancy will raise Special by 2 stages and Speed by 2 stages.
Shell Smash:
Due to Shell Smash decreasing Special Defense while increasing Special Attack by 2 stages, Shell Smash will instead increase Special by 1 stage. The reasoning is that when Shell Smash is used, it will have a turn that would decrease Special by 1 stage (when subtracting the user’s bulk stages), then increase Special by 2 stages (when adding the offensive stages). This just nets the user with +1 Special each use of Shell Smash.
Ice Scales:
Due to its fuctionality, Ice Scales will reduce Special damage, not double your Special.
Eviolite:
Edit: Apparently, Eviolite does indeed boost SpD, and it’s just that Body Press has a weird interaction with Eviolite and Choice Band.
Choice Specs/Wise Lens:
This item, like with Choice Band/Muscle Band, increases the damage of moves, not your actual stats. Again, you can see this with Body Press being more powerful with Choice Band/Muscle Band.
Assault Vest:
It’s pretty hard to say for sure, as there is no Def version if Assault Vest. However, with Psyshock/Secret Sword, we can see that Assault Vest does indeed increase Special Defense, so it will increase the Special Stat by x1.5.
Sand Stream/Sandstorm Weather:
Similar to Assault Vest, this increases your Special Stat instead of decreasing special attacks, so it will increase the Special of Rock types in Sand by x1.5 as well.
Light Ball/Clamper Items:
Light Ball will increase Pikachu’s Special by x2, and so will Deep Sea Scale/Tooth for Clamperl (if it does get released in the future)
Potential Bans and Threats
Assault Vest is essentially a Choice Specs that reduces Special Damage and has a much kinder restriction than being Choice Locked. The only setback is that you can’t use Amnesia or Nasty Plot. It will easily be the top of the threat list and likely banned early on.
Amnesia/Nasty Plot/Cosmic Power:
With Amnesia and Nasty Plot, you are essentially giving a Pokemon 2 Calm Minds in 1 turn, while Cosmic Power is essentially Calm Mind if it boosted Defense as well.
in Sand:With Sand, Rock types get a free Special boost, and these have excellent Specials as well. Diancie being the biggest threat here as it gets Amnesia, an amazing Special movepool, and a strong Def.
:Both packing Unaware make them incredible at beating opposing Amnesia abusers. You either have to beat them before they boost, bypass their Amnesia boosts, or hit them physically.
:Even with a Special stat if 66, its Simple Nasty Plot, Timid gives Swoobat 693 Special, which is higher than 255 with Modest, and almost reaches Blissey’s HP. It does have weak physical bulk and Stored Power won’t be as strong as its regular Calm Mind.
Questions:
-What restricts should be added to Nasty Plot, Amnesia, and Cosmic Power?
-How should Assault Vest and Sand be handled differently?
-What about Natures? Especially Careful and Rash?
Last edited:
- Status