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Social LGBTQIA+

dice said:
I am sorry your experiences with this world building and community have led you to believe as such, Valk. I hope you find space and community which leads you to believe more strongly about their enmeshment. Universalizing your own experiences for dramatic effect (in the weirdest place for a gotcha, too) however, seems to be the most self-aggrandizing action on this page.
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Queerness and anti-capitalism are bound in many ways, but capitalism is not found in skin color or gender or sexual orientation, it's merely a form of distributing power. So no, queerness is NOT anti-capitalist axiomatically as there are myriad examples of queer peoples or peoples of other oppressed minorities building their own space amidst the power structure and leveraging it against people with shared identities. This is quite literally: the exact same reasoning Crux employs for asexuality not necessarily being inherently LGBT. Queerness is only anti-capitalist in practicality, in the sense that our current capitalist system serves those who devalue queerness. (coincidentally, how asexuality is queer in practicality in the sense that the predominant function of sexuality in society is based around... having it.)

As for "universalizing my own experiences", I assume you mean the interpretation where you are coming off as morally superior, then you have to truly reflect and see that's what the majority of this entire conflict has ACTUALLY been about. We've been dancing around the tone policing in this thread for days, and I couldn't give a hoot about it under normal circumstances, but when you're trying to be persuasive to people, that's the number one thing that's blocking you from ACTUALLY building a community that is as you describe.

Please don't take my post as a gotcha, it's an attempt to make you recognize the affect you are having and how effective it is in its intentions. I agree with you for the most part, but the conflict going on in this community right now isn't built around ideas, it's built around interpersonal relations. Using rhetoric that is better suited in a speech at a rally to galvanize the undecided to tangible political action isn't going to be as effective in fixing the overall impression that you and crux and the overall "discourse havers" view yourselves as superior in some way.
 
Sorry to interrupt the discussion but I realized I never came to say hi to the LGBTQ+ gang here. I'm Nol, I'm aromantic and bisexual, and I'm very happy to see a thread for this kind of representation on Smogon!

Figuring out my place took me forever because I wasn't aware there was a word for aromantic until I took a Psychology course in my freshman year of college and we talked about sexuality and how romantic and sexual attraction aren't necessarily always the same, and my professor brought up aromanticism and what it means, and it all kind of clicked for me from there.

Glad to meet you all!
 
Nol said:
Sorry to interrupt the discussion but I realized I never came to say hi to the LGBTQ+ gang here. I'm Nol, I'm aromantic and bisexual, and I'm very happy to see a thread for this kind of representation on Smogon!

Figuring out my place took me forever because I wasn't aware there was a word for aromantic until I took a Psychology course in my freshman year of college and we talked about sexuality and how romantic and sexual attraction aren't necessarily always the same, and my professor brought up aromanticism and what it means, and it all kind of clicked for me from there.

Glad to meet you all!
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Sometimes all it takes is hearing the term, and that's great
sometimes it's a seemingly neverending struggle with identity
 
Hi im a trans lesbian (i also like to call myself the d slur but also i know most arent comfortable with that so lol). I actually dont know what the fuck you're supposed to write in these coming out posts but women hot.

I wanted to discuss stuff here but i realized that my pov is honestly irrelevant as I live in a country thats completly different from the us, both in lgbt politics and how lgbt groups discuss (other than twitter but no one cares about twitter discourse lol). So instead just a chill post. I hope you guys are safe and well.
 
Collette said:
makes me all the more interested in what you would have to say or a fresh pov if you wanted to, but either way hi!
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I guess its just hard for me because, since my only contact with non-brazilian lgbt stuff is the internet, theres probably a lot of gaps on my knowledge on what groups from these countries belive is best for them.

sure, i could come in and say, just a random example of course, that brazilian trans women usually hate being associated with blue, but it may be of little value if american trans women love the association and embrace it. who am I to say theyre wrong? I dont really want to step on toes with assumptions that probably arent correct, or arent very useful.

of course, if people are fine with it, I can discuss some differences in community, but i'll try to not impose stuff along the way.
and before i forget: hello :]
 
Lemingue said:
sure, i could come in and say, just a random example of course, that brazilian trans women usually hate being associated with blue, but it may be of little value if american trans women love the association and embrace it. who am I to say theyre wrong? I dont really want to step on toes with assumptions that probably arent correct, or arent very useful.
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What's the reason that they don't like being associated with blue? Something with blue being a traditional color for baby boys or something?
 
hey all, didn't know this was a thing and I'm ever so glad it is! just thought I'd introduce myself, I'm Dratios and I'm ace, took me a while to find out that it was something that existed and even longer to be comfortable identifying with it. when I did get to that point I really leaned into it though, to the point where I dyed my hair purple, partially because it looked cool but mostly because it matched the ace flag lol
 
So, I've been thinking this over the past night. Well, actually, that'd be a lie...this has been going on for years. But I think I'm approaching the light at the end of the tunnel.

I've always identified as Biromantic and transgender, but never really been sure about what my sexuality actually is. I kind of defaulted to bisexual considering my romantic orientation, but it doesn't seem to be the truth. To clarify, my sexuality hasn't played a role in my romantic orientation nor my gender identity. It's hard to explain, everyone has their own stories.

Ever since I experienced trauma at a young age I've never really...felt anything, sexually. Even with pornographic material, there's just nothing. All it does is drive me back into the rut. I've tried to get help for this, but mental health services in the UK are awful. Hell, they got the police involved when I first came out about it without my permission. I've since made leaps on my own in overcoming that trauma these past few years, but...

I've been beginning to think that this thing with my sexuality isn't just my trauma anymore. Surely there's something there? Am I asexual? Or is it my standards? Is the answer right in front of me?

I guess these aren't questions anyone but me can answer, considering how personal this is. Just needed to write this somewhere, I suppose? It's a weird situation and I'm not really sure where to go from here. I'll probably work it out as I go about my life, no need to force it.
 
Plague von Karma said:
So, I've been thinking this over the past night. Well, actually, that'd be a lie...this has been going on for years. But I think I'm approaching the light at the end of the tunnel.

I've always identified as Biromantic and transgender, but never really been sure about what my sexuality actually is. I kind of defaulted to bisexual considering my romantic orientation, but it doesn't seem to be the truth. To clarify, my sexuality hasn't played a role in my romantic orientation nor my gender identity. It's hard to explain, everyone has their own stories.

Ever since I experienced trauma at a young age I've never really...felt anything, sexually. Even with pornographic material, there's just nothing. All it does is drive me back into the rut. I've tried to get help for this, but mental health services in the UK are awful. Hell, they got the police involved when I first came out about it without my permission. I've since made leaps on my own in overcoming that trauma these past few years, but...

I've been beginning to think that this thing with my sexuality isn't just my trauma anymore. Surely there's something there? Am I asexual? Or is it my standards? Is the answer right in front of me?

I guess these aren't questions anyone but me can answer, considering how personal this is. Just needed to write this somewhere, I suppose? It's a weird situation and I'm not really sure where to go from here. I'll probably work it out as I go about my life, no need to force it.
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I resonate with many parts of this message since I was in a very similar position years ago. I think probably the most important thing to remember when it comes to matters of identity is that there never is any one specific thing that we "actually" are besides ourselves. The life experiences of each person is always vastly different from one another, such that it isn't really realistic to refer to ourselves with such rigidly defined terms as "straight", "gay", "bi", and what have you. Sexuality, romantic interest, and everything in between all operate as more of a sliding scale, rather than an on/off switch; not only that, they are also highly prone to shifting around, especially when we're still developing and looking inwards to try and put our feelings to terms. The way I generally like to go about describing it is as more of a ratio (M-F): things like 20-80, 40-60, 50-50, 1-99, 10-20, etc; I feel this does a better job of describing how I feel, as opposed to the more rigid terms. If you're not comfortable with something like that, it's also fine referring to yourself in ways like "bi but with a preference", "mostly straight", "prefer women but leaning asexual", etc. Exact labels generally just don't matter, since the way we feel can never be as exact.

When it comes to trauma, I can empathize with how you feel. I can only really offer my experiences on it since I don't really know what happened in your case nor how much it still impacts you up to now (not that that's something that can easily be put to terms anyhow), so take from it what you will. In my experience, I immediately turned towards being more of a lesbian since I was physically and mentally uncomfortable with the opposite gender for several years after being sexually assaulted. It wasn't until my brain developed to a point where I could be more self aware of how I came off to people around me before I could properly begin taking the steps to bring my feelings from my subconscious to the conscious to process them and reach some form of self-assured closure to what had happened and allow myself to dissociate all other men from one jerk who acted on impulse. Having roughly a year or so of isolation from non-family irl interactions in the period of time between finishing high school and starting college also very much helped so I could take things at my own pace and focus solely on developing myself. At this point, I can proudly say that I've made it past the 10 year anniversary without feeling bogged down by what happened!

Even though that trauma was a major push towards me being more of a lesbian for a long time, it's not like I wasn't already exhibiting gay traits long before what happened, having spent a majority of my childhood enveloped in the masculine culture of male-dominated elementary and middle schools. Odds are that even if I hadn't been assaulted I'd have still ended being gay, or at least some form of bisexual. It really just goes to show that the scars of trauma can only ever be a small part of the person who bears them, no matter how deep or painful the wound that caused them might have been. With that in mind, I'd say it's definitely worthwhile to take the time to process your feelings so that you can possibly come to a conclusion about what your values in a relationship are, regardless of the terminology you'd use to describe it. The odds of settling with one set of identity labels forever with no changes are astronomically low, so I wouldn't worry about getting too caught up on the details; with enough experimentation and open-minded consideration, anything is possible!
This probably became more of a stream of consciousness type post with how late it is, but I hope it helps!
 
I'm really deeply sorry to read that these things happened to anyone and I hope you're healing. I just have to say that I do not agree with any suggestion that trauma and abuse change or influence your sexuality. I may have clashed with rosa a bit in past pages, but this is not really about that, and I would like to foreclose that reading of this post as much as possible. I just want to say for all the young folks questioning their sexuality: you are a lesbian even if you feel perfectly comfortable 'around' men, and you can be all manners of identities irrespective of your comfort levels around men. You can hate men and still be bisexual or straight or w.e, even while being a man yourself. While it is true that an individual's sexual identities are likely to change over time, it is also unfair to attribute anyone's sexuality to a traumatic experience, as though if that experience had not occured you would be straight. This is a typical conservative narrative of sexuality, which locates being gay as the pathological consequence of trauma, some type of flaw masking a person's innate heterosexuality.
 
Myzozoa said:
I'm really deeply sorry to read that these things happened to anyone and I hope you're healing. I just have to say that I do not agree with any suggestion that trauma and abuse change or influence your sexuality. I may have clashed with rosa a bit in past pages, but this is not really about that, and I would like to foreclose that reading of this post as much as possible. I just want to say for all the young folks questioning their sexuality: you are a lesbian even if you feel perfectly comfortable 'around' men, and you can be all manners of identities irrespective of your comfort levels around men. You can hate men and still be bisexual or straight or w.e, even while being a man yourself. While it is true that an individual's sexual identities are likely to change over time, it is also unfair to attribute anyone's sexuality to a traumatic experience, as though if that experience had not occured you would be straight. This is a typical conservative narrative of sexuality, which locates being gay as the pathological consequence of trauma, some type of flaw masking a person's innate heterosexuality.
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I'm not entirely sure if this was directed at me, but I value this perspective. I've struggled with my situation for years, and opening it up to more thoughts and viewpoints will be helpful for figuring myself out. I defaulted to my trauma being a contributing factor, but as you're implying, I could be too reductionist in thinking. Never did I want to imply that what became of me is any kind of flaw, but in hindsight, I think that's actually where I'm failing the most, like I did a few years ago with everything else. Hell, even writing that sentence, you can probably see that problematic thinking.

Thank you. I'll have a long think about this.
 
Myzozoa said:
I'm really deeply sorry to read that these things happened to anyone and I hope you're healing. I just have to say that I do not agree with any suggestion that trauma and abuse change or influence your sexuality. I may have clashed with rosa a bit in past pages, but this is not really about that, and I would like to foreclose that reading of this post as much as possible. I just want to say for all the young folks questioning their sexuality: you are a lesbian even if you feel perfectly comfortable 'around' men, and you can be all manners of identities irrespective of your comfort levels around men. You can hate men and still be bisexual or straight or w.e, even while being a man yourself. While it is true that an individual's sexual identities are likely to change over time, it is also unfair to attribute anyone's sexuality to a traumatic experience, as though if that experience had not occured you would be straight. This is a typical conservative narrative of sexuality, which locates being gay as the pathological consequence of trauma, some type of flaw masking a person's innate heterosexuality.
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I don't really think that karma was trying to say that abuse resulted in a change of sexuality. What I got from the post was more along the lines of karma being unsure whether responses and emotions experienced while experiencing things that should be arousing to bisexual people, or lack thereof, were because of actually being asexual or because the trauma was overriding what should normally be felt. You know, like when people can't get in a sexual mood because their mind is weighted down by feeling bad or remembering bad memories, but in this case it's the thing that's supposed to be arousing bringing bad memories. What seems to be the basis of the post is asking a question: are my reactions the reactions of an asexual person, or a defensive mechanism?

Also karma, I would really like to tell you to try to talk to a professional about this, or since you said you already did, to try to find others until you can find one that works for you. Everybody here wants to help you, as well as give advice and insight, but the vast majority of us users on a public forum are still not educated/experienced/knowledgeable/acquainted with your personal situation enough to give you surefire advice about such difficult topics. I would also like to wish you luck in figuring it all out, and wish you all the best when you do :blobuwu:
 
glava222 said:
I don't really think that karma was trying to say that abuse resulted in a change of sexuality. What I got from the post was more along the lines of karma being unsure whether responses and emotions experienced while experiencing things that should be arousing to bisexual people, or lack thereof, were because of actually being asexual or because the trauma was overriding what should normally be felt. You know, like when people can't get in a sexual mood because their mind is weighted down by feeling bad or remembering bad memories, but in this case it's the thing that's supposed to be arousing bringing bad memories. What seems to be the basis of the post is asking a question: are my reactions the reactions of an asexual person, or a defensive mechanism?

Also karma, I would really like to tell you to try to talk to a professional about this, or since you said you already did, to try to find others until you can find one that works for you. Everybody here wants to help you, as well as give advice and insight, but the vast majority of us users on a public forum are still not educated/experienced/knowledgeable/acquainted with your personal situation enough to give you surefire advice about such difficult topics. I would also like to wish you luck in figuring it all out, and wish you all the best when you do :blobuwu:
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I understand the sentiment and thank you for it, but this isn't what I was saying...I said already that I have made massive leaps in getting over my trauma on my own, which included seeing other professionals. COVID-19 made it difficult, but I'm getting by. I still get traumatic flashbacks from time to time; those will never go away on the basis that I cannot reverse what happened to me.

What I was saying is that I am not sure if my lack of sexual attraction is actually rooted in what happened to me. Myzozoa gave a sound response in that I may be thinking too reductionist when relating it to my trauma, and I believe that thinking without my trauma in mind will help me figure out if this is the case.
 
Plague von Karma said:
I understand the sentiment and thank you for it, but this isn't what I was saying...I said already that I have made massive leaps in getting over my trauma on my own, which included seeing other professionals. COVID-19 made it difficult, but I'm getting by. I still get traumatic flashbacks from time to time; those will never go away on the basis that I cannot reverse what happened to me.

What I was saying is that I am not sure if my lack of sexual attraction is actually rooted in what happened to me. Myzozoa gave a sound response in that I may be thinking too reductionist when relating it to my trauma, and I believe that thinking without my trauma in mind will help me figure out if this is the case.
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Oh sorry, I did mean that maybe it would be wise to talk to a professional about the lack of sexual attraction, since they probably have experience talking about such things, and it might help to talk about such topics to people who have seen other people who are also were in a similar situation. It doesn't really have to be a long process, you can just go for a couple of sessions to bounce some ideas of off someone who is anonymous, educated on the topic, experienced and willing to give you the atmosphere to air your toughts on the subject and offer additional insight for some more introspection. Something like help for reaching the conclusion you would have probably reached by yourself, but easing the process along.
 
Preface: this post isn't a reply to the conversation above: this is just a topic that has been lingering on my mind for a while and now seems like an apt time to bring it up.

The implication that human experiences cannot influence sexuality seems reductive. I'm sure we've all heard and, at one point, used the 'born this way' mantra in effort for equality; it acts as damage control to conservatives, as if something is innate to a human, it is immoral to attack them for it. But as our understanding of sexuality advances, it's not a stretch to say that this ideology is harmful to LGBTQ individuals. Now obviously, I don't want people interpreting this as sexuality being a willful choice we pick and choose, like clothes and such, but rather a malleable facet of human identity that can gradually alter over time. Psychologists and cognitive scientists have articulated this better than I can, but it's not unreasonable to say that important or traumatic events in one's life can, subconsciously, shape our sexual preferences. And this shouldn't be viewed as harmful to LGBTQ identities. Predictably, bigots will misconstrue this as sexuality being a choice or just as something to fit into their regressive narrative.

As for asexuality, it isn't a subject I can speak on anecdotally or even through readings/research. Naturally, talking about trauma and the influence it holds over sexuality is a slippery slope: on one hand, to make a blanket statement that negative experiences determine you as a person--sexuality or not--is not productive or insightful to anyone; on the other hand, it is not necessary for LGBTQ individuals to justify their sexuality through excessively making a point of how it is innate to them, and how the person's experiences are irrelevant to it, despite this claim not being wholly accurate. Dr. Lisa Diamond makes three succinct points on why 'born this way' isn't actually useful for us:
1. 'It is not scientifically accurate'
2. 'It is not legally necessary'
3. (most important point): 'It is actually unjust'
The third point resonates most pertinently to this discussion and to the queer community as a whole. A lot of gender-non-conforming and/or queer individuals offer stories from when they were a child about how they used to dress up as the opposite gender and use that as a tool to 'normalise' or act as damage control to how weird it is to be queer. I used to do this too, but eventually just stopped; you do not need to justify your identity to cisheterosexual people. Also, the desperation to fit into a fixed label of sexuality is too a product of heteronormativity. It's not unusual or abnormal for same-sex attracted people to develop opposite-sex attraction later in life, and this doesn't make them confused or 'traitors', likewise with heterosexuals developing an attraction to other genders doesn't make them an ashamed closeted person.
 
I agree that "Born this way" could be phazed out even if it can be useful to explain at a very basic level how there isn't a choice in one sexuality as genetic code and life experiences are out of anyone control but how "it is actually unjust"?
 
Blue glass said:
I agree that "Born this way" could be phazed out even if it can be useful to explain at a very basic level how there isn't a choice in one sexuality as genetic code and life experiences are out of anyone control but how "it is actually unjust"?
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this is the video referenced in the post, unjust tldr iirc refers to how it justifies bierasure and sets a binary you are one thing and nothing else from the moment you're born when it isn't true because sexuality is fluid.
 
re: early morning thoughts
I've been an openly bisexual female for a while now, I've been very open with my friends about it and they support me all the way, but I don't how to explain it to my parents. Does anyone have advice, I feel like my story isn't as severe as some of the stories I've been reading in this thread.
 
syzgy said:
re: early morning thoughts
I've been an openly bisexual female for a while now, I've been very open with my friends about it and they support me all the way, but I don't how to explain it to my parents. Does anyone have advice, I feel like my story isn't as severe as some of the stories I've been reading in this thread.
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I feel like everyone has their own way of coming out, whether it be through a long and detailed speech, a simple joke made, or introducing your partner, so it all depends on your character, your nature, and how you think your family will react to you openly admitting you’re bisexual. I can only speak for my experience, which, just like yours, isn’t as severe as the others, but it’s still worth reading here. By the time I was ready to tell my friends, I was slowly realizing I didn’t have any problems with my family knowing about my homosexuality as well. This also happened because I already did know that they would’ve supported me. All I can say is: be as natural as possible, preparing a speech didn’t work for me, I wanted to be as relaxed as possible because otherwise I would’ve gotten into my head and ruined the moment. At the same time, I didn’t want it to be such a “solemn” moment, after all there’s nothing more natural and liberating than to come out, so I didn’t want to make it too dramatic when in reality it wasn’t at all! I can’t specifically tell you how you should tell your parents, only you know how to approach and have a serious conversation with them, but the best advice I can give you is to just stop listening to that little voice in your head and just let your heart speak for a moment. I hope this helped a bit, I hope that your parents will support you 100%, and I sincerely wish you all the luck in the world! Please, keep us posted on this!
 
syzgy said:
re: early morning thoughts
I've been an openly bisexual female for a while now, I've been very open with my friends about it and they support me all the way, but I don't how to explain it to my parents. Does anyone have advice, I feel like my story isn't as severe as some of the stories I've been reading in this thread.
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Don't worry about how bad your experiences are! Weighing them out against others can be really unhealthy for you in the long-run, so it's always more productive to get your problems solved in some way.

Anyway...it really depends on how your parents are towards LGBT people. Everyone is different, and parents are no exception. Oftentimes, you'll get the "purest" reaction from a parent when they find out the person they've been raising is LGBT. This is partly why many become afraid, but I see it as a necessary experience to go through. It's one of those "it'll happen sooner or later" things, it's like pulling off a plaster.

The way I went about it was sitting my mom down and just letting it out. I don't think this is the ideal way for most, especially considering I personally tend to just...do things once the idea is in my head. At the end of the day, "coming out" is a deeply personal thing for everyone. Ergo, there's no "true" way to do it, as every method is true in its own right. As Milank put it, it can be anything from a wise crack to a speech.

One way I can think of is just some kind of offhanded comment like "oh don't you think this girl's hot?" while watching TV. It's enough to get the idea across without really prompting any inherently negative response. Hell, maybe it'll get them to ask the question. But, as I prefaced, everyone's different, and I most certainly don't know your parents. Go with your gut! You've been raised by them for years, it's best to make it "your" coming out experience.
 
I guess I should make an official public update rather than just keeping it to the few people I told on discord / saw my status. I been trying to figure out my gender identity for the longest time, I knew female didn't fit which was the gender I was born with, and that male was what I thought was the perfect fit. While I am comfortable with he/him, I feel like they/them non-binary is what I truly am. I feel more so as a gray line between female and male and see myself as neither gender. My sexuality is still strongly females, but open to males and non-binary people. I still feel like in the future I will be getting my breasts removed and still change my name to Zero.

So in short he/him is fine but I prefer they/them.
 
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